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MH17 Black Box Data Shows Evidence Of Missile Strike

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posted on Jul, 27 2014 @ 05:45 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra




Explosive decompression occurred from an exterior source. That is a fact based on the voice recorder, the flight data and what was seen on the ground (debris with shrapnel) and the pieces that showed the shrapnel damage.


Backtracking are we?

Voice recorders weren't even mentioned in the article, the flight data does not show what caused the explosive decompression and what was seen on the ground does not aplly to the black box, which you and this article were making statements about.

Again, the black box did not show the explosive decompression was caused by a missile because it has no physical means to be aware of such informaton.

And you know it




posted on Jul, 27 2014 @ 05:45 AM
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RT - Ukrainian Su-25 fighter detected in close approach to MH17 before crash - Moscow


The Russian military detected a Ukrainian SU-25 fighter jet gaining height towards the MH17 Boeing on the day of the catastrophe. Kiev must explain why the military jet was tracking the passenger airplane, the Russian Defense Ministry said.

“A Ukraine Air Force military jet was detected gaining height, it’s distance from the Malaysian Boeing was 3 to 5km,” said the head of the Main Operations Directorate of the HQ of Russia’s military forces, Lieutenant-General Andrey Kartopolov speaking at a media conference in Moscow on Monday.

“[We] would like to get an explanation as to why the military jet was flying along a civil aviation corridor at almost the same time and at the same level as a passenger plane,” he stated.

“The SU-25 fighter jet can gain an altitude of 10km, according to its specification,” he added. “It’s equipped with air-to-air R-60 missiles that can hit a target at a distance up to 12km, up to 5km for sure.”

The presence of the Ukrainian military jet can be confirmed by video shots made by the Rostov monitoring center, Kartopolov stated.

At the moment of the MH17 crash an American satellite was flying over the area of eastern Ukraine, according to Russia’s Defense Ministry. It urged the US to publish the space photos and data captured by it.

edit on 27-7-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)


So the Russians are what, giving a briefing on the ability of an aircraft designed and put into use in the 1970's?

edit on 27-7-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 27 2014 @ 05:48 AM
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a reply to: GuerillaSkill

You apparently failed to read the 2 articles in the OP.

I suggest you do read them so you are up to speed with what we are talking about.



posted on Jul, 27 2014 @ 05:50 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra




** I really wish the mods would pay attention to green accounts and their join date and forums they participate in. **


And why is that? Are these people making life hard for you or something?

Are people with new accounts not allowed to speak, not worthy?

Attack the post, not the poster. Right?

What do you expect mods to do? Ban every new member that signs up?

What are you suggesting?

Almost sounds like you are yelling "help me, help me!"

This is great.
edit on 27-7-2014 by GuerillaSkill because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 27 2014 @ 05:51 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Yes, if you look it's a lot of implications, without any supporting evidence, implying maybe the Ukraine sent a fighter to shoot it down, but they never explicitly stated it. Because they knew from the start it was the Ukraine rebels and not a jet. They just wanted to deflect blame as long as possible and muddy the waters.



posted on Jul, 27 2014 @ 05:52 AM
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originally posted by: GuerillaSkill
Attack the post, not the poster. Right?


And what happens when the post is destroyed and shown to be without merit, but the poster just keeps going?

That's his point, that's what is happening. Non stop logical fallacies from the pro-Russia and anti-USA crowd.



posted on Jul, 27 2014 @ 05:53 AM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

Yes, if you look it's a lot of implications, without any supporting evidence, implying maybe the Ukraine sent a fighter to shoot it down, but they never explicitly stated it. Because they knew from the start it was the Ukraine rebels and not a jet.


Its been their mantra since they started this mess.



originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
They just wanted to deflect blame as long as possible and muddy the waters.

Russia or posters in the forums?



posted on Jul, 27 2014 @ 05:54 AM
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originally posted by: GuerillaSkill
Attack the post, not the poster. Right?


Thank you very much for proving my point about accounts.



posted on Jul, 27 2014 @ 05:57 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra




You apparently failed to read the 2 articles in the OP.


I have read both and nothing about voice recordings. Please qoute the part about voice recordings I must've missed.

Other point still stands too, black boxes can't prove it was a missile.

edit on 27-7-2014 by GuerillaSkill because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 27 2014 @ 06:01 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra




“[We] would like to get an explanation as to why the military jet was flying along a civil aviation corridor at almost the same time and at the same level as a passenger plane,” he stated. “The SU-25 fighter jet can gain an altitude of 10km, according to its specification,” he added. “It’s equipped with air-to-air R-60 missiles that can hit a target at a distance up to 12km, up to 5km for sure.”


You are absolutely right they did mention it.

I apologize.



posted on Jul, 27 2014 @ 06:07 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

What is the max altitude a Su-25 has been documented to fly at according to you?



posted on Jul, 27 2014 @ 06:09 AM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

Yes, if you look it's a lot of implications, without any supporting evidence, implying maybe the Ukraine sent a fighter to shoot it down, but they never explicitly stated it. Because they knew from the start it was the Ukraine rebels and not a jet.


