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Sola fide: Quick question to those who believe in salvation by faith alone

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posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 11:52 AM
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As many of you know, I am a Protestant-leaning Catholic, so I still dabble a bit in the Solas.

I came across a question on a Traditionalist Catholic blog this morning, though, that has me scratching my head.

If a person is saved solely through their belief in Christ, does that mean that Satanists will be saved? They believe in God, they just don't like him very much.




posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 12:07 PM
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The word 'satanist' I believe covers various beliefs on Jesus and his role. I also believe some dont believe he existed at all.

I think when the bible states belief in Christ is the key to salvation, I is refering to the christ of the bible and not any other manifestation of christ people make up to suit their needs or beliefs.
Jesus is from the Bible. When he appears in any other context, it is false.....an antichrist.

If you believe in the Christ of the Bible, the one that came to be sacrificed for our sins, then I think they are the people who would be saved. Any other version of Christ, you will not.....according to the Bible.

Im guessing Satanists believe Christ came from the 'bad' God, not the 'good' guy....Satan. So they believe in a different Christ.

These are my thoughts, Im no expert.

A good strong faith should automatically yield good works. Faith alone is the key.

Doing good things just to get saved is the wrong reason. Therefore it is not what gets you saved. Good works with a strong faith, usually yields good works for the right reasons...purley to help others with no thought about yourself and wether you will benefit or not.
edit on 29-7-2014 by pennydrops because: (no reason given)
edit on 29-7-2014 by pennydrops because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 12:34 PM
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a reply to: adjensen
You are juggling a little with the phrase "believe in", which can be taken in different ways.
Let us suppose that Satanists believe "that God exists" (I'm not convinced that the modern Satanist genuinely believes in the existence of either God or Satan, but let that pass).
But New Testament Faith is about a lot more than "believing God exists". It is about committing oneself to God in trust, which the Satanist obviously cannot do.

The same argument applies when James makes the same point about demons.





edit on 29-7-2014 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 12:36 PM
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You do well to believe in God for demons do and they shiver .The Gospel is plainly believing that Jesus died for your sins ,and that in believing that, you have eternal life . There does not seem to be salvation provided for fallen Angels or for demons, what ever kind of a being they might be . a reply to: adjensen



posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 12:37 PM
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originally posted by: adjensen
As many of you know, I am a Protestant-leaning Catholic, so I still dabble a bit in the Solas.

I came across a question on a Traditionalist Catholic blog this morning, though, that has me scratching my head.

If a person is saved solely through their belief in Christ, does that mean that Satanists will be saved? They believe in God, they just don't like him very much.


Awesome question.

Even if you include the requirements of acts alongside faith, this same question could be asked. There are plenty of Satanists (theistic) who believe in the Christian god and are very charitable with their time and money.

So what happens to the humble Satanist who volunteers at the soup kitchen every weekend?



posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 12:45 PM
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originally posted by: adjensen
As many of you know, I am a Protestant-leaning Catholic, so I still dabble a bit in the Solas.

I came across a question on a Traditionalist Catholic blog this morning, though, that has me scratching my head.

If a person is saved solely through their belief in Christ, does that mean that Satanists will be saved? They believe in God, they just don't like him very much.


Are you sure Satanists believe in God? I watched a vid with Anton LaVeys daughter here on ATS once and she said that Satanists only believe in Satan and God as archetypes.



posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 12:45 PM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
The same argument applies when James makes the same point about demons.

Naturally I covered this question in my series on James;

ch2v19 attacks the merely spoken Faith from a different angle.
Merely believing in the one God is not enough; even the demons know that, and it doesn’t do them any good.
But merely “believing that God exists” would not be an adequate definition of saving Faith anywhere else in the New Testament, either.
Admittedly Hebrews ch11 v6 says “Whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists”, but even in Hebrews this is only the beginning.
The essential ingredient of the word Faith is trust, as that chapter of Hebrews is demonstrating, and this trust in God is what the demons cannot experience.

James; Faith and Works
(I'm particularly pleased with the "crossing the bridge" metaphor in that OP)

edit on 29-7-2014 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 01:01 PM
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14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

Yes the demons believe in God, but believing in God is far more than just a belief you hold in your head, but it is a conviction.

Example: if you say you believe that you left your wallet at the restaurant you ate at, you would then go back there to find it as opposed to checking the laundry room.

I don't put my faith in creeds made by men, for the sola fide doctrine can be mis-interpreted. The whole of Biblical text shows that deeds are a product of faith, the deeds themselves aren't what God requires, or else the rich young ruler wouldn't have been so sad.



posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 01:23 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI


But New Testament Faith is about a lot more than "believing God exists". It is about committing oneself to God in trust, which the Satanist obviously cannot do.

