"The LORD is my Shepherd..."

a reply to: BlackManINC

Hello again BlackManNC.

"The Lord is my weapon, and you shall not falter. You make me lay waste to Satans desciples, you lead me in the battle trenches. You restore my ammunition. Your blood covers me as protection on the path to battle. And though I march towards the stronghold under heavy fire through the valley of the shadow of the dead, I will fear no heathen. For the Lord is with me. Your presence and your word they comfort me. You prepare a command center before me, in the presence of devils. While your mercy for me endures, I will show no mercy for Satans desciples unto death. And I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever."

It seems that the task before you is to identify Satan's disciples. If you should battle those undeserving of your enmity,
have you not committed a grievous transgression? Who exactly, are these disciples of Satan?

Who, exactly, is in charge of your inquisition?

a reply to: nenothtu

Hello again Mr. N,

"The only duty I have to humanity is to not leave it any worse at my hand than it was when I found it..."

I simply cannot comprehend a personal philosophy where maintenance of the status quo is an ideal objective.

Furthermore, I just don't perceive you as a nihilistic misanthrope.

You may not have a desire to enrich humanity, but it just might happen anyway.

originally posted by: BlackManINC

Okay can you explain what exactly is the difference between the Muslim God and that of the of the Jihadist beyond just a simple "religious" and "political" statement?

I'm afraid that if you can't tell the difference between religion and politics, I won't be able to help you. The Jihadists, and back in the day the Crusaders, seemed to have the same sort of myopia.

And is this the same God that Christians worship?

That depends entirely on just which sort of "Christians" you are referring to. maybe, maybe not, depending on the variety of "Christian".

Just like Jihadist would like us to believe they worship the same God of the Muslims, so to do the Muslims also claim to worship the same God of Christianity, when their own "holy" books make it very clear to me that they don`t.

1.) Jihadists worship power over others, and call it "allah" to confuse muslims. Jihadists don't want to kill you, they want to RULE you, and if they kill you, there's nothing left to rule. If they kill ENOUGH of you, however, they believe the rest of you will come around to seeing them as the Master Race.

2.) The muslims DO worship they same god as christians - says so right there in their Qur'an. Now whether you want to make the argument that they have stolen your god or not, that's a different matter. You could argue that, but you can't argue that their Qur'an claims it's another god. It doesn't - unless you're willing to give up Adam, Abraham, Noah, Lot, Jesus, etc.

If they really do worship the same God as me, then I shouldn't have to pay a special tax in some of those Islamic run nations for identifying myself as Christian, because it shouldn't matter to them either way.

Worshiping the same god is not the same thing as having the same religion - just ask a Catholic if you're Protestant, or vice-versa if it's the other way 'round. The jizya amounts to the same thing as the zakat taxes muslims pay, and it's for upkeep of the non-muslim poor and to pay for YOUR defense by Muslims if the nation comes under external attack - you see, as a special added bonus, if you qualify to pay the zakat, you can't be drafted to fight in their wars. How 'bout that!

Do you refuse to pay the special christian tax called "alms", too?

Personally, I believe they want us to believe they worship the same God of Christianity because they want to appear as a religion of peace and tolerance when their actions show otherwise.

Whose actions?

Are you STILL failing to make the distinction between jihdists/islamists and muslims?

Or are you talking about those peaceful christian folk who went to war in Iraq 'cause their god told their president to go to war?

Whose actions?

My wife is a muslim, and she hasn't yet beheaded my infidel ass, despite loads of opportunity when I go to sleep. She DID give me a disapproving glare once when I forgot to wipe my feet - they're an unruly bunch, those muslims!

originally posted by: Diderot

Hello again Mr. N,

Greetings and salutations!

"We will never be "the creatures that we should be", because we already ARE the creatures that we should be. If we become something else, we will no longer be human, we will be... something else."

Sorry to disagree, but we are a far cry from what we should be.

"What we should be" by whose measure? Who is determining "what we should be" in your philosophy?

We should be, and can be, an overwhelming force to improve the quality of life on Earth.

Why should we be that? And again "improving the quality of life" by whose standards? I detect that my standards may vary from yours - whose are we to use?

