U.S.: Satellite Imagery Shows Russians Shelling Eastern Ukraine

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: sosobad

Western evidence has been released through several media channels simultaneously - I have seen it all myself but don't use Twitter at all - it wasn't solely released on Twitter and the fact some keep trying to hammer home this point smacks to me of an attempt to smear it, badly I might add.

And it's all a bit hypocritical as the separatists have been using YouTube, Twitter and Facebook themselves.

The separatists aren't the world's superpower, Russian spokespeople aren't taking selfies with #freedonetsk, they are conducting their business with a bit more decorum than America. The fact of the matter is if they had hard evidence they would be presenting it to NATO and the UN, instead you have this shameful display of propaganda at work trying to get the zombies on the social media to give them approval in getting into a war with Russia.

a reply to: ozwest

Go travel. Stop believing what you are told. The rest of the world is similar. I recently spent time in China. They love their children. You have no moral compass.

And Americans don't love their children, in fact I am pretty sure most people on this planet love their children so how that proves anything is beyond me.

A moral compass argument...really?

And traveling makes you morally better than anyone else...how does that work?

a reply to: GargIndia

These images could be of any MBRL firing somewhere in the world?

Really, does anywhere in the world have a border that connects Ukraine and Russia?

originally posted by: GargIndia
a reply to: Xcathdra

1. Americans have provided arms and money to Kiev.
2. Americans have provided information for targeting rebel forces.
3. American spies are all over Ukraine.
4. Americans are waging a brutal and relentless economic war against Russia, who is primary benefactor of rebels.

All the above provide motive for USA to falsify information about nature and intent of MH17 tragedy.

LOL
Thank you for that.. I needed a good laugh to break up the monotony. So this is all that is left of the Russian argument? Randomly just start making things up, add in the US, and hope people are to weak willed and stupid to actually research the claims you just made.

Maybe you should have supplied links to the sources to support your accusations above?

a reply to: GargIndia

1. Americans have provided arms and money to Kiev.
2. Americans have provided information for targeting rebel forces.
3. American spies are all over Ukraine.
4. Americans are waging a brutal and relentless economic war against Russia, who is primary benefactor of rebels.

I think you are a bit confused, because...

1. the US has not sent arms to Ukraine...money yes.
2. and that is a problem how, because Russia is doing the same for the separatists.
3. Have any proof of that, because so far that has never been proven, but it has been shown Russia does.
4. Russia brought the sanctions on to themselves, so now you are admitting Russia is the biggest benefactor of the separatists and have a reason they want the separatists to succeed. About time you finally admitted Russia has a reason to back the rebels.

All the above provide motive for USA to falsify information about nature and intent of MH17 tragedy.

Really... where?

a reply to: Xcathdra

Thank you for that.. I needed a good laugh to break up the monotony.

No. 4 pretty much tells the story of the crisis in Ukraine.

a reply to: sosobad

Russian spokespeople aren't taking selfies with #freedonetsk, they are conducting their business with a bit more decorum than America.

Really...

Alexander Sotkin may have thought he was harmlessly posting selfies to his friends back home, but last night the 24-year-old Russian soldier was at the centre of international intrigue.
For the photographs he has posted on the web appear to offer evidence that Vladimir Putin’s forces have been operating inside Ukraine.
Geotagging – the process of adding a location to a photograph taken by a mobile phone camera – creates a trail that leads Sotkin, a sergeant in the signals corps, from a military base in southern Russia across the troublesome border to villages inside rebel-held parts of Ukraine.

www.dailymail.co.uk... e-used-MH17-accidentally-reveals-border.html

The fact of the matter is if they had hard evidence they would be presenting it to NATO and the UN, instead you have this shameful display of propaganda at work trying to get the zombies on the social media to give them approval in getting into a war with Russia.

Not like the Russians with their farce as to why they decided to invade Ukraine in the first place, and their excellent evidence of an SU 25 tailing the Malaysian plane that was shown to be a lie.

Russia hasn't had a problem throwing out the propaganda on a daily basis, but because it's Russia it is okay to lie to the world.

a reply to: sosobad

Why do you think they aren't giving this evidence to the UN (what's the point anyway - Russia is on the UNSC!) and NATO? They are, btw, several NATO meetings have been held already concerning precisely this.

