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Politics, Religion, and Culture: The Israeli-Palestinian Conflict in Context

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posted on Jul, 28 2014 @ 01:50 AM
It would be fair and legitimate - and even moral - to let Israel deal with Hamas as the government in the Gaza strip.

Can you blame them? Really? No. You can't. You make good and sound points that almost anyone who understands this situation can understand. Its being daily repeated by military and political analysts on CNN. If Israel defeats Hamas, how does that effect Sunni Islamists elsewhere? In Iraq and Syria, for example?

Obviously, Hamas' loss will not only embolden them - but super-charge their whacko conspiratorial and eschatological minds to find some deeper theological meaning in the act: a call to arms. A fortification of the need to fight for Islam in the middle east.

To understand this situation means understanding the mentality of the two parties. Islamists (and by implication, all political groups within Islamic societies) are essentially immoral brutes sucking from the teet of an 8th century mentality. And it shows by how unrefined - and dominating, chauvinistic - they are as a society.

On the other side are Israelis. Jews. And they're justifiably tired of everyone always hating them. They got the state - and even began the entire zionist enterprise - because of the ceaseless hatred and bigotry they lived amongst.

They fought, died, in what I consider to be a noble cause: to reclaim some sense of cultural "closure". I'm not saying that it was morally unequivocal, but given the time and the era they lived in, it seemed to be an inevitable result of Europes head start on the Islamic world. And the Arab worlds Jews, we must not forget, came to the country and helped found it.

So we can say certain things are "established facts". Israel is an established fact. Palestinians - to some extent - are an established fact. But they are a "fact" in a rather tenuous sense, culturally and religious, speaking (not to mention, linguistically). On the othe hand, you would no doubt argue that they are geopolitically massive fact. One that if not honored for "what it is' can blow up strong in our faces.

I respect that argument because its essentially true. If Israel called a one state solution tomorrow, how would the Arab world react? Given the reality of Islamism and the force it has - and continues to grow - within the minds of the disenfranchised, how would the collapse of the goal - and what it means to them - of "freeing the Palestinians' be taken? It'll be taken as a call to arms. Increased extremism. An increase in terror attacks in western cities. No doubt. The Palestinian-Israeli conflict takes on eschatological importance to Muslims.

Problem is, Israelis are too intelligent for themselves. On the one side, we have the normal, psychologically aware (and therefore more healthy) humanist civilization, and on the other, we have the Islamist worldview. To say that they were "different" would not do justice to the extreme disparity in centuries and ideas between the two.

The former is constantly learning and never presumes to know anything "absolutely', certainly not any particular book, which is challenged worldwide by other particular books. The latter thinks it knows all it needs to know and has absolutely no inkling at how perverted its values have become because of their particular metaphysical and theological doctrines.

So that leaves me with "what to do?". Since writing is oftentimes a process of discovery, I've just discovered that what Israel does could have mammoth consequences. However, I can't help but feel that Jews - and Israel - have gotten a mighty, and continuously unending, #ty deal from the universe. If I took a pro-Palestinian (and therefore Hamas) view, my "system-wide" logic might be justified, but phenomenologically, the linkup between Hamas and us feels wrong and morbid.

So frankly I do not know. Am I dealing with some dissociation? Maybe. I have a love-affair with Israel and the Jews (though not Jewish) that makes me want to "do the right thing", stand up for the good values that Israel is trying to embody. But yet, I know - and they would as well - that their existence is an issue for Islamists. And if were going to keep the Israeli state alive and well, It'll probably need a Palestinian state beside it.

So, deeper we go into the rabbit hole. How do we get the Islamists in Gaza to "cool down", and think rationally? How do we even bring Israel to the bargaining table when they believe - quite justifiably - that Hamas and the Palestinians are trying to hoodwink them into more and more concessions? Can the PA be trusted? Are they a humanist, and sincere organization? Or do they have a bad history of breaking agreements, stealing money, arming militants, carrying out terror attacks etc?

You can see quite clearly why both parties dislike one another. The Palestinians see - and refuse to "unsee" - Israel as an aggressor, from the moment Zionists/Jews came in and bought up land to the point that they declared a state and became the powerful player in the area. Jews/Israelis, conversely, are demoralized by the cultural morbidity of the Arab world, in general. They have not transitioned well from the caliphate into the modern era. They still are trying to find themselves - remake themselves, in a more reformed and humanistic way. But its being strongly challenged by a fundamentalist and conservative interpretation of Islam that basically sticks to the books: the same mentality that led from theology to empire.

I believe the internet is doing much - and has done much - in changing the middle east (see Egypt for an example). But it's highly disconcerting for those of us who dream of a better world to know that Islamists are doing what they're doing.

You say Islamism has no military solution. I think thats naive. Were not talking about a flimsy emotional stance. Were talking about a 1300 year old religious tradition that promoted a theology that serviced empire, i/e the existence of caliphates. These people SPEAK IN THE LANGUAGE OF WAR. And their cognitive dissonance is strengthened by their ceaseless and never ending exposure to theological material and a communal environment which ENFORCES in a positive feedback loop the same mentality.

