Origin of Creationism

a reply to: Puppylove

You: "I don't know the truth, but I know you don't know it because none of us can know it. But I know there is a truth. God abandoned us and left us unable to know it."

Me: "God did not abandon us. We can know the truth because of this fact. He wants us to seek the truth and seek Him."

The truth is a funny thing. It's something you hear or read. Either you will accept it when you hear it or you won't. If you won't - your mind will play a lot of tricks on you.

As for Hell, which is something you seem to have trouble reconciling, look at it like this. We choose between God and the world. Those who choose the world over God do a lot of stuff to the people who choose God over the world. When you look at the world we live in, what do you see?

There are people who will pretend to follow God while choosing this life and the world over God, form an army in Africa, give coc aine to children and traumatize them so they will kill without thinking - sometimes, for instance, after their mom was raped in front of them and then shot in front of them. Then, after a decade of killing for this warlord, that kid who is now a man is called out of the world by God's Son and dies for His truth.

What caused this situation in the world?

Have you ever been in a position that put you in so much pain that it *felt* like it would never end? Mentally, or physically, or both.

Never let anyone tell you God does not hate some people. Perfect justice will be done, whether the person committing evil every day believes it or not and no matter how far they decide to take things. God said that he hates those who love violence with a passion.

If God lets you know the Truth, and understand the Truth, and you choose the Truth over this fallen world - you will be forgiven for everything you have done. What is the Truth in this world? It is a Sword. Some are mistaken and think Jesus came to bring peace. He did not. He came to bring a Sword. A friend of the world is an enemy of God. Read a Gospel today, acquire the Sword, and you will be happy you made the choice. Seek the truth - God has not abandoned you.

But when you choose God
I mean REALLY CHOOSE God
First you hate yourself
Then
You die to yourself
You die to the world
You literally DIE to the world - your life is over already.
And you wouldn't trade it - for the world

a reply to: WeAllDieSoon

Another thing to add is if my understanding of the Scripture is correct, there are different levels of reward and punishment when we die.

We are at an impasse, I think it's good we agree to disagree and go our separate ways. Nothing will be accomplished here, and I must be off to bed.

I've learned recently that if I don't get enough sleep I seem to get depressive, suicidal, and become prone to panic attacks. So I'm going to quit now, go to bed, and see to it I maintain my mental health.

So good night, and good luck.

I will say one thing before I go though, I've only ever asked one thing of God, if he does exist, to take good care of my family. I am who I am, and will not lie about what I feel because of fear of damnation. If there is a God, he would see through it anyway. So I'm honest. If he's up there, I've told him straight up, I just can't believe for the reasons I can't believe. He knows what they are I don't need to spell them out. However, if I'm wrong, whatever He does to me, I ask to at least take care of my family.

a reply to: WeAllDieSoon

Howdy,

You claim to know the word of God pretty well, perhaps you step too far in this matter?

In some earlier posts you have made some bold claims
"I can refute every reason you conjure up to deny God, but the truth is if you want to deny Him - you will."
"Not very humble of you to claim to know what a merciful God does or does not do in a reality you claim to not understand. " (Yet you are claiming to know that this world is the work of a merciful god...)
"It is your worldly pride that tells you that you are being humble by stating that there is no tangible truth about God to be found in this world. Ironically enough, you do not believe it yourself."
"I constantly tell people to stop trusting their perceptions in this world of deception, and that truth is objective." (You know better than all people who trust reality, even those who are aware of the flaws in our perceptions.)
"Pride will blind you - and pride is something you are full of, to the point of claiming to know what a merciful God would do in this situation we see in this world." (Are you not doing this?)


Do you know what your God really hates?

Proverbs 6:16-19New International Version (NIV)

16 There are six things the Lord hates,
seven that are detestable to him:
17 haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
hands that shed innocent blood,
18 a heart that devises wicked schemes,
feet that are quick to rush into evil,
19 a false witness who pours out lies
and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.

Tell me, are you not guilty of having haughty eyes and stirring conflict in a community? You make claims that you know better than others and provide no evidence to support those claims. It is not sufficient to say that something is so, it must be demonstrated.

Sincere regards,
Hydeman

a reply to: hydeman11

Is your question about the meaning of "haughty eyes" and "stirring conflict in the community?"

