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Israel media war - on ATS as well??? Are we infilitrated?

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posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 06:24 PM
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originally posted by: SuperFrog

So question is not if we are infiltrated, but how much we are?!

Very little. I think you assume ATS has far more influence on the public mind than it does. I would suspect that we are looked upon as "tin hat nutters believing in Aliens". That does not mean that ATS does not have it's Israeli members, of course it does, and it's Ukrainians and it's Russian etc etc. Each bringing to the table the collective viewpoint that is swirling around the public mindset of their respective countries.




posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 06:24 PM
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originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

What you view as truth , doesnt actually make it truth......

Point is you and others refuse to hold Hamas responsible for their role in this......for what they do to the Palestenian people.......

Thats not objective........not one bit...........and when you arent being objective, youre just looking for a reason to hate........


I love discussions don't let it be over.

I believe the world knows the truth, you can feel it in your heart at night when you go to sleep but some people just aren't ready to accept it.

The truth is that there is a book and in that book a story is written about a piece of land somewhere on earth that is supposed to be very special piece of land. Some people found a way to control that piece of land by making the world feel sorry for them because of some awful things they've previously endured and 'gifting' them that special piece of land.

There was a huge problem though, the native inhabitants of that land just didn't agree. They didn't want to share their land, they didn't even read the book and the story saying it's all BS and stuff. At first they tried the democratic way of voting and writing letters to everybody refusing to go along with the plan but nobody would listen. That's when Hamas embryo was made. Now after 70 years the boy Hamas is all grown up and he is angry and violent.

So you tell me, who is responsible?



posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 06:48 PM
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a reply to: Exitt
'Native' inhabitants...pfft.

Even if we knew who were the first humans to set foot in this part of the world, it would be irrelevant to the current situation.

In fact, it would be just as irrelevant as your blatant contempt for religion.



posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 07:26 PM
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originally posted by: OpenMindedRealist

Even if we knew who were the first humans to set foot in this part of the world, it would be irrelevant to the current situation.


Exactly, we are not talking about first humans ever to set foot on there .. just these last 100 years or so of current affairs.

Thank you for agreeing with me and making it all so crystal clear



posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 07:38 PM
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a reply to: Exitt

"Who is Responsible" That's the question I feel is meaningless in the debate and that's also mainly the Palestinian supporters argument and it's a BAD argument, the only thing that actually matters is who is there right now, that land has changed hands 50x even in dealing with the most recent episode, you kind of have to blame the Western Victors of WW2 not The Palestinains or The Israelis

In virtually every other situation of conflict in human history this debate isn't entertained, long ago almost anywhere else Nations would have opened the door to refugees from Palestine and this would be long over, but what happened here? 2 Things, 1 when openings for refugees have happened... the Palestinians don't go and 2 which is larger... No one will take them.

America dropped 2 A-Bombs on Japan, today we are great friends, I go to Japan regularly. When it was time for the war by any level of sanity to be over even the incredibly proud Japanese said "hey, this is over" it's called "loosing" i happens, but Hamas in particular has 9 year olds digging tunnels, absolutely wants Israel destroyed... dealing with "today" isn't going to happen. 100% of what is going on revolves around a fight to the death/martyrdom mentality which historically isn't exactly effective as told to us by the 5000-6000 yr calenders of the Chinese and Jews respectively, where are the martyr civilizations of history? Dead of course, personally I can't mourn over the Deaths of those who live in a civilization that believes in dying "for the cause" as a central belief system, particularly when in the end... that cause is the afterlife which means IT NEVER ENDS no matter who is next door or what the circumstances are.

Who caused it? I'd blame WW2 as the actual cause.

