No GOD? No Afterlife? No Point to Life.

originally posted by: subtopia
So much complexity and so little simplicity in many of the beliefs humans have created to appease their fears, no wonder so many are so confused.

Its all very simple but its more fun for the imagination to run wild and create extremely complex profiles to fit the individual fears; add hormonal rushes, dogmatic belief systems to the mix. There would be confusion (particularly this: our creator refuses to speak personally with us, because no one realizes WE ARE IT and that would be a redundancy).

a reply to: vethumanbeing

I do believe that the body can heal itself, and that men may be capable of other miraculous things. That doesn't prove any Biblical dogmas though. If believing Jonah survived inside a living whale's stomach for a few days, is the cost of enlightenment, no thank you. These are the "scientists" I meant by "sometimes sad". Literal interpretations of the Bible.

I think I might be missing your point though?

originally posted by: vethumanbeing
No one has any business believing Metallicus's claim? I BELIEVE IT.

Then you'll believe anything...

You forgot all about the soul/spirit that NEVER DIES and is immortal/eternal.

Yurp totally forgot about that....wait what?

Read some two posts up as you might fit right into one of Beaul's three descriptions of "the misplaced or lost souls of the ignorant".

Beaul? as in Beelzebub? Old Nick? Lord of Flies?

He lies to gullible Christians all the time, why would you believe anything THE DEVIL tells you?.....

a reply to: Metallicus


Wrong about the positive and negative part. While negative can teach as well, it does so via a lot of consequence and temporal (hell? timeout/abyss/shame/sorrow) and no one above in the cosmos, ever wants to hand any of their family over to the "handlers" or our elite here, they feed off the light. Get in and get out, and with those you came into get and anyone else you can too. Kindness, raise frequency and Love. Thats how you get out. Overcome anger and never harm others, always try to stand back, and if you got upset, well find out if you can disengage your own child and step into the role of adult, who doesnt take it personally but just tries to help. We're trying to overcome our childishness here, while at the same time, preserve our true inner child and awareness of Love and home and reclaim our innocence.

a reply to: Shakawkaw

I don't believe there to be very many 'true' Atheists is more to the point. It is just a knee jerk reaction to religion being over controlling.
But yes you could be right maybe i have never met an Atheist.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

I was talking to Beaul today and I asked IT this question, "is it better *harder won fight* to gain the soul of an atheist, a non-believer or a true believer in God faith". It answered this way:

1. The non-believer is prime as it has no idea it has a soul so I can take it without its even knowing I've done so.

2. The believer is trumped up triple as it has doubts about its soul at times; and during those I can convince is worthless (and through some maneuvering/promises of riches wealth, anything desired sells it to me).

3. The atheist is the easiest, as I can convince hold the argument they had a worthless soul (wasted as in they not in recognision) and without telling, was mine from the beginning.

I suppose if imagining promises of reward in the afterlife doesn't work out, one can imagine something is going to steal their soul.

Sorry, I do not feel like reading the chatter of previous pages. I am more agnostic but I am easy to see and understand beliefs.

• Life does not have to have an inherant value to have value
  
• Even if life itself has no value each life can have its own value and purpose
  
• The purpose of a your life is best self determined
  
• If you do not determine your purpose in your own life others will have their own ideas of yours which you can choose to or not to live by
  
• If someone fears death too much it will prevent them from living but once fear passes they have potential to value their life more
  
• If your lifes value is not determines by another person there is little to say for needing a god to tell you
  
• If you create something that can last that gives your life value and these smaller values of others build upon eachother
  
• According to some scientists experiences/memories can be passed down through DNA to children
  
• Some people find living forever to be a curse and death a blessing
  
• Your life has meaning like your blood cells. The cells can be short lived but their meaning is to bring a more complex being life. An individual person brings society life. Perhaps life even brings the universe.
  
• If I read into quantum physics right the universe needs an observer. Without life there would be nothing to hold things together.
  

a reply to: Metallicus

So, the point of this thread is to try to understand those of you that don't believe in God or an afterlife. Some of you, not most, seem desperate to convince others that there is no God and that those with beliefs are stupid or delusional. I find it ironic from my point of view that those people consider believers to be the foolish ones. When I say believers I mean those that believe in a higher power or an afterlife. Nothing specific.

