A Call To America and the Rest of The world: Remove the Blinders From Your Eyes....Benjamen Netanya

a reply to: paxnatus

Hi OP! I think you are quite brave to support Israeli actions. I myself must condemn both parties (Israeli Gov't and the HAMAS).

Put up or shut up. I had to laugh when I read this, as it reminded of me of Bill O' Reilly. Anyways here's your FACTS.

The purpose of my reply here is to get your opinion/rebuttle of a well-sourced and highly detailed article.

www.thenation.com...

Here's the first one for those who don't want to click the link.

"1) Israel is exercising its right to self-defense.

As the occupying power of the Gaza Strip, and the Palestinian Territories more broadly, Israel has an obligation and a duty to protect the civilians under its occupation. It governs by military and law enforcement authority to maintain order, protect itself and protect the civilian population under its occupation. It cannot simultaneously occupy the territory, thus usurping the self-governing powers that would otherwise belong to Palestinians, and declare war upon them. These contradictory policies (occupying a land and then declaring war on it) make the Palestinian population doubly vulnerable.

The precarious and unstable conditions in the Gaza Strip from which Palestinians suffer are Israel’s responsibility. Israel argues that it can invoke the right to self-defense under international law as defined in Article 51 of the UN Charter. The International Court of Justice, however, rejected this faulty legal interpretation in its 2004 Advisory Opinion. The ICJ explained that an armed attack that would trigger Article 51 must be attributable to a sovereign state, but the armed attacks by Palestinians emerge from within Israel’s jurisdictional control. Israel does have the right to defend itself against rocket attacks, but it must do so in accordance with occupation law and not other laws of war. Occupation law ensures greater protection for the civilian population. The other laws of war balance military advantage and civilian suffering. The statement that “no country would tolerate rocket fire from a neighboring country” is therefore both a diversion and baseless.

Israel denies Palestinians the right to govern and protect themselves, while simultaneously invoking the right to self-defense. This is a conundrum and a violation of international law, one that Israel deliberately created to evade accountability."

originally posted by: Bearack
I honestly find it amusing how so many point their finger at Israel for doing what they do and I do understand the angst of women and children being drawn into such a bloody conflict. However, I find it appalling that so many forget the strife these people (Israelis - or Jews to be more accurate) have gone throw through their damn existence.

From the Siege of Jerusalem where Emperor Titus sacked the city and slaughter over a million Jews to the first persecution of Jews in Europe by Emperor Henry II who kicked anyone who prayed to the Tora from German lands to the Creation of the state of Israel on May 14th, 1948 to which it was a mere 1 day after they were attacked by nearly every Arab nation in the region. Even they (Arab nations) told "Palestinians" to evacuate the area as they were going to soak the sands with blood of the Jews.

Israel even at one time had open borders with the Palestinian people. It offered them in to unite but it was the continued suicide bombers at schools, cafes and shopping center that started a long bloody history between the two cultures.

This situation is a lose, lose for the Israelis government in this situation. Hamas continues to put innocence in harms way to create a no win situation for Israel as it continues to launch missiles in that nation. Not respecting any cease fire and then blaming Israel for for them launching more missiles.

For most people in this region, there is only one solution for Israel and that is the utter destruction of the state and it's Jews and unfortunately, many on this forum would agree with as the only solution while you all turn a blind eye to what ISIS is doing, what Syria has done, What Sudan does regularly, Somalia, Egypt or Hell, North Korea for that matter. You bitch about the human rights of the Palestinians but could care less of the slaughter of innocence of thousands of people annually in that nation alone.

Thanks for the faux history lesson. How many Israelis saw the inside of a prison camp?

originally posted by: ProfessorChaos

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: ProfessorChaos
Excellent, and brave thread!

My hat's off to the OP for putting herself out there for Israel when it seems everyone is against them.

We constantly hear about how Israel bombed a school, or killed a civilian, but what we don't hear is how Israel warns of the impending attack so that non-combatants may leave the area.

Hamas is storing the very rockets that are used to attack Israel (thus making them the targets) in places that civilians congregate. How are they not culpable in this? Those civilians remain in the areas that are going to be bombed, even keeping their children there. How are they not responsible for doing so while knowing what is coming?

These are PR ploys used to a masterful degree to vilify Israel, and which are embraced and put forward by the mainstream media.

Who broke the ceasefire agreement by conducting a suicide bombing, and abducting an IDF soldier within 90 minutes of the agreement? Here's a hint: It wasn't Israel.

It amazes me how many people seem to think that Israel should just sit back and allow the constant rocket attacks, and not strike back. Where is the logic in that? Where is the denial of ignorance in that?

No other country would put up with the relentless aggression that Israel has, and Israel, in my opinion, has exhibited an amazing amount of restraint in this situation.

This situation is a puppet show of a huge magnitude, and those that are saying the things the OP mentioned are dancing right along with the puppet master.

So just so I understand you right...

