Gays Going straight? Can it happen?

Ed, stop qouting the Old Testement; we've come along ways from the morals and values of a xenophic clan god in the middle of a dessert.

Homosexuality is natural, not deliterious to society, and has been, anthropologicaly speaking, inherent in most societies the world over wielding any harm to those societies.

Christians need to become straight.

Deep

Originally posted by EnronOutrunHomerun

Just out of curiosity, as I admittedly havn't read much from the Bible....

Is this where that "old wive's tale" has its roots that suggests if you have too much sex you will go blind?

For me, this is just further proof that the Bible is a great story...and that's it...The End....

no its an attempted rape of an angelic being by the sodomites, it is where the term sodomy originates. You know what happened next right? Sodom and Gomorrah? Boom!

Originally posted by ZeroDeep
Ed, stop qouting the Old Testement;

I shall not because it is still part of the story......Homosexuality has been here a very long time indeed and God didnt like it then either.

I shall not because it is still part of the story......Homosexuality has been here a very long time indeed and God didnt like it then either.

That's subjective: you're ascertaining a hypothetical stance: That God exists, and his word is postulate and categoricaly universal. This is simply not true, for we know the circulatory logic of the Bible is full of many external/internal contradictions and relies on faith, not emperical date; "a priori " to be exact.

God may have abhored to a certain "cult" activity thousands of years ago, in an isolated region of the globe, but he has in no way, made himself present to demonize this behaviour currently.

One remember a certain even in the last supper that comes up every so often on these forums and brings great resentment by the Christian zealots abroad: When Jesus's "beloved" disciple James rested his head on his Bussom, and shared secrets..

Deep

Originally posted by ZeroDeepOne remember a certain even in the last supper that comes up every so often on these forums and brings great resentment by the Christian zealots abroad: When Jesus's "beloved" disciple James rested his head on his Bussom, and shared secrets..Deep

Its obvious that you don't believe and thats fine, but to even imply the Christ had a sexual relation with his disciple misses every point he ever taught.

No proof of him, the Bible has many proofs, but you deny. It is your choice.

Its obvious that you don't believe and thats fine, but to even imply the Christ had a sexual relation with his disciple misses every point he ever taught.

No proof of him, the Bible has many proofs, but you deny. It is your choice.

"Jesus Christ" never mentions homosexuality; his various acts of a queer nature are ascribed to him though, however, he, himself, never adovocates against the "sinfull" nature of homosexuality. You can pull as many qoutes out of the Bible as you may, I'am quite sure you shall never come across any that condenm homosexual behaviour, in the words of Jesus.

What proofs do the Bible insinuate as postulate? I see "morals and values" which are deemed universal, but have been counter-productive in this current society, this is all. I'am not sure what proofs you are talking about, Ed.

I'am not going to deny anything; I simply refuse to be a victom of conceptual habituation and dismiss what Humans laud every so often: Reason.

Deep

PS. I've noticed a contradictory stance advocated by Christians: You use the Old Testement when speaking out against Homosexuality, yet ignore it when it comes to the Xenophic behaviour of YAWEH, and dismiss it as not relevent to Christianity. You either abide by it, or you don't. You can't pick and choose.



[edit on 7-12-2004 by ZeroDeep]

Well deep you must understand the difference between the old Testament and the New. You have to understand what the Gospel was.

As to your Jesus never spoke against homosexuality directly, first do you know who He was?


2nd,


So that means it's okay, right?

Consider these facts:

(1)He also never said anything about rape, incest or domestic violence. Are those things okay, too?

(2)There are many teachings and deeds of Christ that are not included in the Gospel accounts, as John writes in John 21:25.

(3)Christ did say that God created people "in the beginning" as male and female, and that marriage is the union of one man and one woman joined together as "one flesh". (Matthew 19:4-6 and Mark 10:6-9) Nothing is said about any other type of union.

(4)When He discussed sexual morality, Christ had a very high standard, clearly affirming long-standing Jewish law. He told the woman caught in adultery to "Go and sin no more." (John 8:11) He warned people not only that the act of adultery was wrong, but even adulterous thoughts. (Matthew 5:28) And he shamed the woman at the well (John 4:18) by pointing out to her that he knew she was living with a man who was not her husband.

