The Best and Simplest Thing You Can Do to Actually CHANGE the System

I think we need to clarify our definitions of 'best' and 'simplest'.

originally posted by: pianopraze

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
a reply to: RobertAntonWeishaupt

Reaching the people on ATS is one thing. You should write an opinion piece based on your post and send it to every political publication you can find.

Very well-written, by the way.

Your point is very good, but it is not written well enough for the masses.

You have to get it down to a soundbite, or at most a 15 second read that makes your point.

The masses won't read more than three sentences or a paragraph at most.

perhaps then it needs to be dumbed down into a 30 min simpsons episode or whatever flavour the masses are watching on the hypno tube

I thought ats was about denying ignorance?

Vote on a local and state level. I believe that could help.

National.... You really think the votes are reported to us correctly?

As far as the burden of proof... There's tons that politicians, people, and the mainstream media lie more than they tell the truth. Where's any counter evidence to say this one thing is honest..? ( even though we know things like some people voted many times)

Edit - sorry, my way of changing things would just be to vote on a local level. Get involved, get educated. If the average person participated in their community politics and decisions it'd have further reaching effects. Knowledge is power.

originally posted by: dagann
a reply to: chr0nautTo some point i agree with your assessment. However, when you hear George Carlin's response to your point, because of the fact it's not original, his point makes as much sense as yours...if not better...lol.

Carlin's comedy may be wry but he is an entertainer.

I have contributed to the founding of a political party that now is in coalition government in New Zealand.

Yes, corruption and political chicanery do occur but apathy is no cure.

A dedicated and earnest voice does make a difference. A thousand, or a million such voices will sweep aside any corrupt interest.

That's just how it is.

a reply to: RobertAntonWeishaupt

If the 40-45% of eligible voters who stay home (presumably out of well justified disgust at the sorry options on display) came out and voted for a third party, ANY third party, we can start to take away the illusion of a mandate. I'm not crazy enough to think we can unseat the entrenched swine so easily, but I would love to see them slink into office with their tails between their legs admitted to winning with only 35-40% of the vote.

In my country we have 12 political parties that all have seats in our "Congress". 74 percent of the voters actually casted a vote last time (2012). So if having plenty of voters and plenty of votes for other parties would be a cure for the dreaded "mandate" curse surely we Dutch would not suffer from it.

But we do.

There are differences; in my country it is totally unfeasible for ONE party to get the majority of votes - so it's impossible for ONE party to rule. Hence we have a long series of negotiations between the parties to form a coalition. And the coalition chooses a leader.

But alas - that leader then suddenly has a "mandate" too.

And like it is in the States our coalition will ignore the opposition as much as it can. Even if the opposition grew and the parties in the coalition shrunk - the prime minister of our country still feels he has a "mandate" to ignore the opinion of the opposition. As long as he is able to get himself a coalition that supports him, he suddenly has a "mandate". That's how the system works and it won't change.

The problem with our political system is that it is the inheritance of an era in which we only had slow means of communication. It would have been impossible to query the people directly so we had a need to represent the people. And so we have people that represent hundreds of thousands of other people. And that's the problem: it requires a specific type of person that thinks he is actually capable of doing that - at best you need a number of treats of the sociopath, at worse you are one. For if you do not have these treats you will not even consider representing other people. Alas not even the best of the best are capable of defining the average opinion of their hundreds of thousands of voters - therefore substituting their own opinion instead.

But nowadays we HAVE fast and reliable means of communication and therefore it would be possible to query the population directly. But doing so would disempower the parties and the people in these parties. As they are the ones that decide about this it probably will be a cold day in hell before that happens..

We must advocate for "third parties."

Is where I stopped reading... You have no solution... "Pick these other guys, they're nice, they'll save us"... pfft... I think you need to look back over history... They're ALL control freaks, they would have to be to wanna join gov in the first place!