Regardless of that, it changes nothing. At this point in time, Israel has large modern infra structure, is part of the global economy, by numbers has the land by a wide margin at this point in time. It's also not actually a spoke in the wheel of a converting rampant religious ideology and mainly a modern nation state... Palestine is a refugee camp, barely and Hamas has turned it into a guerrilla warfare staging camp dooming the remaining survivors... I think if you asked any Japanese or anyone who ever lost a war, that now lives a decent fulfilling life, if they ever regretted that their Grandparents understood what "a lost cause" was and surrendered they'd text you back from their nice house on their smart phone while watching their kids play and say "NO totally glad they did"

Hamas is the cause of the Palestinian suffering plain and simple, the Israelis aren't that bad, they could be at peace Israeli rule is often very liberal... but at the bottom is a set of religious ideologies that make life suck, that everyone else 5.5 of 7 Billion people can't and wont live under and i'm sorry but... Under a genuine nation state you CAN do what you want, but no one makes you... In other words the Israelis have the right of way, Under Islamic rule in any form they are going to be TOLD and Violently be forced to exist under another religious doctrine... under western civilization or eastern civilization they simply would have to tolerate other peoples freedoms to do as they wish BUT could still remain uniquely who they are which is not an occupation...

Hamas has sentenced the Palestinians to Death not Israel

If the guns were laid down and the remaining Palestinians wanted to be a part of greater Israel or at least an independent "non hostile" state it would be relatively nice there, they chose to elect Hamas there is No Mom in Palestine that doesn't know what her 9 yr old is doing digging tunnels, the votes don't lie, people choose to let their children be used as human shields and it boils down to absolute never ending intolerance, Jews do NOT convert... there was no threat to Palestinian Religion or Culture their religion and culture dictate that the Israelis have to be a certain way not vice versa, Israel has a vast section of Orthodox... it doesn't stop night clubs from being open, alcohol from being served, women and gays from having rights, every Jew is a citizen of Israel but no Jew is stoned for not believing and NO ONE alive is asked let alone demanded to convert... They could have remained AS IS, with no impact on their personal lives, they chose, they said better to be dead, better our children die in the street then we allow anyone else to live as they wish even when those people are vastly the MAJORITY



posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 07:59 PM
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The entire debate...

Be it Palestinian or Israeli... no one under 90 was older than 20 when Jews were shipped off to Israel by the powers that were victorious in WW2, Palestinian circumstance and Israel as a nation State are the direct result of the end treaties of WW2

Every Other Nation on Earth has stopped fighting WW2 and made prosperity for their people.

None of the people living there in either camp was even alive, the majority in Palestine were born in the last 20 years...

Palestine, is the equivalent of a colony of Japanese troops on an island some where and their offspring continuing to fight America. That's not "stick to it tiveness" that's a culture that will never adapt because it follows an insane ideology. Most jews aren't in Israel because of "religion" only 50% of Israelis even light candles on friday night, 1/3 don't even believe in God... they are there and built cities there because England and the US said we are giving this to you... Now that's where they live just like the Palestinians, MOST were BORN there, the vast majority. One side WOULD tolerate the beliefs of the other.



posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 08:27 PM
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www.liveleak.com...
The Palestine/Israel problem cannot be fixed with the same level of thinking that created it.

edit on 5-8-2014 by all2human because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 09:11 PM
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originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: Arpad

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

There is no discussion. Rabid palestinian posters shut down any logical discussion on the topic with a zealous gang mentality.


There's no discussion because one side of the argument just plays the perpetual victim. Then they resort to their buzzwords in a desperate attempt to slander opposition and silence them.

"anti-semite"
"neo-nazi"
and now "terrorist supporter"

How many people actually said they support hamas? Not many, most support Palestinians and there is a agenda to make sure it doesn't come across that way.


Its not so much what people say as what they DONT say, what they REFUSE to say, and who they refuse to hold accountable.......

They want to blame everything on Israel, but then make excuses for Hamas........

There are no excuses for Hamas, Hamas is just as guilty for the deaths and oppression of the Palestenian people as any part of the Israeli gov is......