(5)Christ used the destruction of the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah as an example of God's wrath (Matthew 10:15, Mark 6:11, Luke 10:12, and Luke 17:29). Throughout the Old Testament, prophets clearly described these cities as being notorious for the practice of homosexuality. (Genesis 18:20, Genesis 19:4-5, Isaiah 3:9, Jeremiah 23:14, Ezekiel 16:46-59). Jesus certainly knew that this was how the comparison would be understood.

(6)Christ was God incarnate (in the flesh) here on earth. He was the long-expected Messiah, which was revealed in Matthew 16:13- 20, Matthew 17:5-9, Mark 8:27-30, Luke 4:16-30, Luke 9: 18-21, John 4:25-26, John 8:57-59 and elsewhere. As one with God, He was present from the beginning (John 1:1-13; Colossians 1:15-17; Ephesians 3:9 and elsewhere). So, Jesus was part of the Godhead as the laws were handed down through Moses to Israel and eventually to the whole world. This Old Testament law clearly prohibited homosexuality (Genesis 19, Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13; Deuteronomy 23:18 and elsewhere). The apostles understood this also, as shown by Paul's writing in Romans 1:24-27, Peter's in 2 Peter 2:4-22, and John's in Revelation 22:15.

source


Goodnight all!



[edit on 7-12-2004 by edsinger]

Ed, those gospels are "according to Mark", they are not the words of the fictational man who never appears in history, and is startingly perfunctory (sarcams) to numerous figures that pre-date himself.

Once again, I asked you wether or not Jesus condenmed homosexuality; I could care less wether or not he was mistranslated as the Son of God.

Deep

I know a guy who went through some confusion about his sexual identity in his teens and was gay for a while, then fell in love with woman and settled down with her. I know one guy who is married to a woman and fools around with men. I also know gay guys who never have been and never will be aroused by a woman, try as they might.

.... in fact one of my best friends falls into that category and the concept of being aroused by a woman had never even occured to him all through his puberty when hormones were rampant. He is kind, intelligent, fun, courteous, sensitive, well-dressed, artistic, loves and respects women, and men .... and is in a loving, long-term, monogamous relationship. He has exquisite taste and gives me the loveliest and most thoughtful gifts. When he was in his 20's, he tried having intimate relationships with 2 different women because he wanted to be 'normal' for his parents who at first disapproved - but just couldn't get it up with them and the experiences were disastrous. He is what he is ... and he is a beautiful human being.

There ARE physiological and neuroanatomical differences between homosexual and heterosexual men.

www-news.uchicago.edu...
www-news.uchicago.edu...

It is not a choice ... truly homosexual men are just born that way - that is their make-up, that is how they are - they cannot change it. And anyway why would you want them to? I mean ... so what if they're gay?



[edit on 7-12-2004 by c_au]

Originally posted by edsinger
When I look at an attractive woman with a nice figure and my mind runs, I have just sinned myself and have just committed a sexually immoral act in need of forgiveness.

Then I guess I'm WAY into sin. Especially when spring comes around and woman don their first skirts of the season...

Actually, that's why some neo-Christians are clamoring for a return of "modest" clothing for women - so they don't induce man to sin.

Can gays go straight? Sure!

I can also become a slave to ideals that I know are wrong for me.

There's a lot sinning going on by a lot of men and woman that call themselves Christians. Much more than is going on because of homosexuals, but for some reason there is a large group of Christians that have singled the gay community out to pick on while not curbing their own sin....Oh yeah.....they can sin all they want because they're forgiven

Romans 13:13- 14 "Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the sinful nature"

Do not lust in your heart after her beauty or let her captivate you with her eyes, for the prostitute reduces you to a loaf of bread. - Pro. 6:25. - NIV

Matt. 5:27, �You have heard that it was said, �You shall not commit adultery�; 28 but I say to you, that everyone who looks on a woman to lust for her has committed adultery with her already in his heart."
1 Cor. 6:18, "Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body."
Col. 3:5, "Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry."


The list could go on and on...to not wearing make up, many think masturbation is a sin....pornography not to mention the lying, cheating and so much more that is considered sinful but done regularly anyway.

Originally posted by edsinger
No the Creator made sex fun and enjoyable, but with consequences if pursued haphazardly.

Disease, accidental pregnancy or infidelity. Not some nonsense from a flawed book about a flawed religion supposedly created by a flawed, spooky, invisable father figure.

