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Paedophile snared as Google scans Gmail for images of child abuse

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posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 09:32 AM
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pedophile or not, im sure people would use their emails to store pictures of they're wives, or particularity something that is of age and decent, now whos not to say that all pictures just beccome availible and you know some random person who is collecting data on people is gonna download a ton of them and put them on the internet,
i understand that they wanna do a good thing, but who isnt to say its just a way that they can "get away" with it
arstechnica.com...




posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 11:57 AM
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originally posted by: dashen
a reply to: switchqm8
So what does this mean exactly?
I can set up an anonymous account and spam hundreds of people with CP And have them all arrested?


That's the problem.

I used to run a server farm years ago

Many times servers, accounts, and parts of hard drives on servers were hacked by outside sources, and used for storing, distribution, and trafficking CP, without anyone's knowledge for months.

People can get framed for CP easily, and it will cost them 10's of thousands to maintain their innocence.

I have seen it first hand multiple times, and it ruined one person I know financially. Yes he was proven innocent, but he was innocent to begin with, and was the victim of an unruly hacker.



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 02:50 PM
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a reply to: Agent_USA_Supporter

That one is but they probably slipped in the terrible spying stuff that bill had into the one for online bullying & sexting. I can't remember



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 04:30 PM
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a reply to: Darkblade71

I am sorry to hear you're a victim of abuse. Abuse in any form should be fought, we are not in disagreement.

But not "by all means". If the cure is worse than the illness you're better off not curing the illness (or use another cure). And scanning files without having a reasonable suspicion that they might contain illegal content is a form of abuse too: it violates the privacy of the owners of mailboxes.

Now, it is tempting to say "but the bigger evil are these child molesters and we will get rid of them by scanning everybodies mailboxes". I don't think so. Firstly people are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. You don't go around the block busting in on folks homes because "they might be criminals". That would be a gross neglect of the privacy that people are entitled to. My previous example of putting cameras in houses is another control that is vastly oversized for the risk it helps control.

Secondly any CP trader or producer that has more iQ than a jar of marbles (and some do) will not use his/her own mailbox, he will use a hacked box. Hacking Gmail or Hotmail boxes is easy as most users do not use very strong passwords.

Now, picture this: one day a CP trader hacks your Google account - invading your privacy - and uses it to distribute CP. Google's fine software detects you are trading CP. And so, a set of broad shouldered officers come knocking on your door. I can't even imagine what hell you would go through, desperately trying to prove your innocence, whilst every second of the abuse you had to suffer from in your youth will be relived as a "bonus".

That should never happen and certainly not to you or anybody else ever confronted with sexual abuse. Hence, scanning other folks data without reasonable suspicion should be illegal.



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 06:16 PM
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a reply to: ForteanOrg

It is a touchy subject for sure with me.

I may be blinded by my own thinking sometimes.

I do understand that one can be easily framed. I do understand that the entire search and privacy issue can be abused, and has been for a while,I do understand these things...

I just have no sympathy for a pedophile. They deserve what they get.
It is a no win though, you are right.

It is a slippery slope.

Don't get me wrong, I do not want anyone to give up their rights to privacy, but when I see that they are trying to catch these predators, it is very hard not to cheer.





posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 06:16 PM
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You know what guys. Screw your liberties and your freedoms. Can you even FATHOM what it is like to be molested, raped, by strangers, families, friends, completely incapable of defending yourself, helpless. Old men touching on you, inside of you, and on and on.
I'm starting to believe the scum of the earth reside here on ATS. This forum is hitting all time lows

SCREW YOUR LIBERTIES AND YOUR FREEDOMS IF IT MEANS SOME INNOCENT LITTLE BOY OR GIRL HAS TO HAVE THEIR LIFE UTTERLY DESTROYED AND SCARRED FOR EVERY SECOND OF THE REST OF THEIR EXISTENCE ON THIS EARTH.

Do you think you could handle being held down helplessly while the scummiest men of the earth, possibly your father, insert their penis inside of you until he orgasms, and display it for the world to see?

Do you understand this is the price others have to pay for your freedoms and liberties that you value so much?

