Debunking Israel's 11 Main Myths About Gaza, Hamas and War Crimes

a reply to: sosobad

Bottom line is Isreal will respond with military force at rocket fire from Gaza. So why do it? Israel I'm sure is at times shady and heavy handed and unjust but the rocket fire doesn't help that situation. I think peaceful diplomacy would be the only real way to address those issues. And this is war make no mistake both sides will try to gain any advantage using subterfuge, propaganda and any other covert means.

a reply to: Humanity4Ever

Hamas has no say in the existence of Israel & they know it...
It's in fact been left up to the Palestinian people to decide if they accept Israeli existence...
But they don't get much of a say, or any airtime to be more thorough, to say they are in favour of 2 States...
Instead they're bombarded with shells night and day!!!


& leaving it in Palestinian people's hands was Hamas' decision when they felt their own charter was no longer relevant in 2010!!!


Peace Humanity!!!

Another great thread Daas my friend...
Always an enjoyable read!!!


Just be weary of the "If Hamas Didn't" crowd!!!


Peace Daas!!!

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Humanity4Ever

Hamas has no say in the existence of Israel & they know it...
It's in fact been left up to the Palestinian people to decide if they accept Israeli existence...
But they don't get much of a say, or any airtime to be more thorough, to say they are in favour of 2 States...
Instead they're bombarded with shells night and day!!!


& leaving it in Palestinian people's hands was Hamas' decision when they felt their own charter was no longer relevant in 2010!!!


Peace Humanity!!!

I feel for the innocent that want no part of a violent confrontation.

However, it is worth noting that after Hamas violently overtook Fatah following the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza and concession of land in 2005, there were subsequent elections held, and the majority of people in Gaza voted for Hamas despite the potential ramifications.

The Hamas Charter isn't exactly conducive to diplomatic solutions for a two state solution...

Peace

a reply to: JimTSpock

You should reread the OP.

a reply to: Humanity4Ever

To be fair I don't trust the voting system here in the West...
I'll never believe that Hamas won fairly!!!
I think Hamas and Israel do this on purpose for Aid funds!!!

Fatah should be in charge, but then there would be peace across the 2 States...
Some people can't afford such a utopian ideology!!!


Peace again Humanity!!!

originally posted by: Humanity4Ever

originally posted by: daaskapital

originally posted by: bjarneorn
a reply to: daaskapital

This anti-jew propaganda, is more than just a little tiresome ... it's beyond pathetic.

Accept Israel, and live with it ... or leave.

I do accept the existence of Israel.

Now since you're calling the list propaganda, would you care to provide any contrary evidence to those expressed in the article?

It's nice that you accept the existence of Israel, but Hamas doesn't, and never will.

Does Israel accept the right of a Palestinian state to exist? OF COURSE NOT. Yet all we hear is the propaganda about Hamas denies Israel's right to exist!

Not only does Israel say Palestinians have no right to exist they actually MAKE IT HAPPEN. Hamas's words are just words. Israel's words are backed up by one of the most advanced militaries in the world armed with nuclear weapons and 5th generation fighters and bombers and Tomohawk cruise missiles. They oppress a people who's land they stole and then obliterate them every time they launch medieval rockets that rarely kill anyone. It's beyond disgusting.

Hamas is a loathsome group but if you'd been occupied, oppressed, controlled, starved and marginalised for 60 years I think you'd be a little miffed.

originally posted by: Humanity4Ever

originally posted by: daaskapital

originally posted by: bjarneorn
a reply to: daaskapital

This anti-jew propaganda, is more than just a little tiresome ... it's beyond pathetic.

Accept Israel, and live with it ... or leave.

I do accept the existence of Israel.

Now since you're calling the list propaganda, would you care to provide any contrary evidence to those expressed in the article?

It's nice that you accept the existence of Israel, but Hamas doesn't, and never will.

And there lies the truth. The current pro israeli voices use that excuse to continue the current situation.

In Northern Ireland there are splinter IRA groups who to this day believe in a united Ireland and do not accept Northern Ireland being British, exactly the same thinking as Hamas about Israel. In ireland those opinions did not stop a peace process from being brokered since you have accept that there will ALWAYS be some group that totally disagrees. That's called a reality check.

