Gays Going straight? Can it happen?

Well since this seems to come up quite a bit, I thought we should discuss this one in depth.



Going straight

Revered by the religious right and bolstered by a supposedly scientific theory, a new wave of therapist-gurus claim they can 'cure' homosexuality. Their success rate is hotly contested. Decca Aitkenhead joins a rally of would-be converts in Nashville.

Saturday April 3, 2004
The Guardian

Drew Sermon's family drove for seven hours to be here. Here are his father, Randy, and his mother, Shavon. Drew's uncle and aunt, Rich and Susan, are here, too. So are his grandparents, Chuck and Carol. Together they have brought Drew all the way from Indiana to Nashville, Tennessee, because last October Drew - only 18 years old and the darling of the family - told them he was gay. They do not know what else to do.
The Love Won Out conference is taking place in a Baptist church beside a busy freeway. It is a modern building of chocolate brown brick, closer in style and scale to a convention centre than a place of worship. A thousand people have gathered inside. Some are here because of the devastating incompatibility of their religious faith and their sexual feelings. Others are here because - as one seminar title puts it - "Someone I Love Is Gay". People have come from as far as New York and California, and what everyone wants to hear is Love Won Out's magical promise: that homosexuality can be cured.



Going straight




So where does this put the Bisexual? Are they gay or not? They only get half the gay gene?Gays want people to accept their choices and show intolerance, but is it a double standard?

GAY INTOLERANCE. Sound contradictory? It's not. And I'm not talking about so-called heterophobia, the mainstream's latest claim to victimhood. I'm talking about real prejudice from parts of the gay and lesbian establishment, right here in the Sexual Mecca. Even more surprising? It's aimed at another queer population: bisexuals. About two years ago, I came out as bisexual. I anticipated many hurdles, but I could never have predicted this one. As gay people fight homophobia in society at large, we fight ``biphobia'' in queer circles. To be fair, many gay men and lesbians embrace the diversity that bisexuals and transgendered people add to the queer mix. But it might not be obvious to an outsider -- and it certainly defies logic -- some can be as small-minded as their oppressors. Members of this border patrol demand that bisexuals ``make up our minds'' while imploring the rest of the world to show tolerance for their sexuality. Some even occasionally cross their own lines and have opposite-sex flings.

Sound mixed up? It is.

In Gay, Straight Circles, Bisexuals Are the Outcasts




Gay or straight: can you really "change"?

The difference between orientation and behavior
The transformation in David's life underscores the issue of whether sexual orientation is a choice or a predisposition�a topic that invokes passionate debate among health care professionals and religious adherents.

The American Psychological Association defines sexual orientation as "an emotional, romantic, sexual or affectional attraction to individuals of a particular gender." But, sexual orientation is different from sexual behavior. Sexual orientation is merely an innate attraction. This doesn't mean that people will express their sexual orientation in their behaviors. In other words, it is possible to be attracted to the same sex without acting on it.

How people develop a particular sexual orientation is not well understood, according to the American Psychological Association. However, many scientists share the view that for most people, sexual orientation is shaped at an early age by a complex interaction of various factors.

Gay or straight: can you really "change"?



Can Gays Go Straight?

Can Gays Go Straight?
On May 9, 2001, Dr. Robert Spitzer released what was described by the major media* as "explosive" findings in his research of homosexuals that claimed to have changed their orientation from gay to straight. As a major proponent for the 1973 decision to remove homosexuality from the American Psychiatric Association's list of disorders--which added to his credibility for some observers--Spitzer's press conference made waves in a greater way than it ordinarily would have. Days before the release, gay advocates were denouncing the study.**



A recent Internet-wide search on Google.com turned up coverage by major news outlets, including CNN, MSNBC and The Washington Post, featuring the story of Spitzer's research couched in highly skeptical language. They emphasized claims of tainted research and appealed, in one case, to the claim of duplicity by some ex-gays. However, they did not tell both sides and failed to report the views of even the most pro-gay people who question widely-accepted notions such as genetic causes for homosexuality. We seek to balance the information here and provide hope to those homosexuals who truly desire change.

Many Great Links on this page


Can Gays Go Straight?


[edit on 3-12-2004 by edsinger]

[edit on 3-12-2004 by edsinger]

Don we already have enough "gay" threads going?

Originally posted by dgtempe
Don we already have enough "gay" threads going?