When people realize this then there can be steps made to make a change.......until then, the rest is polarizing division with no hope of resolution


It goes much deeper than that, although I would agree that Israel's actions have made the Gaza population more supportive of HAMAS than before, like the parents of the children who were killed on the beach in Gaza, who hated HAMAS before that.
But, It is becoming increasingly clear to me that HAMAS is not the principle foe against Israel in what is happening lately, no matter what you see and hear on the TV screens, but is ISIS, who do not consider HAMAS as part of the ISIS declared, 'Islamic state' and that's why Israel is closing the tunnels, and I have no doubt that HAMAS in truth are amenable to that, as is Egypt. ISIS has also claimed responsibility for at least some rockets coming out of Gaza.
There is still the need to know who ISIS is, or perhaps isn't.
There is the need to know why HAMAS and Israel are not that much bothered by the body count on either side.
There is also the need to know why this ISIS land army are supposed to be attacking the Kurds in Northern Iraq AND in Syria, there are a lot of, 'need to knows' and best guess is that ISIS is not what it is supposed to be, and just another manufactured piece of intelligence work from whomever. It is much to think about, especially if all that's happened, and all the deaths, is just another charade.
edit on 5-8-2014 by smurfy because: Text.



posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 09:13 PM
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a reply to: smurfy

all very great points there man, I really dont have much more to add then that, I totally agree with you



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 08:14 AM
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a reply to: ManBehindTheMask


If you cant hold Hamas responsible for the attrocities they have brought upon their own people along with the horrible things that the Israeli gov has done, then you are not looking for solution, you are looking to just blame Jews

I never said the word Jews at all...
And I don't have an agenda!!!

You said Hamas is to blame for Palestinian deaths...
So by that logic Israel is to blame for Israeli deaths...
You can't have it both ways!!!

I've no idea why my post was removed because I never used bad manners either!!!

& I didn't call you a shill...
I was quite clear in saying you're not...
My point was Israel doesn't need to pay people to spout rubbish because some will do it for free!!!

But whatever!!!

I see an agenda in me being silenced for no reason!!!


Peace Mask!!!



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 10:46 AM
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originally posted by: criticalhit
a reply to: Exitt

"Who is Responsible" That's the question I feel is meaningless in the debate and that's also mainly the Palestinian supporters argument and it's a BAD argument, the only thing that actually matters is who is there right now, that land has changed hands 50x even in dealing with the most recent episode, you kind of have to blame the Western Victors of WW2 not The Palestinains or The Israelis

In virtually every other situation of conflict in human history this debate isn't entertained, long ago almost anywhere else Nations would have opened the door to refugees from Palestine and this would be long over, but what happened here? 2 Things, 1 when openings for refugees have happened... the Palestinians don't go and 2 which is larger... No one will take them.

America dropped 2 A-Bombs on Japan, today we are great friends, I go to Japan regularly. When it was time for the war by any level of sanity to be over even the incredibly proud Japanese said "hey, this is over" it's called "loosing" i happens, but Hamas in particular has 9 year olds digging tunnels, absolutely wants Israel destroyed... dealing with "today" isn't going to happen. 100% of what is going on revolves around a fight to the death/martyrdom mentality which historically isn't exactly effective as told to us by the 5000-6000 yr calenders of the Chinese and Jews respectively, where are the martyr civilizations of history? Dead of course, personally I can't mourn over the Deaths of those who live in a civilization that believes in dying "for the cause" as a central belief system, particularly when in the end... that cause is the afterlife which means IT NEVER ENDS no matter who is next door or what the circumstances are.

Who caused it? I'd blame WW2 as the actual cause.