You're saying the 1400 dead including children deserved what they got?

I must have read you wrong because if not you would be a ruthless psychopath that could justify the murder off masses with.... wait for it..... SELF DEFENCE!!!

I'm saying that common sense would dictate that when an entity openly designates an area as a bombing target, maybe you should get yourself, and your children out of the area.

Hamas is just as culpable for the deaths of children as Israel is, by continuing their attacks on Israel. What I said made perfect sense if you're able to look at it without allowing your vision to be clouded by sensationalist headlines.

Sensationalist headlines???!!!!!

1400 DEAD!!!! civilians and you put it down as sensationalist headlines???

And your "common sense" is essentially bowing to terrorism.
There were numerous warnings before 9/11 was carried out. I guess the 3500 office staff and passengers had it coming since they boarded the plane and went to work. Israel did stay true to that I admit since non of them were in the building or on the planes, they were miles away laughing.

Got to be crazy if you stand behind Hamas and think they are good people.They are as dangerous as Japan and Hitler and the Nazis became in WW2.Iran is the same way and so is Hezbollah.
They also are as dangerous as Stalin and Mao Zedong.Good grief people wake the heck up.

a reply to: paxnatus

Against all evidences I find your comments an insult to my intelligence.

News can be fabricated but a constant state of terror from Israel goes against all laws and human rights.

I have nothing against Israel but I find Benjamin Netanyahu a threat to Israel's culture and peace. Israeli deserve better.

Having friends from Israel and Palestine allows me seeing the atrocious violations taking place as we breath.

Many dictators did less and triggered disgraceful events in human history.

Hamas is powered by hate but Netanyahu is trying making them respond to genocidal tactics. Although under the command of dangerous minds, the current Palestinian government is just trying saving as many people possible.

a reply to: Expat888

So you worked in Gaza clinics and saw injured people? If you work in an Israeli clinic you'll see injured people as well, so you no doubt agree that Hamas are also murderous lunatics. All respect to you for doing what I assume is high level humanitarian work, but it proves nothing. Yes, in a conflict people are injured, it's true.

Gaza and Hamas are not innocent in this. Israel is defending itself and going on the offense as well. If you are insisting that Israel is engaging in wanton slaughter of nothing but innocents......you are being dishonest.

In a war people get killed.

The Israelis shouldn't be in the homeland of Palestinians. They've been warned to leave

a reply to: ProfessorChaos

Thank you for your kind words....glad to see there is one more voice of reason here on ATS. Things are in such a sad state everywhere....I know this not from the media or the net but it is evident on this forum...So much division so many perpetuating hatred and violence against Israel.

As you have already pointed out, there is no other country in history, that has warned its opposition of incoming bombs!! Israel drops flyers, sends text messages, and even goes door to door warning people to please leave the area!!

Does HAMAS do this? No they don't! Does anyone in the PA do this? No they don't! Yet it is Israel that is demonized!
It is Netanyahu whom is deemed pure evil!! Forget that HAMAS has repeatedly broken a ceasefire NOT Israel! What is wrong with the mind set of people whom call wrong right and right wrong! It truly disgusts me!

Perhaps if Obama had half the Cajones that Netanyahu has America would not be going down in flames!!

a reply to: MALBOSIA

Do tell how I exaggerated history in any fashion?

And please, give me honest assessment if the Israelis were to lay their weapons down today, what would happen to them? Do you feel the Arabs will embrace them? Or do you think the Arabs would be justified in slaughter every last one?

originally posted by: Expat888
Well mr. yahoo the blinders are off here.. your a genocidal psychopath running a country butchering innocent human beings and lying to justify mass murder..

No offense to the op but nothing justifies the violations of human rights and mass murder israel commits.

The 'blinders' are off eh ?

Sure doesn't sound like it.

Genocide of who ?

The current inhabitants of 'Palenstine' are those desecendents of the last empire of the region the Ottoman Empire.

Before that it was every empire that came before them.

That is mostly made up of arab, and muslim.

Last time I checked there was no shortage of those.

The partitioning of the Ottoman Empire (30 October 1918 – 1 November 1922) was a political event that occurred after World War I. The huge conglomeration of territories and peoples that formerly comprised the Ottoman Empire was divided into several new states.

The Balfour Declaration encouraged the international Zionist movement to push for a Jewish homeland in the Palestine region, which was the site of the ancient Kingdom of Israel and at the time had a significant Jewish minority population in a region that was mainly Muslim. The Tsarist regime had also had wartime agreements with the Triple Entente on the partitioning of the Ottoman Empire but after the Russian Revolutions, Russia did not participate in the actual partitioning.

en.wikipedia.org...

The United Monarchy is the name given to the Israelite[1] kingdom of Israel and Judah,[2][3][4] during the reigns of Saul, David and Solomon, known primarily from the Hebrew Bible. This is traditionally dated between 1020 and 930 BCE. On the succession of Solomon's son, Rehoboam, in c. 930 BCE the biblical account reports that the country split into two kingdoms; the Kingdom of Israel (including the cities of Shechem and Samaria) in the north and the Kingdom of Judah (containing Jerusalem) in the south.

en.wikipedia.org...