Look this is an aspect that IS not being discussed, I have been asked about it and my opinion is they can and was asked for proof. Here is the thread to talk and discuss the SPECIFIC subject of can gay people change or are they born that way (genetic).

Personally, I don't care whether it's genetic, developed or whatever. I just care about people being happy. If some gay people actually go through an epiphany that makes a heterosexual lifestyle the choice that makes them happy (I have two gay friends to whom it happened... they fell in love, and now define themselves as bisexual), then good. If homosexuals feel that living their lives with a member of the same sex will make them the most happy, then good.

What I wouldn't want is for homosexuals to be forced to attend "prayer sessions" or "therapy". They're still human beings, free of making their own choices.

For example, that young guy in the article... I sure hope he won't pretend to be "saved" just to please his family. He's young, and he knows his family is putting a lot of hope in this... a lot of people would sacrifice themselves to keep the love of their family.

Good point ed.

I know of people who have said they were gay for a while then realised they were straight or bi. Some people just get confused in a period of their lives while trying to find their identity.

As for forcing people to become straight... impossible... its like trying to force someone to fall in love with you... it just wont happen. The best that will happen is the person will pretend to be straight to shut whoever it is up that is intefering in their lives. But deep down inside they will still be gay.

How about just leaving people the hell alone as a solution. When's the last time you had a gay guy come to your door telling you of the "gay agenda?" Never...

I do however remember religious people coming to my door telling me of their agenda...

With all the post on gay that ed has done around here I got the feeling that ed is fixated about gays.

This is another thread that will end on gay bashing as the other ones.

And then again perhaps ed wants somebody to tell him that by the grace of god gays get redeem and become god loving straight.

Thats what you want people to say? ed.

Or you just want people to start bashing.

Not one word of bashing, I am just seeking the answer, CAN THEY CHANGE?

I think they can which shows that it is not Genetic so lets continue on with the questions and not turn it into a bashing thread.

Hello Ed...

Here's something I found you may be interested in (probably not though...)

It has been recognized that it is not only not possible to change a person from gay to straight, but it is also very damaging to the person to whom this is done.

Not sure if you will care much for what this website has to say since it's not religiously based but, The American Psychological Association stated that scientific evidence does not show that conversion therapy works and that it can do more harm than good.

APA Considers Gay Conversion Therapy

Also, you fail to mention the many Christian communities that accept homosexuals for who they are and don't go out of their ways to convert them Not all Christians for that matter, agree with you that homosexuality is wrong...

I'm sure all the homosexuals on ATS appreciate your deep concern over their eternal souls

ETA this eye-opening site ...
Ex-gay ministries



[edit on 12/4/2004 by Lecky]

I really doubt it Ed.

Anyone can say they have been "fixed" and go through the motions but does it change who they actually are? I have seen several deeply religious gay friends struggle for years in a futile attempt to make their god happy while trying to be true to their heart. Where does it get them - depression, isolation and unhappiness.

I cannot even imagine what kind of nightmare life must be for someone who is gay and thinks their lifestyle is an abomination.

So IMO this kind of therapy may give the appearance of results, but I honestly doubt you can change someone sexual preference. Ask yourself if it could change yours?

And by all means take a look at Lecky's link - it has some excellent information in it.

B.

This is disgusting, this reminds me of the Church of Christ, they used to advertise their church to gay people at universities saying that their church accepts them, then when all the enthusiastic gay religious studens gathered at their first meeting, they locked the doors and forced them all to "pray the gay away".

Homosexuality has been with us since ancient times, its not going to go away or be "cured". You need to stop cherry picking verses in the bible to suit your particular feelings towards certain people, What Would Jesus Do rightwingers?

Fundy Hypocrites.

[edit on 4-12-2004 by electric squid carpet]

It may be that those people who changed were not actually gay at all, but actually bisexual. Maybe they're first attraction was with somebody of the same gender, so therefore they thought they were gay. They're minds kinda turned off to the thoughts that they could like anybody of a different gender until they decided to "change". The similiar effect of the mind turning off to certain belief is also why some people who are gay shrugged off the possibility that they are and is in a sort of denial of it until they can't anymore.