Haughty eyes is referring to worldly pride. It's like a church member who looks down on someone in church for not tucking their shirt in, or because they are a different skin color, different economic class, have a criminal record etc... You know, worldly things. Or spiritual arrogance, such as feeling they are better than someone for understanding the truth better than them - or that because God has blessed them with a longer life they are better than someone who was killed young. There is a lot of other Scripture dealing with those topics.

Stirring conflict is like the person who does not want peace and truth, but would spread lies, gossip, instigate fights etc. Such as a person who intentionally takes a person's words out of context to create confusion and conflict (Satan does this with God's Word). You see that a lot in the world right? No wonder God hates it.


I am not guilty of those sins.

Is it your opinion that everyone who preaches the Gospel is arrogant, prideful, stirring conflict etc etc? Because the argument could be made that some people have a problem with me being alive, and my being alive is stirring conflict. But surely, that is not what God means.

a reply to: Puppylove

Well, if you don't look for God - don't be surprised if you don't find Him.

If you do look for Him, you are guaranteed to find Him.

Peace in Christ

originally posted by: GetHyped
a reply to: Another_Nut

Are you simple?? It's speciation. That's like saying "humans evolved from homo erectus but they're still apes!! Therefore evolution is wrong".

I see insults huh? The last bastion I guess

Let me quote Berkeley evolution 101

Since it seems yiu can be bothered


"A plausible model
We have several plausible models of how speciation occurs — but of course, it's hard for us to get an eye-witness account of a natural speciation event since most of these events happened in the distant past. We can figure out that speciation events happened and oftenwhen they happened, but it's more difficult to figure out how they happened."

a reply to: WeAllDieSoon

Howdy,

Your "pride" has been addressed by Puppylove, who has rightfully stated that we (all of us humans) cannot objectively prove (or disprove as far as I know) the existence of a god. You state that you know, but you provide no evidence to support your claim. This is thus an empty claim, based on anecdotal data at best, and certainly not objectively "proven." This is what births the conflict of which I speak in this community.

Don't get me wrong, I am open to your ideas. I am open to higher powers (and may I ask, what makes you so certain that you have chosen the correct deity? If the universe needs a creator, how do you know it was not some other creator god/goddess?). I don't currently agree with you, but I certainly wouldn't ask you to stop saying what you are saying. I don't believe censoring is ever a good idea in any society. Likewise, I don't think people sharing their beliefs is bad, regardless of their beliefs. But you step beyond this belief and state that what you know is unquestionably fact, without providing evidence. This is what I take issue with.

Sincere regards,
Hydeman

a reply to: hydeman11

The nature of the Truth is that not everyone hears it.

The proof of God is everywhere. Creation itself is proof.

Knowing the Truth and proclaiming it is not pride. I can provide evidence, which I already have, but proof is something that comes from God.

The truth is either God revealed the truth or He didn't. The truth is you have been given the ability to seek the truth. Where there is smoke...

Me, I know because I spent years seeking. My God has revealed Himself to me. He does that after you seek Him. He does it because He said He would.

You can't know if I am telling the truth, though. That is because God designed your reality so that it is up to you, personally, to seek the truth. If you hear it, and believe it, you will seek God. And then you will know what I know.

originally posted by: WeAllDieSoon
Hey do you know how I put that "~" thing at the top of my posts to prevent other posters from putting little green stars over my posts?

Only way to do that is by getting banned.

That "~" thing means someone has been banned for breaking too many T&Cs...

Not recommended BTW...

Those little green stars simply means someone else liked your post.

Why would you not want that?

a reply to: Murgatroid

Wrong thread lol

I don't like the green star system. It is childish for one, and for two I believe all posts should be read and considered based on the content and not the number of green stars. I know how many humans think, and false ways of thinking can be reinforced easily by "peer-group" interaction such as green stars. It is for this reason I would like to graduate from green stars. I haven't received a green star since preschool.

In fact, many of my least valuable posts get the most green stars - which encourages docile thought. If people see that no one is able to place a green star above my post - they will be compelled to read the post without the preconceived notion received from the green star count. This would in turn increase the chances of my more valuable posts being read and considered by people who, believe it or not, probably would not have given it as much consideration otherwise. Think people are not that easily manipulated and bias is not that easily generated? Think again, because they are and it is.

eta: just realized I asked you that question in this thread before making one about it. I thought u went through my recent posts lol. Anyways, I have not given anyone a green star since I showed up. I will protest the green star system until the end, because I am not longer 4 years old and do not like being treated like a 4 year old. Regrettably, everywhere we go in modern society, we are indeed treated like 4 year olds.

originally posted by: WeAllDieSoon
a reply to: hydeman11

The nature of the Truth is that not everyone hears it.

