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We are ALL smokers now!

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posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 09:26 PM
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a reply to: OpinionatedB

OpinatedB

Here is a study of letters to the editor that were examined by anti-tobacco researchers in order to make recommendations on how such letters may be written to be more "effective"

cphss.wustl.edu...




In light of the importance of media advocacy in general and LTEs in particular, we have two primary recommendations for advancing tobacco policy. First, tobacco control advocates must begin to use narrative rather than relying so heavily on didactic approaches. Recently, narrative approaches (e.g., stories, testimonials) have been cited as important alternatives to the conventional, didactic approaches when trying to reach audiences (Rosenthal, 2003; Slater, 2002; Slater et al., 2003). For example, instead of presenting numbers related to secondhand smoke in an LTE, a writer could write about being a mother, concerned to take her child into a smoky restaurant, or about a friend struggling with tobacco-related disease. Second, tobacco control advocates should capture the attention of their local policymakers through the use of words that convey a sense of power, such as voter, constituent , or majority , because they imply that the writer has ultimate control, come election time. Overall, it is important for tobacco control advocates to recognize the power of strategic media advocacy.


These people are well organized and they are not kidding around!

Tired of Control Freaks




posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 09:27 PM
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a reply to: TDawgRex

you sare posting in the wrong thread!

This thread started as a discussion on how lobbyiests are trying to tax soda and then use the money to further their campaigns of demonization of the population.

Tired of Control Freaks



posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 09:31 PM
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a reply to: wtf2008

Hell, I made two posts in this thread, talking about what other people brought up and were discussing LONG before I showed up... and suddenly I am being targetted as the person in the wrong somehow.

Yeah, its not me, but somehow my name comes up constantly - because I posted twice and joined into the discussion that was BEING discussed.

That said, sure obesity is a problem in this country.... should it be targeted? I don't think fat people are criminals, but education is important to change what is happening to the ever expanding American waistline - which comes from cheap processed foods.

Americans are consumers, we have a consumer culture here, and we have consumed ourselves into bad health. Is it my business what someone else eats? No, not unless they want it to be.... but I don't think education about cooking and healthy foods is a bad thing either.

Can anything be taken too far? Yes! It can.... that includes what others consider good AND bad. I don't think the government should concern itself with what people eat, BUT, because there was some concern for good nutrition, diseases like pellagra don't exist in this country anymore - and no one dies from it now.

So there is a balance to be had that CAN be a good thing. I personally prefer smaller government, and less intrusion, but I can see some benefit to some measure of government oversight - as was the case with pellagra.

The new poor people's disease in this country, is obesity... I don't mind education programs in the least because of that. I think taxing fatty foods (or anything technically bad for you) is an abuse of power, and in that I cannot disagree with the OP.



posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 09:32 PM
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originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: TDawgRex

you sare posting in the wrong thread!

This thread started as a discussion on how lobbyiests are trying to tax soda and then use the money to further their campaigns of demonization of the population.

Tired of Control Freaks


Yea, you're correct. But it does tally along with that other thread, not even to a degree. But rather the long term.

It's all about sin tax isn't it?



posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 09:35 PM
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a reply to: OpinionatedB

NO - you are NOT being blamed. But talking to you allows me to present the facts. The fact that these campaigners are ruthless, well-organized and capable of using propaganda to "frame the issue"

Did you read the reply I posted showing the "study" that was done to determine how best to write letters to the media?

I apologise if I made you feel like you were blamed.

Tired of Control Freaks



posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 09:38 PM
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a reply to: TDawgRex

Not just the sin tax TDawgRes - its also about lawsuits against target industries. Its about control of politics. Its about people usurping government powers to impose their will. Its about marketing of Big Pharma products. But in the end, you are correct.

Its about the money. Despite 60 years of anti-tobacco and billions of tax dollars spent on these campaigns, have you noticed how much "healthier" the population is than it was 60 years ago?

Notice how they slipped directly from anti-tobacco to anti-obesity without barely taking a breath. Apparently despite the fact that baby boomers are living past their 80s - we are still not healthy enough!

Tired of Control Freaks



posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 09:41 PM
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a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

Firstly, if anyone on this thread is acting like a control freak, you should first ask yourself that question of your own behaviour.

The threads opening post talks of obesity and it's cost on a nation's healthcare system. It's also posted in the Medical and Healthcare forum. If you were aiming for a politics only slant then you got the wrong forum.

That said, the politics of a nation affects it's health, from food policy to education. The food policies should be in favour of the public's health, same for education and healthy lifestyle choice options.

Therefore, discussions on preventing obesity are on topic and a natural progression. Herbs and spices are known for preventing certain diseases and for general good health, in addition to being useful when eating fresh healthy food.