Oh and just to add a little something, your free Gmail service IS NOT entitled to privacy. So what you are defending, in weight of pedophiles throughout the world, is not even existant.

How do you feel now?
edit on 6-8-2014 by algag1129 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 06:28 PM
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a reply to: Vasa Croe


originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: CraftBuilder
So when the software flags a picture that my wife sent me because it thought it might be CP does some random Google employee get to see the pic to check and confirm it? And will it end up on the internet like so many airport scanner pics?


No...these images are not scanned by Google employees....that would take millions of man hours. They are scanned and checked against a database of files on a high volume high speed super computer with a LOT of attached storage. If they flag child porn through the image search then it will be reviewed. I have never seen his algorithm get a hit wrong except for when the database was being built though I have seen it miss some. That is most likely corrected at this point.


I would assume that this database keeps a set of data points or hashes of the original images, rather than the images themselves. Otherwise Google would be guilty of CP possession themselves. The data points would have to be recorded such that there was sufficient data to identify a particular image, of part of an image, without being sufficient to recreate the image itself.

Also, wouldn't it be necessary for a human to ultimately view the image if it were not found in the database? Presumably that would only happen if there was a high confidence level of CP based on the algorithm.


Dex



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 06:29 PM
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originally posted by: algag1129
Do you understand this is the price others have to pay for your freedoms and liberties that you value so much?


All of a sudden I'm responsible (because of my alleged freedom and liberty) for the horrors of child sex abuse?

Nice try, but I don't think so.

The responsibility lies with the molester, not the innocent citizen. Everyone is responsible for their own actions, and for the consequences of those actions. (Or, in a sane world, should be.)



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 08:06 PM
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originally posted by: Stuyvesant

originally posted by: algag1129
Do you understand this is the price others have to pay for your freedoms and liberties that you value so much?


All of a sudden I'm responsible (because of my alleged freedom and liberty) for the horrors of child sex abuse?

Nice try, but I don't think so.

The responsibility lies with the molester, not the innocent citizen. Everyone is responsible for their own actions, and for the consequences of those actions. (Or, in a sane world, should be.)



YES. You are responsible for fighting against the protection of innocent children being raped by savages, you need to come to terms with that man. You are spewing complete BS. What is the criminal justice system for if we are only responsible for our own actions. What a bunch of BS, good luck when you are standing before your judgement day. Good luck explaining that one.

With your logic, there should be no policing, everyone is responsible for themselves. You are COMPLETELY in denial right now

You are in complete opposition of the prevention of child molestation if it costs you an illusionary freedom that you do not even have. FACT.
edit on 6-8-2014 by algag1129 because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-8-2014 by algag1129 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 12:35 AM
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Firstly, YEAH for getting another pedophile off the streets.

With that said, I just assume anything I type into a computer is not safe from prying eyes, especially email. It's not something I enjoy admitting, but it is an unfortunate fact of the world we live in now.



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 01:56 AM
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I do not work for Google, but I have subcontracted for the other search engine that starts with a "B". While I do believe that both have technology that can filter such pictures. I can say without a doubt people have more to worry about than some software going through photos. I've routinely worked on labeling the intents of personal private emails. For a long time such information such as social security numbers, birth dates...(Just about everything needed to steal an identity AND we were not background checked to do this job) were left in for any worker to see. They have now since decided it would be a great idea to conceal numbers in personal emails. That said, I can confirm that when you send an email, the recipient is not the only one reading - and we are NOT just looking for kiddie porn. To be honest, I'm not always entirely sure what we are looking for.

We have also had access to chats and of course anything one puts into a search engine. We do have options to click if the search is considered kiddie porn material. I know Google is pretty much set up the same way as I have friends that work there doing the same sorts of things that I am doing. All of this invasion of privacy is just being passed off, they may be stating it is software doing all of the scanning, but that simply isn't the case 100% of the time. It is more human based, but of course they aren't going to tell the public this because they would be justifiably upset. Don't think I need to tell anyone here, but nothing put out on the internet is private.



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 02:47 AM
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originally posted by: dashen
a reply to: switchqm8
So what does this mean exactly?
I can set up an anonymous account and spam hundreds of people with CP And have them all arrested?


Basically... yes.