We seem to think that we are superior to all the other life forms of this planet.

We HAVE to be superior if we are to improve the quality of life on Earth, because no other organism has yet accomplished that - I don't even see them trying, really.

We shall rise above the roots of our primitive nature.

Then we humans shall honor our true potential.

My true potential is AT the roots of my primitive nature - overcomplicating the system always leads to a crash, and I believe we may be observing such at this very instant in time. We've risen so far above the roots of our natures now that we have no foundation left to build on here, and Earth is about to reject us as a failed experiment.

You cannot both live in harmony with nature AND control it, bend it to your will... that kinda gigs the harmony part, right there.

If you think you can improve on nature, and thereby improve the quality of life on Earth, then you are going to one day be rudely awakened by a wakeup call from Mother Nature. She'll only put up with so much tinkering with her mechanisms in the name of "improvement". When it's "us against the planet", the planet is gonna win every time - it's bigger, meaner, and cares a lot less about what happens to us in the long haul.

originally posted by: Diderot

Hello again Mr. N,

"The only duty I have to humanity is to not leave it any worse at my hand than it was when I found it..."

I simply cannot comprehend a personal philosophy where maintenance of the status quo is an ideal objective.

Maintaining the status quo is the only way to make it work, if we can't roll it back. The reason for that is that when you take from one and give to another, you have diminished the potential of the party of the first part. You have then left him worse off than he was before. You HAVE to take from one to give to another to affect the status quo, because there is only so much to go around. There is not an unlimited supply of stuff to hand out. nature has had a wondrous way of working out who gets what, and it's worked for several thousand years - until humanity thought it could go nature one better with technology, and stepped in to kick everything off balance.

Until humanity invents a Magic Materializer to magically make material appear (perhaps by taking it from those deadbeats in the 12th dimension - they don't need that stuff, anyhow!), then "redistribution" is not going to work to improve life - it will improve some, and reduce others, which is the same thing that we have going on right now. Either way you distribute it, there's only so much to go around, and we keep adding more mouths into the equation and making them live longer, through the miracle of technology.

Now, in a previous post, you mentioned "improving the quality of life" - and I'm wondering just how you would plan to implement the improvement of MINE - don't you think I can figure out what I want on my own? What I'm really getting at is that what YOU see as "improvement" might not be the same thing as what I see as "improvement".

Furthermore, I just don't perceive you as a nihilistic misanthrope.

Believe it. I absolutely detest humanity. I love people, but have no use for "humanity" at all. It's the most avaricious collection of nothing to ever tread the universe.

You may not have a desire to enrich humanity, but it just might happen anyway.

I have no doubt of that. Humanity, as I said above, is the most avaricious collection of nothing to ever exist, and that very avarice will lead them into "improving" their lot - at the expense of everything and everyone else - until nature pulls the plug on it in disgust and finally starve it out of existence.

nenothtu.

2.) The muslims DO worship they same god as christians - says so right there in their Qur'an. Now whether you want to make the argument that they have stolen your god or not, that's a different matter. You could argue that, but you can't argue that their Qur'an claims it's another god. It doesn't - unless you're willing to give up Adam, Abraham, Noah, Lot, Jesus, etc.

This is not entirely accurate nenothtu.

Under Abraham...there are two sons involved. Ishmael and Isaac. Paul goes to great lengths to explain the difference in Ishmael and the line of Isaac.

That Ishmael is the OLde Testament and is in bondage with her children.. the Bondwoman and her son..Ishmael...given on Mt Sinai. That the Olde Testament is in bondage with her children. Not that we are not to know the Olde Testament but it is in Bondage with her children. Those under Olde Testament Law are in Bondage.

But Issac ..the New Testament is free and the mother of us all. Many preachers and ministers do not teach the fullness of this and what is means. This is why you will often see me state..that I am not an Ishmaelite.

And many of the counterfeits..including counterfeit Christianity attempt to mislead the Believers about this and put them in to Bondage..one way of doing this is "Free Will." Which is works...OLde Testament Bondage.

One needs to be well studied in this pattern and what it means otherwise it is very easy to get believers onto a counterfeit religion and think it is Christianity ..when it is not. Only the appearance of Christian.

