Do you think you are free?

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posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 06:44 PM
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a reply to: Iamthatbish
Of course it is an illusion, perhaps more a mirage, as someone, and/or group will always be alpha in any human society.
I still prefer the hardest gang being UK police instead of mad max style gangs with no appeal process.
Call me a sheep if you like...bah.

edit on 4-8-2014 by grainofsand because: Typo




posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 06:55 PM
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As a young child I was taught that I was "free" and lived in the greatest nation in the world, we said the Pledge of Allegiance every day before the start of the school day, we set off illegal fireworks every Fourth of July, camped in the woods and played all day outdoors. Those were the seventies and times were very different. As an adult now I know I'll never feel that "free" again yet still recognize that in the context of many other countries I live "freer."

I always think the Native Americans in this country lived the freest, and perhaps they did. They put no "price" on land and in fact the ownership of land was a concept they couldn't grasp at first, but eventually they did. That is only an example I'm thinking of right now. The so called "Wild West" days were freer in a way as well as compared to modern times.

This world, right now....even if you own your own home outright and the mortgage is paid in full, in order to keep it you must pay property taxes on it and in order to protect it, you need to insure it. Same goes for our cars, trucks, boats, etc...there is a cost beyond it's initial price tag.

We pay a price for our "freedom" and I suppose it simply boils down to what level of freedom you live in, based on your geographical location. And it seems that the USA is still considered the land of opportunity or else we wouldn't see those trying so hard to get here, at whatever cost necessary.



posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 07:12 PM
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a reply to: queenofsheba
...still much better than a mad max style gang ruled society though eh?
You'll always have to pay someone if you aint the alpha.
Government/gangs/whatever, someone is always alpha.

This thread is pretty much a tear-fest crying about not being alpha. Someone/thing always is alpha in any society,, but bleating about it on an internet forum like a lost lamb on the hillside aint ever gonna fix it.



posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 07:23 PM
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a reply to: grainofsand True, I've seen the Madmax movie and oh, no way would I want to live like that, though you'd be surprised at those that actually hope for the end of the world. Despite sometimes wanting it all to collapse and having a reboot, I'm not sure I'd want to be part of those that would have to do the restart. Let's be honest here, its really not that bad.

And yes, I agree that someone is always alpha, such is the nature of being human. It's an innate part of our nature I suppose and it always reminds me that we are not so far away from being a pack of wolves, or insert any other animal. As far as "bleating about it on an internet forum" its what we do here on ATS and is the thing that does separate us from the animals that would simply rip each other to shreds. Simple intellectual discussion and debate sure sounds better to me than a street brawl. Much more pleasant.



posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 07:30 PM
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Agreed, and especially relating to this:

originally posted by: queenofsheba
As far as "bleating about it on an internet forum" its what we do here on ATS and is the thing that does separate us from the animals that would simply rip each other to shreds. Simple intellectual discussion and debate sure sounds better to me than a street brawl. Much more pleasant.


...the discussion on ATS is much more pleasant than a street brawl, most times at least



posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 07:34 PM
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a reply to: grainofsand Most times, you are right lol. Though I've gotten pretty close to wanting a street brawl..I think I actually had one but that's the past.
I do think a lot about how different it is these days from when I was kid and the freedoms we had as opposed to now and the way my parents lived. I see changes across all lines; from the DUI laws and how lax they were to how they are now, which is a good thing...to the way parents raised their kids to now, etc. The list could go on and on. Pros and cons I suppose.



posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 07:52 PM
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a reply to: queenofsheba
...always pros and cons, just the people are different depending on our own alpha status in whichever human society we happen to be in.
I am glad you are reasonably happy with your perception of your own freedom, I am happy with mine.

...I look forward to learning how enslaved I apparently am in the UK though from other enlightened members.

edit on 4-8-2014 by grainofsand because: Typo



posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 07:58 PM
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a reply to: johnb I feel you Johnb.

Here is my take on your question for others---
We are a new breed of slave.
We walk around, pretty much at will. We cloth and house ourselves.
Yet. We are slaves, no doubt in my mind on that one.
You either play the game. Or you live on the streets.

Remember in the movie the Matrix. When the Architect said, "There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept."

Which to me, in our world, would be living with no Power. No heat, no AC. no running water, ect. (You get the picture.) Living off the land pretty much. (And good luck with living off the land in USA, it is not legal unless you OWN that land, and still that leads to chains that bind you up.)

