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Rand Paul skitters away like a cockroach when confronted by two DREAM act activists.

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posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 04:22 PM
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To quote Thomas Jefferson:

"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."



I agree with Thomas Jefferson.

I am not saying the laws are unjust. They have the law so every tom, dick & harry can't walk into this country.
If you want in there is a LEGAL way to do it. But hey, why do things the right way?




posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 04:26 PM
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originally posted by: LeatherNLace
a reply to: macman








So, let me get this straight.....The issue is in fact legality and this little thing of committing a crime by coming here in the manner that they did. So, you propose rewarding illegal criminals with legal status.





That's quite the stretch, calling DREAMERS criminals. These people were brought here as kids; by no choice of their own. They were educated in our public schools and universities and have gone on to be productive members of society. This is their home; it is the only place many of them can ever remember living. Many of them only speak one language, English. These people are hardly criminal.


If it was only children that were already here since infancy that the government wants to give amnesty, then that 'might' be a topic for compromise. The current agenda is to make all illegal immigrants legal - that includes the invasion of MS-13 and drug cartel members, and the middle easterners that have slipped in thru the suothern border.

We're not talking about just innocent children brought here by parents. They are only a portion of the problem, and the poster child and smokescreen for the administration to bash all the opponents of 'helping the kids'.

The OP only sees what Obama tells the OP. I'm thankful that there are some here that do not wear the blinders of the progressive left.



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 04:27 PM
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i would've called ICE.
and told her to keep on dreamin.



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 04:35 PM
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originally posted by: macman
a reply to: theantediluvian

The Anchor baby provides the parents with the ability to apply for food stamps.

They are still in the schools, sucking resources away from US citizens.
They are still sucking tax money to ICE to stop them.
Job growth in several cities are all due to illegals taking said jobs.

They still go to hospitals, receive medical care and skip out on the bill.

Shall I go on???

Besides the fact they are here ILLEGALLY...what is your defense of such things?


1. Children born on American soil are... American citizens. You're very concerned with being legal, so I'm sure you're aware of the 14th amendment.

2. Only 4,000 individuals a year are granted any sort of protection from deportation based on having a child born here. To be eligible, the illegal immigrant has to have been here for 10 years. These children also cannot sponsor their parents.

3. The parents do not become eligible for any of the programs I mentioned because they have a child born in the US with the exception of SNAP for the child, not themselves, WIC again for the child who is an American citizen, not themselves, and certain prenatal care.

4. Job growth is due to illegal immigrants taking jobs? Please explain how you're arriving at this conclusion. I doubt it's from estimates from the BLS.

5. CIS, the worst of the network of anti-immigration propaganda machines, calculated the cost of medical treatment for illegal immigrants to be:


We estimate the current cost of treating uninsured illegal immigrants at all levels of government to be $4.3 billion a year, primarily at emergency rooms and free clinics.


That was in 2009, right at the peak of the illegal immigrant population.

6. Out of the federal budget, less than 1% goes toward education. The single biggest source of funding for education is property taxes. If an illegal immigrant is paying rent, then their landlord is (or should be) paying property taxes.

edit on 2014-8-6 by theantediluvian because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 04:37 PM
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originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
i would've called ICE.

and told her to keep on dreamin.


That used to work, before Obama and Holder took the reins.
Now, might as well write them a check, as ICE will no doubt place them on the tax dole and you will write that check anyway. Or...another three-letter agency (IRS, DOJ, name one) will be coming for YOU.

If only the next election turns the tables, then maybe...our dreams of restoring our economy and removing those that are stealing from our government and local tax base can come to fruition.



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 04:45 PM
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originally posted by: theantediluvian




4. Job growth is due to illegal immigrants taking jobs? Please explain how you're arriving at this conclusion. I doubt it's from estimates from the BLS.




It's not. It is from estimates from the CIS (your own source)....

cis.org...

Try again, maybe the BLS has figures that are not so bad as YOUR source.



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 04:49 PM
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a reply to: squittles




That's what I hate about the "news" in this country - if 99 out of a hundred were MS-13 members, you can be sure there are organizations that would find the "1" that went to Harvard Law to make the poster-child to represent *all*


So how many of them are MS-13 members? The gang has an estimated size of 50,000 members WORLDWIDE. If every single one of them was in the US and every single one of them was an illegal immigrant, that would be 1 out of 230 illegal immigrants.