Its been their mantra since they started this mess.



originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
They just wanted to deflect blame as long as possible and muddy the waters.

Russia or posters in the forums?

Russia, posters on this forum are not trying to muddy the waters they are just flat out lying and spewing anti-West hate filled rhetoric with no facts to back it up. They don't need facts though, they have feelings and opinions, the kind of stuff that shrugs off actual factual posts.



posted on Jul, 27 2014 @ 06:11 AM
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originally posted by: GuerillaSkill
a reply to: Xcathdra

What is the max altitude a Su-25 has been documented to fly at according to you?


Maybe you can tell us, WITH weapons, the limit the Russians gave is the technical max without weapons. Then you can look up what missile the Russians said could have been used, and see why the missile in question could never cause that sort of damage.

Us telling you will do nothing, look it up as that is the only way you will believe the truth.



posted on Jul, 27 2014 @ 06:14 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

I wasn't attacking you I was just stating reality about the situation. Sorry if I sounded like I was attacking.



posted on Jul, 27 2014 @ 06:15 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra




If the plane were brought down by an air to air missile the damage we see would be a lot different. You would have impact instead of shrapnel damage. The damage from the missile would have been isolated to the area of impact / proximity of exploding.


Impact needn't have occurred. An explosion nearby or within the aircraft would show the same decompression data and shrapnel damage.

Passenger jets are comparatively flimsy machines. They have to be, to make them commercial.

It takes very little in terms of explosive force, at that 33,000 ft altitude and speed, to create a catastrophe and complete airframe disintegration. The decompression and damage we see and the data on the recorder would tally very well with an AAM fired but exploded nearby the aircraft instead of a direct impact. As i say, this would also be the case with a bomb onboard the plane..

As for the pilots talking about all of this going on...this is split second stuff. The SU-25 has a ceiling of around 22,000 - 25,000 ft cruising. MH17 was cruising at 33,000ft, around 10,000 ft or about 3km higher than the SU-25 ceiling.

A dumb, unguided blast/ fragmentation warhead travelling at a median speed of MACH 3 (mach 2.5 - mach 4.5) is moving at roughly 3,600kmph, or put another way 1kmps.

This means MH17 pilots would not have had long enough to chat about what was going on, given that once their radar had indicated the missile, they would have had a maximum of 3 seconds to realise what they were seeing, get over the disbelief that a missile was heading towards them at around 2250 mph, and then react to the threat of imminent death.

They had 3 seconds for all of this assuming the Ukrainian Air force's SU-25 was at it's maximum cruising altitude when a missile was launched towards MH17.

Barely enough time to make seemingly instinctive sharp and unexpected turn, let alone have discussions about what was happening.

It's entirely possible that MH17 was brought down by any number of methods, from an explosive device already onboard the aircraft or from an AAM from the other aircraft seen on radar in the vicinity of MH17, or indeed any one of the BUK SAM units on the ground of which there are many in that area, most belonging to the Ukrainian Army.



posted on Jul, 27 2014 @ 06:16 AM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: GuerillaSkill
Attack the post, not the poster. Right?


Thank you very much for proving my point about accounts.


I don't know what point you think I proved but I just want to share that I haven't been able to get on the internet for 2 days because there was a little problem with my internet provider.

Yeah, apparently the distribution hub of my provider in my area kinda had a big fire burn it down causing the loss of internet in the whole area for people of that provider.

Very inconvenient.



posted on Jul, 27 2014 @ 06:21 AM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04




Maybe you can tell us,



Again, who is "us"?

I asked Cthadra.

Are you one and the same?



posted on Jul, 27 2014 @ 06:29 AM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04




They never stated an A2A missile was used... they said a lot of maybe, could have, possibly, no substance to their claims because they know they will not pan out in the end and they just wanted a temporary diversion.


Given that there are a number of different scenarios and causation factors, i don't doubt there is a lot of 'maybe, possibly, could have, might have been' going back and forth.

That's is the language people use when they simply don't know what happened and are speculating on possibilities.

Perfectly normal and natural terminology to use when the facts are not certain, although you seem to count this ordinarily acceptable doubt as a negative, it is common sense not to speak in absolute certainties when the situation is full of anything but certainty.



posted on Jul, 27 2014 @ 06:30 AM
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originally posted by: GuerillaSkill
I apologize.


I apologize as well..

Thank you...

Now, can we try to start off on the right foot and try to remain cordial / civil to each other. I admit this is a hot topic on both sides of the spectrum. You and I going at it doesnt help the discussion / debate on the topic.



posted on Jul, 27 2014 @ 06:31 AM
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originally posted by: GuerillaSkill
a reply to: Xcathdra

What is the max altitude a Su-25 has been documented to fly at according to you?



It depends on the variant.

The problem with what Russia claimed is Ukraine retired their entire fleet of SU-25's. Russia did as well but mothballed them.



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