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MH17 Black Box Data Shows Evidence Of Missile Strike

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posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 02:47 AM
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a reply to: GargIndia

If the investigation done by the west conludes that :

A - The plane was brought down by a missile launched by Ukraine forces would you accept the results?

or

B - The plane was brought down by Pro Russian rebels / Russia would you accept the results?

If yes on #1 and not on #2 - why?




posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 03:16 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

The circumstantial evidence is overwhelming against Kiev. They are fighting a civil war and have a substantial amount of heavy weaponry deployed in the area of the crash. This was an active war zone. Despite that Ukraine directed that plane into that specific area. The question is why?

I am not ready to buy the argument that a plane magically becomes safe if flying above 33000 ft.

I have no idea what happens to the inquiry. We shall see when it comes out with a report. However the proclamation of Western leaders and their actions speak loudly about their intentions.

I go by actions rather than words.



posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 07:12 AM
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a reply to: GargIndia

So the Ukraine was controlling the flight all the way from Amsterdam.



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 03:43 AM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: AnarchistoOfTheNorth

The system in question has no IFF or discrimination system that can tell a commercial plane from a military plane. So if they were expecting a military plane (there was an AN-26 that was supposed to have been in the area), and detected MH17, there was no way to tell other than the altitude of the contact. But with this type of radar, that would require training and practice, something that the rebels wouldn't have much of. So it would actually be pretty easy for this to have been nothing but a tragic accident.


And yet you have no proof to confirm this, nor any kind of evidence to assert that the separatists would be more likely of using a Buk to down the plane than conscripts in the Ukrainian Army.



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 04:39 AM
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originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Vovin




Yup, Americans spewing the same lies.


What lies, Putin admitted himself he sent troops into Crimea?

Are we going to keep having to go into this in every thread on Ukraine?

www.businessinsider.com...

www.huffingtonpost.com...

news.nationalpost.com... donetsk/

www.stuff.co.nz...

www.deccanchronicle.com...

And he admits it on your favorite source from Russia...



I just proved your whole post as being wrong so how can you say no invasion happened when Putin says he did send troops to Crimea and not deployed troops already in Crimea.

Big difference.


Again, it proves nothing except that you'll desperately grab at any minor source you can to further your narrative, even if it's just a couple words out of Putin's mouth.

What if Putin made a statement where he conquered the moon, would that be true?

Where is the tactical evidence of a Russian invasion? You got nothing, just minor details that dance around the prospect of a much larger, obvious story that just isn't there... Which kinda fumbles the whole argument.

I could rant about 9/11 being an inside job based on a few minor details and some words said by reporters and government officials, but the big thing just isn't there.

People like you ranting about Russia invading Ukraine, really only looks like people ranting about 9/11 conspiracies. That's why it's hard to take you seriously, because you are in a very small minority opinion with little means of making any sense because your narrative is loaded with some huge holes right from the beginning.

Your whole slant on the Ukraine issue is based off your claim that Russia invaded Ukraine. But Russia never invaded Ukraine. There's no open evidence that is capable of being viewed as a historical fact to make this claim. In other words, your claim is a discourse. This discourse is a fabrication to make you think this way by certain players in this game.

To start with, why has Canada and the USA been sanctioning Russia? There's been three rounds of sanctions now, if I recall correctly. Some people simply believe that these governments wouldn't sanction such a major country as Russia without good reason, so they accept the spoonfed discourse about evil Russia invading Ukraine and shooting down airliners... Without any evidence or conception of the bigger plan.

Now I ask you, why would the Canadian and American government accuse Russia of downing this airliner, sanction Russia for it, then backtrack on blaming Russia while holding the sanctions in place? Because placing sanctions on Russia is a goal of Canadian and American foreign policy right now.

The downing of the airliner was a convenient incident that the CAN and USA governments used to sanction Russia for. Just like when Russia apparently invaded Ukraine. No real evidence was ever presented, although it was claimed before the sanctions were pushed through.