So, in the end, Israel has a menacing daily reality to deal with: rocket attacks into their cities. They can ignore it and treat it - and its consequences on mental health, for example - as "normal". Or they can try to be normal human beings and chase after that thing we call "dignity", as in, it's completely unjustified and unreasonable to have to live with a neighbour to the south of you who wants to kill you.

That being the case. The Israelis will (and in my opinion, are justified) in dealing with the problem. And, I think, the end-goal would be Hamas' complete annihilation.

Eventually, the Arab world would get over-it.

posted on Jul, 28 2014 @ 02:07 AM
I have enjoyed reading your thoughtful and thorough post. Unfortunately, I'm not giving it the attention it deserves (it's after 2 a.m. here), besides I'm trying to hold my own on this thread, which you may care to visit and comment on.

posted on Jul, 28 2014 @ 03:08 AM
It is to the advantage of the Israelis Government, those who control to have the people they control in a continual state of fear and conflict, hence the term Terrorists, being used by the other western governments that don't have daily home made rockets landing in their territorial boarders. Borders which the Israeli Government disputes in regards to their neighbors.

In regards to others it is a hot spot, just like North Korea or Iran than can be manipulated to create distraction and denial. Very beneficial in the pursuit of more control by those not satisfied with what they already have....

posted on Jul, 28 2014 @ 03:12 AM
Great post, S&F for you.

Want something else to think about? If a large majority of the people in the Gaza strip are Sunni muslims then why aren't ISIS defending their brothers and sisters? Wouldn't you think a strict islamic group such as ISIS (or ISIL as the world has now accepted them) would take action, considering they're a group that just beheaded 50 Syrian soldiers yesterday and crucified 8 rival gang members last month....Not to mention all the other dark stuff they've done, imagine the stuff we haven't heard about, they just do whatever the f*ck they want and no one's stopping them, I wonder why..

I have been trying to make a pro-israeli argument but I just can't justify the sheer force they're using when they know there will be civilian deaths...estimated 250,000 children under 10. Yeah I understand the Jews had been shunned everywhere else when they needed a homeland, and had been granted this land from the UN, but surely Jews and Muslims lived there in peace before Israel existed? I'd say the Zionist government riled things up, but that's just from stuff I've read, on the internet, so who knows.

Plus the fact they have the iron dome, which intercepts a high percentage of the homemade unguided bottle rockets that Hamas are firing, not knowing if it'll hit building or just unpopulated land, you have sh*tty bottle rockets on 1 side and the other side has air strikes, tanks, an army...But you know, Hamas aren't angels - far from it.

Oh and by the way, taking a pro-palastinian view doesn't necessarily mean your taking sides or agreeing with Hamas...I don't think the children want any of this? Or any of the families of the 1000+ killed? It's also very sad that 42 Israeli civilians have been killed by hamas rocket fire, Overall I can't really see the situation getting peaceful anytime soon, I mean you've got one side that has felt oppressed for 60 years while Israel gained their land and the other that started as a refuge and is now a very very wealthy and powerful. I agree that Hamas shouldn't have fired rockets during the ceasefire..twice, but I disagree with how Israel have handled it..again.


posted on Jul, 28 2014 @ 04:02 AM
a reply to: Astrocyte

Israel is too small to fit multiple nationalities with different Ideologies and expect them to live side by side and happily ever after,specially European Zionists and Arabs/Palestinians...there will be no more of anything left to feed cloth house and energize the whole population 20-30 years from now...The transfer and evacuation of the Israelis seems inevitable unless of course they start to treat all the Palestinians exactly the same as their own people or they kill them all!...Very complex and unfortunate situation any which way you look at it...I have always thought considering the compassion and admiration that Americans hold for Israelis ,why not offer them a peace of land lets say in Main or Dakota to just end this age old conflict once and for all while enjoying their company,wealth and experties at the same time?.

posted on Jul, 28 2014 @ 04:36 AM
a reply to: shapur

It would not work. The Jews have returned to their homeland and Jerusulum is not in the United States.

Tired of Control Freaks

posted on Jul, 28 2014 @ 04:57 AM

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: shapur

It would not work. The Jews have returned to their homeland and Jerusulum is not in the United States.

Tired of Control Freaks
It might not work now but it would seem like a very reasonable offer in the fast approaching hard times ahead...The holy sites can still remain and be shared by all religions as it has been during the past centuries.

posted on Jul, 28 2014 @ 05:39 AM
I like your analysis, but I'd be careful how you characterize a whole group of people like that.

Waiting for that "no tolerance" hammer to drop down soon (looks up and holds hands over head).

posted on Jul, 31 2014 @ 12:55 PM
a reply to: Astrocyte

Very nicely done...

I cannot disagree with anything you have said.

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