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NASA Confirms New EM Thruster Violates Laws Of Conservation

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posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 11:10 AM
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originally posted by: KrzYma
a reply to: Rob48


Neither of them is doing any work or expending any energy, because there is no acceleration


exactly, a push or a pull is acceleration, therefore work and not force.
result ...not cause !
force is, taking a closed system for this, an unequal distribution of electric and/or magnetic momenta in the system


a reply to: Harte

push the brick wall little harder till you overcome the "bounding energy" holding the brick wall together, and there is acceleration.


No, a force is a push. Whether or not that results in an acceleration depends on other factors.

I'm pushing down on my chair with a force of 750 newtons, but the chair isn't moving.




posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 11:59 AM
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originally posted by: Mary Rose

originally posted by: Nochzwei
. . . but any way I eventually listened to the full interview. randy goes all over the place and couldnt answer the ques about what the first product will be in the market, although he does say that these units or products will be in the market in 16 to 18 weeks.


Why are you suspicious or offended or whatever it is you are, by that?

Isn't that proprietary information when on an interview with Sterling Allan designed to inform the public, not stockholders or investors or whatever?

In other words, is it really any of our business?


originally posted by: Nochzwei
. . . he also says that some professors have replicated their process.

Are you suggesting he's not telling the truth?


originally posted by: Nochzwei
. . . he says that the light they produce cannot be split into a spectrum.

And exactly what do you have to say to that?
Short answer instead of trolling.I am kind of skeptical until I see the launching of their products



posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 12:30 PM
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a reply to: Nochzwei

Is that fair on a forum where we're supposed to be discussing science and technology?

I mean, what's the point of skepticism per se that is totally dependent upon successfully bringing something to market?

Don't you know there are all kinds of pressures involved in new innovations like this?

Including death to inventors, in the worst case scenario?



posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 12:36 PM
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a reply to: Mary Rose

Skeptics don't disregard data because it doesn't fit preconceived ideas, they evaluate the data on its own merits.

It doesn't matter though. The purpose of posting BLP's progress is to provide some measure of hope in an otherwise hopeless void of state created economic destruction.

If I were the skeptics, I would be much more concerned about my potential future living standards should BLP's device fail to make it to market.

They better pray BLP makes this thing fly, or we are all going to be living like the Somalis soon enough.



posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 12:43 PM
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originally posted by: AnarchoCapitalist
They better pray BLP makes this thing fly, or we are all going to be living like the Somalis soon enough.


I think people turn a deaf ear to that because they're not sure whether or not it's actually true or just a scare tactic.

And there are so many things wrong with the world it seems overwhelming and people just throw up their hands and let someone else worry about it.



posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 12:43 PM
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originally posted by: Rob48

originally posted by: KrzYma
a reply to: Rob48


Neither of them is doing any work or expending any energy, because there is no acceleration


exactly, a push or a pull is acceleration, therefore work and not force.
result ...not cause !
force is, taking a closed system for this, an unequal distribution of electric and/or magnetic momenta in the system


a reply to: Harte

push the brick wall little harder till you overcome the "bounding energy" holding the brick wall together, and there is acceleration.


No, a force is a push. Whether or not that results in an acceleration depends on other factors.

I'm pushing down on my chair with a force of 750 newtons, but the chair isn't moving.


yes, you are pushing your chair down and your chair pushes back up.
But this is not force, it's the action of force on mass.
The force pulling you down is gravity and not push on the chair. Push is not a force.
Chairs structural integrity is what holds you back, it repels your acceleration.

In this configuration, first the gravity force is acting on you accelerating you down.
As reaction to your push on the chair, it repels with equal force holding you in place.
But place a car with 20000 newtons on that chair and its structural integrity collapses so the car will accelerate till it will be stopped by something else.

An push... is the manifestation of force but not the force itself which is gravity in this case
edit on 5-8-2014 by KrzYma because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 01:03 PM
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originally posted by: KrzYma
The force pulling you down is gravity and not push on the chair. Push is not a force.
Chairs structural integrity is what holds you back, it repels your acceleration.

What acceleration? If I am sitting on a chair, motionless, there is no acceleration.

When I first sit on the chair, there is a momentary acceleration as I compress the molecules in the chair ever so slightly. You seem to be suggesting that once that acceleration is over, the force from the chair should cease. Clearly, it doesn't.


