Scottish Independance & Possible Huge Oil Discovery

a reply to: midicon

Not voting to be run by Brussels? The election that follows? What elections that? Vote yes, you get Europe and no say on the matter. I'd love to vote for independence but that's not whats being offered so that vile commie pug Salmond can go take a run and jump! I don't exactly agree with the current system of making the long term unemployed work for welfare but the fact is there are wasters out there that should be made to starve or at the very least sterilized. The only reason welfare exists is so they don't have to resort to robbery to survive and that includes myself as I'm currently on JSA. I hate the welfare state, it's dominated my life and left me trapped for too many years now. I'd much prefer it be run by private charities as per the view that most Libertarians have.

a reply to: doomguy5000

So someone described as Asian appearance with a local accent was either muslim or east European???

I suspect from your American use of liberal and open carry that you are just here to troll and couldn't point to Glasgow on a map.

Have you got the figures to back up your claim that most rapes are carried out by Muslims or East Europeans yet? Corse nit
because they don't exist. Your are correct that i should not call you a racist. Ill informed bigot is much more accurate.

There is a lot of misinformation or lies on any thread on Scottish independence but most posters at least keep it relavent.

a reply to: ScepticScot

I haven't claimed most rapes are committed by muslims or eastern europeans but obviously you've not been reading the news as of late cuz they're certainly leading the charge when it comes to sexual assault where I'm from. I've lived in Glasgow all my days. Do you live in Glasgow or are you some rich kid from Aberdeenshire? I didn't mention open carry but it's a great idea. Lets sum it up with this video.



You'd rather have her defenseless against rape and home invasion. That is the voice of a liberal, that is the voice of someone completely out of touch with reality, that is the voice of someone who's never had to worry if they'll have enough money to pay the bills at the end of the month. I have nothing in common with you. I'm from the real world. That's why I vote no, that's why I vote UKIP. The yes voters have done more to convince people to vote no than the no campaign. That's hilarious! I'm going to enjoy watching all the bigoted catholic Celtic supporters crumble when the country votes no. Hell it might finally convince them to go back home, since they already have an independent country to live in and the famine is well and truly over.

a reply to: Freeborn
Same for the SW of England, no rioting in these parts and for sure Devon & Cornwall Constabulary breathed a huge sigh of relief because they have less than 20 arresting officers per 100,000 people available at any given time in the summer.
All the 'England burning!' silliness was just the usual media hype, I'm surprised any member of ATS wouldn't realise that.

Considering Scotland after the vote, I hope the result is convincing either way and not a scraped 51%. It would be much better to have an overwhelming majority from a 99% turnout for everyone to be able to move on to the future, regardless of the result.
A scraped result could well result in continuing simmering emotions in the losing party. That can never be good if it is pretty much half the electorate.

a reply to: grainofsand

I know 50%+ is a majority, but I wonder for issues such as this where the implications are so profound whether there should be a higher bar, say 70%. In that way you can guarantee the majority will move forward. A 51% in favour of "yes" will be very, very complicated.

Regards

a reply to: paraphi
I'm not sure about raising the bar above 51% as that is pretty much standard democracy, but I agree that 51% winners either way is not ideal for any nation moving forward.
Wales got their Assembly Government on a 51% vote but the 49% against weren't facing becoming a foreign country so were mostly chilled about it. The question of real independence will of course inspire much more passion for the losing party. I genuinely hope it is a massive turnout and a convincing result, either way, so we can all move on.

a reply to: doomguy5000

There will be an election after independence we will see what the parties have to offer. I don't think Salmond will last too long.

Who knows there may be a call for a referendum on Europe. What Salmond offers is not so appealing for me either.

You sound as though you want real change. How else can you achieve it other than through independence? It is a stepping stone.

You sound bitter...why not use that to effect change?


Nobody should be starved or sterilized we just need to build a better society. I think we can do that.

originally posted by: doomguy5000
I personally don't have a problem with police open carrying albeit if we got our gun rights back too and could open carry. Crime would be slashed and we wouldn't have our women at the mercy of rapists like they have been recently in Glasgow. Albeit the majority of these rapists being Muslim or eastern European. Another reason I'm voting no and will be voting for the UK to get out of the EU completely should we get the chance. Now I'm reading the Palestinian flag will be raised over Glasgow city council. Jeez...

You have supported open carry and made you claim about rape on page 9 of this thread.

As to where i am from, born in a Glasgow high rise. Some if us manage to learn a bit about the world and not blame every thing on minorities. You should try it, might help you get a job.

a reply to: paraphi

In general i would agree that a super majority should be required for constitutional change. However as there is no codified uk constitution and union was a result of a corrupt process 300 years ago then there is no reason to believe. The status quo. Had any more legitimacy than the change proposed.

a reply to: ScepticScot

You have supported open carry and made you claim about rape on page 9 of this thread.