Remember, 30,000 Russian troops were on Ukraine's border and were going to invade, right? This was after Crimea succeeded to Russia. NATO was claiming that Russia had all this manpower ready to invade, then sanctions, then NATO released their intel showing pictures of a military exercise that was only on for a week as the "invasion force".

Remember all the hysterical anti-Russian types on ATS crying about how Russian military medical tents established near the border meant imminent invasion? Where was the invasion? Instead, these medical camps ended up helping tens of thousands of refugees fleeing Ukraine. As expected.

So prove this huge hole in your narrative of Russia invading Ukraine, because all I've seen from you and others like you is a trend of "oh they're going to invade!" and "invasion is imminent!" to "well they invaded way back before all that".

There was no invasion.



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 05:04 AM
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a reply to: Vovin

Wow... Apparently D'nile just aint a river in Egypt.

his words were not taken out of context and you know better.

He constantly claimed there were no Russian troops in Crimea and that he had no idea who the no insignia troops were. During an interview via RT he admitted the troops were Russian.

Contrary to your spin, the acknowledgment was in fact huge. It set the stage for whats going on today and demonstrates Russian involvement in Ukraine to the present.

This is one of those reasons why no one is trusting Putin.



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 05:14 AM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Vovin

Wow... Apparently D'nile just aint a river in Egypt.

his words were not taken out of context and you know better.

He constantly claimed there were no Russian troops in Crimea and that he had no idea who the no insignia troops were. During an interview via RT he admitted the troops were Russian.

Contrary to your spin, the acknowledgment was in fact huge. It set the stage for whats going on today and demonstrates Russian involvement in Ukraine to the present.

This is one of those reasons why no one is trusting Putin.


And back in the real word, facts are backed up by evidence.

A sentence out of Putin's mouth doesn't prove the tactical deployment and use of 30,000 Russian soldiers like you claim.

And if it was invasion, then where's the dead Russian soldiers? Funny how 30,000 Russian soldiers could apparently march into Crimea only to result in democratic elections without casualties or many barriers, and still be called an invasion. Almost as if that was the will of the Crimean people.

But hey, maybe I should trust your judgement on what an invasion is, being that you're American and all I'm sure you know more about invading other countries than anybody else here.



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 05:20 AM
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originally posted by: Vovin
And back in the real word, facts are backed up by evidence.

A sentence out of Putin's mouth doesn't prove the tactical deployment and use of 30,000 Russian soldiers like you claim.


Actually it does prove it. So much so that Putin is telling you that you are wrong. I have never met a person who is in such denial to the extent you are trying to dismiss what Putin stated.



originally posted by: Vovin
And if it was invasion, then where's the dead Russian soldiers? Funny how 30,000 Russian soldiers could apparently march into Crimea only to result in democratic elections without casualties or many barriers, and still be called an invasion. Almost as if that was the will of the Crimean people.

There are currently 20k +/- Russian troops occupying Crimea right now. That is an invasion chuckles. There were no democratic elections held in Crimea, and Russia's own Presidential council confirmed that when they released the actual numbers. The elections in Crimea not only violated Ukraines Constitution, it violated Crimeas as well.




originally posted by: Vovin
But hey, maybe I should trust your judgement on what an invasion is, being that you're American and all I'm sure you know more about invading other countries than anybody else here.


And even when you see the invasions you still cant see that Russia did the same thing to Ukraine.

Russia invaded Ukraine.. Even the treaty stated they invaded Ukraine. ignoring it because it does not support your position does not invalidate the facts supporting the Russian invasion charge.



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 05:33 AM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Vovin
And back in the real word, facts are backed up by evidence.

A sentence out of Putin's mouth doesn't prove the tactical deployment and use of 30,000 Russian soldiers like you claim.


Actually it does prove it. So much so that Putin is telling you that you are wrong. I have never met a person who is in such denial to the extent you are trying to dismiss what Putin stated.



originally posted by: Vovin
And if it was invasion, then where's the dead Russian soldiers? Funny how 30,000 Russian soldiers could apparently march into Crimea only to result in democratic elections without casualties or many barriers, and still be called an invasion. Almost as if that was the will of the Crimean people.