2nd



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 06:12 AM
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originally posted by: algag1129
You know what guys. Screw your liberties and your freedoms. [...]
How do you feel now?


Quite puzzled, actually. You suggest you're against abuse, more specifically against child-abuse. But it seems you feel you are free to abuse me at will - by writing unnecessary foul language. You are free to abuse me by yelling at me. You are free to abuse me by insulting my intelligence by pretending I don't know what child abuse is and so you need to provide examples. You are free to abuse me by being all in favour of my mailboxes and datafiles being scanned for "illegal content" by "some authority". Indeed, you live your motto: "screw your liberties and your freedoms!"

If by any motto at all, in this context I'd go for "Don't reduce evil by adding more evil."



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 06:19 AM
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Google is the NSA and spys on all our emails and the excuses are always the same.

I know lets put CCTVs in everyones home to stop domestic crimes and make everone wear google glasses to help stop litter bugs but don't ask to see the bank acounts of your politicians because thats a national secret.

My privacy has a price and Google is nothing but evil



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 09:31 AM
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originally posted by: ForteanOrg

originally posted by: algag1129
You know what guys. Screw your liberties and your freedoms. [...]
How do you feel now?


Quite puzzled, actually. You suggest you're against abuse, more specifically against child-abuse. But it seems you feel you are free to abuse me at will - by writing unnecessary foul language. You are free to abuse me by yelling at me. You are free to abuse me by insulting my intelligence by pretending I don't know what child abuse is and so you need to provide examples. You are free to abuse me by being all in favour of my mailboxes and datafiles being scanned for "illegal content" by "some authority". Indeed, you live your motto: "screw your liberties and your freedoms!"

If by any motto at all, in this context I'd go for "Don't reduce evil by adding more evil."


Oh my goodness. I have abused you. Wow, I'm sorry sir. You have no idea what abuse is. Child molestation, that's abuse.

Your post is unbelievable wake up to reality. I don't know where your weirdos on this webpage come from. Well let me clarify something for you. I am against the abuse of innocent helpless children. I am not against the supposed forum name-calling abuse of weirdos protecting their supposed non existent freedoms of mailing child pornography or whatever other private substances through Google owned free delivery service.

Is that a little more clear to you, do you understand now?

This forum is dying because people think they are smarter than everyone and everything and are entitled to everything at the cost of anything. You will rationalize the protection of child abusers in order to protect your non existent freedom from a free email service that auto scans for child pornography, and you will rationalize it just to prove you can write a better post than someone else by claiming you yourself were just abused in a forum.



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 12:26 PM
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originally posted by: algag1129

originally posted by: Stuyvesant

originally posted by: algag1129
Do you understand this is the price others have to pay for your freedoms and liberties that you value so much?


All of a sudden I'm responsible (because of my alleged freedom and liberty) for the horrors of child sex abuse?

Nice try, but I don't think so.

The responsibility lies with the molester, not the innocent citizen. Everyone is responsible for their own actions, and for the consequences of those actions. (Or, in a sane world, should be.)



YES. You are responsible for fighting against the protection of innocent children being raped by savages, you need to come to terms with that man. You are spewing complete BS. What is the criminal justice system for if we are only responsible for our own actions. What a bunch of BS, good luck when you are standing before your judgement day. Good luck explaining that one.

With your logic, there should be no policing, everyone is responsible for themselves. You are COMPLETELY in denial right now

You are in complete opposition of the prevention of child molestation if it costs you an illusionary freedom that you do not even have. FACT.


I'm *not* saying society does not need governance, policing, a criminal justice system, etc. On the contrary, I definitely think society needs wise governance, justice... and, freedom.

Freedom is not "license." Freedom inherently means taking responsibility for one's actions.

What I *am* saying is that people are ultimately responsible for their own actions. You cannot escape this principle, even though much of society tries to.

(And maybe if we examined that idea a little closer, we could start making progress - the intellectual breakage of the link between cause & effect in our society might have something to do with the mess we find ourselves in. But that would be a topic for a different thread and would cover a gamut of social & political issues.)

The molester is the one responsible for molesting.

