Turkey sends aid to Gaza with a fleet of warships

originally posted by: Catacomb
I wonder just what the USA would do, if Israel attacked the Turkish ships?

Well, if the Turkish navy ships entered Israeli territory without permission then Israel has the right to attack them....

Erdogan knows Obama is a weak leader and a sympathizer to Islam. In a sane world, Turkey would be kicked out of NATO.

originally posted by: Stuyvesant
Erdogan knows Obama is a weak leader and a sympathizer to Islam. In a sane world, Turkey would be kicked out of NATO.

You might want to reconsider that. Check out the Black Sea:



Guess which country controls access to it?

a reply to: intrepid
UK controls it... I know that very good, trust me, its not turkey that controls the entry and exit of black seas.

a reply to: Ploutonas

Really? Damn, my Google is better than your opinion:

The 1936 Montreux Convention provides for a free passage of civilian ships between the international waters of the Black and the Mediterranean Seas. However, a single country (Turkey) has a complete control over the straits connecting the two seas. The 1982 amendments to the Montreux Convention allow Turkey to close the Straits at its discretion in both wartime and peacetime.

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: intrepid

I study marinetime and oceanography, so I know that better than google and I also live very near. The entry and exit only brits communicate with you and only british navigators come aboard the ships to drive you in and out and for inspections. And to be honnest I learned it this year, I thought its turkey also...

edit: I will re-call this info from my teachers, because he told me that UK controls the pass for the industrial boats (gass boats or bulk boats), I remember that very clear because I got surprised. But I tempt to believe my teacher, because turkey is not an appropriate candidate controlling this pass, they wouldn't let the greek boats to pass (and the biggest marine industry of the planet is greek) they wouldnt let Russia or usa now, to pass and turks are known of violating laws and agreements... So its more logical to be brits, but its something that may not be known to the public after all. I learned it this year in my studies, that only brits as nevigators and inspectors checking the boats, NOT turks.

We may have to check IMO/SOLAS/ITU laws about international shipyards, traffic and communications. Who navigates and controlls... it must be short of international.

Back to the OP I believe Turkey will eventually dissociate itself from the west.....
They have the 6th largest military machine in the world and are intensely tough fighters with little of the western sentiments about them......
Turkey with oil would be formidable I believe....and they will have their oil.....

a reply to: Catacomb

Eh, every nation on earth has it's own dark past and Turkey is no different.

originally posted by: ken10
Haha, lets see Israel attack a Turkish warship, That could result in NATO being called to war with Israel.

Here's hoping lol

You need to study up on Nato Articles 5 & 6. The response is not automatic. If NATO chooses to respond to a member claiming Article 5 it is voted on and the response could be a strongly worded letter. Sending a warship into another country's war zone and then having that warship attacked was not the intention on Article 5. I doubt if Nato would respond at all.

Turkey certainly has the ability to attack Israel alone. If it did over this flotilla business I believe that they would have big trouble with NATO members. Also it could be the lynch pin to WW3 as Israel could not defend their little country from an all out Turkish attack with only using conventional weapons.

originally posted by: stirling
Back to the OP I believe Turkey will eventually dissociate itself from the west.....
They have the 6th largest military machine in the world and are intensely tough fighters with little of the western sentiments about them......
Turkey with oil would be formidable I believe….and they will have their oil.....

Actually I find it listed at 8th.

www.globalfirepower.com...

www.businessinsider.com...

a reply to: whywhynot
When Israel attacked the supply ship from Turkey last time they did it on open waters. Also the waters the Israel is blockading belongs to Palestine not Israel so Israel has no say whether the warships from Turkey can go there are not.

originally posted by: buster2010
a reply to: whywhynot
When Israel attacked the supply ship from Turkey last time they did it on open waters. Also the waters the Israel is blockading belongs to Palestine not Israel so Israel has no say whether the warships from Turkey can go there are not.

That's interesting. Can you back that up?

a reply to: hellobruce

If I was Israel, I would not want to attack the Turks. They have a pretty rich history of being bad ass as # when it comes to military conflicts... Israel may have soldiers forged in terror, using US weapons. How ever, the Turks have soldiers forged from pride, using Soviet/turkish/US weapons....

Soldiers running on fear(israel) are scary because they don't give two #s who they kill(women, children and other civilians,) but a soldier who operates on pride will try to kill you if all he has left is one arm and a stick.

originally posted by: buster2010
a reply to: whywhynot
When Israel attacked the supply ship from Turkey last time they did it on open waters. Also the waters the Israel is blockading belongs to Palestine not Israel so Israel has no say whether the warships from Turkey can go there are not.

Nevertheless, my statement regarding NATO Article 5 still stands true and under this circumstance I doubt if NATO would lift a finger to aid Turkey.

Also, when a country is in a war with another country it has the internationally accepted right to make a blockade.

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: buster2010
a reply to: whywhynot
When Israel attacked the supply ship from Turkey last time they did it on open waters. Also the waters the Israel is blockading belongs to Palestine not Israel so Israel has no say whether the warships from Turkey can go there are not.

That's interesting. Can you back that up?

Here you go.

The Purple border is the limit of territorial waters as you can see the attack on the ships happened well beyond Israels waters. Also the water off Gaza belongs to Gaza not Israel.

originally posted by: buster2010
Also the water off Gaza belongs to Gaza not Israel.

That's what I'm trying to determine and that map didn't help.

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: buster2010
Also the water off Gaza belongs to Gaza not Israel.

That's what I'm trying to determine and that map didn't help.

The map shows lines at the border of Gaza showing what waters belongs to them that is why the supply ships planned to go straight into Gaza.

a reply to: buster2010

Well if that's Palestinian water this could get VERY messy.

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: buster2010

Well if that's Palestinian water this could get VERY messy.

Oh yes it could get very messy. Because Turkey doesn't have to honor the Israeli blockade and if Israel was smart they would let the supply ships through.

originally posted by: whywhynot
Also, when a country is in a war with another country it has the internationally accepted right to make a blockade.

In another's territorial waters?