Israel does not want peace because any solution would result in the abandoning of all jewish settlements beyond the 1968 borders. It would have to stop stealing water from the West Bank and it would have to stop stealing gas from the West Bank. The worst of these is those settlements occupied by people whose mindset and hatred is exactly the same as the most extreme palestinians. Israelis would end up fighting themselves in order to enforce the peace process.

a reply to: daaskapital

See, this is exactly what's wrong with members here on ATS. They choose one option, and they stick to it no matter what. They will not even consider for a second that they might be wrong. And then we have you calling someone a hardcore guy, when most of anti-Israel threads are made by you, what a shock, right?

I guess a hundred times told lie becomes the truth.

Just because you have found something you like, does it make it correct? I would like to see some official documents that back up those claims, not just "Israel officials told us this and that...", because I cannot take that seriously without some more evidences. People will believe what they want to believe no matter what. And when you say you are 100% right, then what's the point in going into any discussion with you and people like you, because your opinion cannot be changed?

On a personal note, while reading some of the threads made by you, I really did slightly changed my mind about this conflict. I still do understand why is Israel fighting back, but no way in hell do I approve the things they are doing to unarmed civilians. Those people should be punished.

a reply to: JimTSpock

Trying to blame Israel for very real world-wide problem of Muslim-on-neighbor violence is missing the root cause. The Palestinians and most Muslims have been taught from age zero to hate the Jews because of the lunatic ravings of their "prophet." Their Qur'an is filled with war tactics and how to treat the enemy, which is everyone who doesn't believe in their god. And the vast majority of Muslims believe in Sharia law that enforces these barbaric 8th century laws. Browse thereligionofpeace.com for a few insights into the real source of the problem.

a reply to: championoftruth

Browse thereligionofpeace.com for a few insights into the real source of the problem.

That site is the equivalent of stormfront for anti-Islamic hate speech, you should be ashamed of yourself trying to push hate sites on here.

not sure if anyone posted it in their comments, but it should be clear that:

en.wikipedia.org...

Dahiya doctrine

The Dahiya doctrine is a military strategy put forth by the Israeli general Gadi Eizenkot that pertains to asymmetric warfare in an urban setting, in which the army deliberately targets civilian infrastructure, as a means of inducing suffering for the civilian population, thereby establishing deterrence.[1] The doctrine is named after a southern suburb in Beirut with large apartment buildings which were flattened by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) during the 2006 Lebanon War.[2] Israel has been accused of implementing the strategy during the Gaza War.

ok, let me shorten it a little bit:

army deliberately targets civilian infrastructure, as a means of inducing suffering for the civilian population, thereby establishing deterrence.

I must admit, I have never heard of Dahiya doctrine until today, but it fits everything that is happening to this moment...

edited to add: maybe Dahiya doctrine should have its' own thread...

a reply to: donhuangenaro
Thanks for posting that, never heard of it.

originally posted by: sosobad
a reply to: donhuangenaro
Thanks for posting that, never heard of it.

np

I heard of it today myself

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: daaskapital

originally posted by: sosobad
a reply to: daaskapital

Be prepared to have it ignored daas, I have tried putting it up on a few threads and because they can't debunk it they call it lies.

Cheers for the thread

Thanks mate.

I was (am) kind of expecting to get hammered by some of the hardcore guys, but i trust your statement. The article is 100% truth, and there isn't much some of the propaganda pushing members on here can do about that, haha.

Thanks again!

Is there a reason why you think Al Jazeera will be non biased when it comes to Israel?

or anything for that matter

originally posted by: donhuangenaro
not sure if anyone posted it in their comments, but it should be clear that:

en.wikipedia.org...

Dahiya doctrine

The Dahiya doctrine is a military strategy put forth by the Israeli general Gadi Eizenkot that pertains to asymmetric warfare in an urban setting, in which the army deliberately targets civilian infrastructure, as a means of inducing suffering for the civilian population, thereby establishing deterrence.[1] The doctrine is named after a southern suburb in Beirut with large apartment buildings which were flattened by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) during the 2006 Lebanon War.[2] Israel has been accused of implementing the strategy during the Gaza War.

ok, let me shorten it a little bit:

army deliberately targets civilian infrastructure, as a means of inducing suffering for the civilian population, thereby establishing deterrence.

I must admit, I have never heard of Dahiya doctrine until today, but it fits everything that is happening to this moment...

edited to add: maybe Dahiya doctrine should have its' own thread...