The proof of God is everywhere. Creation itself is proof.

The nature of common sense is that not everyone hears it (it ain't so common).

The nature of truth (as pertaining to our existence) is that there have been countless different versions of it by countless different charlatans throughout history.

"I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing." - Socrates.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

I'm listening to evidence that says that you are wrong, not scientists. We know for a fact that people move through time at different speeds. You've yet to refute that and instead insist on repeating the same thing OVER and OVER again. I've seen no evidence of your claims. All I've seen is your personal interpretation of the universe. Well that, at the least, is just an opinion and at the most a hypothesis. You haven't tested any of it and as far as I am concerned it is just a personal anecdote.

ETA: Can you please put your responses to me in just one post instead of 4 or 5 of them back to back?

a reply to: Another_Nut

Fair enough. You don't have to believe in dark energy or matter. They are HIGHLY theoretical concepts and we haven't proven if they exist or not. Though calculations are pointing to that they do exist, but calculations have been wrong in the past. I was just listing them as an example of things that could exist and we cannot currently detect.

originally posted by: WeAllDieSoon

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: randyvs

Unless the universe always existed and just changes state every so often. Then it was never created at all.

This has to be the funniest argument i have ever heard. "The universe always existed." Some people are just dead set on denying God to the point of hilarity.

Denying god? You apparently misread that statement. Nowhere does that statement deny god. It was just a thought to a possible reality we live in. Heck, God could STILL exist in this possible reality that I just described, but your blinders are on and just went straight to laughing it away.

Though I'd like to ask, if my statement is so laughable, why didn't you refute it? Instead you just give us this claim that it is a hilarious statement. More like it reads to me that your mind is so closed, that any outside the box thinking you are exposed to gets shutdown in your head with nervous laughter.

But hey, if we want to talk god, as an agnostic I look for evidence before I believe in something, so show me the evidence that your or any god exists. Why should I believe in your god over say Zeus? There is the same amount of evidence for both of them. None.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Itisnowagain

I'm listening to evidence that says that you are wrong, not scientists.

You are listening to knowledge from where exactly? I am trying to get you to look at what you actually experience. Do you experience time moving? or do you experience the scenery changing? Do you ever move or have you noticed that you never move but the present scenery is moving? Answer these questions for yourself - I don't mind if you don't but instead of listening to others point of view of time - check directly for yourself.

We know for a fact that people move through time at different speeds.

No - I do not know for a fact that people move through time at all. You believe it to be a fact but it is a strong belief that you have and most have - because they have not looked deep enough.

I've seen no evidence of your claims.

I cannot make you look at something you don't want to see.

All I've seen is your personal interpretation of the universe.

Here is a video which goes deep into the investigation of time. - will it be watched and heard though?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Another_Nut

Fair enough. You don't have to believe in dark energy or matter. They are HIGHLY theoretical concepts and we haven't proven if they exist or not. Though calculations are pointing to that they do exist, but calculations have been wrong in the past. I was just listing them as an example of things that could exist and we cannot currently detect.

It is amazing that you have such strong faith in science when science speaks about things it has never seen or experienced.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Itisnowagain

I'm listening to evidence that says that you are wrong, not scientists.

You are listening to knowledge from where exactly? I am trying to get you to look at what you actually experience. Do you experience time moving? or do you experience the scenery changing? Do you ever move or have you noticed that you never move but the present scenery is moving? Answer these questions for yourself - I don't mind if you don't but instead of listening to others point of view of time - check directly for yourself.

We know for a fact that people move through time at different speeds.

No - I do not know for a fact that people move through time at all. You believe it to be a fact but it is a strong belief that you have and most have - because they have not looked deep enough.

I've seen no evidence of your claims.

I cannot make you look at something you don't want to see.

All I've seen is your personal interpretation of the universe.

Here is a video which goes deep into the investigation of time. - will it be watched and heard though?

Sorry to butt in but you made me stop and think with that post.