Regardless of that, it changes nothing. At this point in time, Israel has large modern infra structure, is part of the global economy, by numbers has the land by a wide margin at this point in time. It's also not actually a spoke in the wheel of a converting rampant religious ideology and mainly a modern nation state... Palestine is a refugee camp, barely and Hamas has turned it into a guerrilla warfare staging camp dooming the remaining survivors... I think if you asked any Japanese or anyone who ever lost a war, that now lives a decent fulfilling life, if they ever regretted that their Grandparents understood what "a lost cause" was and surrendered they'd text you back from their nice house on their smart phone while watching their kids play and say "NO totally glad they did"

Hamas is the cause of the Palestinian suffering plain and simple, the Israelis aren't that bad, they could be at peace Israeli rule is often very liberal... but at the bottom is a set of religious ideologies that make life suck, that everyone else 5.5 of 7 Billion people can't and wont live under and i'm sorry but... Under a genuine nation state you CAN do what you want, but no one makes you... In other words the Israelis have the right of way, Under Islamic rule in any form they are going to be TOLD and Violently be forced to exist under another religious doctrine... under western civilization or eastern civilization they simply would have to tolerate other peoples freedoms to do as they wish BUT could still remain uniquely who they are which is not an occupation...

Hamas has sentenced the Palestinians to Death not Israel

If the guns were laid down and the remaining Palestinians wanted to be a part of greater Israel or at least an independent "non hostile" state it would be relatively nice there, they chose to elect Hamas there is No Mom in Palestine that doesn't know what her 9 yr old is doing digging tunnels, the votes don't lie, people choose to let their children be used as human shields and it boils down to absolute never ending intolerance, Jews do NOT convert... there was no threat to Palestinian Religion or Culture their religion and culture dictate that the Israelis have to be a certain way not vice versa, Israel has a vast section of Orthodox... it doesn't stop night clubs from being open, alcohol from being served, women and gays from having rights, every Jew is a citizen of Israel but no Jew is stoned for not believing and NO ONE alive is asked let alone demanded to convert... They could have remained AS IS, with no impact on their personal lives, they chose, they said better to be dead, better our children die in the street then we allow anyone else to live as they wish even when those people are vastly the MAJORITY






Excellent post!



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 12:28 PM
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originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71
a reply to: SuperFrog
They believe letting their foot off of throttle will lead to their extermination.
can't say I blame them.


I get what you're saying here and there is a case to be made for it, but if they don't take their foot off the throttle sometime, they're going to run us all over in the end.



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 09:39 PM
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originally posted by: combatmaster
a reply to: SuperFrog



I mean, we see picture with bomb falling, and one of members does not believe it, as you have to pro-photographer to be able to take a picture like that. Once supplied with info about photographer, that was not enough... etc.. and I came to realization, unless bomb does not hit him in head, he would not believe it - or for better wording - he does not wants to believe it. (this is just one of examples)



I dont think that points to infiltration...

i saw this post a few days ago, somebody saying something along the lines of "you cannot prove hamas is the one firing those rockets, it is israel firing on themselves to create a false flag reson to go to commit genocide in Gaza..."

How is one meant to respond to such an outlandish and stupendous remark? i waste my time responding but i dont believe it was a shill or something..... just an ignorant fool looking for a rabbit hole in the wrong place!




What is outlandish and stupendous ??

Everyone of the Christians , Zionists , Jews and anyone else who supports this version of the world BELIEVES COMPLETELY that every Arab, Muslim, and probably everyone else mostly Russians , Commies, would do these things , such as :

: Bring bombings upon themselves, Blow themselves up for no reason, Train there babies to have only one reason to live, to kill them, on and on and on forever.............

But no, your heros are DIFFERENT, and you IGNORE the fact that these people are the SAME , the books they read are the SAME,

Problem here, is the same problems of all time, you just have ZERO ability to see that your enemies ALL come from WITHIN...on ALL SIDES, and not more on THAT side, but likely YOUR SIDE!!!!

Amazing stuff to read, I truly feel that your brains will be in serious need of retraining soon, but the ingrained Operating Systems will SELF-DESTRUCT rather than accept your whole lives are based on the beliefs of the same lies you think you are against!