And he's only sixteen posts in...

a reply to: midicon

You said earlier in the thread there are morons everywhere. Nice of him to provide evidence.

a reply to: ScepticScot
I would prefer a 51% Yes vote than a 51% No.
If it Yes then whatever arguments continue in Scotland will have no influence over my life in England after the fine details of Independence have been agreed.
A 51% No vote would disappoint me as the issue will still be boiling under the surface for nationalists and in 10 or 20 years we could be having the same independence discussions all over again. I hope more than anything that this referendum settles it all, and convincingly...regardless of the result.
I am happy to move on with Scotland as housemates or friendly neighbours, whichever they want, but either way I hope we can finally put this issue to bed after September, and move on.

a reply to: grainofsand

Can totally understand you point of view. Unfortunately i think it will be close, probably a narrow no (sadly)

Still over a month to go. Plenty of time for cameron to say something monumentally stupid and push the yes vote.

originally posted by: grainofsand
and in 10 or 20 years we could be having the same independence discussions all over again.

If it is "no" then I would like to see a moritorium on independence referendum going well into the future as these are devisive. I would also like to see England having a more prominent regional government with Westminster seperated-out. Perhaps the English government can move to Winchester, or Liverpool - that would be a real revolution.

In this way the regions can all flourish and accussations of favouritism towards Scotland can be tackled and dealt with.

Regards

a reply to: paraphi
I agree with the idea of a ban for a certain period on calls for independence after a No vote, but with reservations.
If Scotland voted say 99% for the SNP who were campaigning on an independence card for example, who could ignore that.
Equally if the Welsh all voted for Plaid Cymru running on an independence card then such public opinion would have to be listened to.

Maybe a scraped No vote in September could turn out to be good thing for all of us by forcing a wider discussion on how our dysfunctional family can work fairly with each other in the future, a federal union perhaps with the Scots getting their territorial share of oil revenues, I could live with that in a fair mutually agreed deal...England, Wales and N.I. do not survive on Scottish oil revenues as a lamb suckling from it's mother. Something much more fairly arranged between all of us could be made to happen...if we all want it.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: paraphi

a federal union perhaps with the Scots getting their territorial share of oil revenues, I could live with that in a fair mutually agreed deal...England, Wales and N.I. do not survive on Scottish oil revenues as a lamb suckling from it's mother. Something much more fairly arranged between all of us could be made to happen...if we all want it.

The problem here is of regional selfishness and an inclination to forget that we are goverened as a single country. If (for example) Scotland got more because they had oil, then it would be appropriate for them to suffer when the oil runs out. However, if we are goverened fairly then this would not happen.

You could apply this formula to the South East, which is far richer than the rest of the UK. Should they keep it all, or should wealth be spead fairly. I think we all agree fairness and how devisive regional favouritism is.

Regards

a reply to: paraphi
I agree, it is all a can of worms.
I live in SW England and we are as skint and ignored by Westminster as most other regions, but we have the annual summer influx of millions of tourists who spend money here...cash specifically, so that makes up for the rest of the year.
I imagine a good quarter (and more) of the money spent by tourists and foreign language students doesn't go through any books 'the revenue' ever get a look at.

Any federal system will always have some constituent parts who are better off than others, that's life, but for sure there must be some radical solution which could be made to happen where all of us can work together under a common flag as a 'United Something' which is strong enough to fight our shared case in a growingly more confident and power-grabbing EU.

...if the vote is No then I hope we all move on and focus solely on chasing something better than the current situation we are in, together.

a reply to: midicon

Well that is a good point, the problem is Salmond being the left-wing globalist that he is is going to put us in Europe regardless and I can't see any other party being interested in changing that. I'd rather avoid it all together. I'm not bitter I just no whats right and what's right sometimes means being less than politically correct for the want of a better term. There's too much greed in the world to have a better society, that's pie in the sky stuff and to say no-one needs sterilized suggests it's been a while if ever since the you've been in a job centre.

a reply to: ScepticScot

I see, yeah I think the 2nd amendment and concealed and open carry are great. I bet rapists and home invaders have to think twice about committing a crime in somewhere like Arizona. Here they can go ahead knowing the victim is unarmed and defenseless. I'm not blaming everything on minorities there's plenty of our own brand of scum walking the streets, I just hate Muslims and consider them sub-human savages that should be eradicated from the face of the earth, as far the eastern Europeans are concerned they shouldn't even be here. Who's Europe to tell us how open our borders should be? I'm sorry they were born in some inbred pikey loser country but we have our own people to look after here and we certainly don't want their rapists. Govanhill used to be a nice place to live. Coming from a high rise you should know better, unless you're a criminal yourself and the thought of people being able to shoot you is terrifying. As far as I'm concerned ill be back in education next week and should be able to grab something part time to support myself soon after. I mean I could have been working sooner by going to work in a call centre, but I respect people in prison more than people who work in those places.

a reply to: doomguy5000

You need to keep it to topic.

Most people could not give a duck about the second amendment, rape and "open carry" in a discussion about the Scottish referendum. Yawn.

Regards