It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

TA-ANALYSIS: Ex-CIA: Al Qaida Has Beaten Our Pants Off

page: 1
0
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 08:52 PM
link   
In a scathing interview with the UPI Michael Scheuer, a former top ranking official in the CIA who lead the hunt for bin Laden in 1999 has made public his displeasure with the course the US is taking in the War on Terror. He claims that the US is doomed to lose to terrorism due to bureaucratic inefficiency and an interventionist policy towards the Middle East that will only breed terrorists.
 



interestalert .com
When asked if the United States could win the "war on terror," which was undertaken following the Sept. 11 attacks, Scheuer said: "No. It can't be won. We're going to eventually lose it. And the problem for us is that we're going to lose it much more quickly if we don't start killing more of the enemy."

This, he said, is part of the problem. Scheuer highlighted several instances of legal or bureaucratic hurdles that hampered the targeting of militant leaders, including bin Laden, before the Sept. 11 attacks. He said there were also difficulties with European countries and parts of the Muslim world. European law's prohibiting the transfer of terrorism suspects to countries that have the death penalty has affected U.S. chances of success in the region, he said. Arab countries, in turn, were hampered by bin Laden's popularity among their people.

Scheuer said al-Qaida was winning the propaganda war in the region, especially on the World Wide Web with regular political, military and religious discourses and justification for many of al-Qaida's actions. The core of the movement was made up of true believers and it was controlling the debate in the Islamic world. It also had suspected success in infiltrating U.S., Saudi and Jordanian military and security services.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


Essentially Mr. Scheuer has said that the US is losing the War on Terror on all fronts. The claim that 2/3rd's of al Qaida has been eliminated is "ludicrous" - we can't even estimate how many al Qaida operatives there really are. With our interventionist policies agitating more and more Middle Easterners it only adds to al Qaida's ranks.

Bureaucratically there are many hurdles to be faced."Scheuer recalled that on one occasion, when a plan had been put together to capture bin Laden, U.S. lawyers demanded that an ergonomic chair -- with oxygen and medical supplies -- be built for him so he would be comfortable. They also reviewed the type of tape that would be used to gag the al-Qaida leader." I'm all for humane treatment, but requiring an ergonomic chair for Osama is a bit of a stretch.




posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 09:03 PM
link   
The most shocking thing about this is that a former CIA agent is singing. There was a time when the CIA was air-tight. Now, they get mad, leave, and try to take the nation down with them. Al Qaeda scored big with 9/11, but the fat lady has yet to sing.



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 09:23 PM
link   

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Now, they get mad, leave, and try to take the nation down with them.


I don't think that pointing out the obstacles and where we and others are stepping wrong in this war equates to 'taking down the nation'. On the contrary, I think the reason they do get mad is because the bureaucrats simply don't listen to those who should know.

I think this guy was pointing out that this is a bureacratic failing, not an operational one, and that the bureaucrats will eventually cause total failure.



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 09:30 PM
link   
Indeed she hasn’t sung, But I can see this being true also ( the article) Since Vietnam (The advent of televised war) We will not and have not been able to get away with the things that one has to do when at war. They say war is hell, they mean it.
I am not for just wiping them off the face of the earth, I am some what of a democrat and loath bush, But I imagine that somewhere there are really people in our GOV that know how to solve it and they are ruled buy BS red tape. (even having to discuss a more comfortable chair proves, or the mention of what type of tape) proves it. To many hands spoil the soup they say.

I mean people being outraged after sticking palm trees in the butts of (mostly likely) know insurgents. And we cant even do that in order to save our own people? People you skin is fair to thin. We owe our country to bad things, we wiped out, the millions of Germans and Japs we had to kill in order to stop the war.
Would you take these things back? Surely Germany would have won and there would be so many more Americans lives lost. I mean there is a fine line of innocence here, you are with the people you keep company with. and I am afraid in times of war, and don’t think this isn’t a war, it is. (i am not talking Iraq) You have to do things that are awful. You don’t you WILL lose, because they will and these thing are the things that win war. When your enemy is scared of what will happen, what you can do. They know we are swimming in are own BS and they are laughing at our FAT, Arrogant sit back in our chairs and complain asses.

But I tell you this and THIS IS THE TRUTH. They will get us here, in your home, your chair, your TV dinner WILL BE ruined. and if we don’t ,
1) Change are foreign policy.
2) But the fear of GOD into any who are even thinking of harming us.