Considering what happened in WW2 where for example the Axis levelled Coventry (UK), the British levelled Dresden and the Americans fairly much destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki, it's kind of hard to see this as something new.

Ignoring the fact that all of Palestine is immorally occupied by Israel and that Israel formed itself unlawfully (via ethnic cleansing) against the will of the Arab Councils, local Palestinians and UN Security Council in 1947/8, here are some other facts...

1. Decades ago the Palestinians formed the PLO, a liberation movement at one time run by Yaser Arafat, a muslim whose wife was Christian. Israel and the US demonized the PLO and painted them as villains. Israel then created Hamas, by arming fundamentalist muslim groups, to kill the PLO, kill Arafat and take their place.

2. Israel knew a moderate unfied government in Palestine is trouble for them. Fighting between Hamas and the PLO allowed Israel to play the blame game and stall for time.

3. Over the years, Hamas becomes a moderate political party. From 2004 onwards, it gains majority support, is elected by local Palestinians and is accepted by all international countries (except the US and Australia) as a righteous political party. When denouncing Hamas, Israelis like to point to its 1988 charter - which it had when it was a Israeli puppet group - which called for the destruction of Israel. Since 2004, Hamas has repeatedly called for a 2 state solution along 1967 borders and has renounced all violence and has accepted Israel's right to exist.

4. Because Hamas makes frickin sense, Israel now has to destroy it. It funds the Army of Islam to destroy and stir up Hamas and launch rockets. None of this stuff works. Israel keeps stealing land.

5. Hamas, which controls Gaza, and the PLO, which controls the West Bank, in 2014 begin to form a UNITY GOVERNMENT. Israel panics, because it knows this will lead to international pressure being put on Israel to negotiate and give up stollen land.

6. In 2014, 2 Palestinian teens are shot by Israeli snipers. Later, 3 Jewish teens are kidnapped, the kidnappings done, reportedly, by the Army of Islam. Israel uses this kidnapping as a pretext to blame Hamas, even though these kidnappings took place on the West Bank (not Gaza, which Hamas runs) and had nothing to do with Hamas.

7. Israel air strikes Hamas buildings and raids the west bank, unlawfully arresting hundreds of Hamas politicians without trial or warrant. It also conducts raids in Gaza, again, unlawfully.

8. Only then, pissed off and with no other recourse, does Gaza start launching rocket attacks. Better to die hoping for change then going through the same crap for another hundred years.

9. Israel loves these rocket attacks. It gives them a pretext to, as their own military wing says, "mow the field"; keep Palestine bombed, broke and destabalized. Israel kills a couple thousand Palestinians, mostly civilians. Right wing nuts continue bitching about Palestinian rockets.

10. While the 2014 bombings go on, Israel steals more land for settlements in the West Bank. It denounces Palestinian rockets, forgetting that the Geneva Convention gives Palestine the legal right to launch rockets against any occupying force.

11. The Western world, wising up to what is happening, begins to deliberate putting sanctions and embargoes on Israel, like they once did to South Africa. South Africa, a brutal apartheid state, was supported to the end by the US and UK, two of the last countries to finally denounce its injustices. Today, the whole world sides against Israel, except the US, Australia and the UK. And of course right wing libertarian nutty types.

12. Morally, all of Palestine should belong to the Palestinians. Hamas, the PLO and Fatah, however, have conceded to the UN Res 1967 borders. The UN itself orders Israel to go back to these borders. The Israelis have made it clear that they will never do this. The Palestine/Israel conflict is thus unresolveable precisely because Israel refuses to make concessions and obey international law. Indeed, they want even more land. Every few years Israel holds negotiations (Camp David etc) and pretends to "generously give land", but their offerings are all based on lies and designed to further "balkanize" Palestine.

a reply to: daaskapital

I do beleive that the gaza strip was lost durning a incursion by the arabs. If you can't win the battles don't start them.

originally posted by: bjarneorn
a reply to: daaskapital

This anti-jew propaganda, is more than just a little tiresome ... it's beyond pathetic.

Accept Israel, and live with it ... or leave.

And that help your point how?!?
Seriously??

originally posted by: guitarplayer
a reply to: daaskapital

I do beleive that the gaza strip was lost durning a incursion by the arabs. If you can't win the battles don't start them.

Says who? That is a military annexation. If that were the case the Germans Italians and many others are living on forfeited land.