As for your "decorum" comment, seems Vlad is quite keen on using Twitter to promote his own image anyway - He seems very keen to post all sorts of Photo op's with War Memorials, Local industry groups and Church leaders where possible.

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: sosobad

Why do you think they aren't giving this evidence to the UN (what's the point anyway - Russia is on the UNSC!) and NATO (they are, btw, several NATO meetings have been held already concerning precisely this.

As for your "decorum" comment, seems Vlad is quite keen on using Twitter to promote his own image anyway - He seems very keen to post all sorts of Photo op's with War Memorials, Local industyr groups and Church leaders where possible.

Yeah he has a Twitter account but he isn't trying to use it to push ww3. Posing with church leaders, at war memorials and industry groups is one thing, having your spokesperson pose with #unitedukraine like a cheerleader putting up a pic for her bff's and releasing "evidence" that international law is being broken is entirely another. Remember too that the NDAA legalized propaganda for use against us citizens in 2012, www.businessinsider.com... and this campaign of theirs reeks of it.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

I fail to see how he is a spokesperson for Russia... And where he is holding up a ##freedonetsk sign, can you point it out for me?

I suggest if you want to talk about the plane or Crimea you go to one of the numerous threads about them, so you think it's ok for America to lie?

a reply to: sosobad

No, he isn't and you know why? Because he has realised he has bitten off more than he can chew and is, behind the scenes, probably quite keen to drop all this if only he can save face. There is simply no way Russia can win any conflict without going nuclear - an economy the same size as Italy with a military of largely dilapidated 1980's hardware, versus the EU/US with an economy accounting for 46% of the World economy and the latest in military toys...

As for propaganda - I assume you as vociferous about Russia's?

And why do you think the West is pushing for WW3? What a total absurd thing to say - what possible benefit could there be from having a major ding-dong with Russia? There is a difference between standing up against a bully eager to bring back the "good old days" of the Soviet Empire and pushing for World War - and yes, Putin does want a return to those days, he stated as much back 2001 when he was made PM..

Feel free to look his speech up, but if you have difficulty, I can provide it to you if you want, but it is clear as day in that speech what he wanted and he even gives clues as to the problems we'd later see in Georgia and Ukraine. The warnings were there, but were ignored in the West who were very keen on having good relations with Russia and the ready supply of trade that brought.

The US had all this intel on WMD in Iraq and look how that worked out.

Whilst the USA protects those that are reponsible for 9-11 then how can anyone take a word said by Washington as having any truth at all in it.

All you get from faux news and Co is speculations from the studio but Russia Today sends out reporters on the ground even when many are being arrested in the Ukraine and deported back to Russia.

You tell me who has something to hide

a reply to: sosobad

I fail to see how he is a spokesperson for Russia... And where he is holding up a ##freedonetsk sign, can you point it out for me?

And I fail to see what your point is, because now people cannot post a selfie with their own personal feelings and beliefs?

I suggest if you want to talk about the plane or Crimea you go to one of the numerous threads about them, so you think it's ok for America to lie?

And what I posted as a reply is relevant to your post, sorry if it bothers you.

And do you really want to get into it about who is telling lies about Ukraine, because I will be happy to oblige you on those lies.

a reply to: VirusGuard

You tell me who has something to hide

Russia and their backing of an armed insurgency in Ukraine which took out a commercial airliner by mistake, which is why they removed evidence from the crash site.

Does that just about answer your question?

a reply to: stumason

No, he isn't and you know why? Because he has realised he has bitten off more than he can chew and is, behind the scenes, probably quite keen to drop all this if only he can save face. There is simply no way Russia can win any conflict without going nuclear

Now you are not making sense, if he has bitten off more than he chew why would he shell the Ukrainian boarder, you are advocating he is shelling the Ukraine and then say he realises he can't handle it and want to save face. Why by your reasoning would he shell? Makes no sense

And why do you think the West is pushing for WW3? What a total absurd thing to say - what possible benefit could there be from having a major ding-dong with Russia? There is a difference between standing up against a bully eager to bring back the "good old days" of the Soviet Empire and pushing for World War - and yes, Putin does want a return to those days, he stated as much back 2001 when he was made PM..

