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MH17 Black Box Data Shows Evidence Of Missile Strike

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posted on Jul, 27 2014 @ 05:11 PM
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originally posted by: MysterX
a reply to: stumason

Stu, Stu, Stu...you really ought to at least try to read the preceding posts i've written on this thread...you'll save yourself a lot of wasted time in the long run.

Already mentioned as i always have been in this thread..the weapon that could have taken out MH17 may have been 'unguided'...DUMB in other words.

The SU-25 carried a number of variants of unguided munitions.

Anyway...enough's enough for tonight i think.

Goodnight.


Er, I did, hence why I replied to your assertion about the unguided munitions - care to rebut that, or simply slip and slide to avoid the glaringly obvious?

I'll repeat - you're claiming an unguided rocket (designed for ground attack missions) from an Su-25 flying slower and lower than the 777 managed to score a hit over a distance of up to 3 km on a moving target?

As I said, grasping a little here...




posted on Jul, 27 2014 @ 05:14 PM
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a reply to: MysterX

There are still a ton of variables involved that would make it an almost impossible shot from an Su-25 at that range. You can dead reckon, and take all the other factors, and if you launched an entire salvo off at that range, you'd be lucky if one or two hit. And as small as most unguided munitions are that could do it, it would take a miracle to bring the plane down.



posted on Jul, 28 2014 @ 12:43 AM
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Havent the US already said they know where the SAM was fired from based on the trajectory? Meaning, they must have a picture with contrail on it (or radar, but satelite/drone footage sound more likely). Which would easily invalidate any SU-25 theories.

But of course, no one in the public will ever see such a pic I guess...



posted on Jul, 28 2014 @ 02:59 AM
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originally posted by: Hijinx
a reply to: DonVoigt

Why do you think there was a satellite in the area at the time, with the capability to see this event, let alone with it's optics pointed in the general direction or focused on the area of the event at that time ?

You do realize the entire surface of the world can not be watched at the same time, all the time.... It's impossible.... Even if they were using satellites to spy on the ukraine it's still impossible to watch all of the ukraine, all the time with the satellites that are currently in orbit.

I like your idea of supremacy though. Very big brother.


Obviously you don't realize how big Earth is when at the altitude of a spy satellite. Think about it, an iphone can track your very location and everything put into it such as txts and calls, plus monitor by gps. Imagine what the best technology can do from space. Just saying.



posted on Jul, 28 2014 @ 03:12 AM
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a reply to: SixX18

Obviously you don't realise how Earth observation satellites work, nor their optical systems. And what has it got to do with your phone? And why do people like you completely misunderstand how GPS works?

Rather than 'imagine what the best technology can do from space' it might help you if you grounded yourself in reality.



posted on Jul, 28 2014 @ 07:26 AM
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originally posted by: SixX18

originally posted by: Hijinx
a reply to: DonVoigt

Why do you think there was a satellite in the area at the time, with the capability to see this event, let alone with it's optics pointed in the general direction or focused on the area of the event at that time ?

You do realize the entire surface of the world can not be watched at the same time, all the time.... It's impossible.... Even if they were using satellites to spy on the ukraine it's still impossible to watch all of the ukraine, all the time with the satellites that are currently in orbit.

I like your idea of supremacy though. Very big brother.


Obviously you don't realize how big Earth is when at the altitude of a spy satellite. Think about it, an iphone can track your very location and everything put into it such as txts and calls, plus monitor by gps. Imagine what the best technology can do from space. Just saying.
So why couldn't the sat find MH370?



posted on Jul, 28 2014 @ 07:55 AM
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Just wanna throw something out here. What if the Ukrainians manipulated events to cause this. A simple analysis of motives, Ukraine has every thing to gain out of an international type disaster. Days before Ukrainian army brought their Buks close to the frontline in which one launcher got captured. The Ukrainian army deploying these so close for what reason? Days after reports of it being captured the Ukrainians rushed to say it was an inoperable museum piece and then claimed Russia supplied the Buk that was claimed to have shot down mh17. Atc recordings from Kiev were quickly confiscated. Russia released data of a Su 25 tailing close and underneath mh17 before it was shot down. Mh17 was diverted directly over the fighting. If I was an inexperienced operator of a buk me thinks the big plane was a bomber or army transport like a il76 or an26 being escorted by a fighter. From a rebel perspective after suffering white phosphorous bombing I would want to take that threat down. Buk also can be linked in a network with a radar acting as master giving feeds to the captured launcher as the slave. It is also hard to differentiate targets without experience on a buk display screen. From the perspective of the rebels if they shot it down it seems to be a genuine acciden, what would they hope to gain? From the Ukrainian perspective a great opportunity to get the world behind them by claiming it was a deliberate Russian action.



