Why do people assume teenagers are a 'unique species' which adults struggle to communicate with?

a reply to: xDeadcowx
...allowed to be anything he wants to be, as long as it doesn't involve being a prick to anyone else.
Simple rules, but then I'm pretty much 'simple folk' myself lol

a reply to: grainofsand

originally posted by: grainofsand
I agree with that.
I'm lucky that the local police here are pretty chilled out and try to find 'parental recourse' first before making criminals out of young people. My lad has been brought home once in a police car with no official mark on his record or anything after they caught him with a substance he shouldn't legally have been carrying.
No career damaging caution or conviction, and he learned from the experience...that was a sensible and well received policing move by the cops involved and I am glad they play it that way in my part of the world.

I'm assuming you are in the UK?

That does not happen here in the US.

We now regularly arrest our youth for the most benign of offensives (including simple speech), punch, tackle, taze or restrain them as livestock, and place them in solitary confinement.

Anyone in this country who doesn't believe this is happening is asleep at the wheel.

a reply to: grainofsand


I have to agree with everything you have said. My daughter has on
her own (the father drifted in and out of their lives) brought up a
son and daughter as young adults and not as a "species" apart.

Their upbringing has involved respect and consideration for all three
generations above them, where as their peers have lived in a cult of
"youth" doing 'their own thing" as if it were some new fangled thing
discovered and invented by youth. When my daughter encounters the
parents of her children's friends they cannot believe how sensible and
mature her children are, remarking on how their own children are on a
planet completely of their own.

She has earned the right to bask in the many times she has been
complimented on her children, (now young adults) and the many times
she has been told "She must have done something right" for the way they
have turned out.
Like yourself she is astounded at the lack of interest and discipline and
total lack of example shown to the young generation, just a case of
letting them get on with it!!

Could it be that its often the case of children bringing up children?? My
daughter had her children in her thirties and was considered an 'older'
parent as most of the other parents were at least 10/15 years younger!?

originally posted by: xDeadcowx
a reply to: Biigs

I think you hit the nail on the head. A lot of parents try and fit their children in to the life they envision for the teenager, with zero consideration to what the teenager wants, or will want later.

Doesn't sound like OP tried to force his son to do anything and just allowed him to be.

Take the resentment out of the picture and you are left with a great relationship.

absolutely.

Its like when parents force their kids in the military, if the kid isnt built (mentally for physically) for it, the parents are doing nothing good and applying a mild torture - and the kids will hate them for it.

a reply to: loam
Yes, UK, South West coast of England.
Wow, that sounds totally self-defeating by the police forces as it can only breed contempt with the testosterone fuelled young men that are our teenagers, and adults of the future.

Our cops don't carry guns though and even with the few who are authorised to carry tazers they know in our police area that they are well outnumbered if it all kicked off and they just have their batons.
I touched on it in this thread of mine recently:
Is it police numbers or a nice environment that keeps the peace, or is it just a crazy mix?
...I think most of them genuinely do want to work things out with young people though and guide them rather than just punish them. It works as well, as far as I've seen at least.

originally posted by: eletheia
Could it be that its often the case of children bringing up children?? My
daughter had her children in her thirties and was considered an 'older'
parent as most of the other parents were at least 10/15 years younger!?

That is most definitely a growing challenge for society with 16 year olds and younger having kids.
I actually know many who have chosen the 'have a child' route because they know it is a welfare funded option to get a home and cash benefits which are at a similar or more advantageous level than minimum wage, but without having to leave the house every morning. Tragic.

If the anecdotal number of people I know who chose that path was representative of our wider nation then the numbers would be horrendous.

*Edit*
I'm crashing out now so no replies from me for a while as a busy day tomorrow, but if anyone wants to share their own opinions of 'those crazy cat teenagers' then please do as I prefer reading original anecdotal material from ATS'ers than any MSM outlet any day.

a reply to: grainofsand

When there is equal custody, it seems to make rebellious teens move and stay where the rules are lighter or non existent. At least from my own experience, both having some run from this home and some running to it.

If the parents don't have ulterior motives along the journey it would be immensely different though I'm thinking.

Either way being there and loving them is all you can do. All the best.