If I walked in on someone molesting one of my kids, I would likely kill that molester. Then, I would be responsible for that person's death. It wouldn't be the NRA's fault; it wouldn't be the gun lobby's fault. The molester's family can't sue Smith & Wesson for it. *I* would own that one - that molester's death would be on *my own* hands and no one else's.

You said that other people (innocent children) are paying the price for *my* freedoms and liberties. No. The innocent children are victims at the hands of those committing the abuse.

You can't say that Joe Citizen is guilty of aiding and abetting child abuse because he didn't pay his taxes and therefore his taxes didn't grease the wheels of the societal system and therefore didn't support the criminal justice system and therefore the criminal justice system somehow failed to catch the pervert. It just doesn't work that way. That's a delusional deflection of blame.

By your reasoning, we should all just be put in cages. That way, no one ever gets molested. Let's just take away everyone's freedoms until the world is crime free. What a great freakin' idea. Please.

Look, I HATE child abuse, whether it is physical, psychological, or sexual. I'd love to see it completely eradicated from society. In fact, I have several children whom I love dearly and I would give my own life to protect them. This is an issue I feel strongly about; but I'm not about to go blaming innocent people for all the terrible crap in the world. Nor am I going to sit quietly here at my computer and read your tyrannical notions and not refute them.

There is much that is sick, disturbing, polluted, impure, and corrupt about this world. Yes, we should be concerned about that, and work towards making the world a better place. But not at the expense of freedom, and not to the tune of some psychotic mindframe that would eliminate the linkage between cause and effect.

What is the "illusionary freedom" I am supposed to be giving up so that child abuse will never happen again? Please be specific.

I mean, come on, really: The governement has *already* had free reign with surveilling everyone's data - financial, email, internet usage, phone calls, etc. - without anyone's consent and with little knowledge of the immensity of scope of their prying eyes - and has been doing so for YEARS. Has *that* stopped child abuse? No.

I am waiting to be enlightened and do a grand deed for the sake of the innocent children. I just need you to tell me exactly how *I* am to blame for some kid a thousand miles away getting abused, and how *I* can give up some alleged freedom (that I don't really have anyway) that will make everything better...
edit on 7-8-2014 by Stuyvesant because: grammar



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 01:58 PM
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What I mean by your "illusionary freedoms" is that you have no freedom with Google email. You somehow believe that it is private and you can do whatever you like with their free email. You can't. And with their free service to you, of which you own no freedom, they have found a way to counter life shattering child abuse.

Now what's unclear about that? Why are you trying to fight it. It's a good thing, can we leave it at that? Because maybe we are all only responsible for our own actions, and we are not responsible for defending others left helpless as you claim (good luck on your judgement day explaining that you did not desire the prevention of molestation of defenseless innocent abandoned children because it violated a freedom you believe you had but didn't ever have nor shouldn't have) but a way has been found by Google, whom provides you a free email service of which is not a freedom to you, to help others whom DESPERATELY need it.

Help thy neighbor. Not everyone can defend themselves from "people responsible for their own actions". People need help. You're off track in life man.

My logic, it does not say we should be locked in cages. My logic says Googles child pedophilia prevention program is great and shouldn't be hampered by people like you who perhaps feel some insecurities and somehow believe Google just invaded their freedom.

Now are you man enough to admit that maybe your mindset is off a bit, or are you going to rebuttal and defend your beliefs that you should offer no help to the helpless because they, and their abusers are responsible for their own actions.
edit on 7-8-2014 by algag1129 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 04:38 PM
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originally posted by: algag1129
Oh my goodness. I have abused you. Wow, I'm sorry sir. You have no idea what abuse is. Child molestation, that's abuse.


It certainly is, we are not in disagreement there.

But using foul language is a form of abuse too. Attacking people instead of their arguments is abuse. Invading peoples privacy by spying on them is abuse. Stealing information from people is abuse. Using the information to blackmail people into wrong behaviour is abuse. There are many types and forms of abuse and the simple fact YOU feel that one type of abuse is far worse than many others does not justify the other types of abuse. We should fight ALL types of abuse.


Your post is unbelievable wake up to reality. I don't know where your weirdos on this webpage come from.


