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Young american Jew stands up for Palestine and then...

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posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 05:31 PM
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originally posted by: FlySolo

originally posted by: abe froman
a reply to: Exitt I'm a Canadian and I would proudly stand in solidarity with Palestinians in Israel. But sadly, you would try to kill me for it.


WTF? I would try to kill you for it? Really?

I am not supporting either side. Both sides are fubar as far as I can see. My point is the kid wanted to start a commotion and draw attention to himself and the Che Gueverra shirt not only gives it away ,but also demonstrates a vast ignorance.




posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 05:33 PM
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a reply to: Grimpachi

Not if I don't have blood on my hands.



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 05:36 PM
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a reply to: FlySolo
Both sides have blood on their hands. On their feet, in their hair,they're bloody to their knees and elbows.
People all over the world have chosen a side and carry the fight from the sand to these very boards. There is no "right" side here, just more and more wrong.



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 05:40 PM
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a reply to: abe froman

"you" was generally speaking for Israelis, if indeed that's were you are. In other words, I would get mobbed.

Yes, perhaps the lad was a tad ignorant, but that still doesn't excuse the behavior of the police. It would appear any 1st amendment there either doesn't exist or it does but only 1-sided.


edit on 6-8-2014 by FlySolo because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 05:42 PM
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originally posted by: abe froman
a reply to: FlySolo
Both sides have blood on their hands. On their feet, in their hair,they're bloody to their knees and elbows.
People all over the world have chosen a side and carry the fight from the sand to these very boards. There is no "right" side here, just more and more wrong.



No disagreement from me there. But again, that doesn't excuse Israel from committing war crimes.



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 05:53 PM
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a reply to: FlySolo
Or Palestine.

But isn't this really Israel's civil war?



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 05:56 PM
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originally posted by: abe froman
a reply to: Exitt The guy was talking pro palestinian in Israel surrounded by Israelis. Go to Harlem and talk anti black.
And when an Israeli police officer asks for your passport you present it, you are a guest in their country, or face arrest, prosecution, and probably a well earned whoopin.
Why do Americans so often think they can do whatever they want in other countries and that screaming "I'm an American citizen" gives them some kind of free pass?

Maybe the thread title should be " Young American spewing pro Palestine rhetoric in Israel refuses to show passport and is hauled off by Israeli police".


So what are you saying? That this makes what happened acceptable? Sounds like a lovely place.



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 05:58 PM
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originally posted by: abe froman
a reply to: FlySolo
Or Palestine.

But isn't this really Israel's civil war?


No.

It is not their civil war. A civil war is a war between groups of people in the same country.



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 06:05 PM
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a reply to: abe froman

But I've already said about 10 times this week. Shouldn't Israel hold itself to a higher standard? Why does that keep falling on deaf ears? No one wants to answer it because you all know the cost of the truth.



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 06:06 PM
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a reply to: ~Lucidity They are in the same country. Israel. Palestine is no more a country than the Confederate States of America.



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 06:12 PM
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a reply to: abe froman

It's Palestinian land and it was designated by the UN. But you're right, it's not a nation, it's a prison camp.



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 06:23 PM
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a reply to: FlySolo I wish we could separate these kids. Isn't there enough land for everybody there? If a Hamas rocket costs about $10,000 and an Iron Dome missile costs $100,000 wouldn't a much better use for that money be building 2 $60,000 homes? 1 for a Palestinian and 1 for a Jew.

Funny how there were not really any problems between the Arabs and Jews there until their governments got involved.

Maybe it's just time to take out Hamas AND the current Israeli Government and start over.



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 06:31 PM
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originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow
Pro Palestinian equals "anti- black" to you?
You are off it.


I dunno, in the 80's when overt rascism was enjoying its final dying gasps the safe thing was to say, "I'm not rascist. I have no problem with blacks, I just hate N***** "

I see an awful lot of " I'm not antisemitic, I just hate Zionists....."

It sounds the same to me.



edit on 6-8-2014 by Drunkenparrot because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 06:35 PM
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a reply to: Drunkenparrot

Hell I've heard black people themselves sit around saying how so and so is a 'n-word' and how they hate those darn 'n-word's...