posted on Jul, 28 2014 @ 08:08 AM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: GuerillaSkill

Which is why we are using the experts analysis and not your or my opinion on the matter. Explosive decompression occurred from an exterior source. That is a fact based on the voice recorder, the flight data and what was seen on the ground (debris with shrapnel) and the pieces that showed the shrapnel damage. Which is not consistent with an air to air missile that the Russians stated was used.

Of course at the rate the rebels are destroying the crime scene...

** I really wish the mods would pay attention to green accounts and their join date and forums they participate in. **

Long time lurker aka green account here. Do you have a link to any of the voice recorder findings and would you be so kind to post a link to the source.



posted on Jul, 28 2014 @ 12:33 PM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04




If that happened it would be on the black box from the pilot's dialogue. The fact they did not talk about it means it didn't happen.


They wouldn't be talking about much at all if the cockpit took the brunt of the shrapnel and the pilots died instantly, since there's evidence of shrapnel damage to one of the cockpit windows and it's frame, this isn't unreasonable to imagine may have happened.

They presumably wouldn't have been aware of the SU-25 coming up from below to intercept them , * if that was what happened *, since it would have been around 10,000 feet lower than MH17 was at when it was hit or exploded, so the pilots wouldn't have been talking about the fighter on an intercept course either, if they didn't see it.

It's also worth noting that they haven't been reported as saying anything at all about a SAM heading towards them either..although as was pointed out, the investigators (still hiding in their hotel rooms and doing zero investigation by all accounts) are not releasing the voice data, even though it is pertinent to world politics and harmony or lack of to do so...so unless voice data has now been released and i didn't read about it yet, we don't know what if anything the pilots were saying up to and at the moment of the aircraft being downed.

So not really a 'fact' as you posted...it's only a fact that we don't yet know what, if anything, the pilots said.



posted on Jul, 28 2014 @ 12:38 PM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: MysterX

There are still a ton of variables involved that would make it an almost impossible shot from an Su-25 at that range. You can dead reckon, and take all the other factors, and if you launched an entire salvo off at that range, you'd be lucky if one or two hit. And as small as most unguided munitions are that could do it, it would take a miracle to bring the plane down.


As you say Zaphod, there are virtual miracles that happen in aviation incidents involving missiles and rockets...if an aircraft can be shot at and directly hit by two 40kg warheads and carry on flying more or less intact, as was told to me earlier, that kind of luck also works the other way around too.



posted on Jul, 28 2014 @ 12:39 PM
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originally posted by: MysterX
the investigators (still hiding in their hotel rooms and doing zero investigation by all accounts) are not releasing the voice data, even though it is pertinent to world politics and harmony or lack of to do so...so unless voice data has now been released and i didn't read about it yet, we don't know what if anything the pilots were saying up to and at the moment of the aircraft being downed.


Right, because it's better for them to be out in the war zone, risking being shot at by the rebels, who refuse to allow them access to the scene.

The CVR is not released until they have completed analyzing it, which they're still doing. Many times it isn't released until a couple of weeks after decoding and analysis.



posted on Jul, 28 2014 @ 12:55 PM
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originally posted by: merka
Havent the US already said they know where the SAM was fired from based on the trajectory? Meaning, they must have a picture with contrail on it (or radar, but satelite/drone footage sound more likely). Which would easily invalidate any SU-25 theories.

But of course, no one in the public will ever see such a pic I guess...


Considering it's a war zone, there are certainly going to be a lot of Birds looking intently at this part of the world.

The US claimed it had evidence that Russia brought MH17 down, and directly accused them of doing so, but refused to release the evidence citing 'compromising operatives' or some such twaddle...(given the magnitude of this one would have thought those particular assets would have been removed and brought to DC pretty quick smart to spill their guts...if they actually existed, but nevertheless..) but the US later retracted the accusation.