Your children will not enjoy the comfort we have been givin by the people who did the right things that needed to be done in war.


Sorry for the rant had to get it off my chest.

=)


[edit on 3-12-2004 by ShiftTrio]



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 09:33 PM
link   
I think his point is well made. The AQ leadership only has to put out a statement or a video at the cost of what 10 dollars? and their target (US usually)becomes fearful, the government responds by spending millions, putting out advisories, and tightening the reins on controlling the masses.
If nothing else, AQ is doing Bush's dirty job of imposing strict controls on the citizenry for him in that regard. But if they do not jest, then they wait, with great patience, and when no one believes the cries of wolf...



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 10:28 PM
link   
Well the thing is that you can attack a country, but you can not kill an ideology, and war on terror is a war on the ideology of a group or race, under this assumption you can not win unless you decimate and entire ethnic group.

And every time we have a video of terrorist group telling that they are targeting US, people feed on fear and that is exactly the purpose of this group, psychological terror is as strong as attacking the US directly, playing with the minds of the American is one of the purpose of terrorist groups.



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 10:51 PM
link   
I agree with the CIA agent's assessment and I agree with Grady. There have been far too many instances where we have held back our troops and methods because of some notion of taking the upper road. The only ones that benefit from this policy are the terrorists, not our national security.

And I agree with Grady that there was a time... but that time is long since gone. There is a benefit to free speech, but there is a time for prudence. And that's the line we crossed long ago, there are those who sing as loud as they can for whatever reason they feel is right. And sometimes, that reason is malicious; to bring down our nation.




posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 11:03 PM
link   

marge said:
Well the thing is that you can attack a country, but you can not kill an ideology, and war on terror is a war on the ideology of a group or race, under this assumption you can not win unless you decimate and entire ethnic group.


100%.

Who wins depends on who has the best 'idea.' the American and British military along with a few from other countries has:
    equipment,
    communications,
    movement,
    intelligence (both intel and education),
    logistics,
    battlefield doctrine

What does Al-Quida have?

I still remember watching Rumsfeld on television- I could tell he never played Texas-hold-em. He smiled like a giddy little girl at the beginning of the American invasion and could barely hold back bragging when the Iraqi army was defeated.

I certainly hope the Americans do NOT lower themselves in to the animal pit of abuse and indiscriminate killing. A bloodbath justifies nothing. It is not God's job to separate them (combatant and non), it is a warriors calling.

If you can't take the high road you shouldn't have made the trip.



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 09:37 AM
link   
I doubt he is singing as some put it or has sung. All he is doing is promoting his book Imperial Hubris author Anonymous (CIA officer Michael Scheuer.)

That seems to be the rage these days quit, then write a book and complain.



[edit on 12/4/2004 by shots]



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 09:54 AM
link   
Terrorism has been going on for centuries, and will continue to do so.
All we and other countries can and need to do, is to make our country a little safer. Can we stop them all? NO. There will always be someone somewhere who does not agree with an ideology or a political belief. Until we realize that for now, this planet is the only place we have to live, and that to continue living on this planet we need to work together as a human race, not as individual races, we will never find the peace so many seek.

Here are some good articles on terrorism


www.cfrterrorism.org...

magma.nationalgeographic.com...



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 12:09 PM
link   
I agree with Scheuer that Al-Qaeda has much more moral legitimacy than the US. Bin Laden's explanations on the reasons for 9/11 are clear and understandable : It's a punishment for the myriad suffering and dying of millions of arabs at the hands of Israel and the US. That's a very sound explanation, one everyone can understand. The Bush administration on the other hand still explains that the atrocities and the mass murder happening in Iraq are some kind of logical consequence of the 3000 victims of 9/11. A historical case they already lost.

I disagree however that AlQaeda is the only responsible for beating the US's pants off. Bush holds, through his infantile and ignorant management of the crisis, at least the same deal of responsibility for the destruction of the US national myth of being a peace-loving force spreading justice and freedom.



[edit on 4-12-2004 by Mokuhadzushi]



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 12:09 PM
link   
Eh, it's mainly George W. Bush and his policies. A few years ago we had Osama Bin Laden cornered in the Tora bora mountains, and who did he send? Did he send the most well trained army in the world? NO, he sent Afghan Warlords to try to capture and k i l l Osama Bin. We also are losing the domestic war on ****** from not being able to protect our civil liberties as Americans, they are failing, and with Bush as President it will take 8 more years to reassess the damage that he's afflicted upon people.