That is the only true freedom left in this world. And very few places on Earth allow that kind of lifestyle.
And even then, are you free?
Illusions all around us. What are we anyway?
Livestock for a grander beings?
Slaves for rich human beings. (debt slaves)

They learned the lessons of the past, and understood. You put chains on their legs and feet, they will Rise up!

Now the Chains around our necks are invisible, and people go about their fantasy land lifestyles.
Life is what you make it. and yes Ignorance is BLISS! I wanna go back!!!
edit on 4-8-2014 by zysin5 because: Final edit.



posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 08:00 PM
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a reply to: grainofsand Oh, you are in the UK...you are right, different perspective. I can see that, big time. I grew up in the north of the US in the country so perhaps that gives me a bit of a different viewpoint. Well, I'm sure it does and I won't even address the obvious because I wouldn't want to derail this thread. So I won't



posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 08:18 PM
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a reply to: queenofsheba
I've moved quite a bit over the years and one thing is always the same, someone is always in charge legally or otherwise in any area I've ever lived in. From the biggest family in the street to the police, someone or some group controls pretty much most of the world at a local level.

Our perceptions are the same in that respect, and wherever anyone reading this may be from. If we are not alpha then someone else is calling the shots so we either work with the framework we have in front of us and pseudo-comply or whatever, or we fight and make a difference.

...I don't see the need for a fight right now in my corner of the SW coast of England, life is pretty chilled...and more free than a majority of people on the planet, for sure...that makes me sad.



posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 08:31 PM
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Nice thread.

Clearly -- you are still free to speak out against slavery and lack of freedoms. At least.

Also, let's face it -- we are all governed by natural law. That includes economic laws driven by personal passion, hatred, greed, all the negative emotions. You can never be free of that.

So we are all born into the slavery of existence. Someone else said something similar on this thread. What can you do?



posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 08:37 PM
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a reply to: johnb

It depends on where you live - obviously, you cannot put a fire in someone's yard in Detroitlet, but in some of the more rural towns like the one where I used to live, as long as you weren't making a house-sized bonfire the local police didn't care (sometimes, they'd come out & join you). I can still remember my local cops racing down the local trail on ATV's, just because there was nothing else for them to do.

For anyone working a typical job, we aren't free at all - but if you compare us to what others around the world have, we do have a bit more freedom than they do. Here, we have a choice on what jobs we want, where we want to live, and what food to eat (within reason). We also don't, for the present time, have to worry about air raids, other nations trying to gain a foothold in our country, and diseases like Ebola running rampart. To those people, this place sure looks like freedom.

-fossilera



posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 08:45 PM
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a reply to: grainofsand I agree with you, someone always wants to be in charge and wants to be "alpha" no matter what group or circumstance you find yourself in. When I find myself in that situation, I simply smile and laugh and be extra nice because it throws them off guard and they don't know how to handle it.

I will agree with you on the point that where we both live it is indeed much freer than a majority of people. All you can do is your best and try to make a difference some way, some how. Try not to be sad, because that's not gonna help much, anger is much more useful.

Regards,
QOS



posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 09:04 PM
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a reply to: queenofsheba
...sadness is always rationalised with a relief that whatever crappy thing is going on is not happening to me, and if I thought my anger would change the world I'd be on it, but I am just a grain of sand moaning on the internet.

Kind regards,
GOS



posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 09:09 PM
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a reply to: grainofsand Well, I sincerely doubt that you are but a "grain of sand moaning on the internet" lol. At least you have a voice here, and that's something. Many in this world have no voice
Or no internet to voice their opinion on, and that's a hard fact that we can all appreciate, I'm sure.



posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 09:16 PM
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The word freedom was misspelled from the beginning, it should be spelled like this: Freddomhasresponsibilities.

The native American people were free and knew their place and responsibility, today I feel like we want freedom but we don't know what it means, we have no idea of what it implies.

To answer your question. No, freedom is an ideal that is irrational, no I should say impossible. Freedom should be also coupled with tolerance, because it seems that tolerance becomes scarce when two people believe in different freedoms.

I think I will be free when I die. maybe.
edit on 4-8-2014 by bitsforbytes because: (no reason given)
edit on 4-8-2014 by bitsforbytes because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 06:20 AM
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a reply to: ScepticScot

Not really.

a reply to: grainofsand

If you enjoy living in a corporate dictatorship, masquerading as democracy, where the highest bidder gets to make the rules and enslaves us all so they get most of the money, then that's your choice, which unfortunately is the majority choice.