It's no secret that one side has issues with the other. There's so much anger and hostility and I think it's mostly because people want to assume things about the other that they can't really know. I've never once wanted to talk anyone out of or away from their faith. I have a hard enough time working these questions out in my own head for myself - I would never presume to know better for someone else

I don't think believers are foolish. I've had many in my life - both family and friends. Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus - atheists - animists...on and on. To be honest - most people in this world like and respect each other and there's no point in animosity. I often envy them their faith - and I've loved many of them - very much

Speaking only for myself here...I have a problem with the religious only when they decide I have no right to live my life according to my own views of this world and life. That's as far as it goes really - in the animosity category

Most people are live and let live people. There's always exceptions - that goes for the atheists too. I could argue that they have an uphill battle trying to make a place for themselves in a world run by religion. I understand the frustration and anger - I often feel it firsthand

Okay, so my one question after all that is this... If you believe there is no God or afterlife what is the point of life? If we are on this rock for one short life, a relative blink of an eye in geologic terms and never return then what is the point?

Good question

:-)

Sorry - that's all I got

a reply to: Aphorism

Do you not love anything?

Atheists, as far as I can tell, don't need to imagine rewards to enjoy and find reason to live.

Exactly this

Here's as close as I can come to explaining how I feel about all of it

Does a dog worry about an afterlife? No, he lives his life day by day. As an atheist I view it no different for man. We exist therefore we live day to day. We are programmed to perpetuate our species just as any other animal. Religion was created to bring order out of chaos. It is a means to control the population. What disgusts me about modern religion is the zealots who try and force their beliefs and morality on other people. Live and let live. Just because you think something is immoral doesn't mean I do or should as well.

Being an atheist is so much more rewarding than trying to conform to something that is completely against human nature. I have no hangups about anything. I don't have to live my life worrying about some invisible sky dude peeping in on my sex life or anything else I do. I live life to the fullest. I enjoy life. I get one shot and it's up to me to make it the best experience I can. I have children so I have fulfilled my duties in continuing our species. I have enough to worry about in this life, I don't need the added baggage of some group or sect looking down their nose at me for how I choose to live my life. I'm living it for me and mine.

When I die, I am gone. My legacy I leave behind lives on in my children, and their children. My soul is my genes and DNA that I pass on. In that respect I know for a fact that part of me will live as long as humans survive.

First off, you are trying to make your argument strickly black and white. Just because one loses their faith or is not religious does not put them in the black _white cliche. Rather i know several families whom do not indulge with our culture norms of having to believe in this god and love their families, and have great lives. My question to you op, is why is it that one must love this invisible entity to know true love? Is your third party relationship better than my one on one? I digress, but truly ironic that my love for friends and family never comes with consequences from a book-bible that has been changed what? 250ish times

If you find your purpose in life, that's awesome. Some of us are just happy to exist and contribute what we can to making the world we're in a better place. My goal is to have people think of me fondly after I've died. To have them say that the world was a better place because of me. That without me here, life would not have been as rich or fulfilling.

If I want to get philosophical, the whole reason WE are here as a race is continue getting better and better. To evolve and make the race better. By doing my single part without expectation of reward or punishment other than the knowledge of my contribution is my purpose and SHOULD be the purpose of everyone.

If you're not contributing your fair share to your life and fellow humans here because you're expecting to do better in the afterlife, you're hurting the rest of us here.

I don't think reincarnation has anything to do with a God or any religion. I'm a non believer in any God or religion. I think that reincarnation and whatever afterlife, if any, is a glitch in the universe. My mother once had a theory; Deja Vu is what you get when you're following along the same path of a life you lived in the past, and reincarnation happens until you live the life you were supposed to live, fully. So..following that theory it's a little unsettling that deja vu is pretty much just a sign from our universe that you need to change the path your life is on, or you're going to come back and redo it all over again.

I believe there is something after death and im not saying heaven or hell. Since energy cannot be created or destroyed then something had to and has to exist for ever. I mean humans have that energy and we will never prove if there is anything after death until we face it. I just don't think that science will ever prove it.