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 06:42 PM
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a reply to: Drunkenparrot

That is a pretty good observation. I had never thought of it that way but it makes sense.



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 06:43 PM
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a reply to: abe froman

Finally, I think you might be seeing things from a fresh perspective. I can tell you why Arabs and Jews don't fight in other countries. Because it's not theirs to fight on. That's why they lived together fine during the Ottoman Empire. I think the answer should become clear...

It really was once the UN stepped in, things got mucked up. And I don't believe there was much of a Zionist influence prior to the 1900's either.

As for separating, well they can't because there is literally no room. Gaza is only 6-12 km wide and 24 km long with a population of 1.8 million people.



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 06:54 PM
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a reply to: FlySolo I just think my posts are misunderstood.
Why does it have to be there though? There is LOTS of uninhabited land in the world. Egypt is a huge supporter of Palestinians for example and has plenty of open space. US is a big supporter of Israel and we have plenty of wide open space.
If two children fight over the same toy the only fair thing to do is take it from both.



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 07:01 PM
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a reply to: abe froman

It's too late for that now. The only solution is a two-state one because neither of both parties are willing to give up their right to return. I actually have something thought out and put it in another thread. I'll go get it.




The true art of negotiations is to make the other person feel they have won something. There must always be a win/win for both parties. First, you need to ask "What do you want?" and "What am I prepared to give?"

I think we can easily hack through the BS and get right to the main points. Let this be a draft for a pseudo agreement.

Palestine:
- wants Israel to give up the Zionist entitlement to the entire region
- wants Israel to open the borders
- wants more territory
- wants to be recognized as a sovereign state and a right to self-determination
- wants peace

Israel:
- wants Palestine to recognize Israel as a Jewish state and accepts them to be the rightful *owners of the geographical area including the West Bank to rule without question and dominate for the rest of time.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's really all Israel asks. Any other subsequent requests or addendum from Israel would only be a byproduct of Gaza's aggression. No tunnels, rocket attacks, etc.

So there's the framework, let's begin with that. Who's has the most to offer/lose? Are they equal? It seems, if I were to place both on a virtual scale, Israel's demand is quite a tall order. Clearly, she tips the scales and is in complete control of the negotiations table. She has to give something up.

So now, this is where things get complicated. Realistically, peace won't happen overnight. What needs to happen is, a 5-point stage of border definitions incremented on milestones. Israel gives up some land, Gaza behaves. Wash, rinse, repeat. But they can't do this alone, there must be a governing body to oversee the progress and enforce the rules. This is where I propose it gets hairy.

Israel must agree to a two-state solution. Gaza must agree to never ever ever fire an attack on Israel again. Something similar to how Germany and Japan relinquished their right to militarize for offensive purposes after ww2. Palestine gets promised a full member status on the UN after a predetermined amount of time provided there are 0 escalations. This should be incentive. If Israel does anything, all foreign aid immediately halts, all allies move to a neutral position and sanctions begin immediately. During completion of these milestones, an economic link needs to be established between the two states. Some mutual business framework is created to allow a co-dependency to happen. This is crucial. IE: Exclusive commercial fishing permits, silicon production, licensing agreements. There must be a viable economic plan for the future in order for this to sustain itself.

Then finally, after an x-amount of time, mediation will be withdrawn and both states can act like civil nations in the 21st century.

edit on 6-8-2014 by FlySolo because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-8-2014 by FlySolo because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 07:09 PM
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a reply to: FlySolo

Is this guy an Israeli citizen??? Very important point, makes the perspective of what happened to him quite different.

If yes, then he had bad choice of place to protest.

But if he is not a citizen, then where does anyone think he has the right to speak out without invitation? Not his country.
He's an instigator at that point, round him up and deport as necessary.



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 07:18 PM
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originally posted by: lakesidepark
a reply to: FlySolo

Is this guy an Israeli citizen??? Very important point, makes the perspective of what happened to him quite different.

If yes, then he had bad choice of place to protest.

But if he is not a citizen, then where does anyone think he has the right to speak out without invitation? Not his country.
He's an instigator at that point, round him up and deport as necessary.



What if 1000 Canadians went there for an Occupy movement and camped out? How bout 1000 Canadians, 500 Germans, 800 French and 2000 Americans and groups from all other countries that donate money to Israel?



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