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 09:50 PM
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originally posted by: Shuye
a reply to: SuperFrog

So anyone having a pro-Israeli stand (or should I say anti-Hamas) is all of a sudden a shill?

And all the people who are posting in favorite of the Palestinians, they are ok, right? None of them is getting paid, i'm sure.

You should learn more about (radical) Islam and its ways, they use deception and lies to get what they want and they have a tendency to take things out of proportion. How many people died in Syria in the past week, does anyone know? More people than in Gaza in a month of war. More people died in Syria since the beginning of 2014 than in all Israeli-Palestinian wars in history.

Now where's the condemnation? Oh sorry, Israel is not the one who's doing the bombing so nobody cares.

And you are talking about a media war. Ha.



Sigh, we are just sick and tired of your supporting and pretending right along with Israel that they are a criminal free, God given enterprise that just wants to have Jews live in peace in the territory given to them.

It should not be hard to see, that when a group of people believe a lie that has them act so strongly because of GOD claims, and then becomes prominently a lot like Las Vegas in mindset, that they are not the Droids anyone was looking for.

How about this, stop pretending Hamas or anyone else can get rockets or have any ability to do anything to Israel without Israel knowing about it, and CAUSING IT.

My God total surrounded, blockaded, watched , tormented, but I am supposed to believe that this is all natural and that these tunnels are a shocking surprise.

THOSE TUNNELS, are there so people can GET OUT.

What happens when you totally and fully entrap people, that KNOW they are NEVER getting out, PERIOD.

The last thing they had left, was to tunnel.



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 09:54 PM
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Wow. I think your right
On the money there, and that's pretty messed.



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 09:59 PM
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All this defence for killing the innecent is really EFEN heartless. No sane person could hold these point of views.



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 10:58 PM
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"I fully agree with General Washington, that we must protect this young nation from an insidious influence and impenetration. The menace, gentlemen, is the Jews. In whatever country Jews have settled in any great numbers, they have lowered its moral tone; depreciated its commercial integrity; have segregated themselves and have not been assimilated; have sneered at and tried to undermine the Christian religion upon which that nation is founded by objecting to its restrictions; have built up a state within a state; and when opposed have tried to strangle that country to death financially, as in the case of Spain and Portugal.

"For over 1700 years the Jews have been bewailing their sad fate in that they have been exiled from their homeland, they call Palestine. But, Gentlemen, should the world today give it to them in fee simple, they would at once find some cogent reason for not returning. Why? Because they are vampires, and vampires do not live on vampires. They cannot live only among themselves. They must subsist on Christians and other people not of their race.

"If you do not exclude them from these United States, in this Constitution in less than 200 years they will have swarmed in such great numbers that they will dominate and devour the land, and change our form of government, for which we Americans have shed our blood, given our lives, our substance and jeopardized our liberty.

"If you do not exclude them, in less than 200 years our descendants will be working in the fields to furnish them sustenance, while they will be in the counting houses rubbing their hands. I warn you, Gentlemen, if you do not exclude the Jews for all time, your children will curse you in your graves. Jews, Gentlemen, are Asiatics; let them be born where they will, or how many generations they are away from Asia, they will never be otherwise. Their ideas do not conform to an American's, and will not even though they live among us ten generations. A leopard cannot change its spots.

"Jews are Asiatics, they are a menace to this country if permitted entrance and should be excluded by this Constitution."