Besides YOU do NOT have the right to vote regarding what I do!!! Voting is immoral! Because by voting you are saying "I do not agree with you! So therefore I want you locked in a cage, and I'll give these guys the auth to do it!"

It is heartwarming to me however, the stats you bring, gives me real hope! I only wonder, when the rest of you voters/oppressors going to get a clue?

You nor anyone has the right to rule me! To vote on what money should be stolen from me. To vote on which country the money is used to attack...

Answer me this Mr politics.... How many people are your politicians responcible for killing over oh I dunno say the last 50 years... How many? Care to try and fine out?

When are you "voters" going to wake the hell up???? Helloooooo you are the biggest part of the problem!!!! Cos you keep on bloody voting which gives these sickos legitamacy.

Think about it...

EDIT: Oh and when it goes under 50% turnout (i dare say it has duplicate votes and all) are you going to stand by your "democratic principles"? By dispanding government because the MAJORITY have spoken... heh... Course not!!! Cos you dont REALLY even support of believe in the system you so advocate.... do you!

I'm angry... Going before I say something that gets me banned... XD

a reply to: keenasbro

You know, the whole idea of compulsory voting is one of the most awful concepts I've ever heard of. Just because everyone's required to vote has nothing whatsoever to do with the quality of the choices your given, assuming there are any real choices, which is a considerable leap. All compulsory voting does is provide the creeps in government can say, "See, everyone voted and we were elected so of course the results are viable and we have a mandate to govern and our government is legitimate". The thing is that to claim a government has been legitimately elected because everyone's forced to vote is a complete red herring. Elections deliver legitimate results only when the voters can, with some degree of certainty, assure themselves that the votes cast are being fairly counted. In this era of black box voting, there's no way whatsoever to validate the elections and as a result, "elections" have become nothing more than window dressing designed to provide the appearance of legitimacy. Frankly, I'm becoming of the opinion that the only reason a jurisdiction like Australia enacts compulsory voting is because the process has become so corrupted that the creeps elected felt it necessary to ensure some degree of plausible deniability.

Just a thought.
Thanks

a reply to: RobertAntonWeishaupt

You'd have to offer a prize of some sort to get those "other" voters off the couch.

It's not a question of how many people are voting but who they can vote for. What is the point of everyone voting when the choices are either "A" or "B" and both are just as bad as each other/the same?
At least here in Britain there are fringe parties to vote for, so you can show your disgust with the usual parties and at the same time try and get something else in.
Any party can get seats in parliament based on percentage and hence have a say in things and stir it up a little. They didn't like that the BNP [rightwing] got a couple of seats but some people elected them and therefore they are 'in'.
Same with Green Party or others, at least during parliament there is a possibility to hear other opinions and not just a circle jerk between the same old.

If I was American I wouldn't vote either. There is no point, all your politicians are the same, only under different names. By voting you show agreement with the current system and nothing will ever change, because...it looks as if it's working and everyone is happy.

Votes don't matter. They are the illusion of choice. Pick your poison pretty much. The same old microwaved faces lik Hillary Clinton's over and over. If there is a third...it will just be a 3rd vial of poison. This has been proven over generations and generations and I can't see how anyone can still believe that we have a choice. Its all staged and always has been. I voted once as a kid and never did again. I know, I know..."it you don't vote then don't complain about whose in office", my reply to this is.....when has there been anyone in office ever that hasn't majorly disappointed the public, since Kennedy was murdered for trying to out think the International Bankers by putting the American Dollar on a silver standard? All who voted...voted in the trash they fooled us with....like Obama the savior, who turned out (somehow) worse than Bush. How will they fool us in the next election.....let me guess Hillary, a woman President, and we will all shout how glorious things are that we broke historical ground...Fooled again, while she does her part to finish off our country. This is reality.

a reply to: TonyS

I often tell the story of the republic of Cibaria.