Do you refuse to pay the special christian tax called "alms", too?

Christian owe no special tax or alms. That is bondage on the part of many churches. Just like this 10 per cent giving as a tithe. The only instruction of which I know is to give first fruits. Not necessarily money per se..but first fruits.



The church to which I attend has two boxes in the back..one for the church and one for the minister..that is it.
Nothing more needed.


In my mind most Muslims don't want to bother anyone or be bothered. I can find no fault with this as it is how I try to live my life. But I do know of certain things in the religion which are not conducive to this. I can say the same thing for Roman Catholicism...as some of this is still in the religion. It is just a matter of if someone is zealous sufficient to carry it out...and it has been carried out in the RCC.

Somewhere in your posts nenothtu you made a comment about it becoming a political movement verses a religion per se.
I am in agreement with this. So too it became historically with the RCC.



I am also often want to describe much of politics to day as a religion ..a devout and zealous religion. Just not a religion bound by most of what people believe constitutes a religion.

Politics to me has today a very different standard from what most people understand and think. They have been conditioned not to think of politics in this manner. To me public ignorance of many things is become the stock in trade of much of leadership and politicians today. In this manner it is easier for them to default through on an ignorant and uninformed public by putting them on the emotional control strings. Someone is playing them like a fiddle.

I believe verily in the Separation of Church and State..and for good reasons when you become aware historically of the mischief that governments have gotten into when getting into bed with the churches...and vice versa.
They should be separated.

This is not the case in Islam. It is not historically the case with the RCC.

My true potential is AT the roots of my primitive nature - overcomplicating the system always leads to a crash, and I believe we may be observing such at this very instant in time. We've risen so far above the roots of our natures now that we have no foundation left to build on here, and Earth is about to reject us as a failed experiment.

I tend towards agreeing with this statement of yours. Nicely stated.

If you think you can improve on nature, and thereby improve the quality of life on Earth, then you are going to one day be rudely awakened by a wakeup call from Mother Nature. She'll only put up with so much tinkering with her mechanisms in the name of "improvement". When it's "us against the planet", the planet is gonna win every time - it's bigger, meaner, and cares a lot less about what happens to us in the long haul.

Agree again here. Nicely stated once more.


LOL LOL nenothtu!! And the hits keep coming!!

Believe it. I absolutely detest humanity. I love people, but have no use for "humanity" at all. It's the most avaricious collection of nothing to ever tread the universe.

I like and love certain people too. Just not in large groups. NO use for humanity here. Most of the world can just keep going on by. Which is why I prefer the Graveyard shifts...more Indians less chiefs and fewer people around. When they are working..I am at home or taking care of business before they get off work. Less traffic on the graveyard shift too. I hate traffic.
A lot of women have wanted me to take them places..they are all daywalkers. I am not. If they want to do the driving fine...I ll sleep..they can drive. Otherwise I travel at the early hours of the morning before most are awake..not bankers hours. Good grief..most people think everyone works days...and their beliefs and expectations are accordingly ...no thanks.

Nicely done old man..nicely done.

Orangetom

nenothtu,

We each have a moral duty to enrich humanity.

I hate this kind of stuff...attempting to default through without debate..without question..which is also why I am so distrustful of politics today..under any guise. Secular or religious both.

I find that this type of thinking is a formula for "High Maintenance." A forever license to get into and stay in my pocket.

I am not expendable or disposable for the moral duty of Humanity. No interest in such. I dispise such thinking... because I know that in the end it is justification for expendability and disposability of some for others..without questioning it.

It is just more "Feel Good Religion."

And when I detect such thinking in leadership..I sense a con about to happen. That some are expendable and disposable for others and the others will get it without risk and without work. While I must take risk and work for what I have.

Wealth Redistribution is Humanitarian...it is not RISK Redistribution.

While it is indeed a broad statement, as befits advice for those who tread the broad path, Diderot is in no way incorrect in his statement here. The crucifixion, it meanings, mechanisms, and results, have literally NO consequence for entire Legions of those who have walked Earth. None whatsoever. They are what some folks call "Natural Man", and will go on their natural way until they meet their natural end, and that will be the end of that, for them.