I wanted to know if you could clarify more on the whole 'Time doesnt exsist' issue? (Sorry cannot watch the video from where I am)

As how I see it that everything 'ages' From material to people and that tends to be (for me at least) because of time.

I paused for a moment and looked out the window.... What I see is cars/trucks going at different speeds on a main road, people walking by sounds of the birds amongst trees. And I found my answer - You make a good point about the scenery changing but how I see it its not time that moves, we move through time. After all 'Time' is to me a definition of 'moments' or lack of for that matter that occur over one another. When I look back on my PC the time has changed by a few minutes. Yes I know thats a simple counting system, counting the numbers till the next and so forth. But if 'time' is just change of enviroment..... Why can't changes be reversed? Or repeated for instance? Thats how I see Time, it moves forward. It cannot be reversed.

I will never, ever in my life see the same exact pattern of cars/trucks and people/birds and sounds/feelings ever again that I just did a few moments ago. Thats what just happend with time for me at least.

originally posted by: Maltese5Rhino
I paused for a moment and looked out the window.... What I see is cars/trucks going at different speeds on a main road, people walking by sounds of the birds amongst trees. And I found my answer - You make a good point about the scenery changing but how I see it its not time that moves, we move through time.

You don't have to look out the window to see the scenery move - even the hands and the thoughts and the sensations are all part of the movement. But what is seeing the moving does not move - if you notice. You are in the centre of your experience -the seeing/knowing aspect never moves, it is not noticed because we only see movement. But the scenery is what is moving - you never move. The container or space in which the scenery is appearing and moving never moves. It could be called 'now', 'here', 'the present' - it is always the present and the present is never separate from you.

In fact you could see it as you are the now container that is always the same - but what is in it (the content) is never the same (the scenery is constantly changing/appearing different).
So the present has two seeming aspects - a still motionless present and a moving present - it produces the illusion of 'other times' - which in turn produces the illusion of 'someone living in time'.
There's no time and there is no one because there is only ever what is actually presently happening - THIS IS the present configuration.

The present always appears different - who can ever know why it does what it does or looks how it does - that is the wonder of being.

Time is what eternity looks like when viewed by the mind. Rupert Spira

originally posted by: WeAllDieSoon
a reply to: Puppylove

You: "I don't know the truth, but I know you don't know it because none of us can know it. But I know there is a truth. God abandoned us and left us unable to know it."

Me: "God did not abandon us. We can know the truth because of this fact. He wants us to seek the truth and seek Him."

The truth is a funny thing. It's something you hear or read. Either you will accept it when you hear it or you won't. If you won't - your mind will play a lot of tricks on you.

As for Hell, which is something you seem to have trouble reconciling, look at it like this. We choose between God and the world. Those who choose the world over God do a lot of stuff to the people who choose God over the world. When you look at the world we live in, what do you see?

There are people who will pretend to follow God while choosing this life and the world over God, form an army in Africa, give coc aine to children and traumatize them so they will kill without thinking - sometimes, for instance, after their mom was raped in front of them and then shot in front of them. Then, after a decade of killing for this warlord, that kid who is now a man is called out of the world by God's Son and dies for His truth.

What caused this situation in the world?

Have you ever been in a position that put you in so much pain that it *felt* like it would never end? Mentally, or physically, or both.

Never let anyone tell you God does not hate some people. Perfect justice will be done, whether the person committing evil every day believes it or not and no matter how far they decide to take things. God said that he hates those who love violence with a passion.

If God lets you know the Truth, and understand the Truth, and you choose the Truth over this fallen world - you will be forgiven for everything you have done. What is the Truth in this world? It is a Sword. Some are mistaken and think Jesus came to bring peace. He did not. He came to bring a Sword. A friend of the world is an enemy of God. Read a Gospel today, acquire the Sword, and you will be happy you made the choice. Seek the truth - God has not abandoned you.

But when you choose God
I mean REALLY CHOOSE God
First you hate yourself
Then
You die to yourself
You die to the world
You literally DIE to the world - your life is over already.
And you wouldn't trade it - for the world

How can you KNOW what you think you Know. What you have just stated has been going on for centuries and usually ends up with innocent people getting slaughtered.

I KNOW BETTER THAN YOU.

MY 'GOD' is this or my god does that, C"MON use the other mind evolution provided to you, you know the one that is capable of reasoning the reality in which you actually exist.