We are ALL smokers now!

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: TDawgRex

I guess it depends on the choices. For me it isn't more expensive, I can easily make healthy soups and meals for less than any shelf bought ready made version.

A few basics covers most things, some cooking /baking skills, there are plenty of recipes online for the novice.

Oats, almond / non gm soya milk, organic flour, veg, fruit, organic or ethically sourced meat / fish, pasta, rice, potatoes, olive oil can make all sorts of delicious healthy meals.

I'm in the uk too, have you heard the expression "Eat or Heat" ? For many families its a fact of life!
We should not ignore the fact that a very large proportion of the uk is unemployed and living way below the poverty line. For those people buying "organic flour" and "organic or ethically sourced meat " is an impossibility!
£5 for six good wholesome organic sausages, or £1.50 for a pack of 30 things the same shape as a sausage from iceland.
They have no choice, they have to choose the gristle filled tubes from iceland.

You talk about "Baking", yet those on benefits cannot afford to run an oven!

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
Some self control and it's easy. For example, oats for breakfast, soup for lunch, meat/fish/veg based evening meal, fruit for snacks.

"Some self control and it's easy"
What!!!
Try putting yourself in their position! Will you shop at icelands and buy bags of gristle, and maybe have heating for a couple of nights per week, or will you buy organic and not have enough power to cook it!
It really is like that for hundreds of thousands of families all across the uk. And please dont say "they should get a job" because most of them would like nothing better! There are NOT ENOUGH JOBS! Why cant people understand that!

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
Often I have seen people feeding toddlers in pushchairs, coca cola and sweets instead of water and fruit. Parents and the general public need educating on these things and stores should look at rearranging their products for health instead of profit.

That I agree with. An apple and water is no more expensive than soda and sweets.

People can choose to put whatever in their bodies that they want, but they can also deal with the fact that it's going to increase your risk of having health complications, and therefore is absolutely reasonable to raise insurace rates accordingly.

Same goes for obesity, though I'm not going to absolutely say that's a choice, end of story. Sucks, but life isn't fair. The majority of porkers are that way because of their own stupidity. Some have a very difficult time keeping weight under control. I can sympathize with their struggles.

There's nothing control freakish about this, it's economics, science, and common sense.

a reply to: pl3bscheese

Strange sympathy to call people "porkers".

Just sayin'

a reply to: loam

Why?

Would you rather me say extremely fat people?

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
I am all for non smoking, for the sake of national health and general good practice. It was sold to people as something 'good' for health and was pushed upon people until it became known as not good for health. I would even ban it in public places outdoors as well as the already established indoor bans.

Similarly for obesity campaigns, I think it's a good thing.

We eat clean and healthy unprocessed foods and can taste the added things in processed foods, like too much salt, sugar, fat, MSG etc. It's all terrible stuff that resulted in vast amounts of ill people, a detachment from food reality, from example from farm to table and it has given supermarkets and big food co too much power in the things people purchase, they push carbs and processed foods instead of healthier options like fruit, veg and ethically farmed meat, which has only compounded the issue.

I am also surprised at the lack of choice people in the US have with regards to food, there is a lack of labelling, which IMO is essential in making educated food choices.

Here in the UK most use the NHS, which is publically funded health care and a vast amount goes on treating obesity and smoking related diseases.

Proper campaigns to sort the issue rather than treating the symptoms is a good thing. First and foremost is the mindset of the public.

That said, I think there are better ways than taxing people for the way things are marketed to them and the lack of control governments have on food providers and the choices available to the public.

During WWII the health of the nation in the UK was far improved due to rationing, however difficult it was for many, it did the nation's health some good.

The tax thing has always kind of bothered me. You see a big jump in taxes on cigarettes, gas, whatever. What you don't see is where those extra tax dollars go. In Canada, the tax INCOME to the government (both federal and provincial) for tobacco products was $7,312,993,636.

That's over 7 BILLION dollars in Canada just on tobacco taxes, no idea what it is in the US.
Think of it like an insurance policy. Does that money really go to people with tobacco related illnesses or R&D on preventing its use?
I couldn't find the costs of tobacco use in Canada for the same time period, but in 2002 it was $4.4 billion. I'm sure it's much higher now but with all that money coming in for 'treatment', what kind of treatment do we actually have and is it really worth $7 billion, or is that money going somewhere else.

a reply to: loam

I am in the UK.

There is perhaps more of a drive from supermarkets here to give offers on healthier foods.

The nearest large food stores near here is a Walmart and M&S, for comparing M&S sell ethically sourced meat and fish at 3 for £10 and Walmart do the same price for 3 but not ethically sourced and IMO lesser quality.

That aside, I am talking about healthier non processed eating generally, not just organic as even here organic is more expensive, unless homegrown.