But place a car with 20000 newtons on that chair and its structural integrity collapses so the car will accelerate till it will be stopped by something else.


That is because there is a limit to the force that the chair can provide. It can happily provide a 750 N upward force. It cannot provide a 20000 N upward force.

None of which alters the fact that when I am sitting on a chair I am applying a force to it.

No NET force means no acceleration. No NET force does not mean NO FORCE.

edit on 5-8-2014 by Rob48 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 01:23 PM
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originally posted by: KrzYma

originally posted by: Rob48


originally posted by: KrzYma

a reply to: Rob48




Neither of them is doing any work or expending any energy, because there is no acceleration





exactly, a push or a pull is acceleration, therefore work and not force.

result ...not cause !

force is, taking a closed system for this, an unequal distribution of electric and/or magnetic momenta in the system





a reply to: Harte



push the brick wall little harder till you overcome the "bounding energy" holding the brick wall together, and there is acceleration.




No, a force is a push. Whether or not that results in an acceleration depends on other factors.



I'm pushing down on my chair with a force of 750 newtons, but the chair isn't moving.




yes, you are pushing your chair down and your chair pushes back up.

But this is not force, it's the action of force on mass.

The force pulling you down is gravity and not push on the chair. Push is not a force.

Chairs structural integrity is what holds you back, it repels your acceleration.

Evidence that you are jerking chains here. You admit that gravity is a force, not an acceleration.

So if gravity is a force, where is the acceleration in the above example?

BTW, the poster stated that a force is a push OR a pull.


originally posted by: KrzYma

In this configuration, first the gravity force is acting on you accelerating you down.

As reaction to your push on the chair, it repels with equal force holding you in place.

But place a car with 20000 newtons on that chair and its structural integrity collapses so the car will accelerate till it will be stopped by something else.

Improper use of defined terms lends no credence to anything.
If there is no change in velocity, then there is no acceleration, since that's the definition of acceleration.

Force is related to acceleration: F=ma. Force is not acceleration.

Harte



posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 01:27 PM
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originally posted by: [post=18242774]Mary Rose



Don't you know there are all kinds of pressures involved in new innovations like this?

Including death to inventors, in the worst case scenario?

I know that like the back of my hand.



posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 01:29 PM
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originally posted by: Harte

Force is related to acceleration: F=ma. Force is not acceleration.

Harte


But zero acceleration does not, of course, mean zero force. I can push against the wall with a force of, say, 100 newtons, and the wall won't accelerate, because the foundations of the wall can push back with a force of 100 newtons for a NET force of zero. If I got a bulldozer and pushed against the wall with a force of 100000 newtons, the wall will accelerate, because the maximum force the foundations can apply is less than 100000 newtons, therefore the NET force will no longer be zero.

(I'm sure you know this, but some might not appreciate the difference.)
edit on 5-8-2014 by Rob48 because: clarification



posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 02:07 PM
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a reply to: Rob48



When I first sit on the chair, there is a momentary acceleration as I compress the molecules in the chair ever so slightly. You seem to be suggesting that once that acceleration is over, the force from the chair should cease. Clearly, it doesn't.


that's why I said acceleration is work
www.abovetopsecret.com...

question is what is Force ?
it is not the push or pull, those are reactions to force.

take a ball of 1kg its force is 9.81 N here on Earth but 274 N on the Sun
If you leave it alone, it will accelerate
What force is acting it? Gravitational force.
Force of push or pull ? NO!
it needs to interact with something to make this push or pull happening.
Gravity is the force


to your chair, the force is not ceasing, gravity pulls you down all the time, the chair "reverses" its direction.
When you stand up it does not fly up, it just releases its structural stress at most.
It has no own source of force to cause pushing or pulling which are just the result of force but definitely not forces them self.



posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 02:17 PM
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a reply to: KrzYma

No, a force is a push or a pull. End of story. Whether that force results in an acceleration depends on the other forces acting on the object.

The force of gravity PULLS me downwards. The reaction force of the chair PUSHES me upwards.

Push = pull. Result = zero net force, and thus zero acceleration.

This is very basic physics.

I don't like quoting from Wikipedia, but even the [url=http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force]Simple English Wikpedia concurs:

In physics, force is a push or a pull that changes or tends to change the state of rest or uniform motion of an object or changes the direction or shape of an object.


