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Can someone please tell me the last time "Palestinians" ever controlled "Palestine"

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posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 12:42 PM
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a reply to: Bilk22

here's a history lesson for ya. you might want to get out pencil and paper. there has always been a Hebrew/Jewish presence in the land from 1200BCE to present day. to claim other wise is being ignorant to history.

below is a wiki,cause it's fast. and as i have said before the is a whole resource list at the bottom of each and every wiki, which usually links to external sources, references, and bibliography in case you would like to do your own research.

i now direct your attention to sections, 7 Under Islamic rule, 8 Under Crusader rule 9 Gradual revival with increased immigration 10 Growth and stability under Ottoman rule, and 11,11.1,11.2
from this wiki, History of the Jews and Judaism in the Land of Israel

just a few sniplets from the above wiki.

section 7 Under Islamic rule



After the conquest, Jewish communities began to grow and flourish. Umar allowed and encouraged Jews to settle in Jerusalem. It was first time, after almost 500 years of oppressive Christian rule, that Jews were allowed to enter and worship freely in their holy city.[58] Seventy Jewish families from Tiberias moved to Jerusalem in order to help strengthen the Jewish community there.[59]


section 8 Under Crusader rule


According to Gilbert, from 1099 to 1291 the Christian Crusaders "mercilessly persecuted and slaughtered the Jews of Palestine."[69] In 1099, the Jews were among the rest of the population who tried in vain to defend Jerusalem against the Crusaders. When the city fell, a massacre of 6,000 Jews occurred when the synagogue they were seeking refuge in was set alight. Almost all perished.[70] In Haifa, the Jews and Muslims held out for a whole month, (June–July 1099).[71] Under Crusader rule, Jews were not allowed to hold land and involved themselves in commerce in the coastal towns during times of quiescence. Most of them were artisans: glassblowers in Sidon, furriers and dyers in Jerusalem.[citation needed] At this time there were Jewish communities scattered all over the country, including Jerusalem, Tiberias, Ramleh, Ashkelon, Caesarea, and Gaza. In line with trail of bloodshed the Crusaders left in Europe on their way to liberate the Holyland, in Palestine, both Muslims and Jews were indiscriminately massacred or sold into slavery.[72]


Jews and Arabs fight side by side



In the crusading era, there were significant Jewish communities in several cities and Jews are known to have fought alongside Arabs against the Christian invaders.[74]


section 9 Gradual revival with increased immigration



The Crusader rule over Palestine had taken its toll on the Jews. Relief came in 1187 when Ayyubid Sultan Saladin defeated the Crusaders in the Battle of Hattin, taking Jerusalem and most of Palestine. (A Crusader state centred round Acre survived in weakened form for another century.) In time, Saladin issued a proclamation inviting all Jews to return and settle in Jerusalem,[75] and according to Judah al-Harizi, they did: "From the day the Arabs took Jerusalem, the Israelites inhabited it."[76] al-Harizi compared Saladins decree allowing Jews to re-establish themselves in Jerusalem to the one issued by the Persian Cyrus the Great over 1,600 years earlier


section 10 Growth and stability under Ottoman rule



The 16th-century nevertheless saw a resurgence of Jewish life in Palestine. Palestinian rabbis were instrumental producing a universally accepted manual of Jewish law and some of the most beautiful liturgical poems. Much of this activity occurred at Safed which had become a spiritual centre, a haven for mystics. Joseph Karo's comprehensive guide to Jewish law, the Shulchan Aruch, was considered so authoritative that the variant customs of German-Polish Jewry were merely added as supplement glosses.[




In around 1563, Joseph Nasi secured permission from Sultan Selim II to acquire Tiberias and seven surrounding villages to create a Jewish city-state.[110] He hoped that large numbers of Jewish refugees and Marranos would settle there, free from fear and oppression; indeed, the persecuted Jews of Cori, Italy, numbering about 200 souls, decided to emigrate to Tiberias.[111][112] Nasi had the walls of the town rebuilt by 1564 and attempted to turn it into a self-sufficient textile manufacturing center by planting mulberry trees for the cultivation of silk. Nevertheless, a number of factors during the following years contributed to the plan's ultimate failure. Nasi's aunt, Doña Gracia Mendes Nasi supported a yeshiva in the town for many years until her death in 1569.[113] In 1576, the Jewish community of Safed faced an expulsion order: 1,000 prosperous families were to be deported to Cyprus, "for the good of the said island", with another 500 the following year.[114] The order was later rescinded due to the realisation of the financial gains of Jewish rental income.[115] In 1586, the Jews of Istanbul agreed to build a fortified khan to provide a refuge for Safed's Jews against "night bandits and armed thieves."[114]


Section 11, 11.1 11.2



During World War I the British had made two promises regarding territory in the Middle East. Britain had promised the local Arabs, through Lawrence of Arabia, independence for a united Arab country covering most of the Arab Middle East, in exchange for their supporting the British; and Britain had promised to create and foster a Jewish national home as laid out in the Balfour Declaration, 1917.


as you can see there is well documented evidence that the Hebrew/Jews and Arabs have both been in the land. it is also safe to say that the Hebrews/Jews were as a people longer, then the Arabs, but that is for another thread.

both are of a Semitic origin and evidence shows a record from 1200 BCE to present day.








edit on 29-7-2014 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 12:46 PM
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The answer to your valid question is...never.

However, the Palestinians could have had their own sovereign state a long time ago if they accepted the UN Partition Plan that was drafted in 1947 instead of declaring war on Israel.



posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 12:57 PM
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Id say the people that lived or live on the land still own and control it, but if im going by la la land treatys ( religion) god owns it really, does israel still have the receipt from god, or did they lose it and hope that people go on faith and believe there claim on the land.