All the major supermarkets here do offers and their own 'essentials', 'basic', 'smart price' ranges etc which are just the same quality products but perhaps non uniform shape and less emphasis on packaging.

Large kg packs of bananas, aubergine, peppers, onion, potatoes, carrots, spring greens etc from £1 -£2, kg bags of frozen green beans, peas etc can be bought for just over £1, similarly even if buying less expensive meat, kg bags of frozen low fat beef, chicken etc can be bought for around £5.

We have internet shopping here which many use, at a cost of around £2 - £6 for delivery to door. So the offers are available to those even far from a supermarket.

The ready meals and processed alternatives are more expensive and less healthy.

There are also even cheaper stores that sell discounted fresh food like Aldi and Lidl as well as the other main supermarkets.

If the US doesn't have a similar system, it should.

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

Ah, Europe. That explains much.

Thank you for responding.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
If the US doesn't have a similar system, it should.

Choices have gotten better, but are by far the more expensive alternative.

When I first moved to the US sometime ago, I was horrified by the food. There were no good choices. But even as that has started to change, there are millions of people in this country who simply can't afford it or don't have anything better to compare it to.

America really is for the most part an out-of-the-box, nuke and serve culture.

ETA:

Btw, just wanted to say that while there has been improvement in food choice over here, I've equally noticed a deterioration of food choice over there. I never thought I'd see the ready to serve stuff take hold in Europe. But it clearly has. Unfortunate.

On obesity, it really is about exercise. People just don't excercise. Albeit some sit at a cubicle for a living, that part can't be helped, and it's tough coming home from a long days work to make dinner, do the nightly chores and then go out and jog for an hour. I get it. I've been there. I quit working in a cubicle Farm long ago and it's the best thing I ever did for myself. NPR recently had article on the Obesity Epidemic in the US. The jist of was, it's not the portions, it's not really even Fast Food (although I have my own theory that fast food is harder to burn off than home cooked meals), or more calorie intake ( no dramatic calorie increase from the 80's to now). People just don't excercise.

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

The US does have a similar system. But it also depends upon the buyers. If they don't have the money to spend "organically", they will buy off the shelf (OTS).

Let's face it. OTS last longer and is cheaper in the supermarket and so that is what people who are pinching their pennies will buy. I'm lucky. I have me, myself and I to feed. But I will also be the first to tell you that feeding one is a hell of a lot harder than feeding four.

Why? Because organic food goes bad before the one can eat it all, whereas with four people it is gone in two days. I wish I could buy what I need on a day to day basis.

I've been learning how to can food, make jerky, but that's not even enough.

a reply to: loam

It took my husband and I quite a while to break ourselves of nuke and serve, but we don't do it for the most part except for our frozen veggies on the weeknights these days.

The key is to make small changes a bit at a time, but I have three coworkers who are forever just starting new plans to eat healthy, and they make big, dramatic changes that always fall by the wayside before they've lasted for more than a few months tops. I keep telling them to just change a little here or there until they're comfortable and then change something else and do it small, but they don't/won't and keep failing.

a reply to: loam

That's just not true. I think what you mean is the selection of fast-food has gotten better.

People are free to cook their own meals, like I do for most of mine. It's not expensive to eat healthy, it's just not convenient.

People are lazy.

a reply to: ketsuko

That's a wise approach, and something I would say should be incorporated when tackling anything that involves a major life-style change. Exercise is another good example. People go all out, and burn out. They don't even realize it's burnout, and then feel demotivated to try again. Slow and steady wins the race!

a reply to: VoidHawk

Wind that back.

If you read it properly, you will see I am talking about general healthy eating. The organic comments are in response to a comment from another poster about the cost of organic food. It wasn't a general suggestion to those on a budget.

I buy organic flour, my choice, it is about 20 to 50p more. and worth it IMO.

However, if you read the post I just wrote you will see I mention that here kg packs of frozen veg can be bought for £1, kg frozen meat for £5, etc and it isn't processed.

I have been on a tight budget before, it wasn't easy but we still ate healthy and for less than eating processed.

I have also taught life skills to people and spent years working for a charity resettling homeless people. I know that there are cheap healthy alternatives easily available. Pasta can be bought for 20p for 500g, 1kg rice for 40p, tomato puree for 40p all from Tesco.

Basically for 4kg pasta, 2kg rice, tomato puree, 2kg frozen veg, 2kg frozen unprocessed meat can all be bought for £15. The same quantity isn't easily found in processed alternatives for that price.

As for cooking / baking, pressure cookers and batch cooking are the answer, making batches that last a few days and can be microwaved to heat. Boiling rice /pasta takes around 13 mins on a low heat, less than oven baked processed meat products.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: VoidHawk

Wind that back.