As for your accusations, anti smoking campaigns are obviously good, as are anti obesity campaigns.

I already said that taxing people wasn't the answer.

I also said people in the UK were healthier, a statistical fact, during WWII because of rationing. I didn't say anything about bringing it back.

Sounds like you need to refrain from making personal attacks, making false accusations and forcing your opinion of how people should discuss a thread topic.

Whoever ''Rachael Ray'' is, presumably just another attempt at name calling. I guess it's similar to being accused by Americans of being an ''Alex Jones'' follower. I know of neither, but hey if some people can't see past their USA centric goggles that isn't my problem.

As for calling me a shill, go read T&C, same for straw man arguments.



And yes - OpinatedB - although I realize that you are likely innocent in your responses and intent, I can't quite say the same for the Absolute Truth. Yes - people are paid to post on websites to make it appear as though the majority of the public supports these campaigns. They are also requested to write letters to newspapers and politicians to project the same image!

Not only does he/she support the whole anti-smoking thing - she would like to bring back rationing!!!! Note how quickly she got into the "rachael ray thing"

edit on 4-8-2014 by theabsolutetruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 09:41 PM
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originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: OpinionatedB

OpinatedB

Here is a study of letters to the editor that were examined by anti-tobacco researchers in order to make recommendations on how such letters may be written to be more "effective"

cphss.wustl.edu...




In light of the importance of media advocacy in general and LTEs in particular, we have two primary recommendations for advancing tobacco policy. First, tobacco control advocates must begin to use narrative rather than relying so heavily on didactic approaches. Recently, narrative approaches (e.g., stories, testimonials) have been cited as important alternatives to the conventional, didactic approaches when trying to reach audiences (Rosenthal, 2003; Slater, 2002; Slater et al., 2003). For example, instead of presenting numbers related to secondhand smoke in an LTE, a writer could write about being a mother, concerned to take her child into a smoky restaurant, or about a friend struggling with tobacco-related disease. Second, tobacco control advocates should capture the attention of their local policymakers through the use of words that convey a sense of power, such as voter, constituent , or majority , because they imply that the writer has ultimate control, come election time. Overall, it is important for tobacco control advocates to recognize the power of strategic media advocacy.


These people are well organized and they are not kidding around!

Tired of Control Freaks


Yep, it's a textbook in Exaggeration.

But it was created as counter to Big Tobacco's policy of denial.

Both side were/are fighting dirty.

With socialized medicine all means need to be brought to bear in fighting disease if ever the medical industry is able to treat all those who become ill.

If society is going to rely on the government to pay to heal the sick, then society must do it's share to stay healthy and the government must do whatever it can to keep people that way, including taxing destructive things.

We can't have it both ways.



posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 09:49 PM
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a reply to: Psynic

So you want to hand over ownership of your very body to the government in exchange for health care paid for by taxpayers????

All I can say - is those that would have safety and liberty will end up with neither!

It isn't enough that I foot the bill for my health care - just because I give the money to government to pay for health care for all - doesn't mean I am not paying for it.

I say - bring the whole rotten thing to the ground. My personal liberty is not so easily bought!

Tired of Control Freaks



posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 09:58 PM
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a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

The problem is created by these corporations - in part, and by us the consumer, in part.

Big Tobacco lied to everyone, absolutely 100% faked studies, and WANTED nothing more than to get us addicted. The answer to that was people going absolutely to the opposite side of the fence, and exaggerating studies and trying to make it harder to support the addiction.

Both sides in that were wrong... but first of all big tobacco shouldn't have been allowed to lie in the first place. And believe it or not, they did LIE to all of us, the consumer. Why? So we would continue to consume!

Big pharma doesn't WANT us healthy- the answer to that is education!

just living to be 80 because you are on every drug known to man is not good... living to be 80 without the need for those drugs, now THAT is what would be great! I'm not one of them because I have a disease of the sympathetic nervous system, so I will take medicine for quality of life til the day I die.... but if anyone out there doesn't have to take pills every day, and can have quality of life til they are in old age?

I personally think that would be great! The only way to go about that one, and stop the dependance on big pharma, is education.

I don't think government should control us, but I don't think corporations should be able to either!!!
edit on 4-8-2014 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 10:00 PM
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a reply to: theabsolutetruth
##SNIPPED##

Lets discuss the real topic - Is it governments place to intrude on private lives in the manner represented by the anti-tobacco and anti-obesity campaigns?

This is government - they can't balance a budget, they are corruptible, they can't manage a simple public works project without going over budge, over time and with less than optimal results. They kill people. they destroy lives for no good reason.

Do we really believe that they are competent enough to control our persons?