"They [the Jews] work more effectively against us, than the enemy's armies. They are a hundred times more dangerous to our liberties and the great cause we are engaged in... It is much to be lamented that each state, long ago, has not hunted them down as pest to society and the greatest enemies we have to the happiness of America." —George Washington

www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com...
edit on 6-8-2014 by Flesh699 because: (no reason given)


That may come from illegitimate sources but I figured it would be good to ponder on here... Here's something else to ponder as well:


DIDEROT, DENIS. 18th century French scholar. His famous ENCYCLOPEDIE, the bible of the pre-revolutionary French "enlightenment," has often been complained of by Jewish writers as 'anti-Semitic.' Some of Diderot's other writings are likewise unfriendly: "And you, angry and brutish people, vile and vulgar men, slaves worthy of the yoke [Talmudism] which you bear ... Go, take back your books and remove yourselves from me. (LA MOISADE) [The Talmud] taught the Jews to steal the goods of Christians, to regard them as savage beasts, to push them over the precipice . . . to kill them with impunity and to utter every morning the most horrible imprecations against them. (JUIFS)

NESTA WEBSTER, in Secret Societies and Subversive Movements, page 370 "The Jewish conception of the Jews as the Chosen People who must eventually rule the world forms indeed the basis of Rabbinical Judaism . . .The Jewish religion now takes its stand on the Talmud rather than on the Bible."

F. TROCASE, in Jewish Austria "No obstacle discourages them; they persevere throughout the world, throughout the centuries, the unity of their race. The Talmud has given them a powerful organization which modern progress has been unable to change. Deep, ineradicable hatred of everything that is not Jewish stimulates them in war which they wage against Christian Society, which is too divided to be able to fight with the necessary energy."

COUNT HELMUTH VON MOLTKE, Prussian general "The Jews form a state, and, obeying their own laws, they evade those of their host country. The Jews always consider an oath regarding a Christian not binding. During the Campaign of 1812 the Jews were spies, they were paid by both sides, they betrayed both sides."

MOHAMMED, in the Koran "Whoever is a friend of a Jew, belong to them, becomes one of them, God cannot tolerate this mean people. The Jews have wandered from divine religion. You must not relent in your work which must show up Jewish deceit."

BACON, FRANCIS. 16th century British writer, politician. In his The New Atlantis, he remarked that Jews "hate the name of Christ and have a secret and innate rancor against the people among whom they live." He also disapproved of non-Jewish usurers as "Judaizers" who would wear "tawny bonnets" like Jews.

LUTHER, MARTIN. 16th century German religious reformer. "They are the real liars and bloodhounds, who have not only perverted and falsified the entire Scriptures from beginning to end and without ceasing with their interpretations. And all of the anxious sighing, longing and hoping of their hearts is directed to the time when some day they would like to deal with us heathen as they dealt with the heathen in Persia at the time of Esther . . . On how they love the book of Esther, which so nicely agrees with their bloodthirsty, revengeful and murderous desire and hope.

1). The sun never did shine on a more bloodthirsty and revengeful people as they, who imagine to be the people of God, and who desire to and think they must murder and crush the heathen. And the foremost undertaking which they expect of their Messiah is that he should slay and murder the whole world with the sword. As they at first demonstrated against us Christians and would like to do now, if they only could; have also tried it often and have been repeatedly struck on their snouts . . . Their breath stinks for the gold and silver of the heathen; since no people under the sun always have been, still are, and always will remain more avaricious than they, as can be noticed in their cursed usury. They also find comfort with this: "When the Messiah comes, He shall take all the gold and silver in the world and distribute it among the Jews."

Continued here: www.biblebelievers.org.au...

If anyone can confirm all these, please do so and share.
edit on 6-8-2014 by Flesh699 because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-8-2014 by Flesh699 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 12:17 AM
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a reply to: SuperFrog

"But the children.." seems like it's been used as a propaganda tactic since the beginning of time. Probably has.

This is war time. It's ugly, it's brutal, and it's tragic. Hamas asked for this.

Israel diplomacy has always been in favor of peace in the region. Surrounded by Muslim nations who wish only to eradicate the Jews. They brought this on themselves. It's akin to the bullied finally standing up to the bully. It is absolutely a shame that there is innocents being killed. But it is not like Hamas is doing their best to keep them safe, the exact opposite in fact.