This is another example of abuse: you're attacking the messenger, not the message. And really, if you feel "we" are all "weirdos" (and assuming you feel you should not flock together with weirdos) why on earth do you visit ATS then.. I mean, come on, just study the front page for 10 seconds. Monsters, UFO's, political twaddle, ghosts, conspiracies, child-abuse discussions that don't go your way - it can't get much "weirder" than that, can it?


Well let me clarify something for you. I am against the abuse of innocent helpless children. I am not against the supposed forum name-calling abuse of weirdos protecting their supposed non existent freedoms of mailing child pornography or whatever other private substances through Google owned free delivery service.


Your wording suggests that you see me as a "weirdo" that is in favour of child molestation. You deliberately paint this picture of me, so my arguments are not heard. It's an old political trick, used by those that are out of arguments. You are clearly out of arguments.


This forum is dying because people think they are smarter than everyone and everything and are entitled to everything at the cost of anything.


Yes. You quite accurately describe yourself, it seems.


You will rationalize the protection of child abusers in order to protect your non existent freedom from a free email service that auto scans for child pornography, and you will rationalize it just to prove you can write a better post than someone else by claiming you yourself were just abused in a forum.


Please stop suggesting that I'm in favour of child abuse because I feel abused by things that are irrelevant in YOUR opinion. They aren't in mine. And yes, we discuss by writing posts in here and as in any discussion, the guy that has the better speaking / writing skills has an advantage. But even if he were Shakespeare Himself: if using wrong arguments he will not win the argument.

Again: you can't fight evil by adding more evil What you consider to be "minor forms of abuse" (like allowing Google to scan 'their own' mailboxes) may actually BE the bigger abuse. It invades the privacy of millions. Now, the fact that the consequences are minor in one case where they are SEVERE in the other may seem relevant, but actually it is not. It starts by forcing you to be able to show a passport, then you need to allow a bunch of geeks to study your pesonal data, then you need to agree that you can be put in jail without ever being judged, next thing you know you are summoned to go to your execution for the crime of turning 60. These things cumulate and so yes, we should fight minor abuse with the same vigor as we fight child molestation.



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 06:31 PM
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a reply to: algag1129




What I mean by your "illusionary freedoms" is that you have no freedom with Google email. You somehow believe that it is private and you can do whatever you like with their free email. You can't. And with their free service to you, of which you own no freedom, they have found a way to counter life shattering child abuse.


No, I don't believe that it is private. No, I don't believe I can do whatever I like with their free email. Where are all these accusations coming from?? I never claimed such a thing. Heck, I don't even use Gmail.

You sure hold a high opinion of Google. I'm glad you are happy with Google's efforts to counter child abuse.

Let me ask you a question unrelated to Google and email: Do you believe child porn/child abuse is so abhorrent that you would, if you had the authority, authorize the FBI to search every computer's hard-drive in the USA?




Help thy neighbor. Not everyone can defend themselves from "people responsible for their own actions". People need help.


I never said we shouldn't help people. I think defending defenseless people (especially children) is good. What I was trying to point out in my initial post to you (which maybe you misunderstood) was that those victims who need help were not violated by people who desire more privacy and rue all the surveillance - which is what it sounded like (to me) that you were saying. Those people (like me) are just as innocent as the child that got abused. Our right to privacy isn't what causes or enables sex crimes against children. People who desire privacy are not criminals. The right to privacy is, or ought to be, real.

Maybe I misunderstood you. If I did, I apologize.




Now are you man enough to admit that maybe your mindset is off a bit, or are you going to rebuttal and defend your beliefs that you should offer no help to the helpless because they, and their abusers are responsible for their own actions.


I'm man enough to tell you that I think you're:

1. Over-reacting
2. Ascribing words to my posts that I never typed
3. Not following the concept I was trying to convey of "being responsible for one's own actions."

You know, I really don't want to argue with you over this. Child abuse (in all its forms) makes me very sad. Why don't we just agree there, and do what we can to help those who need help. I'm totally with you there.

I guess my only caveat is, "doing what I can to help" ought to be up to me. It shouldn't be imposed upon me by someone else.