This is just a new twist on the same sort of xenophobic rhetoric that was used to disparage immigrant groups like the Italians.



Of course with them, it was that they were all in the mafia. When it was the Irish, it was all that they were deadbeat criminals who apparently had a fondness for terrorism, voter fraud, killing landlords and begging:




posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 05:01 PM
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originally posted by: lakesidepark

originally posted by: theantediluvian




4. Job growth is due to illegal immigrants taking jobs? Please explain how you're arriving at this conclusion. I doubt it's from estimates from the BLS.




It's not. It is from estimates from the CIS (your own source)....

cis.org...

Try again, maybe the BLS has figures that are not so bad as YOUR source.


My source? LOL.

1. Did you ask macman if that was how he substantiated his claim?

2. I presented the CIS estimates on medical costs because CIS is the biggest exaggerator, so yah...you won't find much higher estimates than those coming from the jewel in eugenicist John Tanton's network.

3. Maybe you should actually read that article? They're including ALL immigrants in their crackpot estimates.

It doesn't surprise me that macman (and now you) would be retelling this myth, the CIS report was first pushed out in 2011 and again this year and it's been repeated on brietbart, American thinker, cnsnews, etc etc. This is why a lot of people believe this crap, CIS or FAIR (another John Tanton group) or another xenophobic propaganda machine pumps these half-assed "reports" out and the right-wing echo chamber blasts them to the drones.

edit on 2014-8-6 by theantediluvian because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 05:03 PM
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I am so sick of this bias towards the illegalsfrom south of the border. Cry and cry about how they should be given legal status. That friends is discrimination! What about the people who want to come here from other countries and don't have the resources to get here? Is it just because someone walks over the border they should be given citizenship? I have known two families that went through the hoops and is it okay that they had to spend the money they did to get here, while the border jumpers get a free pass??? So sick of the "think of the poor children" mantra. We are no longer a nation of law, we are a nation of emotionally manipulated fools. All too willing to let politicians play their games once they invoke the "children". Where else have I heard them wheel out that same line oh yea gun control. Rand Paul was not obligated to speak with this woman as she represented a non-important aspect of politics I.E. a non-voter. Doesn't matter how she feels about any issues until she is a citizen she does not count. No vote equals no right to imput her agenda. Dealing with the influx of people here illegally is still a issue for those who are actual citizens and until this country gets it's house in order we can not afford the added strain to our resources. It may sound cruel but reality seldom is nice.



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 05:05 PM
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a reply to: hangedman13


We are no longer a nation of law, we are a nation of emotionally manipulated fools.


We've always been this way and it true of people both sides of every issue.

You want to talk about emotion? Look at this thread. People make random unsubstantiated statements and get a dozen stars regardless of the accuracy or the information content — purely for towing the right-wing line.
edit on 2014-8-6 by theantediluvian because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 05:08 PM
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originally posted by: theantediluvian

So how many of them are MS-13 members? The gang has an estimated size of 50,000 members WORLDWIDE. If every single one of them was in the US and every single one of them was an illegal immigrant, that would be 1 out of 230 illegal immigrants.


And with the millions that are here and the thousands still pouring in...I begin to wonder if a significant percentage of the populations of Central America isn't already here???

Since you don't know how many of them are here (or how many drug cartel members, common criminals, and middle easterners knowing enough Spanish to pass as Hispanic), why don't you suggest that all of them get screened when entering the country??? Oh NO, that would be LEGAL entry!

We just CAN"T obey the law! That would just be bigoted and racist! Obama said so!



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 05:27 PM
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originally posted by: LeatherNLace
a reply to: macman




So, let me get this straight.....The issue is in fact legality and this little thing of committing a crime by coming here in the manner that they did. So, you propose rewarding illegal criminals with legal status.


That's quite the stretch, calling DREAMERS criminals. These people were brought here as kids; by no choice of their own. They were educated in our public schools and universities and have gone on to be productive members of society. This is their home; it is the only place many of them can ever remember living. Many of them only speak one language, English. These people are hardly criminal.


Yes, that's right. They were only following orders.


It doesn't matter. They don't belong here. They didn't follow the laws that would allow them to belong here. They care so little for here that they ignored those laws.