Also, my English teacher, from last year, when she discussed this subject, actually stated that she heard that 80% of people were actually bisexual but because of the fact that the media is so anti-gay, they never really realize that they are. It all comes down to needing to release sexual energy, and if they were only with people of the same gender of a long amount of time, then they would have to relieve the sexual energy eventually, and this would cause them to eventually make love to people the same gender (ie. the prison effect). This is what my english teacher said and i don't nessecarily agree with it, so please don't flame me because of it. lol
To add to the arguement my English teacher made, however, i watch a lot of late night talk shows, and when Colin Farrell was discussing the movie Alexander, he said that many Romans freely made love with people of different and the same genders because it was considered acceptable.

Edited to add capital letters because i was too lazy to, but that made it look bad. lol

[edit on 4-12-2004 by AlienS]

Have you ever considered Ed that this therapy could also be used to turn straight people gay! What does it prove about gay/straight sexuality, people can be brainwashed to commit horrendous acts they were never originally capable of, again it says nothing about their original inclination.

haha! Lets turn all hardcore fundamentalist christian rednecks gay! It will be my first act as supreme ruler of the universe (which can't be too far away)

on a less serious note, why would you want to turn gay people straight? Diversity is what makes the world interesting. Next they'll be trying to turn blacks into whites, because it might make life marginally easier for the black who lives in the south. Sure, in the short term, turning a gay person straight might make it easier for them to live in an increasingly oppressive society, but it would be a denial and betrayal of self.

[edit on 4-12-2004 by General Zapata]

The "Lets all be Gay Society" has discovered that a strict regime of drugs,beatings, prison sex, and being forced to watch 'teletubies' while having sex with a Jerry Falwell love doll that 99.9% of heterosexuals can be cured of there disgusting sexual habits

We have the "Pink Commandos" roaming the streets and using a bra less woman in a miniskirt as bait kidnapping everyone that "looks at her that way" says the programs director.

It is time we helped bring those sickening breeders to their senses, after all everyone knows that hetero sex leads to child molestation, kiddie porn and abortions. Do you think its just a coincidence that ONLY hetero sex leads to killing infants? I don't think so. All heteros are just baby murders waiting to happen.

It is our Christan duty to beat the Straightness out of these poor demon possessed pieces of human garbage, whoops I mean misguided individuals.

God Is on our side, as you can see from all the Priests we have in our youth prevention program where Priests take children who are at risk or are form hetero households on week long trips to Michel Jacksons home.

What is truly sad is these perverts want to marry, can you believe they want their filthy baby spewing relationships to be legalized? I know I threw up the first time I heard of it too.

God has shown us the way to cure almost all of the perverts...... The rest we can drag behind a truck and then tie to a fence

Are we at a restaurant?

Cause somebody just got served!

[edit on 12/4/04 by FredT]

lmao! thats some nice work, amuk!

We have the "Pink Commandos" roaming the streets and using a bra less woman in a miniskirt as bait kidnapping everyone that "looks at her that way" says the programs director.

You forgot to mention drive by makeovers!

Originally posted by Lecky
Hello Ed...

Not sure if you will care much for what this website has to say since it's not religiously based but, The American Psychological Association stated that scientific evidence does not show that conversion therapy works and that it can do more harm than good.


Also, you fail to mention the many Christian communities that accept homosexuals for who they are and don't go out of their ways to convert them

Not all Christians for that matter, agree with you that homosexuality is wrong...

Hi


Thanks for that link and yes I have read it and knew it would be added to the thread as it SHOULD. The issue with it is there ARE some who have converted, of this there is no doubt. So if some can, does that mean they were not gay in the first place?

Bisexuals - Still have no answer there from anyone...


As for Christian communities, well that is a very vast list. I know of no Christian who says sin is Ok and deny's that it is a sin if the God that they worship said it is. God says that we can be of this world, but he warns of of this exact thing.

Justify sin to be politically correct? Nope....it is still sin and if one does not repent of it than he can not be forgiven of it.

Have your fun everyone, it is fine with me.

I just present to you a quandary, if a 'gay man' finds Christ in his heart and changes and I mean CHANGES. Then that presents a problem to the 'born gay' theory.

As a human being who is sinful, I would love to be raped by the Swedish bikini team, but I CHOOSE to not let that happen (like they would anyway, but it a used to make a point). I CHOOSE not to engage in orgy's and the like because God says that it is immoral. Just as he says of homosexuality. Some try to skirt the question and say the some in Christendom accept gayness as OK, and yet the written word leaves no ambiguity about it.

Of Course people in Rome engaged in it, they did not believe in God.



Still, some gay people has legitimately changed and that throws the "born" theory to the hogwash category to me.