I don't think eradicating child abuse is going to be accomplished by a pervasive, invasive, surveillance-happy police state. Children were being molested & raped long before any of this technology arrived. Muhammad (of Islam fame) consumated his marriage to Aisha when she was 9 years old (and when he was 53). This pedophile is the revered "prophet" and figurehead of a religion with 1.6 billion followers.

A lot of people say, "All this government surveillance is fine with me, I have nothing to hide." That'll work okay only as long as what they are doing remains legal and socially-acceptable. Laws and social moral attitudes change. That's one of the reasons all this surveillance can be dangerous.

But don't worry, instead of laws becoming more strict -- and a consequent surveillance dragnet falls, arresting anyone scrapbooking, knitting, or dissenting on internet discussion boards -- what will probably happen (if you look at societal trends) is that current laws, such as prohibitions on pedophilia/child pornography will become less strict. Children will be granted consensual status, and autonomy from parental oversight and obligation.

60 years ago, homosexuals were mentally-disordered, according to the law. Now, most of the Western world sees homosexuality as a legitimate and legal lifestyle. 60 years from now.... maybe some other currently-defined "disorder" will get re-defined.
edit on 7-8-2014 by Stuyvesant because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 07:25 PM
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originally posted by: ForteanOrg

originally posted by: algag1129
Oh my goodness. I have abused you. Wow, I'm sorry sir. You have no idea what abuse is. Child molestation, that's abuse.


It certainly is, we are not in disagreement there.

But using foul language is a form of abuse too. Attacking people instead of their arguments is abuse. Invading peoples privacy by spying on them is abuse. Stealing information from people is abuse. Using the information to blackmail people into wrong behaviour is abuse. There are many types and forms of abuse and the simple fact YOU feel that one type of abuse is far worse than many others does not justify the other types of abuse. We should fight ALL types of abuse.


Your post is unbelievable wake up to reality. I don't know where your weirdos on this webpage come from.


This is another example of abuse: you're attacking the messenger, not the message. And really, if you feel "we" are all "weirdos" (and assuming you feel you should not flock together with weirdos) why on earth do you visit ATS then.. I mean, come on, just study the front page for 10 seconds. Monsters, UFO's, political twaddle, ghosts, conspiracies, child-abuse discussions that don't go your way - it can't get much "weirder" than that, can it?


Well let me clarify something for you. I am against the abuse of innocent helpless children. I am not against the supposed forum name-calling abuse of weirdos protecting their supposed non existent freedoms of mailing child pornography or whatever other private substances through Google owned free delivery service.


Your wording suggests that you see me as a "weirdo" that is in favour of child molestation. You deliberately paint this picture of me, so my arguments are not heard. It's an old political trick, used by those that are out of arguments. You are clearly out of arguments.


This forum is dying because people think they are smarter than everyone and everything and are entitled to everything at the cost of anything.


Yes. You quite accurately describe yourself, it seems.


You will rationalize the protection of child abusers in order to protect your non existent freedom from a free email service that auto scans for child pornography, and you will rationalize it just to prove you can write a better post than someone else by claiming you yourself were just abused in a forum.


Please stop suggesting that I'm in favour of child abuse because I feel abused by things that are irrelevant in YOUR opinion. They aren't in mine. And yes, we discuss by writing posts in here and as in any discussion, the guy that has the better speaking / writing skills has an advantage. But even if he were Shakespeare Himself: if using wrong arguments he will not win the argument.

Again: you can't fight evil by adding more evil What you consider to be "minor forms of abuse" (like allowing Google to scan 'their own' mailboxes) may actually BE the bigger abuse. It invades the privacy of millions. Now, the fact that the consequences are minor in one case where they are SEVERE in the other may seem relevant, but actually it is not. It starts by forcing you to be able to show a passport, then you need to allow a bunch of geeks to study your pesonal data, then you need to agree that you can be put in jail without ever being judged, next thing you know you are summoned to go to your execution for the crime of turning 60. These things cumulate and so yes, we should fight minor abuse with the same vigor as we fight child molestation.


I will no longer reply to you because I see now that you come here to argue, and only to argue. You will look for the most minute thing, such as that I abused you. You will pick an argument out of thin air. The op has more substance than you. You solely seek argument, I'll no longer acknowledge you.



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