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 05:43 PM
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I got an email from a former student of mine recently. She's a Canadian, been living legally in the US with her parents since she was 5 years old. Her parents came here because her Dad was offered a good job and took the opportunity. They have always followed the law but since her Dad retired last year, his visa has been revoked and the entire family is facing deportation despite their efforts to follow the law and become US citizens. My student is in her last year of graduate school but has been informed that she won't be able to complete her studies in the US.
This young lady and her family have worked their entire lives, never taken a dime from the taxpayers of the US and yet they now face having to go back to Canada and begin life over???? And who would blame her for being upset that all she needs do is get into Mexico and then sneak across the southern border to be welcomed into the disease filled waiting rooms? Something is truly rotten to the core in the enforcement arm of our government.



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 06:47 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

Yeah, your source. Don't use it to support YOUR point if you didn't intend it to be taken seriously.

Frankly, a lot of yap and emotion, and ignoring the facts, doesn't go far in my book.
Time to quit arguing semantics and trying to fight with figures, lies and statistics are all one in the same when used by some.
So let's stick with the law, why don't we? (oh I forgot, our laws are nothing but toilet paper to some).

There are millions that make it here legally, from all over the world, and they pay the price to be residents and citizens. I agree with hangedman, why do we DISCRIMINATE against the legal immigrants while granting favors to those that break our laws to get here?

Why??? Because they can't walk across? Racist and bigoted I tell you!

I work with many legal immigrants, from south of the border and from around the world. I hear the tales they tell about the difficulties and the expense they go thru to satisfy the requirements for residency and citizenship, and the YEARS it takes them to do so, and I applaud them for doing so.

So, one month on the death train, and the illegals are entitled to our mercy??? Tell that to the people that spend years getting the rights some of you are wanting to give the illegals.

The citizens of this country that support this illegal invasion are doing a disservice to those that obey the law and work hard to do it right. Discrimination I say, pure and simple, hidden behind progressivism and compassion. The supporters of this love to call us racist and bigoted - that is another way to hide their own animosity toward our country's laws, and to show their own bigotry against anyone that supports law and order.

Send them back and give them instructions on how to do it right, and make them get in line behind the people that agree to honor our laws and respect our country. Thats compassion- to the CORRECT immigrants!

Anything else is bias, and bigotry aimed at the law-abiding immigrant, and that needs to be yelled at all those that think we should just take them all in.
edit on 6-8-2014 by lakesidepark because: polished up the mud and put it in the sling

edit on 6-8-2014 by lakesidepark because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 07:01 PM
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originally posted by: diggindirt
I got an email from a former student of mine recently. She's a Canadian, been living legally in the US with her parents since she was 5 years old. Her parents came here because her Dad was offered a good job and took the opportunity. They have always followed the law but since her Dad retired last year, his visa has been revoked and the entire family is facing deportation despite their efforts to follow the law and become US citizens. My student is in her last year of graduate school but has been informed that she won't be able to complete her studies in the US.

This young lady and her family have worked their entire lives, never taken a dime from the taxpayers of the US and yet they now face having to go back to Canada and begin life over???? And who would blame her for being upset that all she needs do is get into Mexico and then sneak across the southern border to be welcomed into the disease filled waiting rooms? Something is truly rotten to the core in the enforcement arm of our government.


Quoted simply because this bears REPEATING to the hard-heads that think they are compassionate because they wish to ignore the law. If our immigration system was not so overwhelmed with illegal immigrants, the ones that do it correctly may have a better chance of getting thru the red tape.

The process of LEGAL immigration is fraught with pitfalls, but if you break the law, you get a free pass, and get support from the government. The system is fractured, and some of us want to fix it. Some of my co-workers that are here legally from south of the border don't want leave and return riding the death train to get their citizenship, they would rather stay and finish the legal process of citizenship.

But screw them and screw the system, some say.



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 07:23 PM
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originally posted by: theantediluvian

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: theantediluvian

I guess that is only applicable to White US Citizens.





Yeah, we're so persecuted. That's why black people are almost 4x as likely to be arrested for marijuana possession despite similar rates of usage? Because white people are victimized by everyone else.



Huh....I really thought we were talking about Criminal Illegals. Not pot smokers.



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 07:26 PM
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a reply to: LeatherNLace

The act of crossing the border is criminal in nature.

The act of remaining here is criminal in nature.

The fact they are here illegally makes them..............drum roll please...........Illegals.


And when we put all that together, he get this wonderful mixture of criminal and illegal acts...