There is no need for them to worry over the crucifuxion at all, since it has no bearing on them whatsoever.

I will disagree with you here nenothtu,

Diderot: "The meaning of the crucifixion of Jesus is of little or no consequence to legions of those who have walked this earth.

Orangetom1999: Wow...that is a broad statement. It means a lot to those who are His. This is the difference in your's and mine starting point. The difference in your's and mine beliefs and religion.


While it is indeed a broad statement, as befits advice for those who tread the broad path, Diderot is in no way incorrect in his statement here. The crucifixion, it meanings, mechanisms, and results, have literally NO consequence for entire Legions of those who have walked Earth. None whatsoever. They are what some folks call "Natural Man", and will go on their natural way until they meet their natural end, and that will be the end of that, for them.

There is no need for them to worry over the crucifuxion at all, since it has no bearing on them whatsoever.

I and the Brethren of like mind and soul...believe differently .in that the Crucifixion has great bearing on many things.
For there are people out here ..who are not interested in the broad path...and do not believe in it.

The tendency of Natural Man is to ignore these people as if they do not exist nor are their views and understandings important and we can just default through or by them. And they will conform...will comply.

Just as our current leadership stated..in that they could make people do things which are against their religion.

This is now In the arena of a return back to "Absolute Power" or put another way...."Divine Right of Kings."

For I understood what John McCain was stating about the current President when he stated...you are not a king.

I do not agree with this current trend back to absolute power..or divine right of kings..for it takes individual liberty away from people and makes them conform...like stamped out Xerox copies of the same olde blandness.
I also do not approve because I also know that this current crop of leadership is also..very divisive..not uniting. This is divide and conquer..not uniting a people. For I know that this is not leadership..but ersatz..phony..of the counterfeiter.

I'm in general agreement with you here, although I would have worded some parts of it differently had it been a statement from myself... still, I agree with it in principle. That is precisely the problem I have with many of the so called "free will" doctrines - they imply, and at times outright state, that man must give God a hand if God is to be a god, and do god things, and further state that mere mortals can control God, lead him around by the nose to do their own bidding, and thwart God's plans by just throwing their little spanners into the gears of it, or simply not plugging it in to the "power grid" (i.e. man power beats god power, and they aren't allowing their god any of either one), thereby bringing it to nought.

I am not free will. DO not believe in it. I am what is called "Sovereign Grace." FRee Will is a variation of Paganism..masquerading as Christian. It is a counterfeit ..of the counterfeiter.

Yeah.

That'll be the day.

Of what good is a god that a mere human can control? Just what kind of a god would that be, and who would need one? In other words, why have a god that YOU are more powerful than?

I have the same problem, the same general principle, with the so-called "jihadists" - what good is a god that has to have YOU, a mere mortal, do his killing for him? My God can do his own killing - I don't save God, it works the other way 'round.

Agree here with you. That which you describe here is the essence of Paganism..Attempting a return.
You choose...you decide...you put your monies in the box and buy your way.

It is one of the variations of what some of us call "The Fallen" attempting to make a comeback.

Thanks,
Orangetom

a reply to: nenothtu

Hello again Mr. N,

"If you think you can improve on nature, and thereby improve the quality of life on Earth, then you are going to one day be rudely awakened by a wakeup call from Mother Nature."

I may be a delusional fool that sees the world through, you know...

But consider that unwavering optimism can produce a flood of endorphins

that even a righteous stoner would envy.

I am quite happy being optimistic.

a reply to: nenothtu

Hello again Mr. N,

"Believe it. I absolutely detest humanity. I love people, but have no use for "humanity" at all."

Oh my dear nenothtu, you have left me scratching my head with that line.

Perhaps you have just read Orwell's "1984", or perhaps some fine Nietzsche.

Or maybe you have gazed upon Dali's "The Persistence of Memories".

Anyway, I do not believe that you detest humanity.

I do, however, believe that you love people.

a reply to: Diderot

I do, however, believe that you love people.

While I will not attempt to speak for nenothtu in this ..I will tell you that I definitely do not love most people.