In the early days of the Cibarian Republic they had a very unorderly way of preparing food: anybody that felt like it was allowed to cook! This unhealthy practice often led to problems: food poisoning, obesity, unhealty food or even no food at all. Given their longstanding reputation of providing healthy and well-balanced food - according to their own advertisements - it was decided to grant the national chain of quality restaurants McCiberia the monopoly on food provision.

So, if you wanted to eat you went to McC. There were no other restaurants and the filthy habit of cooking for yourself was declared unlawful. Any other form of food provisioning was forbidden to prevent the aforementioned problems.

Now, given their monopoly McC was not free to do it anyway they wanted it, there were strict rules. Firstly they should adhere to the will of the people and only serve food the people wanted. The best way to do this was of course to give people a say in what would be on the menu. But as it would be impossible to just give anybody whatever they wanted (nor neccessary nor healthy) and due to logistical restrictions it was decided to set up food selection groups. Each such a group would have to represent at least 10 percent of the population and take into account the restrictions of the system. However, it was thought to be reasonable that cooks could offer 10 different menus (of which most would overlap with others) hence the 10 percent rule.

After a while the biggest groups were the Caroteens and the Krauts. The Caroteens were fond of healthy food with lots of salads, carots and tomatoes. The Kraut party offered sauerkraut, sausage and gravy. Both menus were very popular, almost 90 percent of the customers ordered either a Kraut or Caroteen menu, half of them Caroteen stuff, half of them Kraut stuff. There were some other menus that were popular for a while, like the Vindaloo Victory Menu, but there weren't many cooks that could prepare a good curry. So even many who'd rather had had a good curry choose either Kraut or Caroteen reasoning "better a good Kraut than a bad curry".

Now, one day I visited Ciberia, unaware of the system they had. It was presented to me by a Ciberian friend of mine as a wonderful system, in which people freely could choose what they wanted to eat at low prices and in which the production of food was done in a very efficient and orderly way. McC took great pride in their slogan "They're loving it!".

Impressed I wanted to see that for myself. Well, actually, I did not have any other options either: eating was done at the McC, period, no discussions. We can't have anarchy after all. So I decided to go for a burger. I went to the local McC and lo! - indeed was given a Free Choice: Caroteen or Kraut. There were other menus too - one even had a hotdog in it, close enough to a burger for me - but all of them had signs on them "not available this season".

Now disappointed but still hungry and not having any alternate option I decided to choose sauerkraut, gravy and sausage. Not really what I like, but at least I would have some meat - the sausage. The other choice they had was even worse. So I ordered, then sat down, a bit grumpy, expecting to be served a fine dish of kraut - but nothing happened. I complained, and the very nice gentleman behind the counter explained to me "Just a moment sir, we have not had enough customers yet to decide - please wait, you will get your food, rest assured".

A bit puzzled why they needed to decide and on what I sat there and waited. Many others came in and ordered: some Kraut, some Caroteen. And then suddenly an uproar: there seemed to be a fight going on in the kitchen! The cooks yelled at each other, some punched others in the face - a lot of cursing and swearing was heard. And then even shots rung.. after a while half of the cooks were transported to the hospital or the morgue. The remaining crew finally started preparing our meals. About time,we now were almost starving.

Then they served me: carots, tomatoes and cucumber. Though now very very hungry I refused to eat it, complaining loudly to the staff: not a burger, not even meat! Where is my meat! The manager stepped in and asked what the problem was. I told him in no uncertain terms what had happened and asked him why they served me this sheite.

His response was logical and true. "Because that is what we all have to eat sir. It's the will of the people. They're loving it."

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: RobertAntonWeishaupt

Starred & flagged!

Encourage EVERYONE you know to vote (even if they disagree).

Abstaining from voting and then complaining about the outcome is stupid.

Voting between bad and worse and participating in a system that only benefits the rich is stupid.

I do not like the choices and will not vote on who gets to screw me over.

The fake democratic system you think you live in needs people like you. Humanity doesn't

I don't think you can participate in a system you don't like and expect it to change into another system that you will like. A third party would just be a third party - so instead of red versus blue it would be red versus blue versus lemon or grape or something. The versus attitude is getting us nowhere except right back around to where we never left.