Cheers

am i living in a totally different world?cause i,m in uk and i can tell you that the kids i know are totally out of control and phoning the police about it you may as well stick lottery on cause you,ve more chance of winning that than the police doing anything about it.

kids are running the streets and police are running scared,seriously come to my street at half 2 in morning when you,ve got them fighting and causing anti social behaviour and police do nothing and tell me they are misunderstood.

i,ve got a full street of people phoning police every weekend but by next weekend its the same again and still we,re putting up with it.

kids have no respect anymore and its just going to get worse.

a reply to: grainofsand

When I was a teenager I was the smartest person on the planet, then one day I realized the older I got the smarter my parents were.

What this world needs is someone to speak to kids in highschool that has a cool head is well respected, that can convey the concept of high school is such a small part of a persons life. That it is doubtful you have met your best friend yet, and every pressure you feel today will be gone by the time you're 20. Convince them that when you're thirty they will look back and say WTF was I thinking the world is such a different place. That everything they find important now will likely be of little consequence later in life. That the only thing they can depend of is themselves, and family.

It isn't teenagers that are a different species - it is pre-teens...

Ours lost their brains in middle school and then grew them slowly back in high school. Now, my 2 sons have both graduated college and my step daughter is in her 3rd year of college and wants to go on to law school after she graduates.

Actually, we were lucky - similar situation with a blended family and we were all just really open with the kids. I laughed so hard the first time my son accidentally dropped an F-bomb in front of me. He and my step daughter both turned and looked at me with huge eyes and "oh no" faces. I couldn't maintain a straight face and just busted out laughing - so much for decorum!

Don't get me wrong, the kids are very polite to the "Grands" and behave with very nice manners in public. In fact, they like to get together with the extended family for stuff that surprises me - like my husband's Uncle's 80th birthday, a couple of weeks ago. They just know we are "real" and basically treat others as you want to be treated.

a reply to: grainofsand

Thanks for sharing your story.

The part you are missing maybe is that you seem pretty sane, and not a tight ass (since you enjoyed yourself as a kid/youth). Not everyone is like that; some are repressed or too restrained in their youth and just have psychological/personality issues.

It was good hearing the story about how you guys went about the divorce. Good to see some reasonable people out there.

I think a lot of it has to do with pride.

Teenagers believe they are grown up enough and competent to make it in the world. They feel they are capable of almost anything; they are invincible.

They don't understand there is a whole lot more to know and learn and don't take being told what to do well.

It's all a part of growing up: wanting to stretch your legs and be your own person, but still not quite old enough to do it on your own.

a reply to: ArnoldNonymous
Sounds an awful lot like grownups to me
I have never had a problem getting along with any age really, probably because I treat everyone as my equal. I don't talk down at people, just because I have some years more experience. Or because they are old people, a lot of people are condescending toward elders as well for some reason.

I personally don't assume anything. I interact. Once, I was wearing a Bleach T-Shirt, walking into a grocery store while a group of 3 teens were walking out, and one of them said to me out of the blue, "Sir, I have that same shirt at home." We both smiled, because we understood the content, and the mentality behind wearing such a shirt, and he respected me for that. Honestly, I didn't think teenagers used that word anymore, but my faith was restored. Of course, it was my own then 15 year old son that I was watching Bleach anime with on YouTube and TV. Hell, there were several series we followed, not only because I knew enough to be interested in what he was interested in, but he was the scoop on what was trending, and that stuff actually had a deeper story line than a simple anime feature. Most parents don't pay attention to what their kids like, and therefore alienate them. He taught me how to play Yu-Gi-Oh when he was about 12, and even though I'd cream him after I understood the game, he'd come back with an even more balanced deck and exact his revenge. He's 22 now, in university, and started a Yu-Gi-Oh team on campus. I still have my own deck, but doubt I would last more than a few rounds. The cards evolved, while I haven't. Meh, he knows that, and only wants an opportunity down the road for another duel. He'll easily bring me up to speed.

The point I'd like to make is that it is mostly the young males that engender new roles to follow, and sadly enough, the young females are enamoured by whatever role the newest generation provides. If parents teach the boys how to treat the girls properly, society wouldn't have the issues it does. Society is still male oriented, with males dictacting the lead, and women following suit. It's the way it's been for centuries.

Then, to be fair, I have to add in my 18 year old daughter (on August 2nd). She's been the hormonal demon spawn from hell. She got her period at 11, sex at 13, license at 16, and is now a stable being mostly. Girls are so much harder to raise than boys. Throughout it all, she never had a problem communicating her feelings, never afraid to cry from her mistakes when chastised, and has no problem telling me how she feels. After she got her first period, I sat her down and had the "birds and bees" talk with her, and drew out diagrams of the female reproductive system, the male reproductive system, and how she can get pregnant now that she was fertile. I told her to always use a condom, and that if she needed, I would buy them for her. I knew then that her hormones would soon be raging, and that "peer pressure" from both the boys, as well as her female peers, would assault her, so I armed her with information.

