ATS does it again, jumps to conclusions and breaks a leg doing so.

a reply to: Not Authorized

Dear Not Authorized,

I would much prefer that we don't look at blaming one side over the other. It doesn't seem useful to me.

OK, let's look at racism. Two quick comments.

1.) About 40 years ago I was part of a college exhibition drill team. Our team was attacked by a crowd of student protesters and I was knocked to the floor. I was kicked for a while, then pulled out of the pile by a Black teammate who must have been 9' 2" and weighed 680 pounds.

2.) I've never thought of Jews and Arabs being a separate race. In my profound ignorance, I've considered them pretty much the same except for religious practices.


I like the pictures at your link as well, that's a great possibility developing. It's probably a cultural thing, but I think guys with long ringlets look a little strange, but not good or bad.

Do you think people should die for their skin tone? I do not. It's insanity.

White=Black=Brown=Yellow=Red=Equal

I don't have any problem with that. I don't think I've ever made a comment relying on race in my Israel - Gaza posts.

Now, I mean this as respectfully as possible. Can you honestly answer this question to yourself. Are you racist?

I honestly believe I am not racist.

If you are not, how do you not understand both sides ARE the same fundamentally? They are people. You have moved them into an inferior set of beings in your mentality, unworthy of attention.

This confuses and concerns me. You seem to be accusing me of racism, but I must be misunderstanding you for I have given you no reason to think that.

It's the extremists that are the problem. Not the innocent people.

Fine, shall we talk about how to deal with extremists?

What would you do if the shoe was on the other foot?

I'm not sure what you mean, but if I were a Palestinian, I would quickly notice that my government was attacking a tank with water balloons. I'd find the nearest Israeli, walk up to him with a huge white flag and ask him to get me to any other country.

With respect,
Charles1952

a reply to: g146541

FYI, many Palestinians can speak Hebrew. I heard the audio, and for anyone familiar with authentic Hebrew, it was obvious that the person speaking had an Arabic accent.

a reply to: charles1952

Perfectly reasonable. Next question, what about fog of war? Refresh your memory. Take a moment to read it on Wikipedia.

Any room room that some of those are planted stories? Do we have bias in our media?

a reply to: Not Authorized

Dear Not Authorized,

Usually "Fog of War" refers to the confusion faced by those fighting it. But, certainly, we don't have the complete truth about anything.

Planted stories? Bias? Possible I suppose. I don't know how much of that is compensated for by other reports and sources, or which way the bias runs. Also some sources are more generally reliable than others.

But, Not Authorized, may I ask where we're going with this? Or will it all be made clear in due time?

With respect,
Charles1952

a reply to: hoth12

Also, even if some madman murdered three Israelis, which is tragic and should be dealt with, should 1800 Palestinians should die for that?
Collective punishment?

a reply to: Willtell

Where did you get the idea that both sides in a conflict need to lose similar numbers of civilians to make it fair? It certainly wasn't the case in World War I, II, Vietnam, Russia's conquest of Crimea (No Russian civilians died), Iraq, Afghanistan, and I don't know how many more.

Where did this idea come from? Who introduced it. Hamas' PR office? American Anti-Semites?

By the way, you don't think that all of the Palestinians died because of the "madman?" It could have stopped at any of the cease fires.

originally posted by: Humanity4Ever
a reply to: g146541

FYI, many Palestinians can speak Hebrew. I heard the audio, and for anyone familiar with authentic Hebrew, it was obvious that the person speaking had an Arabic accent.

Maybe so, but I wonder about this "suspect" in particular.
Did you know, I can speak with several accents!
I can even speak like a deaf person, it even tops it when I sign along!

a reply to: hoth12

They arrested hundreds of guys. This guy didn't admit he did it, but gave info. Not saying they didn't do it (hamas), but after hundreds of arrests, would it be hard to get one guy to talk for a lighter sentence?

I doubt we will ever know who actually did it, but either way, I doubt it was someone who came through tunnels and I know it doesn't justify killing 400 Palestinian kids.

They are all corrupt, but the Palestinians really suffer for both sides.

originally posted by: Humanity4Ever
a reply to: g146541

FYI, many Palestinians can speak Hebrew. I heard the audio, and for anyone familiar with authentic Hebrew, it was obvious that the person speaking had an Arabic accent.

Actually it wasn't. That was obvious to Israelis (that there was no real Arabic accent) which is why when they played the tape they denoted "possible slight arabic accent" on the tape. I mean, for Israel to make that clear and not just say "Arabic accent" was pretty strange. They were speaking Hebrew and listening to Israeli radio. Everything in Israel is written in both languages for a reason.

