MH17 Black Box Data Shows Evidence Of Missile Strike

a reply to: stumason

The "vote" took place after 30,000 Russian troops poured out of Sevastopol (in breach of their treaty with the Ukraine). I'd love to see you adequately explain what you think it was those soldiers were doing if not invading a Sovereign country?

They were just enjoying the local culture.

Well so far as i know the people fighting in the east of the Ukraine to keep the nazi's out did not have PUK missiles and had no reason to shoot the jet down but i do know the ukraine military had these weapons and also the means to divert flights away from the area if they thought those people they called terrorists had these types of weapons.

Building seven did not just fall down and flight mh17 did not lower its hight without orders from Kiev and the spin doctors can spin that one as much as they like.

If the Ukraine has nothing to hide then how come they are arresting reporters from Russia Today and letting reporters in from the USA.

I don't trust Russia more than i have to but i trust them a lot more than i'll ever trust the USA whilst it remanins under the control of zionist bankers from is-so-hell

a reply to: VirusGuard

Except the rebels admitted to having at last one launcher.

The flight never descended. It was at 33,000 feet the entire time.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: VirusGuard

Except the rebels admitted to having at last one launcher.

The flight never descended. It was at 33,000 feet the entire time.

Yeah, one launcher, while Ukrainian Army had several deployed along with radar...

a reply to: Vovin

And the launcher is designed to work either as part of a system or independently.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: stumason

The "vote" took place after 30,000 Russian troops poured out of Sevastopol (in breach of their treaty with the Ukraine). I'd love to see you adequately explain what you think it was those soldiers were doing if not invading a Sovereign country?

They were just enjoying the local culture.

The soldiers are deployed for security. It happens in every country.

India deploys its soldiers in every election. There is nothing weird about that.

The deployment of soldiers does not invalidate the vote.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Vovin

And the launcher is designed to work either as part of a system or independently.

I does not matter. There is absolutely no reason that flight should have been in that area.

You are beating your chests about the fact that rebels have a missile system. Why should they not? They have every right to acquire the best weapons possible to protect from murderous Kiev regime.

No Kiev military plane should return to base.

a reply to: Vovin

And none of them were in range of MH17. Look at it like this, Russia has shown that Ukraine had BUKs deployed. Yet, they have not claimed that any of those BUKs fired. If the Ukranians did this why haven't Russia made that claim?

a reply to: GargIndia

So now its your position the rebels had the system and are entitled to it.

Your explanations / justifications are just as sporadic as Russian excuses on the topic.

I would imagine i the Russians / Rebels held a press conference admitting responsibility for this you would somehow try and argue the admissions were made up by the CIA.

The rebels already stated the had the BUK system.
The rebels already stated they shot down Ukrainian aircraft in the area, prior to and after the MH17 shoot down.
The rebels already claimed responsibility for the shoot down of MH 17 via social media.
Russian soldiers have been caught posting pictures on social networking sites acknowledging their presence inside East Ukraine.
Rebels destroyed the crime scene, tampered with evidence and removed evidence.

What more are you wanting?

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Vovin

And the launcher is designed to work either as part of a system or independently.

So why ignore that the Ukrainian Army had several launchers and a radar complex established at the place and time? Wouldn't that make them look much more culpable of a Buk was used?

a reply to: Vovin

Not necessarily no. It makes a lot more sense that this was a tragic accident by the rebels, than the Ukrainian military did it to set them up considering that absolutely nothing has happened as a result.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: Vovin

And none of them were in range of MH17. Look at it like this, Russia has shown that Ukraine had BUKs deployed. Yet, they have not claimed that any of those BUKs fired. If the Ukranians did this why haven't Russia made that claim?

Because evidence is crucial. Russia uses real intel in proposing evidence to the world stage, the USA and Ukraine uses fabrications posted on social media. Russia's standards of factual reporting for policy initiatives is far higher than what we in the west are used to seeing.

Beyond that there's many reasons why the evidence has not been shown. Maybe because it hasn't been collected. Surveillance technology is not omnipotent. There are satellite and ground pictures of Buk systems deployed around Donetsk at the time. But without a camera fixated on the specific Buk launcher capturing video then it's kinda hard to prove anything.