They're now blaming those patriots fighting the rebel government in Kiev, presumably they have more evidence, obviously different evidence from the stuff they blamed Russia with, but in any event they are again are not releasing it.

Plenty of accusations and not a lot of evidence being released by the US and so far, zero proof of anything in fact, except a crashed 777 and a couple of photos, since the investigators refuse to leave their bolt holes and go and investigate.

It is interesting to note Russia seems to be taking the initiative on this case, and the US and Kiev seem oddly reluctant to do much of anything except make snappy TV sound-bites and issue accusations in all directions.

The US, Russia and plenty of countries in Europe at the least saw exactly what went on here i suspect, given all these parties have a vested interest in what is going on in this part of the world...it's interesting that so little of what must be multiple satellite data has been released, and that so far, has only been from Russia.

Could it be, shock-horror, that the US and Co, or Kiev don't particularly want the world to see what actually happened?

I wonder why that could be...



posted on Jul, 28 2014 @ 12:58 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58




Right, because it's better for them to be out in the war zone, risking being shot at by the rebels, who refuse to allow them access to the scene. The CVR is not released until they have completed analyzing it, which they're still doing. Many times it isn't released until a couple of weeks after decoding and analysis.


I think you know as well as i do that their safety has been guaranteed.

How do you think the hoards of international reporters picking all over the crash site are still alive if it is so intolerably dangerous for foreigners to be there right now?

Take a UN platoon with them if they really feel that way, but get the hell out there!



posted on Jul, 28 2014 @ 01:01 PM
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a reply to: MysterX

Really? Was that before or after the rebels decided they were sick of allowing them access? Because the last I heard, they were refused access to the site after a few days, and at one point were told they had one week left to finish before being kicked out of the area.

When did the UN get troops? And what makes you think they wouldn't be shot at too?
edit on 7/28/2014 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 28 2014 @ 01:12 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58




Really? Was that before or after the rebels decided they were sick of allowing them access? Because the last I heard, they were refused access to the site after a few days, and at one point were told they had one week left to finish before being kicked out of the area.


Good example of what they deal with start at 3:43...



No fear of being shot at all.



posted on Jul, 28 2014 @ 01:20 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58




When did the UN get troops? And what makes you think they wouldn't be shot at too?


If UN troops were to step foot in Ukraine I guarantee Putin would not hesitate to send troops in, as he thinks everyone is out to get Russia.



posted on Jul, 28 2014 @ 01:20 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

UN has troops drawn from international member states.

Ever heard of UN peace keepers? They have White APC's and tanks and pretty little blue helmets and everything!


As for access to the site, international reporter HAVE been swarming all over that crash site, completely without harm or incident and left unmolested with their video, stories and photos..if they can do it safely...



posted on Jul, 28 2014 @ 01:28 PM
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a reply to: MysterX

And they have to be assigned to the UN by member nations. Do you really think that member nations are going to give up troops for this situation right now, and risk making things worse? Even if they do send peacekeepers, that's probably a week minimum to get them to the UN, equipped, and into the area. That means almost three weeks minimum with almost no investigators on scene, rebels removing wreckage, and the scene being contaminated beyond hope for an investigation.



posted on Jul, 28 2014 @ 01:38 PM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

Ok, then for the sake of political sensibilities, even at the expense of the truth of the matter in such a politically dangerous event, the sensible option would be for the Dutch investigators to formally request Putin help them out.

Putin has already repeatedly expressed a desire for the investigators to expedite things and get on with a thorough inspection and investigation, so it would make sense that he would be more than happy to intercede and help to arrange assured safety for them and their teams, and might even, if acceptable to other parties, allow a relatively small contingent of Russian troops to act as escorts and negotiators.

But, that will probably be rejected by the Dutch un-investigation team too.

By the way, when i said UN peace keepers, i wasn't talking about an invasion force...a Chinook or two max was where my thoughts were heading.


edit on 28-7-2014 by MysterX because: added text

edit on 28-7-2014 by MysterX because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 28 2014 @ 01:41 PM
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a reply to: MysterX

So now, because they don't want to risk being shot, bombed, or hit by artillery they're "un-investigators" huh?

Yes, let's invite Putin in to the region. I'm sure he'll be happy to have troops in the region to secure the scene for the investigation.
edit on 7/28/2014 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)




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