Gays Going straight? Can it happen?

Originally posted by ZeroDeep
Ed, how does that show me that Jesus Christ condenmed homosexuality? It just shows me that Christ is the "supposed" right hand of God.

It's okay, Ed, I am not leaving this site anytime soon --unless I banned for something.

Deep

You miss the point again, let me spell it out for you. Christ IS God, the Creator, and therefore HE said so in the old Testament. God the Father, God the Son are one in the same...

You think it's ok for you to sin cause your not perfect and you'll be forgiven....so why can't they believe and be forgiven too....none of it makes any sense Ed...if you can be saved at the last moment so can they.....get over it and leave people alone.

Originally posted by edsinger

Originally posted by EnronOutrunHomerun

Just out of curiosity, as I admittedly havn't read much from the Bible....

Is this where that "old wive's tale" has its roots that suggests if you have too much sex you will go blind?

For me, this is just further proof that the Bible is a great story...and that's it...The End....

no its an attempted rape of an angelic being by the sodomites, it is where the term sodomy originates. You know what happened next right? Sodom and Gomorrah? Boom!

so...instead of a man being raped, it was two girls? Thats just a bad!

You miss the point again, let me spell it out for you. Christ IS God, the Creator, and therefore HE said so in the old Testament. God the Father, God the Son are one in the same...

The Bible may state that Christ is God, but that does not make a mythical character a God. I asked you to give me a qoute where Jesus goes against the homosexual orientiation. The trinitarian belief has nothing to do with the topic at hand, and in initself is Church dogma created around 381 A.D. in the second Niean creed: it's roots can be found in the works of Philo.

I am not sure what your argument aqainst homosexuality is anymore. It's been proven time after time to be non-deliterious to soceity, and popular documented research points it to by a biological predisposition; not a pyschological causation early in a childs life.

Homosexuals may start to copulate with women/men, but does that make them hetrosexuals, or better people ?

Deep

Originally posted by ZeroDeep
The Bible may state that Christ is God, but that does not make a mythical character a God. I asked you to give me a qoute where Jesus goes against the homosexual orientiation. The trinitarian belief has nothing to do with the topic at hand, and in initself is Church dogma created around 381 A.D. in the second Niean creed: it's roots can be found in the works of Philo.

No Deep, when asked if He said "I AM" and therefore claimed He was God, why do you think the Jews claimed Blasphemy! As for the quotes, there are many in the old testament and New testament, no need to repeat them as you cant seem to even consider God a reality. The trinity was given that name to clarify the position in the Gnostic argument, the doctrine was sound as was stated in the scriptures themselves.

Originally posted by LadyV
You think it's ok for you to sin cause your not perfect and you'll be forgiven.

...so why can't they believe and be forgiven too....

Absolutely! They can! They must repent first...

[edit on 7-12-2004 by edsinger]

Ed, you asked a question ....or did you? Did you start this to seek some answers or to point to yet another group of 'sinners' who must 'repent' as an excuse to preach the bible, which may not even be an accurate source having been written and rewritten, interpreted and translated many times over.... by men, not God. Why haven't you even tried to understand that homosexuality may not be a choice but a physiological predisposition - did you even read the links I posted as evidence that this might possibly be true? Should you 'repent' for the colour of your eyes?



[edit on 8-12-2004 by c_au]

I have read them or parts anyway, it is not proven either way. If it was true that they were born that way then how could they change?

Those studies show that there are differences in the neuroanatomy between gay and straight men ...

Like you said you can't change the colour of your eyes - you may put on some lenses so they appear a different colour, but the truth is your eyes have not changed colour.



[edit on 8-12-2004 by c_au]

Originally posted by edsinger
I have read them or parts anyway, it is not proven either way. If it was true that they were born that way then how could they change?

If you can prove that they actually have changed, which you haven't, then it still doesn't disprove anything.
How can some one change?
Very carefully. Let me give you an example why what I have said is true.

