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EU anti-terror coordinator: hundreds of trained muslims return from Iraq

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posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 10:09 PM
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In an interview with the German newspaper Berliner Zeitung, EU's anti-terror coordinator Gijs de Vries stated that hundreds of muslims who had a terrorist training in Iraq, have returned to Europe.

Gijs de vries based his statements on information from European intelligence services. The chaos in Iraq has created room for fundamentalists to provide military training, as previously seen in Afghanistan and Chechnya. At least thirty muslims who had such a training in Iraq, have returned to the Netherlands.

Blobber

P.S.: I got this information from Dutch teletext, perhaps a German who has read the whole article from the Berliner Zeitung can give more information.




posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 10:15 PM
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OK, now I'm confused. For months we've been reading how Iraq has become a magnet for Islamic fighters. Now they're going from Iraq to Europe? If they are being trained in Iraq, wouldn't the purpose of such training be so they could fight there?

Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 10:22 PM
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AlexofSkye,

I believe what the article meant is that muslims who have been recruited around the world, has been given a terrorist training in Iraq (whether or not to fight in Iraq) and are now returning to their homeland, as has been seen previously in (terrorist trainingcamps in) Afghanistan and Chechnya. In this case it's about muslims who have been recruited from Europe.

Blobber



[edit on 3-12-2004 by Blobber]



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 11:28 PM
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Thanks for the clarification, Blobber. I'm not doubting that you read or heard just what you've stated. But without evaluating the source, its hard to know what to make of it. It does contradict the "Iraq as magnet" idea, for example, and again, why train, only to leave the battlefield? This is a rhetorical question - you needn't answer.

Possibilities:

- its propaganda and exaggeration, meant to cause fear in Europe (which is the purpose of terrorism, right?)

- a genuine effort to spread the Islamic revolution

- a tactic to carry the war to other places, to divert attention from the middle east, to prevent Europe from buying into the reconstruction of Iraq

I need to question my own motives, too... eg, I don't like the idea of militants entering Europe, so am I inclined to deny it, to stick my head in the sand?

But again, without knowing the source and evaluating the truth of the story, its difficult to go on anything other than emotions and speculation.



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 02:34 AM
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Alexofskye,

The source is Dutch teletext (also now on newsprograms), and it's a reliable news source. It quoted the statements by the head of the anti-terror institution of the European Union when interviewed in a German newspaper. He based his statements on all the information gathered by European intelligence services.

There is nothing to be gained for him or the EU to spread disinformation, also because of the terrorist activities in Holland several weeks ago.

It is known that in Iraq, European muslims have been killed too fighting against US forces. So it's really not surprising for me that some of them who have had a training in Iraq, are now returning to Europe. And it's clear that these people posess a potential danger for the future. In this case we are talking about the Europeans who have returned, but it's logical to assume that (potential) terrorist all around the world are now returning to their homeland, after a training in Iraq. And some of them are, so to say, walking timebombs or moles.

It surprises me to read this news because as it now seems, the situation in Iraq after the invasion was such that fundamentalists could train hundreds or thousands of potential terrorists. Just like the camps in Afghanistan or Chechnya. One can argue whether the invasion of Iraq really lead to a decrease in the threat of terrorism.


Blobber


[edit on 4-12-2004 by Blobber]



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 03:47 AM
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Maybe Europe should be doing a better job screening those coming into their countries. That way there wouldn't be a problem.



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 04:08 AM
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if they knew it, why didn't they stop them?

On the other hand, Gijs de Vries is member of the VVD party, VVD lobbies heavily (on behalve on some contractors) for participation in the Joint Strike Fighter and also they want the dutch government to sell older warships to Pakistan for example , so that with the money made the current warships could be equipped with american cruise missiles (naturally a few dutch private contractors would receive money on swiss bankaccounts to grease the deal, like has happened in the past, where public money weas spend to make a few individuals happy)


Let's just say that the VVD will put their mouth where money can be made and they will help sell the hype.