Oh and to the posters but but it was a desert until the oh so awsomer israelits build da best place on earth.



posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 01:02 PM
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a reply to: hounddoghowlie

So when are you moving out, my ancestors lived on the land you live on, so you have 24 hours to move before i shoot mortar rounds to help clear your rubble.

Have a nice day.



posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 01:23 PM
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a reply to: hounddoghowlie
I never claimed there were no jews in the region. Never. The jews lived among the arab nations. There was no jewish state. That is a 20th century convention.



posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 01:26 PM
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a reply to: dukeofjive696969

no point being, the Jews have had a claim and had a representative population on the land from the time they moved in it to now. just as the Arabs, not who has been the the ruling government.

as i have pointed out before, both Hebrew/Jews and Arabs are of a Semitic origin, and that most scholars say came out of the fertile crescent as nomads.



posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 01:27 PM
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originally posted by: Bilk22
a reply to: hounddoghowlie
I never claimed there were no jews in the region. Never. The jews lived among the arab nations. There was no jewish state. That is a 20th century convention.

So Judean? Hasmonean? Samarian? The High Synod in Tyre. Those. Jewish/Hebrew kingdoms never existed i guess
Flavius Josephus Would probably disagree
edit on 29-7-2014 by dashen because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 01:29 PM
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a reply to: dashen

Lol using that israel existed 2000 years ago has proof they own the land, comical at best there bud



posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 01:31 PM
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a reply to: hounddoghowlie
You're also missing a lot of history there my friend. Look up the Assyrian Empire. You cannot pick and choose your history.



posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 01:33 PM
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originally posted by: dashen

originally posted by: Bilk22
a reply to: hounddoghowlie
I never claimed there were no jews in the region. Never. The jews lived among the arab nations. There was no jewish state. That is a 20th century convention.

So Judean? Hasmonean? Samarian? The High Synod in Tyre. Those. Jewish/Hebrew kingdoms never existed i guess
Flavius Josephus Would probably disagree
Have a good read.

Kingdom of Judah



posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 01:34 PM
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originally posted by: dukeofjive696969
a reply to: dashen

Lol using that israel existed 2000 years ago has proof they own the land, comical at best there bud

Someone said that a Jewish state is a 20th century convention. I say it is at 20th century BC convention. And that Jews have been living on the land since then. Without interruption.



posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 01:37 PM
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a reply to: dashen

There was never a palestinian sovereign state. During the time of the British mandate of palestine, the term 'palestinian' was used to refer to Jews that resided in the british mandate of palestine.



posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 01:38 PM
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originally posted by: Bilk22

originally posted by:blick22
Have a good read.

Kingdom of Judah



Thank you I am well aware of my history.
But did you read it?
edit on 29-7-2014 by dashen because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 01:41 PM
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a reply to: Bilk22

well that depends on how far you want to go back. are you saying the Israel and Judah didn't exit until Assyrian captivity, then left just Judah. Both are the same peoples, from the same line. and counting both of them, ruled the land longer than any Arab or Muslim people ever have, and have had a continual presence there.

you know Israel has the same rights to live there as do the Palestinian Arabs. both come from a Semitic nomadic origin and roamed around the land.



posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 01:43 PM
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a reply to: dashen

Semetic people have lived on the land for ever, now how is israel which is mainly populated by non semetic people owners of that region. Care to elaborate using non religious books or beliefs to say who owns the land.



posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 01:45 PM
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a reply to: hounddoghowlie

So im guessing here that if the natives that owned the land you live own move back in, youd be more than willing to move because you know theve been there longer.
edit on 29-7-2014 by dukeofjive696969 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 01:46 PM
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a reply to: combatmaster

And your point is that more than 2000 years ago is a valid point for stealing land, might need to pack up there bud, cause the land you live on isint yours i guess.



posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 01:51 PM
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originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: Bilk22

well that depends on how far you want to go back. are you saying the Israel and Judah didn't exit until Assyrian captivity, then left just Judah. Both are the same peoples, from the same line. and counting both of them, ruled the land longer than any Arab or Muslim people ever have, and have had a continual presence there.

you know Israel has the same rights to live there as do the Palestinian Arabs. both come from a Semitic nomadic origin and roamed around the land.

Now who would disagree that both have a right to live there? I'm not making that claim.

Something people responding to this thread should read.

Link



posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 02:03 PM
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originally posted by: combatmaster
a reply to: dashen

There was never a palestinian sovereign state. During the time of the British mandate of palestine, the term 'palestinian' was used to refer to Jews that resided in the british mandate of palestine.


well actually,,

"Palæstina Prima or Palaestina I was a Byzantine province from 390,
until the 7th century. It was lost to the Jewish Sassanid Commonwealth in 614,
but was re-annexed in 628,
before its final loss during the Muslim conquest of Syria in 636."

en.wikipedia.org...


quote "During the Byzantine period, Palestina Prima gradually became a center of Christianity, attracting numerous monks and religious scholars from the Near East and Southern Europe, and abandoning previous Roman and Hellenistic cults. "

yeah,,,how times change.



posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 02:03 PM
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originally posted by: dukeofjive696969
a reply to: combatmaster

And your point is that more than 2000 years ago is a valid point for stealing land, might need to pack up there bud, cause the land you live on isint yours i guess.


Nobody is saying 2000 years ago. Everyone is saying 2000 years straight!



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