Them evil Israeli's have 'no' right to that land ! ! !

True or false?

Dual Citizenship
According to Israeli law, a person who runs for the Knesset (the Israeli parliament) cannot hold dual citizenship. Netanyahu claims that in 1982 he gave up his U.S. citizenship, yet he is unwilling to grant the press access to his file located in the U.S. Embassy in Tel-Aviv—the file which holds information regarding his citizenship. Interestingly, the status of his files in the U.S. has not changed, so according to U.S. law Netanyahu remains a U.S. citizen.

Netanyahu—the person who in 1982 left his job as a furniture salesman to be a policy adviser at the Israeli embassy in Washington, DC, and within 14 years became prime minister—is still in many ways a conundrum. By contrast, his political objectives are becoming clearer.

www.wrmea.org... n-netanyahu-.html

www.globalresearch.ca...

originally posted by: neo96

originally posted by: Expat888
Well mr. yahoo the blinders are off here.. your a genocidal psychopath running a country butchering innocent human beings and lying to justify mass murder..

No offense to the op but nothing justifies the violations of human rights and mass murder israel commits.

The 'blinders' are off eh ?

Sure doesn't sound like it.

Genocide of who ?

The current inhabitants of 'Palenstine' are those desecendents of the last empire of the region the Ottoman Empire.

Before that it was every empire that came before them.

That is mostly made up of arab, and muslim.

Last time I checked there was no shortage of those.

The partitioning of the Ottoman Empire (30 October 1918 – 1 November 1922) was a political event that occurred after World War I. The huge conglomeration of territories and peoples that formerly comprised the Ottoman Empire was divided into several new states.

The Balfour Declaration encouraged the international Zionist movement to push for a Jewish homeland in the Palestine region, which was the site of the ancient Kingdom of Israel and at the time had a significant Jewish minority population in a region that was mainly Muslim. The Tsarist regime had also had wartime agreements with the Triple Entente on the partitioning of the Ottoman Empire but after the Russian Revolutions, Russia did not participate in the actual partitioning.

en.wikipedia.org...

The United Monarchy is the name given to the Israelite[1] kingdom of Israel and Judah,[2][3][4] during the reigns of Saul, David and Solomon, known primarily from the Hebrew Bible. This is traditionally dated between 1020 and 930 BCE. On the succession of Solomon's son, Rehoboam, in c. 930 BCE the biblical account reports that the country split into two kingdoms; the Kingdom of Israel (including the cities of Shechem and Samaria) in the north and the Kingdom of Judah (containing Jerusalem) in the south.

en.wikipedia.org...

Them evil Israeli's have 'no' right to that land ! ! !

no the Israelis don't have the right to steal Palestine from the Palestinians just like they can't have Alsace and Loraine of France just because they belonged to Germany in the past.
You can not have any thing that belongs to somebody else.

a reply to: adnanmuf

Even bother reading what was linked ?

Because it sure doesn't sound like it.

Oh forgive me about the Israelites kingdom three thousand years ago. What this has to do with current Jews who are from Magog the khazar with a added touch of the Magi and Spanish Moore

Since my father told me I am a decendent of Sweden king who lived 3000 years ago. Then I should get the kingdom of Sweden from their current king. You believe my father don't you?

I myself am 100% pro Israel. Yes both sides of the situation have killed but guess what people, that's what war is about. It's not like our goose stepping, liberal , commy president's version. In war people die good and bad, innocent and guilty.
Also all sides have been switching land holdings since way back in the Bible. This WILL NOT end until it's supposed too. So yeah, instead of bashing either side constantly lets pull together and wish for Peace that won't come and who knows maybe they'll take a break for a few I would say years but I'll be safe and say days. As for Netanyahu in my opinion he has a very valid point.

Thats not war that is a new low. To attack disarmed pocket of land.now nobody will be able to enjoy their lives or vacation anymore. It's permanent damage to human Psyche

When the Israelites shelled a beach with children playing in it, and one young lad said he watched 3 of his friends die.. It's hard to describe to you how I felt about that as a human being. Enraged, injustice, sadness, guilt (because no one is doing anything)

Killing people in gaza is like shooting fish in a bucket. The residents cannot leave and so must risk their lives living in a warzone with no choice in the matter.

So # Israel.
How would they feel if we bombed their country to # and then invited them for peace talks that basically just consist of them giving us what we want.

Rant over.

Then they call unfair

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
I hate this whole damn conflict. Neither side are good guys. They are both bad guys and if you side with either side over the other, you are buying into some sort of propaganda.

Correct but many of us feel i believe that we are sick to death of children and innocents being slaughtered and feel we may sway public opinion so heavily by openly commenting against the atrocities that it might cease.