Those I love are a very small group to me...beginning with my elderly parents.



I try to respect most people...but love them I do not and will not.

For love to me is a very precious, rare, valuable, and vulnurable commodity and not easily given or squandered among those I consider unworthy to cherish or even respect it.

In this I am that very misanthrope you describe and I don't mind it one bit. I also don't care who approves or disapproves.

For I am driving this bus and everyone else can get lost or get off this bus...hit the bricks.

Thanks,
Orangetom

a reply to: orangetom1999

Hello again orangetom,

" ..I will tell you that I definitely do not love most people."

It saddens me to hear such a declaration. Perhaps we have a different understanding of love, but I believe that the vast majority of humankind is loving and worthy of respect.

You are overwhelmed by a world of humanity undeserving of your love.

Nothing is as sanctifying and cleansing as love.

But there is so little of it.

originally posted by: Diderot
a reply to: jmdewey60

"What that means is that God will not abandon his sheep, as it continues on in the analogy to describe what He continues to do as the good shepherd."

Dear jm, You point is well taken, but I have a problem with the first line of the psalm. I have no problem with God our Father, or God our Teacher, or God our Inspiration, but God our Shepherd puts us on the level of sheep, with no autonomy, or promise of our rightful domain upon the earth. The excellence of Humanity is no virtue to this God the Shepherd.

Diderot,

God our shepherd means all the things about Him you previously mentioned. Our father, our teacher, our inspiration as you like to call Him. There's nothing wrong being a slave of the one and true God.

On the contrary, rejoice when they call you His sheep!

a reply to: Trapeze

Hello trapeze,

"God our shepherd means all the things about Him you previously mentioned. Our father, our teacher, our inspiration as you like to call Him. There's nothing wrong being a slave of the one and true God.
On the contrary, rejoice when they call you His sheep!"

Slavery in any context is an abomination.

No true God would countenance the chains that bind a believer.

God does not liberate the soul with chains.

originally posted by: Diderot
a reply to: Trapeze

Hello trapeze,

"God our shepherd means all the things about Him you previously mentioned. Our father, our teacher, our inspiration as you like to call Him. There's nothing wrong being a slave of the one and true God.
On the contrary, rejoice when they call you His sheep!"

Slavery in any context is an abomination.

No true God would countenance the chains that bind a believer.

God does not liberate the soul with chains.

Not sure the scripture applies to 2014 unless in understanding of a 'heavy poetic' nature, metaphors and such. Very few people keep sheep to shepherd, and slavery (unless in the sex trade) is not a day to day in your face fact. Its all about interpretation of 1700 year old scripture and if it even vaguely relates to our society. God has no say so in how the liberation of a soul happens; I thought that was up to the individual it created as an expression of itself (why free will is all important).

a reply to: BlackManINC

Do you believe Muslims worship the same God as Christians? This begs the question since I don`t see any Christians deep frying anybody on a stick who refuses to convert.

Seriously?
You answered your own question in your other post, or is the Abrahamic god of Muslims not the Abrahamic god of the Christians?

You make me lay waste to Satans desciples, you lead me in the battle trenches
further you write
While your mercy for me endures, I will show no mercy for Satans desciples unto death.

As to Christians deep frying?...history abounds with atrocities commited by christians...vietnam war, crusades, blah blah blah etcetera

a reply to: nenothtu

Or are you talking about those peaceful christian folk who went to war in Iraq 'cause their god told their president to go to war?

Well said

a reply to: Trapeze

There's nothing wrong being a slave of the one and true God.

Still god gave you free will, if you're a male and left it upto eve to taste of the fruit in Eden, you never can reach your full potential. By not eating of tree of knowledge, mankind would be stuck between animals (or in this case sheep in the theme of the OP) and undiffentiated "soulless" entity. Either way Man is still impure due the the interbreeding with the Nephilm.

You can keep your mysigonist genocidal Yahweh. The god of Islam Christianity amd Judaism is the Deimurge and has no love of humanity. This is why man suffers.
This is why sheep are slaughtered. This is why blood sacrifice is in the Old Testament. And this is why Blood Sacrifice is Obfuscated in the New Testament in the guise of a crusifixion.