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"Heaven is for Real"...Or Is It?

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posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 04:30 PM
So, let me preface this by saying that I personally am not a religious person. That being said, I know several people including family members that are. Some family members were recently watching the movie "Heaven is for Real". Basically about a kid that almost dies and claims to have journeyed to Heaven, knowing things that were impossible for the kid to know, for instance about a deceased sibling, and also claims to have seen other family members I believe. Now the question is, does the bible not say, that :

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:'s%20Corner/Doctrines/rapture.htm
So basically it states that the people that are ALREADY dead, will be the first to rise to Heaven. Not that they are already there. However, many Christians I have spoke to believe that when you die you immediately go to Heaven and are reunited with deceased loved ones, and able to look down upon living relatives. As I stated earlier, I personally do not believe any of this, but I am very curious. How do the Christians of ATS feel about this? This movie is supposed to be based on true events, and many have these very same beliefs. However according to your own Bible, it clearly states that no one will rise to heaven, before the second coming of Christ.
On a side not, I respect the fact that some are believers and some are not. I just ask please have respect for MY beliefs as well, and lets just try and have a civil debate.(I do know religion is a touchy subject, and opinions do vary
ETA:I am especially curious about Christians thoughts on this. Thank you in advance.
edit on 5-8-2014 by thesmokingman because: (no reason given)

posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 04:43 PM
I believe it is not official church doctrine that you just die and go to heaven immediately after. Its more of an assumption. From my observations, the majority of christians don't actually put much research into the more trivial aspects of Christianity. Which, isnt a bad thing. They don't matter in the grand scheme of things.

posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 04:44 PM

Heaven Is for Real is the story of Colton Burpo, the four-year-old son of Pastor Todd Burpo from Imperial, Nebraska who says he experienced Heaven during emergency surgery. He talked about looking down to see the doctor operating, his mother calling people to pray in the waiting room and his father in another room yelling at God. The family did not know what to believe. In Heaven, Burpo says he met his miscarried sister whom no one had ever told him about and his great-grandfather who died thirty years before Burpo was born. Sharing seemingly impossible details about each, Burpo then went on to describe the horse that Jesus had and his physical appearance.

posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 04:48 PM
Heaven and earth. I believe this is a very personal matter. The boy in the video may lie for all we know, just to satisfy his father. But I am a Christian and I believe that there is a heaven, there you go when you die. And hell is a bad life on earth in my opinion.a reply to: thesmokingman

posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 04:53 PM
I would imagine from the POV of the deceased, one moment he/she was alive here on earth, then next moment is either in heaven/paradise, or waiting in line at the Great White Throne Judgment, to see if his/her name is in the Book of Life. Meanwhile from our (the living) POV, tens, hundreds, even thousands of years could pass, for the dead know nothing, not even the passage of time.

posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 04:54 PM
You can't get into heaven without a ticket. I got mine twelve years ago, the cop gave it to me.

posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 04:55 PM
a reply to: thesmokingman

Instantly going to heaven is only half true. A more biblical way of explaining is that time is not a factor anymore after dying. Just like waking from a deep sleep, we'll instantly be at the time of Jesus' second coming.

posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 04:59 PM

originally posted by: WeZet
a reply to: thesmokingman

Instantly going to heaven is only half true. A more biblical way of explaining is that time is not a factor anymore after dying. Just like waking from a deep sleep, we'll instantly be at the time of Jesus' second coming.

That does make a little sense, but kind of improbable. That would mean it has already happened I think. Can you tell me how it is "half true"? Just curious.

posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 05:02 PM
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Heaven is for real. The story 'Heaven is for real' ... not so much, IMHO. While I believe NDEs happen very frequently, I'm not buying the story as it's been put out. The fact that the father is a minister and the kid is saying exactly what the father wants to hear makes me suspect the story.

That being said, different Christian groups have different ideas on going to heaven. MOST believe that when you die then you instantly go to either heaven or hell, perhaps with a purgatory stop before getting to heaven. Some believe in the 'you sleep in the grave until the second coming'. But I've experienced too much with ghosts and with a certain saint having some one-on-one time with me here on Earth, so I know there is no 'sleeping in the grave'.

And scripture doesn't necessarily say that people are 'sleeping in the grave' until the second coming. When Jesus was put to death on the cross, the good thief (Called St. Dismas by Catholics) said to Jesus 'Lord remember me when you come into your kingdom" .. and Jesus Himself said to him 'Today you will be with me in paradise'. So there was no 'you'll be with me in paradise when I come back in a few thousand years and wake you up'.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 05:08 PM
a reply to: FlyersFan

Two VERY good points!! Thank you FlyersFan

posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 05:17 PM
a reply to: thesmokingman
John 3:13: “No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.”
Ecclesiastes 9:5 “For the living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing”
Ecclesiastes 9:10 “Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going”
1Thessalonians 4:15 “For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep."
John 11:11 “Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up.”