I found this interesting:

sultanknish.blogspot.com...

originally posted by: stirling
Why not stop spewing your own version of hate........The IDF and Hamas have both committed war crimes.....
They care not one whit for either sides civilians...in fact seem to relish killing each other off whomever they find to kill.....kids adults old people , its all the same to them...its just a numbers game for the press.....a giant suck on the worlds sympathy tit.....
They can all go to hell in a handbasket for all I care...Time for the people to rise up and fling off the yoke of hatred on their own ........
Over 2000 dead and many more maimed....for three deaths.......an entire city of 1,8 million people without water, electricity, or basic medical treatment.....many Tens of thousands homeless,for three dead Israelis....
Sounds likew NAZI repression tactics to me....you kill one....we kill 100

ISIS is pushing 40,000 women and children into the mountainside to die in the Kurdish region as they advance. They will most likely kill them if they can get to them, so why has the Israel/Gaza event struck such a nerve in you to post where this event happening right now doesn't deserve a single word too?

Did not Ron Paul state Hamas is to Israel as Al-Qaeda is to the CIA. Owe never mind that was last weeks news and should be forgotten. On a side note however; interesting how easy it is to kill what 2000 people over one individual statement, whom I presume was interrogated first! Think I have seen that before throughout our history. Say; Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin, etc.

"However with a spin; Gods chosen people"

Cant wait to see what happens and how many people start dying when the Devil comes out and needs his war-sheesh

a reply to: Xtrozero


Your right about the horrific events in Iraq. You gotta wonder what will happen to Jews in Israel when these bastards reach there as they will eventually do. I suspect the ISIS members are driven to a great degree by a vow to avenge previous attrocities committed by USA in Fallujah and other Islamic centres. People don't forget and they want revenge. America has been warned umpteen times about the problem they have created. And just like in Palestine, the Israelis armed by the Americans will eventually reap what they are sowing. I'm afraid that Netanyahoo has gotten the Israelis into such a fever pitch they are prepared to do anything to isolate themselves. But the Jews in Palestine will pay a massive price for the folly. It would be so much better if they put the same effort into integration instead of separation.

www.abovetopsecret.com... reply to: Xtrozero
I started a topic on this situation, hardly no replies, and shocked by some, although, I should know to expect it by now.

a reply to: hoth12

Yes, looks like it. That's what's wanted. An end to dialogue.

ATS = baby twitter wannabe.

originally posted by: bigyin
a reply to: Xtrozero


Your right about the horrific events in Iraq. You gotta wonder what will happen to Jews in Israel when these bastards reach there as they will eventually do. I suspect the ISIS members are driven to a great degree by a vow to avenge previous attrocities committed by USA in Fallujah and other Islamic centres. People don't forget and they want revenge. America has been warned umpteen times about the problem they have created. And just like in Palestine, the Israelis armed by the Americans will eventually reap what they are sowing. I'm afraid that Netanyahoo has gotten the Israelis into such a fever pitch they are prepared to do anything to isolate themselves. But the Jews in Palestine will pay a massive price for the folly. It would be so much better if they put the same effort into integration instead of separation.

The Toyota army with no air force is a threat to Israel? That is an easy win for Israel.
Isis won't get past beating Iran's Hezbollah. It is destined to be just another thorn in everybody's sides for the region.

If the oil flow from the region ever gets disrupted, then you would see not only the West, but the East effected economies come together in a massive coalition to exterminate the so called Caliphate. Iran doesn't even dare disrupt the oil flow for all the mayem and bloodshed they cause arming Hamas and deploying Hezbollah to the region.
Isis is in direct conflict with Iran, an oil partner to China and Isis is a direct threat to Saudi Arabia, EU and US oil partner. Isis will never get their black map.

Your commentary of Isis avenging US victories in Iraq is very selective because you leave out Iran's Shia military push into Iraq. The Al Sadr army and shia political forces oppressed all the Saddam loyalists more severely than the US. It is these supporters that are being beheaded on a daily basis.

a reply to: g146541

Easy there, these were also people's children. And yes, Hamas had a dirty hand in this as well, make no mistake. But the vitriole for Israel that you are spewing is quite telling. How are the three teenagers bullies??? Most teenagers are smartasses, I'll grant you, but that doesn't mean these kids were bullies... Is there some magic bag that you are pulling all of this information out of??? I mean really... Furthermore, that is NOT a Concentration Camp wall, that was erected because many innocent citizens in Israel were getting blown up on buses... Yes, Israel, A SOVEREIGN NATION that has a RIGHT to defend itself retaliated. I hate that young children have been killed and injured. This was NOT their fight. I'm speaking about the Palestinian children. But neither was the inital kidnapping the "FAULT" of three hapless teenagers who were tricked by a Hebrew-speaking Muslim, into coming with him. Who knows what he promised... I wasn't there. You SURELY were not there... Then the rockets began to rain down on Israel, and she has to DEFEND herself against an unholy onslaught of missiles.. I hate that there is always such a disparate number killed on the other side of that wall. 3 dead Israeli youths a non-issue, huh? WOW! I think you just blew the TOP off of your "EVILOMETER" with that one... I have lived in Israel, and there is ALWAYS a threat brewing all around them, in a cauldron of brewing hatred. And most of what I read here is more of the same. What a shame. I'm glad it is the Last Days, and Messiah is near to coming... For the moral thermometer is broken for this lost and dying world. For TRULY the love of many has waxed cold. And this whole world is about to be plunged into UTTER DARKNESS through the soon coming Great Tribulation, and people are so blithely unaware, and oh so smug in their hateful view of the world... Lord have mercy on your souls...

originally posted by: charles1952

Since we're not able to have an honest discussion now, what do we have to lose if management steps in and shuts the discussion off for awhile. If they don't want to close it off for very long, they can just do it until the next Hamas rocket salvo.