Funny how western media screams that the separatists did it with their Buk but where is the definitive evidence of that? There is none. Just sensationalist reporting of fabricated communications between the rebels talking about shooting down planes. Most westerners don't even know that the rebels have been picking off a lot of planes. They just shot down a combat jet today, for instance.

a reply to: Vovin

Once again none of Ukraine's BUKs were
In range. Furthermore it was Russia who pointed out where all of Ukraine's BUKs were. They never accused Ukraine of even using one of their BUKs let alone at that time. At the same time they never denied the separatists had a BUK nor that they fired it. Instead they said that no matter the case it's Ukraine's fault.

a reply to: GargIndia

The soldiers are deployed for security. It happens in every country.

Yes in their own country...not in their neighboring countries.

a reply to: Vovin

Because evidence is crucial. Russia uses real intel

Ah yes real Russian intel...



Very credible indeed.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Vovin

Not necessarily no. It makes a lot more sense that this was a tragic accident by the rebels, than the Ukrainian military did it to set them up considering that absolutely nothing has happened as a result.

Well I don't believe that.

Also, who said that the Ukrainian Army did it on purpose? Why couldn't they commit a "tragic accident"? Makes more sense to me that conscripts operating theatre SAMs would make a mistake during a drill than simply accusing rebels, many of whom are much more experienced.

a reply to: Vovin

Because there was no reason for them to be in firing position, since the rebels have no aircraft. The rebels on the other hand, have used them at least one other time to shoot down an aircraft. They also apparently were waiting for an AN-26 to come into the area, which would require the use of this missile system. The circumstantial evidence points to the rebels a lot more than it does to the Ukrainians.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Vovin

Because evidence is crucial. Russia uses real intel

Ah yes real Russian intel...

Very credible indeed.

On the left is the Ukrainian security service release of an area where they claim they did not have Buk operating. On the right is a Russia satellite image of the area during that day showing Buk systems. In other words, the Ukrainians fabricated evidence.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Vovin

Because there was no reason for them to be in firing position, since the rebels have no aircraft. The rebels on the other hand, have used them at least one other time to shoot down an aircraft. They also apparently were waiting for an AN-26 to come into the area, which would require the use of this missile system. The circumstantial evidence points to the rebels a lot more than it does to the Ukrainians.

So now you have a device to measure somebody's intentions. How do you know what Ukrainians are up to.

What is this "since rebels have no aircraft". Then why SAM deployments at all. If we apply logic to your statement, it is absolutely clear that Ukraine government shot down MH17 intentionally.

originally posted by: GargIndia

So now you have a device to measure somebody's intentions. How do you know what Ukrainians are up to.

The same way Pro Russians calim that the entire Pro Ukraine group are a bunch of, what did pro Russians use, Neo Nazi skinhead fascist junta?

originally posted by: GargIndia
What is this "since rebels have no aircraft". Then why SAM deployments at all. If we apply logic to your statement, it is absolutely clear that Ukraine government shot down MH17 intentionally.

Because Russia is engaging Ukrainian military forces inside Ukrainian territory and airspace on behalf of the Russian rebels on the ground.

As has been stated and confirmed numerous times now, Russia invaded Ukraine, and are continuing their offensive. As was stated time and again, Putin backed himself into a corner, and not matter what path he chooses, he lost.

If he pulls out of Ukraine, he is abandoning those he stirred up for the rebellion. If he continues, more economic markets will get slammed in his face, with a possible military buildup in NATO nations to block Russian aggression.

Even if he were to take all of Ukraine and stop, Ukraine alone cant make up for the losses in the Russian economy. If anything the funding to bring Ukraine up to speed would not only bankrupt Russia even more, the Russian economy cant support it at all.

Russian economy taking a hit because of Ukraine.
The Chinese government having to admit they are close to 26 trillion in debt with the manner they run their banking / loan sector.

Yup, the 2 "top" cornerstones to BRIC... I wonder why we don't see a marathon for nations to join.