Seems reasonably clear. No one goes to heaven when they die. Unless...
2Corinthians 5:8 8 "We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord."
It would seem that Paul is implying that maybe we do, since the lord is in heaven, at the right hand of god. So to be present with him, is to be in heaven, right? Well...maybe not. Paul doesn't say it's immediate.

If NDE's are any indicator of the after-life. Then all religions, and atheists too, are correct. Depending on which NDE you want to believe.
edit on 8/5/2014 by Klassified because: bold

edit on 8/5/2014 by Klassified because: (no reason given)

edit on 8/5/2014 by Klassified because: (no reason given)

posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 05:29 PM
Jehovah's witnesses believe you go to the grave and wait. No heaven until the final play.

posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 05:50 PM
There is NOTHING in the scripture that says after a person "dies they will go to a "place" called heaven.It is purely a religious extrapolation.There is no "place" heaven.

When someone is dead they are the the realm of death and imperception.The scriptures calls this 'realm"hades" poorly translated and extrapolated in the religious doctrine as the eternal punishment of "hell".

What people "believe" is a place called heaven is what the scriptures call the realm of the Kingdom of the creator God.In that realm the creator God is in "your heavens".The word heaven(Greek… ouranos) is a term for a higher "life" (spirit).When you are in a frame of mind that is "joy" you are "In" your heavens.The scriptures testify that Yahoshua(which means Yahweh the creator God.. is deliverance..specifically from hades) is ABOVE ALL the heavens.

In other words the creator God is going to deliver ALL of mankind from the realm of death and resurrect them into the realm of the creator God(LIFE) which is ABOVE all the heavens of man.The religion of man has perverted that into "mysticism" with speculation about heaven and hell and people coming back from the dead etc.etc…….none of it is based in reason.It is all in the "heavens" of man…their emotions and feelings they "perceive" incorrectly through the belief in their faith in their Belief System religion.

The scriptures testify of two sure things .All of mankind WILL die and be in the realm of death (hades)and all of mankind WILL be resurrected to LIFE into the realm of the Kingdom of the creator God.It does NOT testify of a fantasy place called "heaven".It does not testify of any "details" of that realm of existence because it can't be known and perceived in "this realm".

That would be like Walt Disney trying to "explain" to Mickey Mouse what the 4 dimensional world was.Mickey can only perceive in 2 dimensions and his "perception" of those 2 dimensions is 100% based on what Walt puts in his mind (heavens).The fact is Mickey does not need to "know" for the 4 dimensional realm to exist.Walt is drawing "shadows" of his world in Mickeys mind BUT they are not Walt's world they are only shadows of heavens.

Heaven is NOT a place it is a perception in a mans mind. Everyones "heavens " are different and they are in effect only the heavens of their mind in the lower realm(the valley of the shadow of death and life).The Kingdom of the creator God realm can NOT even be imagined.Everything falls completely short of that "real"reality.To perceive that you can is only "in your mind".

edit on 5-8-2014 by Rex282 because: (no reason given)

posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 06:08 PM
There are a number of things you need to consider here:

1) Prior to the death of Christ, the dead 'slept'; that is, they were neither glorified (with new heavenly bodies, as 1 Corinthians 15 discusses) nor translated into heaven. Jesus outlined the dichotomy of the afterlife in Luke 19, talking about 'the Rich Man and Lazarus'. Both were in Sheol; one in the place of the dead, the other in 'Abraham's bosom'. One in great suffering, the other happy and healthy. Neither, though, were with Christ.

2) After the death of Christ, we know that this paradigm has changed.
We can see that "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord", but at the same time, as you've quoted, "the dead in Christ shall rise first".

This comes down to the nature of man. We know that man is composed of body, soul and spirit (and yes, soul and spirit are distinct entities, for the Word of God is "able to divide between" them (Hebrews 4:12).

Upon death, our bodies die. They decay and turn to dust (this term, 'dust', is a Biblical term for atoms, or component parts). Our spirits, however, go to be with the Lord. At the Rapture (the event described in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18, which you quoted), the dead in Christ will rise, those still alive and remaining will rise up to meet with them, and with the Lord, and the bodies of both those living and Raptured, and dead and Raptured, are translated and glorified. Scripture uses the word 'oikiterion' to describe these bodies - the word literally means 'housing', and describes an 'outer covering', which is what our bodies are. Our current bodies are flesh; the new bodies will be spiritual flesh. I don't take this to be an airy-fairy concept, but a technology statement of sorts. Our current bodies are limited to three dimensions; spiritual bodies are not (e.g. see Jesus entering/leaving rooms without opening doors, appearing and disappearing on the Emmaus road, and so on).

So, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord - but spiritually, not bodily. It is not until the Rapture that the resurrection of the saints takes place, and both the living and the dead in Christ will be instantly clothed with new, spiritual bodies (read 1 Corinthians 15 for a full rundown on this). The only criteria for participation in this event is a saving belief in Jesus Christ, marked by the presence of the Holy Spirit in your life.

Those at this time who are not covered by the blood of Jesus Christ will remain here on earth. At that point, a period that the Bible calls "the Tribulation" will commence, marked by seven years of horrific pain and bloodshed - both through man's inhumanity to man, through Satan's influence, and through God's own judgment. This will be a time when, in large measure, the restraining power of God will be removed, and more than half of all life on earth will die. This will be the final seven years of this period of history, and "there will be none like it, either before or after".

I believe we are on the cusp of this time period right now. I don't know how long we have; the Bible doesn't give a date for this event's occurrence, it merely says "be ready". The Rapture (the evacuation of God's people) occurs first, then the Tribulation - and after that, the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. When He returns, however, He comes not in peace, but in judgment upon the nations of the world.

Time is quite literally running out - and if you've never investigated for yourself the claims of Jesus Christ, the time to do that is now.

If you don't have a Bible, get one.
If you can't get one, message me and I'll mail you one. My cost.
It's that important. I believe we may very well have mere weeks or months until these events occur, and, as mad as that might sound (and as much as I'd love to throw on a sandwich board and run out into the street screaming "THE END IS NIGH!!!"), the signs are all around us. We discuss them here every single day. We KNOW something is wrong, we KNOW something is about to happen... but it's like we just can't quite place our finger on what that thing is. It's why we look for false flags, it's why we discuss conspiracies, and it's why we have so many doom porn lovers! ...but the truth is, the Bible told us thousands of years in advance that this was coming.

First, the reunification of Israel.
Second, the Rapture
Third, the Tribulation
Finally, the Second Coming of Christ.

There are other signs, of course - wars that the Bible presents in great detail that include players never before aligned together (Russia/Iran/China being the big one), and numerous other events that we can see just waiting to be unleashed.
Time is short.
Make a decision, and make it now. If you're not informed enough, get informed... and if you don't have a Bible, get one, or ask me to give you one!

posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 06:17 PM
When you die your brain stops working and you are nothing more than a lump of rotting flesh. Some people can't accept that. Some worry about what some student would do to their dead body in medical school and want to make sure their corpse is "safe".....sheeesh. YOU'RE DEAD!!!

I am perfectly at peace with the thought that "my life" will not be a soul in heaven but the memories of me in the minds of my descendants, writings, photos and videos. That is important, I will ensure my life is preserved....digitally these days.

posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 06:34 PM
Thank you for the thread. Another example of where the bible is from my point of view not 100% correct when tested against peoples experience of the supernatural.

Just proves to me that religious dogma should be questioned with a scientific method and that people experience should be used as 2nd hand information that might show a truer picture of the other side of the veil than old beliefs.

But then I am a believer in spiritual knowledge evolving just like scientific knowledge increases if you let people seek "what is" instead of what they are indoctrinated and told is.
edit on 5-8-2014 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)

posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 07:03 PM
For God, all things are possible and all times and places. If He wants to take a person and show them a glimpse of what will be as though it is because for Him it IS just as He IS - was, is and will be all at once - then He most certainly can.

Is Colton Burpo's story true? Maybe.

posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 07:19 PM
I believe there are many levels of heaven, not just one or three. The higher you go the more you worship God continually and win the war for that you worship. There is a level for in between bodies, that might be the third one, and higher still. But you don't get there tapping your heels together; worshipping God is the point for it to be. Some levels are challenging, with spirits in whirlwinds, and lightning, and no they are not all good for you, your future, or the rest of the people and land weather, those who have to live with you on earth. There are places where wars are fought and debates are brought. There are places where eternal beings worship continually. They look on us too.

posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 08:41 PM
a reply to: thesmokingman

You're confusing the afterlife with resurrection. That bit in Thessalonians refers to the second coming, when the dead in Christ are resurrected (living people don't need to be resurrected, though the whole issue of how that works is a bit complicated.)

If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body. (Philippians 1:22-24 NIV)

Here Paul bemoans the crappy life that he is living, and notes that he longs to "be with Christ", an indication that we are with Christ when we die, and there are a number of other passages that show that "soul sleep" is not correct. Here is another:

When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been. (Revelation of John 6:9-11 NIV)

This is a psalm of complaint -- the souls of the martyrs are complaining to God that he needs to get busy on the current evil inhabitants of Earth. How could they be complaining if they are in "soul sleep"?

edit on 5-8-2014 by adjensen because: (no reason given)

posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 07:21 PM
a reply to: thesmokingman

Heaven is just as real as earth. There is short judgment i think comes from karma and then there is end judgment. However i also believe that i have a sac full of half humans.

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