Israeli airstrikes within an hour, completely leveled.

So who had less than two hours in the How-Long-Will-This-Ceasefire-Last pool?

Went longer than I thought it would.

a reply to: Flatcoat

All those dead civilians had nothing to do with launching rockets

Then why are they allowing them to hide their rockets among them?

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: Flatcoat

All those dead civilians had nothing to do with launching rockets

Then why are they allowing them to hide their rockets among them?

Why do we allow nuclear missile silos among us?

a reply to: ~Lucidity


Last I checked they don't store nuclear missiles in my living room.

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: Flatcoat

All those dead civilians had nothing to do with launching rockets

Then why are they allowing them to hide their rockets among them?

What makes you think they have any say in the matter?

I do believe Israel have pushed the button that will see them driven into the sea.

a reply to: thesaneone
Close enough for Israel though, I'd bet.

originally posted by: Flatcoat

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: Flatcoat

All those dead civilians had nothing to do with launching rockets

Then why are they allowing them to hide their rockets among them?

What makes you think they have any say in the matter?

Do you really believe that?

originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: Flatcoat

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: Flatcoat

All those dead civilians had nothing to do with launching rockets

Then why are they allowing them to hide their rockets among them?

What makes you think they have any say in the matter?

Do you really believe that?

Sorry, you've lost me there. Are you saying that every single Palestinian is responsible for Hamas hiding rockets? Is this another demented justification for wholesale slaughter? If not, please try to clarify just a little bit more.

a reply to: Flatcoat

Unless they step up to Hamas then yes they are part of the problem.

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: Flatcoat

Unless they step up to Hamas then yes they are part of the problem.

Fine, then that would make you responsible for every civilian the U.S.gov has murdered in Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen and Pakistan. Is that how it works?

a reply to: Flatcoat

If it helps you sleep at night then sure.

a reply to: Flatcoat

I found your post amusing, not death. Shall we continue our discussion?

How do we eliminate Hamas without killing civilians? I'd really like to find a solution.

originally posted by: charles1952
a reply to: Flatcoat

I found your post amusing, not death. Shall we continue our discussion?

How do we eliminate Hamas without killing civilians? I'd really like to find a solution.

Considering that nearly 90% of those killed so far are civilians we can safely say that any way but the current way would be better. Shelling whole neighbourhoods is just breeding more hate and probably making more terrorists.

originally posted by: charles1952
a reply to: Flatcoat

I found your post amusing, not death. Shall we continue our discussion?

How do we eliminate Hamas without killing civilians? I'd really like to find a solution.

To that I don't have an answer, but Israel has one of the most advanced militarys in the world, and possibly the most feared intelligence service as well. With that in mind, this level of "collateral damage" is totally unacceptable. It almost appears intentional.

a reply to: charles1952
I guess pretty much the same way you stop any terrorism. With law enforcement and, also, you start listening to their grievances, stop killing their people, and forcing invasions of all types on them, particularly those that are counter to their culture or are for monetary gain.

a reply to: ~Lucidity

Dear ~Lucidity,

It's a pleasure to engage in a conversation that looks like it may go somewhere.

I guess pretty much the same way you stop any terrorism. With law enforcement and, also, you start listening to their grievances, stop killing their people, and forcing invasions of all types on them, particularly those that are counter to their culture or are for monetary gain.

We might be able to build on that. Law enforcement in Gaza is controlled by Hamas, so Israel would have to replace Gaza's police force.

"Listening to their grievances?" That's a good idea. First, can we agree that any idea coming from Hamas can be ignored? Let's find out what the people want. News reports are coming in suggesting that what the Palestinian people want is the elimination of Hamas. Israel is shooting at people who are attacking them, Hamas is shooting at Palestinians who don't appear sufficiently loyal.

Actually though, with a little tweaking, I think you're idea does have the beginnings of a peaceful solution. Let's say that the people have a way to confidentially identify the terrorists. Then Israel investigates and detains them all. Israel patrols through Gaza for a while, stopping violent attacks, then when everything has settled down they leave.

Israel's parting message is "You can everything you need to rebuild your community. We're leaving (again). If your government, or anyone in significant authority, launches anything resembling another attack, or begins building tunnels into our country, we will hurt you very badly. Be careful of who you listen to and who you choose as leaders. For you, it might be a life and death decision. Oh, by the way, if some other group comes into your country and starts launching attacks on their own, you'd better tell us about it, or we'll assume you want them to attack us."

Are we getting closer to something?
----------------------------------------------------------
I thought for a moment that "anything would be better" was a contender, so I envisioned one. Israel marches in, fires and destroys until opposition ceases, Then searches every building in one end of the Strip. While they're doing that they send everybody (men, women, babies, everybody) to the other end of the Strip. Israel allows them back in, one at time, after they've undergone interrogation, fingerprinting, photographs, records checks, and anything else Israel wants.

Then when one end of the Strip is emptied, and the bad guys dealt with in some way, the IDF moves into the newly vacated end of the strip, searching every inch and not allowing anyone into that end until it's been fine-toothed combed.

Persuade Hamas and the world to accept that, and I suspect Israel would agree fairly quickly.

With respect,
Charles1952

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: charles1952
a reply to: Flatcoat

I found your post amusing, not death. Shall we continue our discussion?

How do we eliminate Hamas without killing civilians? I'd really like to find a solution.

Considering that nearly 90% of those killed so far are civilians we can safely say that any way but the current way would be better. Shelling whole neighbourhoods is just breeding more hate and probably making more terrorists.

ANY way is not A way......

Mind answering the question?

EDIT TO ADD:

Charles1952 hit the nail right on the head right there in the post above me. Read that over three times, let it soak in a bit.

originally posted by: Flatcoat

originally posted by: charles1952
a reply to: Flatcoat

I found your post amusing, not death. Shall we continue our discussion?

How do we eliminate Hamas without killing civilians? I'd really like to find a solution.

To that I don't have an answer, but Israel has one of the most advanced militarys in the world, and possibly the most feared intelligence service as well. With that in mind, this level of "collateral damage" is totally unacceptable. It almost appears intentional.

Well you are proposing that Israel stop going about the situation the way that they are. You have no solution as to how they should go about this situation but yet their solution is wrong.....lol

Israel doing nothing is NOT a solution.

You have no argument.


-Alien

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: charles1952
I guess pretty much the same way you stop any terrorism. With law enforcement and, also, you start listening to their grievances, stop killing their people, and forcing invasions of all types on them, particularly those that are counter to their culture or are for monetary gain.

since when was negotiating with terrorists considered a solution to dealing with terrorists? What happened to non negotiation with the terrorists?