I will actively fight for my rights when I need to, and I have needed to. I don't lie down and take it, because that's what they want from us so they benefit. Sure I am not as active as others, I have genuine (and private) reasons for that. But I do more than nothing I assure you.



posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 08:48 AM
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originally posted by: Firefly_
I will actively fight for my rights when I need to.


Same for me, but you see that's the thing, right now living in the UK I struggle to see any rights I am missing which need fighting over.

I can live wherever I like, I can choose any employment, training, or more education if I so wish.
I can believe in anything I like, my son has enjoyed excellent education in a free state school, even though I could have chosen to home school if I had wanted, I was free to make the choice.
I can light fires in my yard as long as I don't piss my neighbours off, I can leave my grass go brown and there are no ordinances threatening fines. Our schools are free to raise money through bake sales, children are allowed to sell lemonade from their front gardens (although that is a more US thing) they are still allowed. I'm even allowed to be buried in my own garden when I die without asking permission from anyone unless there is a risk it might pollute a nearby water source.

If I get sick or injured I get fixed by the NHS which asks me for no money at the point of need. OK, because of my income I have to pay £7.00 for any drug prescription, regardless of the cost of the drug itself...a big fat £7.00, wow.

I can walk naked on a nudist beach not far from my home, there are a few in the UK, although I avoid them myself.
I can leave the country freely, and as a UK national can enjoy freedom to live, travel, and work in a further 25 European countries with no requirement for visa's or permits.

I can stand for election in any level of government, from local councillor to MEP or MP, and I can shout and rant any rubbish I want in public at a local 'speakers corner' - aside from incitement to hatred and/or violence.

Hell, even the cops are pretty chilled in my corner of the SW coast of England, in the summer there are less than 20 arresting officers available for every 100,000 people, and around 100 per 100,000 in the winter - no tyranny down here, they are forced to police us through being friendly and sensible, especially as only a few actually carry tazers/pepper spray, the single baton most of them have is drawn as a last resort usually - and I don't remember the last time I heard of anyone in my area being beaten up at the hands of police brutality (Here's a thread I authored about exactly that: Is it police numbers or a nice environment that keeps the peace, or is it just a crazy mix?) The last time the cops shot anyone was in London, and that sparked rioting, so rare it actually is that they call the armed response units to a situation.

Or maybe you think that because I can only obtain a shotgun or rifle license then that is an example of how I'm not free? Oh noes, I can't own an AR15!! Why the # do I need one in the UK? Our crim's mostly just shoot each other, and I'm at more risk of being struck by lightning in the UK (about 60 people per year) than shot dead, around 50 per year.

So no, until or unless I see some tyrannical situation that makes me feel I should demonstrate about, I don't see the horrors of the perception of freedom I have in my part of the UK. Maybe I'm just missing something and really I'm some sort of slave as you apparently feel you are, but I have no debts or credit cards, and haven't atually used any plastic to pay for anything in over a decade - cash is still more than acceptable for everything in the UK.

On a side note, for all the US claims of us Brits being peasant worker subjects of The Crown which I see so often on ATS, I actually think we are much more free than you guys, what with police brutality, bans on bake sales, fines for brown grass, and all the rest of it.

I actually have no intentions to ever visit the US after every friend of mine who has, came back with stories of aggressive and scary border guards, and hostile aggressive police. Couple that with the multitude of topics about US police brutality it's no wonder you feel less free than I do.



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 04:30 PM
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Perceptions of freedom are relative of course, but I have to admit that illegally paying Cambodian border guards US$50 cash to enter/leave their country has been more chilled out to me than every story I've heard from anyone who has had dealings with US port officials or police.
I would prefer to cross a few borders with cash replacing a visa than try legally entering the US as a citizen from a country you apparently regard as friends. Maybe it is just unlucky news reporting but from everything I read on ATS I wouldn't wanna be arrested in the US.
Yep, I prefer my 'freedom' in the UK.



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 04:44 PM
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the fact that you are here on this plane of existence
means that you are not free...

but we are probably here to learn what is to be free?

what I have learned so far is that if I was free
I would be very, very, very far from here

but I am not,
and in fact, no one here is...
edit on 062014804upm84America/Chicago8 by donhuangenaro because: ...





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