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 02:22 PM
link   

Originally posted by NetStorm
Terrorism has been going on for centuries, and will continue to do so.
All we and other countries can and need to do, is to make our country a little safer. Can we stop them all? NO.
Here are some good articles on terrorism
www.cfrterrorism.org...

magma.nationalgeographic.com...


True netstorm - thanks for the voice of reason...

The world suffered terrorist attacks for decades before the towers were hit. ...And other world governments worked hard to contain the problem and keep it in check. Then along comes the cowboy - and instead of pitching in and working with all the anti-terrorist initiatives already underway - he grandstands. ...And stirs up the hornets without finding the nest (because there isn't one, duh) - and totally escalates the situation.

Bullying only works when the victim rolls. But if the victim fights back, you've got a problem. Now Bush has convinced Muslims everywhere that they need to stick together and fight back. Now we've got a big problem.


.



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 03:32 PM
link   
This information is all a storm in a glass, exaggerating pur sang this is from this man.Another to attempt create more fear and trying to get more money from the senate for a enemy who is atleast incapable(more almost non-existent).
All propaganda for the war machine.

I see right threw them....



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 03:48 PM
link   

Originally posted by Mokuhadzushi
I agree with Scheuer that Al-Qaeda has much more moral legitimacy than the US. Bin Laden's explanations on the reasons for 9/11 are clear and understandable : It's a punishment for the myriad suffering and dying of millions of arabs at the hands of Israel and the US.

[edit on 4-12-2004 by Mokuhadzushi]


Care to elaborate on those millions of arabs that you claimed have died at the hands of the USA. And please do not try and say the first war in Iraq. We did not start the war, Iraq did by attacking Kuiat. Kuiat asked for our help during that war so did several other arab nations. In fact they fought right along side the US.


Must have been one hell of a TOP SECRET WAR.

I have never heard of it and doubt anyone other then a Bin Laden follower has either.

Bin Laden is nothing more then a thug and a coward. A real man would come out and fight rather then hide in the sand and send out others to cut the heads off of innocent women and children.

[edit on 12/4/2004 by shots]



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 04:45 PM
link   

Originally posted by shots

Originally posted by Mokuhadzushi
I agree with Scheuer that Al-Qaeda has much more moral legitimacy than the US. Bin Laden's explanations on the reasons for 9/11 are clear and understandable : It's a punishment for the myriad suffering and dying of millions of arabs at the hands of Israel and the US.

[edit on 4-12-2004 by Mokuhadzushi]


Care to elaborate on those millions of arabs that you claimed have died at the hands of the USA.


I won't to mention the US crimes in South America, Cambodia or Vietnam, you will learn soon enough about them.

The US is supporting and has been supporting several dictatorial regimes that made and make millions suffer everyday. The US has assassinated the democratically elected PM Mossadegh in Iran, in order to replace him with the brutal monarchic regime of the Shah, who's secret police Savak killed and tortured tens of thousands. The US is supporting Israel which is making millions of palestinians suffer everyday and kills thousands of them every year. The US has supported Israel in it's thorough bombing and destruction of Lebanon where hundred of thousands had to flee and hundred thousands died. The US supports Israel's plans for keeping the 800.000 palestinians driven from their land and robbed of their possessions by jewish terrorist groups from returning to their homeland. The US has supported Saddam in his 'just war' against the evil mullahs in Teheran where again millions died. And more, and more and more...

I'm still looking for a comprehensive web resource on US war crimes, does anyone have such a link ?


And please do not try and say the first war in Iraq. We did not start the war, Iraq did by attacking Kuiat. Kuiat asked for our help during that war so did several other arab nations. In fact they fought right along side the US.


Not really true. Kuwait had been warned by Saddam several times not to cross-drill into iraqi soil and refrain from policies that hampered iraqi economic developement. Saddam Hussein, an old friend and ally of the Reagan clan, asked the US if they would intervene in case of him punishing Kuwait. The US said no. So he did it. The stories you heard and saw on TV about iraqi soldiers killing Kuwaiti babies were recorded in London.

As a consequence of this bizarre US behaviour, several hundred thousand iraqis died. In the aftermath of the war, over 500.000 iraqis died from famine. And over 100.000 died when the USA supported shia and kurdish uprisings against Saddam, but didnt help them.


Must have been one hell of a TOP SECRET WAR.
I have never heard of it and doubt anyone other then a Bin Laden follower has either.