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 01:58 AM
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As time goes by, picking a side on this conflict becomes harder and harder, however, i do side, still, with Palestine.
Don't get me wrong, at this point, they are both to blame, both sides are in no way innocent, everyone has blood on their hands.
But i think, what we can't forget is who started it, and how. that is the only way you can rationalize and pick a side.
The land that is now Israel was taken by force, the locals had no say in the matter, and once it was taken, people were forced out of their homes, given a "safe haven" (Gaza) to live in...and bombed once they got there.
Once again, both sides are now guilty of something, but only one side started this mess.



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 03:11 AM
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originally posted by: SuperFrog

Why would I be worried about Hamas? Was Hamas a problem before 2006, yet civilians and kids were killed as well.


Yes, in fact, some of us are old enough to remember WAAAY back to the nineties when they added their name to the list of groups strapping bombs to their chests and blowing themselves up in Israeli markets and buses... Right there with the children and everything...

We even remember back to the 70's when the PLO was indiscriminately shelling Jewish settlements. If you can list an instance of Yasser or his pals calling ahead on the phone to warn the settlers and their children to vacate their house, please provide one.

Ever read the Hamas Covenant? You should. It reads like Mein Kampf. Evil Jewish Zionists are responsible for Freemasons, Rotary Clubs, Lions Clubs, et a l. Hell-bent on destroying society. As for Hamas, it "strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine." Doesn't sound like a blueprint for a two-state solution to me.

Israel has shown that it is willing to trade land for peace, when peace is viable. They controlled the whole of the Sinai for almost 20 years before returning it to Egypt in exchange for normalized relations (the same Egyptians who want no part of the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip and refuse to open their gates and border crossings with them also).

You can try to spin this as Israeli racists bent on genocide, but the fact is there have always been Arab members sitting on the Knesset and one out of five Israelis are Arab. They are the Arab residents (and their descendants) who didn't abandon the land and make war on Israel when the first two-state solution was offered. They seem to be getting along just fine. Meanwhile, despite the best and evilest efforts to implement "genocide" on the Palestinians, that population is growing by leaps and bounds. If Israelis are by and large genocidal maniacs, then they are clearly not mass murderers of the most efficient ilk...

Which isn't to say Israel has been blameless. Their response has often been heavy-handed. I'm not sure I would make the same decisions about how aggressively they've pursued their campaigns. Having said that, you don't get many nations willing to put the effort and risk into telling people via leaflets and phone calls that their area is going to come under attack. War is a nasty business. More distantly, you can point to the Zionists terrorists from the 20's-40's. It was just as wrong in then as it is now.

But today this starts and ends with the authorities, such as they are, in Gaza. Hamas needs to stop its campaign of terror, and be responsible for security -- which means enforcing security and stopping terrorism from groups they don't have control over (wink, wink, nudge, nudge). Same applies for Fatah in the West Bank, who is at least making the right noises at the moment.

The only way for this to work is for responsible parties to rein in the crazies. Israel is not going to sit back and take it. They have a very pragmatic approach. "If you won't stop the attacks, we will." I'm not sure I blame them, even if there are incidents I do not approve of. But there has to be security for Israel for a true two-state solution.


So, I said why I am not worried about hamas, in one of discussions I said that instead of this Israel should help Palestine, give them health care, schools, teach them to love life, and you will not have any problems...


How many hospitals and schools could Hamas have built with the tens of millions of dollars worth of concrete and other supplies/labor involved in building the tunnels from Gaza into Israel so that militants could attack Israeli soliders and farmers? If it was so easy to fix all these problems, why did the PA reject Israel's MDA offers for blood units as late as a month ago :/ Why doesn't Israel get any credit for not shutting off the power bill, despite the PA being in arrears to the tune of $525 million? 300 trucks with humanitarian aid (mostly food and medical supplies) went through the gates yesterday. Did you hear that in the news? I'm skeptical that it will buy them even the full 72 hours of the cease-fire, but maybe it will.




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