Originally posted by edsinger
No proof of him, the Bible has many proofs, but you deny. It is your choice.

There is no proof in the bible. The bible is a book, which is printed, packaged and sold by humans. If god was so undeniably proven it wouldn't be such the issue now would it.

I'm curious, ed, and any other religious zealot out there. What if, someday you find your religion to be completely and utterly false? Would you be able to admit it and live with it? Or is your existance solely dependant on heresay?...


[edit on 7-12-2004 by Thorfinn Skullsplitter]

Originally posted by Thorfinn Skullsplitter
I'm curious, ed, and any other religious zealot out there. What if, someday you find your religion to be completely and utterly false? Would you be able to admit it and live with it? Or is your existance solely dependant on heresay?...

Ya know....there is something that the Catholic church is keeping from the public.....no, I can't give a link because I have searched and can't find it...but I remember hearing back in the earlier 90's that the church would not release the information in the year 2000 as they had said they would, because the world wasn't ready for it as they thought it would be. It has something to do with the Dead Sea Scrolls...something found that if released, would completely change religion as we know it. I have thought about this a lot, trying to figure out what it could be. Extraterrestrials? Something to do with Jesus...that would certainly change Christianity and the Jewish faith if it had to do with Jesus.......organized religion is, in my opinion, nothing like what people think it is...

Originally posted by LadyV
Ya know....there is something that the Catholic church is keeping from the public.....no, I can't give a link because I have searched and can't find it...but I remember hearing back in the earlier 90's that the church would not release the information in the year 2000 as they had said they would, because the world wasn't ready for it as they thought it would be. It has something to do with the Dead Sea Scrolls

I recall the same thing, but unfortinetly not what it was pertaining too.

Ya know....there is something that the Catholic church is keeping from the public.....no, I can't give a link because I have searched and can't find it...but I remember hearing back in the earlier 90's that the church would not release the information in the year 2000 as they had said they would, because the world wasn't ready for it as they thought it would be. It has something to do with the Dead Sea Scrolls...something found that if released, would completely change religion as we know it. I have thought about this a lot, trying to figure out what it could be. Extraterrestrials? Something to do with Jesus...that would certainly change Christianity and the Jewish faith if it had to do with Jesus.......organized religion is, in my opinion, nothing like what people think it is...

Maybe that Christianity is a poor rip-off of Egyptian mythology, no ? Forgive my confrontational countenance; some things are meant to be taken harshly.

Deep

Originally posted by ZeroDeep

Maybe that Christianity is a poor rip-off of Egyptian mythology
Deep

This is very, very likely! A good possibility!

More than just a possibility: an absolute postulation. You may want to read Alvin Boyd Kuhn; he's wrote a great deal on the subject. One just has to take a glance at the Egyptian religion. But, alas, this is not a thread about the historicity of Christ or the origins of Christianity, it's about homosexuality.

Deep

Originally posted by ZeroDeep
Ed, those gospels are "according to Mark", they are not the words of the fictational man who never appears in history, and is startingly perfunctory (sarcams) to numerous figures that pre-date himself.
Once again, I asked you wether or not Jesus condenmed homosexuality; I could care less wether or not he was mistranslated as the Son of God.
Deep

To answer your question of wether Christ condemed homosexuality,

Mat 26:63 But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God."
Mat 26:64 "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

Luk 22:70 They all asked, "Are you then the Son of God?" He replied, "You are right in saying I am."

Rev 1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."

Rev 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End




So in this he lets the reader know that he IS God. Therefore the answer to your question is YES.

Originally posted by LadyV
Ya know....there is something that the Catholic church is keeping from the public.....no, I can't give a link because I have searched and can't find it...but I remember hearing back in the earlier 90's that the church would not release the information in the year 2000 as they had said they would, because the world wasn't ready for it as they thought it would be. It has something to do with the Dead Sea Scrolls

It was about Fatima , and the destruction of the world. The Dead Sea Scrolls although showing that the Jews preserved the Word very well indeed were kept by a sect of Jews called the Essenes. Their is no 'secret' about Jesus in them.

Ed, how does that show me that Jesus Christ condenmed homosexuality? It just shows me that Christ is the "supposed" right hand of God.

It's okay, Ed, I am not leaving this site anytime soon --unless I banned for something.

Deep