[edit on 4-12-2004 by Countermeasures]



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 04:20 AM
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Originally posted by American Mad Man
Maybe Europe should be doing a better job screening those coming into their countries. That way there wouldn't be a problem.


Hmmm better job screening who comes in? Let's see.
Mr. Taliban tells the EU customs he is going to Saudi Arabia for a pilgrimage, after that he wants to visit the very beautiful scenery of the Caucasus. The customs officer gives him his boarding ticket.

Unfortunately mr. Taliban lied, instead he goes to a terrorist training camp in Iraq or Chechnya and returns with his deadly knowledge. The nephews of mister Taliban repeat the same trick, and they all return to different countries all over the world with the same deadly knowledge.

Better screening? Ah of course, their beards are an indication they are terrorists, no?

Blobber


[edit on 4-12-2004 by Blobber]



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 06:32 AM
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Originally posted by Blobber
Better screening? Ah of course, their beards are an indication they are terrorists, no?


Yes they are - along with their name and race. Sorry - I don't care about racial profiling, you wunna know why? BECAUSE IT MAKES SENSE.

A white guy named John Smith whos family has lived in Europe for their entire existance has little to no chance of being a terrorist.

However, a first generation Arabic guy with the name Mohamad akbar aljezeera bin Hussien who has just gone to the middle east and has a bandage on his arm stands a pretty good chance of being one.

And on a different note, if you guys weren't letting every damn Muslim into the EU, and thus allowing them acces to the whole continent BECAUSE OF the EU, you wouldn't have this problem on a continent level - only on a national level *for those nations that are lax with imigration).



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 07:14 AM
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A white guy named John Smith whos family has lived in Europe for their entire existance has little to no chance of being a terrorist.


really? I have 2 words for you.....RICHARD REID


news.bbc.co.uk...



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 08:24 AM
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Originally posted by American Mad Man

Yes they are - along with their name and race. Sorry - I don't care about racial profiling, you wunna know why? BECAUSE IT MAKES SENSE.

Dude we have the IRA, the ETA, RAF, PKK etc for already... I don't know, but at least half a century (IRA). And guess what, even with racial profiling -an Irish (IRA) look different than a Kurd(PKK), Spaniard (ETA) or German (RAF)- the organizations are still here

And now you expect that if we "better" screen the hundred million or so bearded men who visit Europe, we can stop all the terrorists? Please look up at that tiny region called Northern Ireland, and be bewildered how destroying terrorism in that tiny region alone is impossible.


Originally posted by American Mad Man
And on a different note, if you guys weren't letting every damn Muslim into the EU, and thus allowing them acces to the whole continent BECAUSE OF the EU, you wouldn't have this problem on a continent level - only on a national level *for those nations that are lax with imigration).


Wow, now terrorism is the fault of our lax immigration policy. We have approximately 10 million Muslims among 300 or so million EU citizens. Can you elaborate what is so lax about or immigration policies?
I am wondering... If your country had not so much a one sided policy when it comes to the Middle East, perhaps that would have lesten the danger of terrorism, rather than that we should "better" screen the millions of bearded men who use our airports.

On a side note, I think the terrorists who had been given a training in Iraq and went to other countries (non EU) might be more dangerous. I am sure there are non European countries which don't screen bearded men or non bearded men... at all, and which also have a weak intelligence service. Or how about the countries which don't really like to cooperate with the US?

Blobber


[edit on 4-12-2004 by Blobber]



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 01:00 PM
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Easy, American Mad Man. It wasn't slack Europeans who let the 20 hijackers into the US for the 9/11 party. We are all to blame, everywhere in the West, from Canada to Australia, to Europe and elsewhere, for loose, careless, even reckless immigration policies. And, for giving in to the small-l liberal philosophy that we owe the rest of the world a living, and falling for every sob story.



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