You can "claim" that you were "born straight" but if every one you knew made you unhappy enough about it and told you that it was wrong and sick and that God hated you for it, well, I could easily "change" you with the same techniques that you claim are disproving the "born gay" theory.


[edit on 8-12-2004 by I_AM_that_I_AM]

Originally posted by I_AM_that_I_AM
You can "claim" that you were "born straight" but if every one you knew made you unhappy enough about it and told you that it was wrong and sick and that God hated you for it, well, I could easily "change" you with the same techniques that you claim are disproving the "born gay" theory.

I think it's basically just forcing people back into the closet but then trying to nail the door shut.. there may be people who have been [as in practicing] gay.. turned 'straight', gotten married, had kids but as we're not in their homes no-one knows if they are truly happy, just faking it and smiling for the propaganda... or whether or not they feel like throwing up everytime they have hetero sex because they are doing something that feels unatural to them. People are up in arms and paranoid that gays are trying to turn their kids gay.. but they've got no probs trying to coerce gay people into having straight sex by shaming and abusing them with bible quotes. Sounds very unethical to me.. god's madmen.

Look it hasn't been proved that anyone can be born gay. I do not know that I was born straight but I made the choice to be. I knew guys that where a bit on the feminine side in high school and they got picked on sure, but no more than I did for other reasons. People can be cruel is just a fact we deal with all the time. These guys probably did grow up gay as they had been told they were all their lives, sadly.

There are those that believe that with a change of heart, turning your life over to Christ can rid one of this problem, it is unnatural in my eyes, but maybe it is not in other peoples eyes.

Thing is, I do not want to be forced to accept it as normal practice and grant these people (some fine folks no doubt) any special rights because they chose this lifestyle.


Prove to me that it is natural and genetic or a born condition. Until one can prove it to me, I will believe what my Creator says.

Ed, in my view people who are gay cannot explain why they're gay - it's just the way it is. I don't think you consciously or unconsciously make a choice to be hetero or homosexual. You just realize at some point that you are what you are. It's not intellectual, it's not emotional, it's much, much deeper than that.

I'm a Canadian, and a French one at that. I'm also a heterosexual. Whether it comes from nature, from education or from genetic memory, I didn't choose originally. I grew into it, but I didn't choose to be all that. However, you take all that from me, and I'm much, much lesser than I was.

Originally posted by edsingerLook it hasn't been proved that anyone can be born gay.

It hasn't been proven that God exists, even though we both know that he does. Something's you just know. I find it very hypocritical that someone who takes soemthing as big as God's existance on faith is demanding "proof" that something they belive in isn't true.

Originally posted by edsingerI do not know that I was born straight but I made the choice to be.

No you didn't. A number of factors, including genetics and environment and things that you were exposed to during your developement caused you to be straight. I does not simply "choose" to be gay or straight. One becomes gay or straight. And yes, you can deny this and even-with the help of others- convince yourself that you are something else. However, no one has "proven" that you "choose to be gay" either.

Originally posted by edsinger I knew guys that where a bit on the feminine side in high school and they got picked on sure, but no more than I did for other reasons.

Being feminine doesn't mean that you are gay. Being Gay doesn't that mean you are feminine. So stop changing the subject.

Originally posted by edsinger These guys probably did grow up gay as they had been told they were all their lives, sadly.

Who in the hell are you talking about?
And what in the world gave you that idea?
*meanwhile back in the real world...*

Originally posted by edsingerThere are those that believe that with a change of heart, turning your life over to Christ can rid one of this problem, it is unnatural in my eyes, but maybe it is not in other peoples eyes.

What problem? Their are many who believe that turning your life over to Christ means that you must except who you truly are despite other's rampant lies that it's an "abomination".

Originally posted by edsingerThing is, I do not want to be forced to accept it as normal practice

No one is forcing you to accept it as "normal practice." Doesn't mean that you should get to call them insane and lock them up if they dare to epress their love for each other in a physical manner.