Under Arminianism, which I was/am, I agree, but the vast majority of Sola fide proponents are not Arminian. Under the Doctrines of Unconditional election and Irresistible Grace from the Synod of Dort, I don't see how one is required to commit to God or even trust him.



posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 01:26 PM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1


There does not seem to be salvation provided for fallen Angels or for demons, what ever kind of a being they might be

Well, a Fundamentalist would say that fallen angels and demons are not descended from Adam, and that's why they cannot be saved. They definitely seem to be outside of the plan of salvation, regardless, so I'm not sure that we can equate their belief and lack of saving grace with a human who believed but chose to side against God.



posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 01:29 PM
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a reply to: adjensen
Calvinism has never appealed to me, either, so I can't speak for that viewpoint.
But they would probably still distinguish between "saving faith" and merely "believing that God exists".



posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 01:31 PM
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a reply to: Cuervo


So what happens to the humble Satanist who volunteers at the soup kitchen every weekend?

The Catholic in me says there is no salvation outside of Christ, while the Protestant in me says that there aren't enough soup kitchens in the world to save someone.

I'm so conflicted, lol.



posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 01:33 PM
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a reply to: adjensen

I don't understand how anyone can get "faith alone" from the gospels... or anything outside of Pauls writing in the NT

I would say the so called "Satanist" that is humble and giving all his life has a better chance at "salvation" then the Christian who turns his back on others in need




posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 01:38 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI
Further to that reply, I've got a copy of Berkhof's Systematic Theology, which is certainly Calvinistic.
In his definition of faith, he includes as the "crowning element" (p505) "a personal trust in Christ as Saviour and Lord, including a surrender of the soul as guilty and defiled to Christ, and a reception and appropriation of Christ as the source of pardon and of spiritual life".
Obviously the Satanists are not doing this, so they don't have what he would call faith.



posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 01:41 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI


But they would probably still distinguish between "saving faith" and merely "believing that God exists"

I don't think so, which is sort of what prompted the question in the first place (my initial response was to think it rather preposterous.) In classic Calvinism, we are so depraved that we contribute nothing to salvation, not even the conscious choice to desire to be saved. The election is on God's part, not on ours, and if God elected to save a Satanist, for whatever reason, he would be saved, whether he liked it or not.



posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 01:43 PM
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originally posted by: Tucket

originally posted by: adjensen
As many of you know, I am a Protestant-leaning Catholic, so I still dabble a bit in the Solas.

I came across a question on a Traditionalist Catholic blog this morning, though, that has me scratching my head.

If a person is saved solely through their belief in Christ, does that mean that Satanists will be saved? They believe in God, they just don't like him very much.


Are you sure Satanists believe in God? I watched a vid with Anton LaVeys daughter here on ATS once and she said that Satanists only believe in Satan and God as archetypes.


That's LaVey Satanism, though. There are also theistic Satanists who actually believe in the Abrahamic pantheon of gods.

As many on ATS are aware, LaVey Satanism is pretty much Ayn Rand's capitalist philosophies wrapped in a treatment of anything Anton could think of to piss off Christians. Many of them will say the same thing; it's not really an insult to them. They still believe in spirituality as far as using ritual to affect things just like the Christians do but it's more secular in their understanding of the divine.

The folks who actually worship that Satan fella as a god who is literally at odds with the YHWH folks are a different group all together.



posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 01:47 PM
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a reply to: Akragon


I don't understand how anyone can get "faith alone" from the gospels… or anything outside of Pauls writing in the NT

I don't either, but I've long held that it is more of a semantic issue that anything else -- Catholics believe that works play a part in salvation, so they are required, while Protestants believe that works demonstrate salvation, so they are required.


I would say the so called "Satanist" that is humble and giving all his life has a better chance at "salvation" then the Christian who turns his back on others in need

I'd say that they're both boned -- the Satanist for declaring himself an enemy of God, and the Christian for declaring himself the enemy of his neighbour.



posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 01:48 PM
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a reply to: adjensen
Evidently you haven't yet seen my quotation from Berkhof.
I think the distinction may be thus;
As Arminians we think we choose an attitude of trust in God.
The Calvinist thinks that God chooses to give us an attitude of trust in God.
But the definition would still include "trust in God", either way.



posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 01:55 PM
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a reply to: adjensen

I believe in Satan as probably do you. Does that make us Satanists?



posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 01:57 PM
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a reply to: adjensen


Catholics believe that works play a part in salvation, so they are required, while Protestants believe that works demonstrate salvation, so they are required.


I suppose I would have to go with the Catholic version then...

IF works demonstrate salvation, Atheists and Satanists can both be saved... OF course I've heard plenty of arguments about this... One which makes me laugh is that Only Christians can demonstrate Love... without Christ its impossible.

I think the whole "faith alone" idea comes from one verse from Paul... Those who do not work yet believe are still saved... Jesus said otherwise


I'd say that they're both boned -- the Satanist for declaring himself an enemy of God, and the Christian for declaring himself the enemy of his neighbour.


I think that would depend on what kind of "Satanist" we're talking about... I think many who claim to be Satanists are in actuality just claiming to be against Christianity... basically just an image they're trying to promote

Likely this idea stems from said person being told their going to hell one too many times... It pisses people off to hear such things... Once someone hears it enough they either accept it and try to change, or challenge it... Like "what makes you better then me"?

When it comes down to it... "faith alone" just won't cut it...







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