She got busted, at 13, for having sex, finding out later she skipped school. The evidence? A used condom in her trashcan in her room. Stupid kids are sloppy.

That's a matter of opinion, actually, because out of the 5 girls in her graduating class that WERE pregnant at graduation time, she was not one of them. I couldn't keep her from having sex, because all the teenage girls are, and if you think they are not, ask your own teenage daughter what a "rainbow party" is. Teenage sex in the school systems is rampant, and out of control, thanks to a whole plethora of reasons. Don't be fooled there.

Is it just the horny boys wanting to get laid? Can we cast all the blame there? Nope. It's these devilish girls as well, with no guidance, listening to TV, social media, their peers, their txt messages, and the pressure to have a "boyfriend" or not be "cool". Competition to have "status" for young females is absurdly demanding in today's world, and you'd be a fool not to believe otherwise.

Teenagers are not a unique species. They are young humans, as we once were, but with a million more demands on them due to the advent of internet, and access to instant communication via whatever means. Peer pressure, not common sense, dictates their actions overall.

I am not left unscathed in my parenting. But so it is.

You're a smart guy. Adults like to have fun too, but are shocked when their teen wants to. People have a skewed vision of reality. When kids are forced to sneak around to do things and don't have the access to do it safely, that's where things go wrong. That's why kids don't want to be around their parents at that age. It's like "oh my god, Timothy, you said a swear word! Why do you wear clothes that you like instead of what I think you shoul wear?" First of all he probably just wants to be called Tim at that age and do you wear the clothes yyou like? Why should he be any different. They just want to be free to experience life their way like any normal person. Not long ago a 16 year old was treated as an adult. We treat them like babies and wonder why they act so annoyed and distant.

a reply to: 3n19m470

You have pretty much summed up the whole 'different rules' thing that I think many parents have with their kids.
My son (from first being able to hold a conversation) has always been told by me that if he disagrees with whatever then it's always ok to say "dad I think you are making the wrong decision because...".

He's always been allowed to use 'colourful language' if it is appropriate, in context, and just when it's me and him.
He's always been allowed to challenge any 'dad resolution order' if he's had a reasoned argument to calmly explain why, because I myself reserve the right to disagree with anyone in life if I can use a reasoned and calm argument to explain why I do.

I've always told him that he didn't come with an instruction book so I just make it up as I go along based on what I think being a decent person involves. I have always clarified it with advice that whatever mess he thinks he may be in he can always shout me and I will help fix it because there is no mess he can probably get into that I've not been in myself or I know someone else who has. I've also shared my mess-up-stories as well as educational examples, instead of making out I'm some snow white perfect person - as the classic parent hypocrite. He's also always known that my intentions are always to help him get the best out of his life for himself...not for me.

Regarding the apparent accepted 'moody teenager' and parent disconnect as 'natural', I've never accepted it as natural. On the rare occassions he was 'moody' as an early teen I didn't get all angry/dominant and offended that as dad I demand respect, no, I asked him how he thought I'd react if one of my mates spoke to me like that, and how he would react if one of his mates did the same to him. Every time he responded as a bloke like me and we rationally sorted things out.
I don't actually remember when we were last cross with each other as it has been that long now.
Respect is always a two way street even if some parents feel they demand some magical kind of respect just because they happen to be the parents of the person they are in dispute with.
I demand exactly the same respect and consideration from my son that I do my close friends, it's never been a dictatorship of 'honour thy parents' just be as nice and reasonable to each other as we would expect anyone else.
In my experience as a parent it has totally been the way forward.

Oh, and I've never freaked when he makes a mistake because I've made enough myself, and too many parents forget that. I prefer to help him understand and learn from his mistakes (and give a bit of empathy when I can identify with the mistake) arbitrary punishment is so 20th century in my opinion, and just deters young people from being honest about things in the future.

I cringe when I see how other parents talk to their teenagers and have some control method instead of guidance and partnership with them. I get told 'Oh you're so lucky with the relationship you and your lad have' and I just say that it is because I have always worked hard at the relationship, nothing to do with luck...but then my definition of father/son relationship has the same two-way-street rules as any other relationship I have with someone I love.

I just love my son in a deeper way than I love anyone else of course, but rules about being nice and discussing any issues are exactly the same..