If you read it properly, you will see I am talking about general healthy eating. The organic comments are in response to a comment from another poster about the cost of organic food.

I buy organic flour, my choice, it is about 20 to 50p more. and worth it IMO.

However, if you read the post I just wrote you will see I mention that here kg packs of frozen veg can be bought for £1, kg frozen meat for £5, etc and it isn't processed.

I have been on a tight budget before, it wasn't easy but we still ate healthy and for less than eating processed.

I have also taught life skills to people and I know that there are cheap healthy alternatives easily available. Pasta can be bought for 20p for 500g, 1kg rice for 40p, tomato puree for 40p all from Tesco.

Basically for 4kg pasta, 2kg rice, tomato puree, 2kg frozen veg, 2kg unprocessed meat can all be bought for £15. The same quantity isn't easily found in processed alternatives for that price.

I must ask. Are these bulk items? Because as a single person there is no way I could eat all that before it went bad.

a reply to: pl3bscheese

originally posted by: pl3bscheese
People are lazy.

Another strange example of sympathy.

a reply to: ketsuko

originally posted by: ketsuko
It took my husband and I quite a while to break ourselves of nuke and serve, but we don't do it for the most part except for our frozen veggies on the weeknights these days.

The key is to make small changes a bit at a time...

Yeah, that is a really good approach. Small changes over time lead to big results.

But another challenge for many is they also just don't have the skills to make better food choices. If you weren't raised eating a certain way, it's hard to adopt any other manner. I know lot's of people like this, who think the meals we make in our home are done by some secret magic or exceptional skill.

But we just cook with good ingredients.

a reply to: loam

For stating the truth? Why do you think I should be sympathetic with lazy individuals?

I'm not out to coddle lazy people. It does these poor fools a great dis-service.

Your heart might be in the right place, but the mind is.. elsewhere.

a reply to: loam

We watched Food Network. Believe it or not the cooking comp shows like Chopped were really useful because they showed us what things could be done in a quick period of time in terms of technique. They also made us adventurous enough to just start tossing in random mixes of herbs and spices. The rule is to hold it to three or four with an oil/vinegar or butter for a flavor profile.

We also enjoy sharing the kitchen and learned a lot together.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: VoidHawk

Wind that back.

If you read it properly, you will see I am talking about general healthy eating. The organic comments are in response to a comment from another poster about the cost of organic food.

I buy organic flour, my choice, it is about 20 to 50p more. and worth it IMO.

However, if you read the post I just wrote you will see I mention that here kg packs of frozen veg can be bought for £1, kg frozen meat for £5, etc and it isn't processed.

I have been on a tight budget before, it wasn't easy but we still ate healthy and for less than eating processed.

I have also taught life skills to people and I know that there are cheap healthy alternatives easily available. Pasta can be bought for 20p for 500g, 1kg rice for 40p, tomato puree for 40p all from Tesco.

Basically for 4kg pasta, 2kg rice, tomato puree, 2kg frozen veg, 2kg unprocessed meat can all be bought for £15. The same quantity isn't easily found in processed alternatives for that price.

Sorry if I sounded a bit harsh, but to me your post read like you made it all their own fault.
eg:

Some self control and it's easy. For example, oats for breakfast, soup for lunch, meat/fish/veg based evening meal, fruit for snacks.

People who live below the poverty line cannot afford to cook three times per day because of the price of power.
Those below the poverty line live in fear of receiving their power bills, and when they do receive them its usually for more than their monthly income! Where can they find that money? There's only one way to find it, cut back on food even more!

I have to say I'm surprised by the prices you quote.

Pasta can be bought for 20p for 500g, 1kg rice for 40p, tomato puree for 40p

They are well below the average price for those items and I cant help but wonder about the quality.

a reply to: ketsuko

I would definitely watch the Food Channel (though I would have to hook up cable again) if they had a show for "Cooking for One."

I find cooking for many to be easy.

a reply to: TDawgRex

Pasta and rice are dried foods with shelf lives of sometimes years.

The other products mentioned are either frozen loose in kg packs or fresh.

For example a 1kg pack of aubergine would easily last a person a week. A few meals with aubergine, there are around 5 in a kg pack depending on size.

Any leftover fresh veg can be prepped and frozen.

a reply to: ketsuko

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: loam
...shows like Chopped...

lol

We've binged watched that show. Love it.

Even my 10 year old son is riveted by it. I even catch him watching it alone.

originally posted by: ketsuko
They also made us adventurous enough to just start tossing in random mixes of herbs and spices. The rule is to hold it to three or four with an oil/vinegar or butter for a flavor profile.

We also enjoy sharing the kitchen and learned a lot together.

Exactly. On all accounts.

Lately, I've really discovered the magic of subtly using cinnamon (very small amounts) in savory dishes and various vinegars. Amazing.