Originally posted by edsingerand grant these people (some fine folks no doubt) any special rights because they chose this lifestyle.

Contrary to what you would like people to believe, gay's do not want "special rights." They just want to be treated like you. Or are you given "special rights" that I didn't know about?

Originally posted by edsingerProve to me that it is natural and genetic or a born condition.

Prove, scientifically, that God exists, or do you now expect us to have faith all of a sudden?

Originally posted by edsingerUntil one can prove it to me, I will believe what my Creator says.

Then do so, and stop throwing stones...

Look ed, we know that you don't claim to be perfect, but you are saying that your better tha gay people by claiming that they are unrepentant sinners. How do you know that they don't ask God to forgive ALL their sins?
Now don't try to tell me that you don't sin, as you have said that you do on other threads.
But you do ask God for forgiveness right?
So why can't other imperfect sinners do the same, and expect to get into heaven?
I mean if they haven't harmed people(like murderers/theives) and if they've settled down with someone they genuinlly care about, what's so "abomination"able/"goingtohell"-able about that?

[edit on 11-12-2004 by I_AM_that_I_AM]

Originally posted by edsinger
I do not know that I was born straight but I made the choice to be.

when exactly did you make that decision? Was it the moment that you were informed about the birds and the bees according to the slightly more wordly kid down the street, and you chose to be attracted to women rather than men, despite your very limited carnal knowledge at the time? Please tell me. When exactly does a child just starting to learn about sexuality make that decision, when they hardly know anything about the subject?

Lucky you Ed. In my case it was feeling terrified, trying to find any excuse from it's just a phase to the right girl hasn't come along (like any hetero, hormone rampant teenage boy needs anything more than a vagina and breasts on legs right!) and eventually making myself go with a girl because once I'd actually got a taste of the joys of man and woman sex all this homo nonsense would evaporate yes? Unfortunately no! Just confirmed what I knew all along and that began the slow painful process of coming to terms with what and who I am. As a casual choice it comes a pretty close second to sado masochism. Not something I'm particularly into.

Originally posted by edsinger
Look it hasn't been proved that anyone can be born gay. I do not know that I was born straight but I made the choice to be. .

I disagree with this statement. I never made a choice about my sexuality and if you had to it explains a lot. I have allways been attracted to women , the thought of male on male sex makes me want to vomit. I imagine they feel the same toward male/female sex.

Different strokes for different folks, I dont bother them and they dont bother me.

Life is too short to be worried about what other people are doing, just live and let live. It may be against your religion but eating meat is against a Hindus religion so should we ALL have to give it up because it is against one segments religion?

Originally posted by edsinger
Look it hasn't been proved that anyone can be born gay. I do not know that I was born straight but I made the choice to be. .

So are you saying you gave consideration to living a gay lifestyle but ultimately rejected it? Otherwise, you can hardly say you chose to be straight.

Originally posted by edsinger

Originally posted by ZeroDeep
I asked you to give me a qoute where Jesus goes against the homosexual orientiation. The trinitarian belief has nothing to do with the topic at hand,

As for the quotes, there are many in the old testament and New testament, no need to repeat them as you cant seem to even consider God a reality.

Actually the real reason he doesn't post them is that when he did post them In other threads they are all either proven to be mistranslations or to be from Paul whom disagres with Christ on a number of issues.

Originally posted by LadyV
You think it's ok for you to sin cause your not perfect and you'll be forgiven.

...so why can't they believe and be forgiven too....

Absolutely! They can! They must repent first...

Repent from what? Sinning?
Do you repent for sinning?
Does that mean you that you've stopped sinning and so are perfect now?
You've already stated that you aren't perfect and so must continue to sin. So what makes gay's special?

Originally posted by I_AM_that_I_AMActually the real reason he doesn't post them is that when he did post them In other threads they are all either proven to be mistranslations or to be from Paul whom disagres with Christ on a number of issues.

No I think not, Pauline Christianity is just fine with Christ's teachings. After all it was Christ himself who 'changed' Saul.