This life is just a place of test, to see who when given the freedom of choice will choose to do good and who will do the opposite. This is not the be all and end all... Everyone truly knows that there is no true peace and rest here... All matters will return to God for judgement, justice will be done on those who were wronged, and those who quietly did the right thing because it was right will be rewarded... Atheism and freedom has its roots in Satanism... WHAT!? You might say... Look at the books of Satanism... 'Do what thou wilt will be the whole of the law'. When we believe their is no creator and no one to take account of us, then people will simply 'do what they feel like'.... Funny how similar to the old books of Satanism that sounds right? People just don't get it, this life is just like a big exam, so on the day of judgement no one will have excuses... their lives will be laid out to them... I say this sincerely for your own sakes, it won't benefit me or harm me whatever u choose to do... Be sincere, remove any biases and ask God to guide you to the truth, just do it, trust me if you are sincere you will be guided and you would not wish to go back to ignorance even if the earth was placed in your hands...

a reply to: Ares95PL

Ares u hit the nail on the head... Something had to 'exist' forever. There is a book on 'the rational belief' long and complex but the conclusion is what you just said... Keep at it man you are closer than many...

a reply to: Ares95PL

I agree too. Ever since I started to think about what happens after death, I could never imagine that we could cease to exist after that. It's like we go to a dreamless sleep forever and ever and no more conciousness and never wake up, how is that even possible? I have read and seeked. Based on what I believe, there is no question that there is afterlife after death due to the amount of evidence and testimonies. If there is afterlife then our journey here has a purpose. It's entirely up to us to find and fullfill it. Don't believe everthing you read, but take in what you trust will do good for the humanity and what makes you truely happy.

a reply to: Metallicus

Like it or not, everything you have posted here , has come from others beliefs, things you have read, things you have denied.

It appears you are just as mainstream as everyone else, but just do not go to a regular "class" for your doses of "truth".

Flat out, reincarnation is not what you think, and no one is progressing on any order that you think.

Others could be in control, but you think it is not possible, that you are actually caught in a cycle that you cannot see.

Until you realize that ALL your CORE BELIEFS, come from others, even in THE AFTERLIFE, nothing will ever change.

How can you actually make things different , if everything is the same ??

Stop tripping over the same lines that convince you that religions are the cause of evil, EVERYTHING, needs to be VETTED, and ROOTED OUT.

a reply to: Metallicus

www.evawaseerst.be...

Chapter: a personal belief

Afterlife does exist, it is collective consciousness, bundled in a magnetic cluster, a 'white light ', plasma sphere or UFO if you like. A cluster that is part of something that was a mystery even for our creators.
As if consciousness only can exist thanks to the involvement with 'something else' ... maybe with the quantum particles that exist in another universe or in other people ... or are quantum particles in multiple places at once?
I have in all cases the presumption that every person has access only to a small piece of consciousness. In short: I do not believe consciousness can exist without interaction, without compassion. The greater the interaction, the greater the consciousness.
Admittedly, it remains complex ... and hypothetical ... but since the earliest antiquity there are unmistakable clues. From UFO's until the Egyptian priests, Plato, Jesus, many religions, near death experiences, modern insights in the human mind etc. (with etc. we think about Sitchin but the word 'pseudoscience' is a magic word that puts some truths and even geniuses in the rubbish bag): Afterlife and a White Light seem to be bounded together.
After death all (pure and thus strong) souls reunite. They all become One Light. One signal in God’s Brain that travels to another part of God’s Brain, another universe. Weak souls face hell. In other words they don't reach the light and perish. Fortunately we can work to get a strong soul during our life. The only way to do that is all bundled in the word 'love'. Remember -again- what Plato said: 'God is love'.
The Egyptians with their book of death and, yes, the Bible among other ancient texts were not so far from the truth I believe, but you have to google a bit with the metaphors. A good soul is forgiving, can sincerely love people, can sense other souls, is understanding, and so on ... under one condition if you ask me: the other soul has to be sincerely regretting the bad things she did. And then again, we have always to be careful ... but this is not a book of 'How to live your life'. It's very complicated and 1000 pages will not be enough to explain all possible nuances that can appear. And by the way I don't claim to be an expert.

This is a great OP. I am curious to know and have read through quite a few replies so far.

I want to specifically ask if they believe there is nothing more to this life than just existing here for a short period, why is it so important to follow laws and rules set up by our own species?
If we are simply animals, why should we follow rules set by other people we do not care about?

If this were my thought process I would be doing everything I could to take advantage of others. It doesn't matter whether I am considered a good person or not. What is "good" for that matter anyways?