They are illegally here. They are not supposed to be here.

When a law is broken, it is a criminal act.

This is not very hard to understand.......unless you are a Progressive and then it is "just different".



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 07:27 PM
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a reply to: muse7


But apparently Mr. King and along with many House Republicans think we should deport these people back to their home countries and that is beyond my comprehension.


It shouldn't be beyond your comprehension. You have been involved in enough of these threads to at least get a basic understanding of the negative impact of illegal immigration. We don't reward the children of other law breakers, why should these dreamers be any different?

Illegals do not belong on some sort of pedestal to be treated better than the citizens of this Country, yet they are more often than not. You understand this, you have always understood. You just don't want to accept that the people of this Country have laws and want them upheld. You refuse to see how millions of our people are poor and un-employed, you only speak of the illegals and demand that they do not get deported.

No one should be rewarded just because they were a kid when they came here illegally by their illegal parents. If these kids are strangers in their own Country, whos fault is that? It is the fault of the parent who made the decision to come here through the back door.

You know of the plight of the desperate and frightened citizens of this Country and seem to believe that it is more important that the illegal have all his needs met first. In knowing all that you do, how can you not care of this Countries own people?



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 07:36 PM
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Ooooh, I like point by point retorts.



originally posted by: theantediluvian

1. Children born on American soil are... American citizens. You're very concerned with being legal, so I'm sure you're aware of the 14th amendment.

That is very nice, and it is super fantastic that this law is being bastardized into its current use.
This law was not created for the Criminal ILLEGAL to come here, squirt out a child and have a basis to stick around here. Or receive Govt handouts that benefit "the child".


originally posted by: theantediluvian
2. Only 4,000 individuals a year are granted any sort of protection from deportation based on having a child born here. To be eligible, the illegal immigrant has to have been here for 10 years. These children also cannot sponsor their parents.

I would like to see your source on that.
The number should be a big fat 0.


originally posted by: theantediluvian
3. The parents do not become eligible for any of the programs I mentioned because they have a child born in the US with the exception of SNAP for the child, not themselves, WIC again for the child who is an American citizen, not themselves, and certain prenatal care.

Oh, so the child uses the SNAP card at the store in place of the Criminal ILLEGAL parent. Very interesting.



originally posted by: theantediluvian
4. Job growth is due to illegal immigrants taking jobs? Please explain how you're arriving at this conclusion. I doubt it's from estimates from the BLS.

5. CIS, the worst of the network of anti-immigration propaganda machines, calculated the cost of medical treatment for illegal immigrants to be:

Seems your statement was blasted a couple responses down from here.


originally posted by: theantediluvian

We estimate the current cost of treating uninsured illegal immigrants at all levels of government to be $4.3 billion a year, primarily at emergency rooms and free clinics.

And that should also be a big fat 0.


originally posted by: theantediluvian
That was in 2009, right at the peak of the illegal immigrant population.

And that is very nice as well.


originally posted by: theantediluvian
6. Out of the federal budget, less than 1% goes toward education. The single biggest source of funding for education is property taxes. If an illegal immigrant is paying rent, then their landlord is (or should be) paying property taxes.

The Criminal ILLEGAL should not be using the schools systems for the Criminal ILLEGAL child.
Oh, and regardless if the Landlord collects rent or not, THEY still pay the taxes.
Soooo, really regardless if it is $1 spent, it is $1 too much.

They do not have permission to be here. They broke laws coming here. They are breaking laws staying here. They need to be deported.

And for the Anchor baby families, the Criminal ILLEGAL portion needs to be deported as well. The child can return once they are an adult, otherwise they really should stay with their LEGAL parents.



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 07:40 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
What part of "here illegally" do these DREAMers not get. And what part of we (who are here legally) fed them, etc., do they not appreciate when they then demand yet more from us as if they are somehow owed it?

I don't care who they are or where they came from. I only care that they broke the laws and then leached off us. If we sent them back home, maybe all those goodies they received off my hard work would benefit their own country so that more like them could STAY THERE instead of coming here and demanding food, clothing, shelter, education, health care, and other things that I am currently struggling to provide my own child because I'm taxed to provide it all for them and others like them who come like ever increasing swarms of locusts from all over the world.


Well alright. I'm with you in principle at least.

But...

He almost choked on his burger and scooted outta there right quick though. It was still funny as hell.




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