There are currently 20k +/- Russian troops occupying Crimea right now. That is an invasion chuckles. There were no democratic elections held in Crimea, and Russia's own Presidential council confirmed that when they released the actual numbers. The elections in Crimea not only violated Ukraines Constitution, it violated Crimeas as well.




originally posted by: Vovin
But hey, maybe I should trust your judgement on what an invasion is, being that you're American and all I'm sure you know more about invading other countries than anybody else here.


And even when you see the invasions you still cant see that Russia did the same thing to Ukraine.

Russia invaded Ukraine.. Even the treaty stated they invaded Ukraine. ignoring it because it does not support your position does not invalidate the facts supporting the Russian invasion charge.


There is no invasion, as backed up by your desperate attempts to stipulate facts.

Oh wow, plus or minus 20,000 Russian soldiers are in Crimea now, which is territory of the Russian Federation. What a completely irrelevant statement.



posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 05:52 AM
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a reply to: MysterX

If only this sort of reality could be realised by all instead of the propaganda accusations.

The fact that such propaganda is so blatant is beyond comprehension.

And that some, despite being aware of the reality, seem to be ignoring it, is yet another example of the ignorance of humanity and how the global MSM machine could say just about anything and some wouldn't even question it.



posted on Aug, 8 2014 @ 08:56 AM
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a reply to: theabsolutetruth

I don't think all the people are so naive. The fact is that many people disbelieve their governments and mass media in all western countries.

Any rational person cannot excuse a government for irrational expenditure. Most western governments are massively indebted. There is no logic to why it is so.

Russia Today is not the issue. All news outlets carry the view of their masters. There is bias in every single news channel out there.



posted on Aug, 8 2014 @ 09:02 AM
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a reply to: GargIndia

The Americans are spending way beyond their means on military, and have been doing so for last half century.

Now the government debt (US federal, state and city) is at a level that it cannot be services realistically.

So USA needs to print money to service debt, which requires pushing US dollar down foreigner's throats.

In the mix is the complex country China, which still thinks of using Uncle Sam to climb to superpower status.

However Chinese are getting smarter off late. They have educated a lot of their sons and daughters in America and now have wiser people at the helm. The Chinese have started to understand the NWO game a lot better.



posted on Aug, 8 2014 @ 09:02 AM
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a reply to: GargIndia

Perhaps you misread that post.

I said this:


And that some, despite being aware of the reality, seem to be ignoring it


It was also a response to another post, it wasn't directed at the thread's opening post, so it wasn't about RT, it was about MSM propaganda, such as that seen here on ATS, the sort that blamed Russia as soon as MH17 hit the news, without any proof at all and how so many bought it hook, line and sinker without questioning it.



posted on Aug, 9 2014 @ 06:12 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 


(post by GargIndia removed for a manners violation)

posted on Aug, 10 2014 @ 04:41 AM
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Ok the black box has been in the uk for some time now,if there was any evidence linking the downed craft and Russia it would be sent to the media

And no,Russia hasn't invaded the Ukraine and if they did if NATO didn't help it would be quick conflict like Georgia -and in Georgia they only went in as the western leaning crazy leader ordered his troops to shell Russians in the country

Over the last 14 years what is the body count of wars conducted by the western allies and Russia and it's allies?



posted on Aug, 10 2014 @ 05:06 AM
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originally posted by: Whereismypassword
Ok the black box has been in the uk for some time now,if there was any evidence linking the downed craft and Russia it would be sent to the media

And no,Russia hasn't invaded the Ukraine and if they did if NATO didn't help it would be quick conflict like Georgia -and in Georgia they only went in as the western leaning crazy leader ordered his troops to shell Russians in the country

Over the last 14 years what is the body count of wars conducted by the western allies and Russia and it's allies?

Possibly.

The team doing the investigation was very upset at the last leak though. Normally nothing is said until they complete their investigation.






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