We've discussed a cease fire on the boards to coincide with the cease fire in gaza. Only problem is that the members here have less constraint than the folks firing those missiles.

a reply to: charles1952

Dear Charles,

Thank you my friend, for being reasonable and respectable. I apologize for not replying last night, but I was exhausted and needed sleep.

I will not be able to focus on this thread today, but I am giving you food for thought. A nugget, that you can actually use forever. Again, I agree fully with what you have written above. I think there is a great deal of hope starting to shine.

Now, the reason I was asking questions, was because I admittedly tricked you. I got you agree to a possibility that something may not be true. In order of fairness, this is the start of building what is called reasonable doubt in your mind. I can continue asking questions like that, all day long. Each, compounding and increasing from the last one. So, when we see reasonable doubt, we can not be hasty to rush to judgment. We need to form a valid opinion, using proven methodologies like critical thinking. We also need to avoid being biased as well.

Every word written has meaning. My links within my text, are to teach you how I think. I double check everything, because I am tired of being lied to. I stand under the authority of those words, not what I used to think they are. Now, to thinking about racism? What is racism?

Again, I am speaking to you as a person. Fully respected. I value your opinion. You are person, just like me. Remember, I said "unknowingly". Does it fit?

Racism is the belief that all members of each race possesses characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

Now, this definition gives me pause. Do you see this happening in this situation? Whenever I see "We are the Chosen People", is that a form of racism? Does the bill fit? There is additional words inside Racism, that also can be linked and further dived into.

If my wife was Arab, how would she be treated? She is me. We are one.

Now, that also gives me pause to what you said as well, as in your post above, you implied something, by claiming you do not "see how they are the same." Do you see the impression that you may be leaving with others? If you agree with it, is that a form or racism? By the textbook? Yes, it would be.

Hence, the need for a racial animus. An motivated discussion on race (definition #2 of animus)

We are all Homo sapiens with rights. Including the Palestinians, even if we do not agree some aspects of their culture, they are still people. We can disagree with that culture, and try to show a better way, but we have no right to force that. None. They need to learn it for themselves.

There are many moderates, not extremists, who are very forward thinking. Research some of the projects going on in Muslim countries. I was shocked at some of the environmental care being considered for an alleged backwards people.

Now, I want you to ask more questions to yourself, using what I have outlined above. Read the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. Ask yourself in each article, why does this not apply to the Palestinian people? Is it because of racism from a small segment of Israel's government? What does everyone mean?

Are Palestinian Rights being protected? If not, why does that document not apply to "them"?. Was Israel supposed to honor Palestinian cultural and legal rights? What happened? What happened to equal protection? Is this not one of our values? For me? Yes. It is.

I think Hillary, although I detest her politics, was on to something. The United States people needs a "reset". Particularly in our relationship with the world. We need to be more mindful of making choices before we are fully informed with the truth. We need to remember that regardless of how crappy our nation is running, we are still a beacon of hope for those oppressed. We need to move into a Humanitarian mindset, forward thinking, and return to being a shining light of hope for the world. But, we need to confront our sins first, and we have many. Me you everyone. No one is perfect. But that does not mean we cannot strive towards it.

My advice is to go neutral about this entire situation. If you are going to side with anyone, side with those people in the previous link only. The ones who are the same, and refuse to be each others enemy.

Children are not born to hate, they are taught to do so by our actions. What are we teaching them, today?

2010 had a quote that is powerful. "Just because our governments are behaving like asses, does not mean we to".

With love and respect,

Someone who cares.

originally posted by: stirling
Why not stop spewing your own version of hate........The IDF and Hamas have both committed war crimes.....
They care not one whit for either sides civilians...in fact seem to relish killing each other off whomever they find to kill.....kids adults old people , its all the same to them...its just a numbers game for the press.....a giant suck on the worlds sympathy tit.....
They can all go to hell in a handbasket for all I care...Time for the people to rise up and fling off the yoke of hatred on their own ........
Over 2000 dead and many more maimed....for three deaths.......an entire city of 1,8 million people without water, electricity, or basic medical treatment.....many Tens of thousands homeless,for three dead Israelis....
Sounds likew NAZI repression tactics to me....you kill one....we kill 100

How about the hundreds of people killed over the publication of a cartoon depicting some prophet who died thousands of years ago?

When you show me the world wide riots where people are killed when a cartoon makes fun of Jews or Christians, get back to me