You probably live in the United States and have only difficult access to unbiased news sources, so you don't learn anything about US war crimes.


Bin Laden is nothing more then a thug and a coward. A real man would come out and fight rather then hide in the sand and send out others to cut the heads off of innocent women and children.


He's calm, well spoken, and he makes his point. After seeing his tapes or reading his letters, nobody can say this man doesnt do what he does out of a consistent moral stance. Punishing one of the most hideous war criminals in world history. Plus he's rather good-looking.



[edit on 4-12-2004 by Mokuhadzushi]

[edit on 4-12-2004 by Mokuhadzushi]

[edit on 4-12-2004 by Mokuhadzushi]



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 05:14 PM
link   
Make of it what you like, there are some very good reasons why Scheuer is an EX-CIA employee.

Everything I have seen from this guy since he went public -- along with the fact that he went public at all -- explains why he no longer works there.

Hint: It's not because he got the job done.



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 05:16 PM
link   
Well...I stopped reading as soon as he said "We should start killing more of the enemy." This is exactly what feeds more hatered towards the U.S. in the Whole region...I mean you can kill thousands upon 000's,but if you do not try to tackle this fom another angle just for the sake of seeing what would happen...more & more fighters will join.
Let's take for example the way the Britsh army handled the situation in Basra..They've done a great job with trying to understand the enemy rather than just going in all guns blazing...It was a success...they even gained respect from the 'Enemy'..
with all the resources available to the U.S.,why can't they try approching this in a psychological manner..They might just find out that they should have done that a long time ago..
We saw the TV clips of the joy of the Iraqi people when the statue of Saddam was brought down...But war did'nt stop there,and tried to win the support of the people..No it went completely pear shapped ,and it will end up as a pie befor any progress can be made...if any..!!

Arabs are a proud people,they have this ideal of 'Death befor dishonour', why can't anybody see this obviouse reality that you can't put out the flames by throwing gasoline on it...it's that simple..
But The issue is also that the U.S. and it's chief has an even harder head,and if he thinks that as long as the elections in january will proceed and all problems will be solved,He's got another thing coming..
Now if he just want's to proove the whole World that He will make these Ellections work and that it would in any way mean that he won this fight....well he's gonna be very dissapointed and the lives he's putting on the line for prooving this insane theory,,well it's just sad..
But You know What's even sader...The families of those fallen soldiers..and he get's re-ellected..Well that just blows me away...
You know,sometimes I wonder if the Hawks just need this sort of thing called War, to proove their power...afterall the huge investments in research & development of new weapons,where else could they be prooven to be the best there is but in a war...



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 05:52 PM
link   

Originally posted by Horus_Re
Well...I stopped reading as soon as he said "We should start killing more of the enemy."


If you would have gone on to read the rest of the article he says basically what you've said:


.....another problem the United States faced in fighting terrorism was its allies in the Arab world. Since many of those leaders were unpopular among their own people, it was difficult to persuade them to rally against bin Laden who enjoys wide support.

"They don't it, and it's because bin Laden is the only leader in the Islamic world," he said, "a heroic figure."

He said the war on Iraq, unpopular in the Muslim world, had further hurt U.S. efforts in bringing everyone to the same side, adding it was hard for someone in that part of the world to speak against bin Laden without seeming to support U.S. policies in the Middle East -- especially backing Israel -- the West's need for low oil prices, and the continuation of "tyrannical" regimes in the Arab world.

These factors, he argued, mandated a rethink of U.S. policy.

"Unless we change or at least consider changing our policies in the Middle East, the room for bin Laden or bin Ladenism to grow is virtually unlimited," Scheuer said.

He further dismissed Western assessments that bin Laden and his group targeted the United States and Europe because they hate Western culture. He said though they might not want a Western approach to life, their goals were policy-driven.

"They're attacking us because of our unqualified support for Israel. They're attacking us because we've helped cement on their heads tyrannies in the Arab world ... for the last 40 years," he said. They're attacking us because we're in the Arabian Peninsula and it happens to be a holy place for them."



If you kill all of the enemy, you will win eventually. I took that as a comment that our current policy of killing off the terrorists will fail if we don't start killing more, not that we "should" go kill more people.



I tend to trust an Ex-CIA official much more than I'll trust a CIA official, but that's just me.



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 05:56 PM
link   
Well,my mistake I have'nt anticipated that he would go on saying that..and i JUMPED THE GUN....



new topics

top topics



 
0
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join