So it has nothing to do with the brics countries threatening the dollar? You seem to forget what happened to the last few countries that tried to move away from the dollar, the campaign of hate and vilification leading up to their demise? How are those countries doing nowadays? If you don't remember I can remind you

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: sosobad

I fail to see how he is a spokesperson for Russia... And where he is holding up a ##freedonetsk sign, can you point it out for me?

And I fail to see what your point is, because now people cannot post a selfie with their own personal feelings and beliefs?

I suggest if you want to talk about the plane or Crimea you go to one of the numerous threads about them, so you think it's ok for America to lie?

And what I posted as a reply is relevant to your post, sorry if it bothers you.


And do you really want to get into it about who is telling lies about Ukraine, because I will be happy to oblige you on those lies.

Oh they can but why is she doing it on a government run Twitter account?

So

A) He isn't a spokesperson for Russia and you where being disingenuous

and

B) Your response is about 2 entirely different subjects you tried to inject here because you don't have anything coherent to say on this subject.

Ok gotcha

originally posted by: sosobad
Now you are not making sense, if he has bitten off more than he chew why would he shell the Ukrainian boarder, you are advocating he is shelling the Ukraine and then say he realises he can't handle it and want to save face. Why by your reasoning would he shell? Makes no sense

I'm making perfect sense - he isn't some Emperor inside Russia, there are factions and he's become quite adept at playing them against each other.

The Oligarchs, arguable the source of the bulk of his power, are now becoming quite itchy as a result of those sanctions.

On the flip side, there are nationalist sentiments he has to keep happy too, simply pulling support for the rebels now would make him look weak. Interestingly, the tumbling value of the Ruble is actually making some of the oligarchs even richer, as most have their money in London or New York, so these sanctions are actually increasing their own power relative to those left inside Russia, causing power dynamics.

So, just taking those simple and obvious facts into consideration means that this whole crisis is a balancing act that is quickly going off kilter - yes, he may well be shelling the border today, or tomorrow, but for how long? If he backs off, he keeps the Oligarchs happy, but the nationalists not so much. If he carries on, the reverse is true. These sanctions have been very deliberately and specifically targeted to undermine Putin and his inner circle.

originally posted by: sosobad
So it has nothing to do with the brics countries threatening the dollar? You seem to forget what happened to the last few countries that tried to move away from the dollar, the campaign of hate and vilification leading up to their demise? How are those countries doing nowadays? If you don't remember I can remind you

Pfffft - there have been "threats to the dollar" for as long as I can remember - it's par for the course on ATS and I've been a member for 10 years. These BRICs countries are not some amazing set of wonder countries, all are what we Brit's would call sh1tholes for starters and Russia is the weakest of the lot, only really allowed a seat at the table by virtue of it's mineral wealth and huge stockpile of nukes, China has a massive debt bubble that has yet to burst, Brazil has social problems like you wouldn't believe and India, well, where do you start?

Before any of them think about taking on the status quo, they need to sort their own houses out first and that is not going to happen for a long time, if ever. You think the West is corrupt then you clearly haven't been to a BRICs...

EDIT: For comparison, even if the BRICs did "dump the dollar", all of their economies combined only account for 20% of the World economy as opposed to the EU + US being 46%....

"U.S.: Satellite Imagery"

Like much of what we see on our TVs from Americai we all know that most of it is made up by Hollywood.

Did it take them a month to come up with these images or were the graphic artists working on a go slow

Try fixing the 9-11 cover up before thinking anyone is going to listen to much of the state propaganda thats comeing out of the USA.

a reply to: sosobad

Oh they can but why is she doing it on a government run Twitter account?

Wrong that is on her personal account. Just because she uses the where she works as her tag it doesn't mean it is a government account.

In fact many use their work moniker with twitter as that is what they are known for. Good try though.

A) He isn't a spokesperson for Russia and you where being disingenuous

And I never said he was so how is that being disingenuous?

It is about using social media and selfies as a way to get a message out. Again good try.

B) Your response is about 2 entirely different subjects you tried to inject here because you don't have anything coherent to say on this subject.

And I had entirely two different replies to two of your posts that were relevant to your posts, so again good try.

a reply to: VirusGuard

Try fixing the 9-11 cover up before thinking anyone is going to listen to much of the state propaganda thats comeing out of the USA.

How is 9/11 even relevant to the crisis in Ukraine, and again do you really want to get into who is lying on the events in Ukraine?