Look at the "butter vs margarine" scandal, where we were encouraged to eat hydrogenated fats instead of natural fats. That advice continued for over 20 years. Now they tell - oops sorry but we made a mistake - so how many heart attacks and how many people died as a result of their "mistake" And is anyone actually being held responsible?

These people hand out advice like candy and often the advice is based on hidden motivations.

So why don't we just end this debacle. If you wish to be slave to the government, lets just go all the way shall we? How about if our paychecks and assets are controlled and managed by the government and we just get enough of an allowance to buy necessities. We eat what they want, we train when and how they want, we socialize and indulge ourselves only with government approved activities.

Instead of considering the government as public servants - lets just call them "master" and be done with it.

Tired of Control Freaks
edit on Tue Aug 5 2014 by DontTreadOnMe because: We expect civility and decorum within all topics.



posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 10:03 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 10:17 PM
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a reply to: OpinionatedB

OpinionatedB

Please be honest with yourself and stop blaming Big Tobacco for all your problems. You knew about every known and suspected problem with tobacco since at least the 1960s. That was over 50 years ago and you are still smoking. You have just announced your decision to quit - what stopped you from quitting 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 30 years ago etc etc.

At its peak - 50 % of the population smoked and 50 % did not. You were the one who bought the tobacco, lit it and inhaled the smoke and no one held a gun to your head to make you do it.

Tired of Control Freaks



posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 10:36 PM
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a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

I said part of the problem was in consumers, and part was big tobacco. I never said big tobacco held a gun to my head, I said big tobacco lied to people about what they were putting in those smokes, and how bad it was for you.

While it was just becoming known that smoking was bad for you, as you said... many of those studies were exaggerated, and big tobacco had their counter argument always - leaving the consumer not really knowing for a long darn time.

I didn't quit a LONG time ago, because I couldn't. I was addicted hon... I STILL am. By the time I realized beyond any shadow of a doubt that what I was doing was really pretty harmful... quitting wasn't something easy.

I tried patches, I tried medicines, I tried cold turkey... I tried and failed more times than I can count. Now, after smoking 30 years, I have no choice now... I have to figure out a way. It's beyond the beyond now...

That is on me... my part was picking it up, and letting people lie to me... and allowing myself to get so addicted.... the people lying to me... that was on them. They have some measure of culpability in that too. Are they different than any other business just trying to "sell" that business? No. Car manufacturers want you to purchase their cars, and so they spin how theirs is better... big tobacco did the same... and I listened to them. part and part.

More education that was real back then, 30 years ago... would have been a bigger benefit to me than exaggerations that could be countered. In this I do definitely agree with you - the lying should stop! On all sides it should just stop. Truth is what the American people (and others) need.

My smoking has caused me no harm, I don't have cancer, the nervous system disease I have is not related to smoking, the only thing I have difficulty with is breathing now... and its pretty serious, since oxygen is rather important. lol. And that is why I am quitting. I cannot breathe.

But, truth all the way around, real education concerning things like smoking, education concerning food and good nutrition, its all important for all of us.

Do you realize how nutrition can play a role in so many things? It really does... good nutrition has the ability to lessen my pain level. It effects much more than people realize! Energy levels, sleep, pain, nutrition effects it ALL. And nutrition in our countries is something lacking... do you know why?

Commercial products. Consumerism.

I don't agree with public health care because once you get into public health care then the public can say they have a right into your private life, because nutrition effects health... unequivocally.... and that is NOT a lie. The problem however, is not everyone's body is the same, nor does it have the same needs, and not everyone can afford good nutrition... they have things coined poor people's disease for good reason.



posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 10:51 PM
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a reply to: Psynic




If society is going to rely on the government to pay to heal the sick, then society must do it's share to stay healthy and the government must do whatever it can to keep people that way, including taxing destructive things.

We can't have it both ways.



First of all, society does not rely on "government" to pay to heal the sick... the taxpayers pay for it. The government forms its fiscal budgets from taxpayer revenues.

Second, if you feel it's your duty to support the taxation of destructive, harmful, sinful things due to the increasing costs of health care, then allow me to suggest a few starting points to get you on your way to feeling better about fulfulling your duty as a righteous and healthy citizen:



The following things are harmful (aka "sinful") to your health and increase your risks for cancers, diseases, and other health problems due to chemicals, pesticides, offgassing, toxic fumes, bioaccumulated radiation exposure, microwaves and electromagnetics, carcinogenic substances, etc etc:

- toss out your computer monitor that you're sitting two feet away from
- toss out your microwave
- toss out your television
- toss out your cell phone
- toss out your Ipad
- toss out your Kindle
- rip out all the carpeting from your home
- rip out any and all laminate flooring/countertops
- strip off all oil-based paints from your house
- strip off all varethanes and varnishes from any wood products in your home
- get rid of all pressure treated lumber from your home
- get rid of your car
- get rid of your lawnmower
- toss out your Round Up, Weed N' Feed, and any other lawn care products
- toss out your Raid bug spray
- toss out all commercially made cleaning products
- get rid of your alcoholic beverages, soda pop, sweets, potato chips
- toss out your Red Bulls
- toss out all commercially made fruit juices
- toss out all hormone and chemical induced chicken/beef/pork (not sure what is and isn't ? oops, throw it all out)
- toss out any commercially produced milk and dairy products you buy from the grocery store
- stop drinking the water coming out of your taps
- toss out all commercially made shampoos, conditioners, toothpastes, soaps, makeup, and all other hygiene products
- toss out your margarine and vegetable oils
- toss out your ketchup, mayo, mustard, relish, salad dressings, and any other commercially made condiment
- toss out your commercially processed coffee grinds
- toss out your white coffee filters
- toss out your white toilet paper
- toss out your white flour, salt, sugar, and any store-bought breads
- toss out your cans of tuna and salmon
- toss out all laboratory produced pharmaceuticals
- toss out all tupperware and any other plastic products
- pack your bags and move as far away from all transformers, electrical wires, and city pollution


And last, but not least: Get rid of your government because they're the ones regulating all of these things and determining what is "passable" with regards to human "safety and consumption".




... But if eating organic makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside while you're sitting in front of your computer monitor for 6 hours, by all means continue to do so.



posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 10:56 PM
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a reply to: OpinionatedB

I am sorry you are having trouble breathings OpinionatedB but has you have already identified - it appears to be altitude sickness.

I know that in your mind and in the minds of many many others, everything you have been told by anti-smokers is rock solid truth and everything you have heard in support of tobacco use is a lie and a front by big tobacco.

The fact is that anti-smokers have not proved their case on any point. And using tobacco has benefits. This issue is not very different than the marijuana issue. Ban proponents created a public perception of "reefer madness" to garner public support for their bans. We have all seen the results and the lives destroyed by this lie. And we now know that marijuana use does have medical benefits.

Its no coincidence that obesity rates rose as smoking rates fell.

However, the only person who knows what is best for them is the individual. And it is truly infantalizing the population to indulge in these "education" campaigns. These campaigns are actually poorly disguised propaganda with little regard for the truth and developed solely to support an end goal that is usually not in our best interests.

The fact is that you have forgotten that in general, we are a very healthy population that really does not have a lot of illness but unfortunate, fat/slim, smokers/non-smokers, drinkers/non-drinkers etc - we are all going to die and the chances we are going to get sick just before we do.

Tired of Control Freaks



posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 11:00 PM
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originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: Psynic

So you want to hand over ownership of your very body to the government in exchange for health care paid for by taxpayers????

All I can say - is those that would have safety and liberty will end up with neither!

It isn't enough that I foot the bill for my health care - just because I give the money to government to pay for health care for all - doesn't mean I am not paying for it.

I say - bring the whole rotten thing to the ground. My personal liberty is not so easily bought!

Tired of Control Freaks


I'm sorry, I must not have expressed myself very well.

I'm not saying this is the way it should be, I'm saying this is the way it is.

I have been waiting for surgery for two years, because my prognosis as a smoker was a much longer recovery time than a non-smoker.

I have not smoked in two years and am still waiting, unable to work, using pain medication to maintain my mobility.

If I had been insured privately I would be back to work by now.



posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 11:03 PM
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a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

smoking, in moderation, is not bad for you... but the fact is - I have never met anyone who can smoke in a healthy moderation. (which would be about a pack a month or less - honestly)

Whatever is in modern cigarettes is a drug that is as addictive as crack coc aine for most smokers. Why I cannot breathe DOES have much to do with smoking for 30 years... it's not just the altitude, the altitude just made it worse....

Of course we are ALL going to die someday... but wouldn't it be nice to be healthy until those last days? Nutrition is what is important for that! And there is not one darn thing wrong with good education concerning that!


edit on 4-8-2014 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 11:07 PM
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a reply to: Psynic

Another way to look at this Psynic is that you are being denied the health care you paid for because you are a smoker. (punishment for not obeying public health advice).

its even more of an arguement for the destruction of the social health care system. If you had not been required to pay for the health care of all those "healthy" people - you would have the money to pay for your own private health care.

Your government has absolutely crippled you in your ability to take care of your own needs!

Tired of Control Freaks



posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 11:10 PM
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a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

Hence why I believe health insurance should be private. It's ridiculous having a government determine what health care you do or do not get!



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