It's like fighting people who fight thinking that it will stop the fighting.

It's a kind of madness IMO.

On the other hand if everyone stayed home on election day - and they still picked new wardens - at least we would KNOW how it's always worked lol.

It doesn't matter who is in power, if they are not for the establishment, the system, the globalists, the central banking cartel, the Wolfowitz Doctrine and the general weakening of the drones (general popualtion) for greater control, then they wouldnt be there in the first place. To change this system you must exist totally out of it, only then can you beat it. It's easier to do in America, land is vast, but for small overcrowded countries like the UK with ever growing zombie like population, ever growing degeneracy and ever growing loss of self, it's near on impossible.

i never voted and never will. because votes dont matter. if i ever do vote, i will vote for Jessie Ventura

Great post! I usually read most or all of the thread before posting myself, but I didn't want to forget what thoughts I started mulling around.
The essence of what you are saying seems to be that the only way you could truely throw your vote away is by not using it at all. People like to stress the idea that voting outside the two party system is a throw-away vote, but it totally isn't. Your little vote still gets tallied with the whole and the message you end up sending is:

"Yea, I'm gonna vote, but not for either of you two crazies."

If 100% of eligible voters actually casted their vote I think that the message might be clear that while we care about the bones of the system we are not too excited by the people who want to get into it. For all we know the idea of throwing away your vote by thinking outside the box was seeded purposefully.

I don't understand why people think those who don't vote are stupid. We're stupid because we choose not to take part in a fake election? I don't vote on American Idol contestants, does that make me stupid? I have more faith in American Idols vote tallies than the US presidential election. The process has been totally hijacked. There's a documentary called Uncounted: The New Math of American Elections. I suggest anyone who ever voted or plans on doing so watch it.

Voting is a total illusion. You vote, therefor you have done your part! Earned your freedom you did! Oh how much more well informed you are than all those morons who did nothing all day while you stood in line for god knows how long to cast a vote that can be used by someone to make it look like you voted for whoever THEY choose. Not you. Your vote can be changed to make it look like it was cast for either side. The choice is not yours or ours, hasn't been for a long time. Maybe you should look into the process instead of which candidate the bigger scumbag. I believe there have been threads on ATS a long time ago about this.

originally posted by: Bundy

Hahahaha so true

a reply to: RobertAntonWeishaupt

I agree wholeheartedly with one exception. I don't believe it will be easy at all. Before I continue, let me first say that armed revolution is the very, very last resort, and I'm afraid that IF we see one the end result will be rather grim. People are too quick to follow and arms. Any self-indulged fool can control and manipulate such a revolution. The very sane authority we're attempting to oust would probably take control of the rebellion and lead both sides.

Your solution is undoubtedly the only best solution, but it will take hard work, consistency, and perseverance. We will need to launch a large-scale propaganda campaign. We will need people who are well educated in communication studies and mass communication- public relations. Those people will need to work closely with musicians, artists, and writers, and we will all need to work with tech savvy people. In other words, in order to undo the psychological damage and/or rally people, we must form a network of people who can launch a massive media campaign of our own.

There doesn't need to be any agenda other than, "think freely and vote accordingly."

Only then can we begin to affect this game-change you're referring to. I have no idea how to start such a large-scale persuasive campaign, but I do know that we need people who have learned Bernays style propaganda. That is key.

a reply to: RobertAntonWeishaupt

Your post is mistitled. The correct title is: What you can do to ask SOMEONE ELSE to make a difference for you.

With all due respect, you are wrong. The way to make a difference is to set an example and work to solve the problem your self. If you are not focused on solving the problem your self, forget it. The government isn't going to solve it for you. They will make it worse, just like 100% of the time.

If you see a problem, work to solve it. Certainly one of the biggest problems the entire world faces is the foolish expectations that other people are going to solve their problems for them.