A push is a FORCE, not an acceleration.
edit on 5-8-2014 by Rob48 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 03:17 PM
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originally posted by: Rob48

originally posted by: Harte

Force is related to acceleration: F=ma. Force is not acceleration.

Harte


But zero acceleration does not, of course, mean zero force. I can push against the wall with a force of, say, 100 newtons, and the wall won't accelerate, because the foundations of the wall can push back with a force of 100 newtons for a NET force of zero. If I got a bulldozer and pushed against the wall with a force of 100000 newtons, the wall will accelerate, because the maximum force the foundations can apply is less than 100000 newtons, therefore the NET force will no longer be zero.

(I'm sure you know this, but some might not appreciate the difference.)

Yes, I gave the same example (without numbers) in an earlier post.

Harte



posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 04:25 PM
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originally posted by: Rob48

No, a force is a push or a pull. End of story. Whether that force results in an acceleration depends on the other forces acting on the object.

The force of gravity PULLS me downwards. The reaction force of the chair PUSHES me upwards.

Push = pull. Result = zero net force, and thus zero acceleration.

This is very basic physics.


A push is a FORCE, not an acceleration.


I think an example of another force will help here


this is the magnetic force.
this toy works as fallows.
the gravity is accelerating those masses ( magnets) down
the magnetic repulsive force repels ( is acting = pushing )

pushing or pulling is the result of force, period!

Another force in addition to gravity and magnetism is the electric force, another depolarized field like the magnetic force. Gravity however seems to work as monopole field attracting only.

Somebody here I think Mary Rose said ( if not I'm sorry ) that nobody actually knows how those forces work.
We know how those forces act, what they do, pushing or pulling for example, reactions to those forces.

reactions like acceleration, even if those accelerations cancel each other, it does not mean they vanish.
Those forces always accelerate the bodies. It is doing work on them all the time.
An push action covert into heat which is nothing more than motion, getting greater with time because the acceleration is permanent.

I think I need to add, before somebody asks,
of course someone need a lot of a force like gravity to reach hight temperatures and those motion converts into radiation loosing energy... and so on..
edit on 5-8-2014 by KrzYma because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-8-2014 by KrzYma because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-8-2014 by KrzYma because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 04:36 PM
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a reply to: KrzYma

No, still wrong.

A push isn't the "result of a force", it IS A force.

And a force does not have to accelerate something.

You seem to be suggesting that a magnet stuck to a fridge or a book resting on a table is constantly expending energy, which is being converted into heat?

That is simply fundamentally wrong.

A magnet on a fridge is not expending any energy and it's not doing any work. The same goes for a book resting on a table.
edit on 5-8-2014 by Rob48 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 04:41 PM
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en.wikipedia.org...


In physics, a force is any influence which tends to change the motion of an object.[1] In other words, a force can cause an object with mass to change its velocity (which includes to begin moving from a state of rest), i.e., to accelerate. Force can also be described by intuitive concepts such as a push or a pull. A force has both magnitude and direction, making it a vector quantity. It is measured in the SI unit of newtons and represented by the symbol F.




ntuitive means having the ability to understand or know something without any direct evidence or reasoning process.



posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 04:49 PM
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originally posted by: Rob48
a reply to: KrzYma

No, still wrong.

A push isn't the "result of a force", it IS A force.

And a force does not have to accelerate something.

You seem to be suggesting that a magnet stuck to a fridge or a book resting on a table is constantly expending energy, which is being converted into heat?

That is simply fundamentally wrong.

A magnet on a fridge is not expending any energy and it's not doing any work. The same goes for a book resting on a table.


this is the MS explanation how the Sun works dude, gravity is creating enough heat inside the Sun to produce fission.



posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 05:35 PM
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fusion.

fission is the result of the electroweak decay process of unstable heavy nuclei.



posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 05:40 PM
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originally posted by: stormbringer1701
fusion.

fission is the result of the electroweak decay process of unstable heavy nuclei.


you right, sorry... fusion is what I've meant
thanks !



posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 05:51 PM
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a reply to: KrzYma

That's a somewhat backward explanation. Gravity compresses the material enough that it can undergo fusion, and then the fusion itself produces the heat.

When a star forms you get some degree of heating as the matter contracts under gravity, but what keeps the heat going is fusion.




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