MH17 Black Box Data Shows Evidence Of Missile Strike

a reply to: Xcathdra

I pray you are right and I'm wrong.

a reply to: glend

You mean the same way that war was guaranteed in 1980 when the US imposed sanctions on grain sales to Russia?

a reply to: Zaphod58

Its not just grain, its banking and oil sector, lifeblood of the Russian economy, asking Russia to start a greater war or perish.

a reply to: glend

And yet, sales to Russia are higher than ever, after sanctions were imposed. The bigger danger is from internal forces in Russia.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I don't know how the general public feels about Putin. If the sanctions bite the people, will they blame him or the US. BRICS Bank was recently announced so Russia might be one step ahead of the sanctions today. Will have to keep close eye on everything see how it all plays out.

a reply to: glend

The general public doesn't care if it doesn't affect them. Putin is under more threat from internal forces than Russia is under threat from the sanctions. He's pissing off his big money people, and they're starting to get upset with him. He needs to worry about them more than he does about the sanctions.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Yes true but my feeling is that he will weather any internal storm as long as his ties with China remain strong. His ticking time bomb is the neo-nazi force being trained in Ukraine. They have a large population and a large stockpile of military equipment if Russian reports are true. He'd want to try put out that fire out before it becomes too hot to handle.

BRICS is 5 nations and, conservatively, 20 years away from equaling the current systems in place.

I am not sure why you guys keep referencing BRICS since it has absolutely nothing to do with whats going on. If the US wanted war with Russia we would already be at war. Given that Obama is still waiting on his spine donor and likes to use drones over the military........

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: Zaphod58

Yes true but my feeling is that he will weather any internal storm as long as his ties with China remain strong. His ticking time bomb is the neo-nazi force being trained in Ukraine. They have a large population and a large stockpile of military equipment if Russian reports are true. He'd want to try put out that fire out before it becomes too hot to handle.

I see Russian propaganda is still trying to portray anyone in Ukraine who is not pro Russian as Nazis. This is the problem with the Russian people. They believe the lies Putin forces on them via state controlled media.

There are 35 members of the Ukraine parliament who are classified as coming from a nationalist political party. There are 55plus nationalist in the Russian Parliament. If you are going to throw terms around and make accusations you should at least know what the hell you are talking about.

Its absolutely disgusting to make the comments you did without knowing anything about the political situation, in either country - Ukraine or Russia. Its pathetic to not question the information coming out, on either side, to ascertain the veracity of the claims being made.

If a war occurs its going to happen because people in positions that can make it happen will have your mindset.

I really don't understand why its impossible to have a debate on whats going on without invoking Armageddon or Brics.

a reply to: Xcathdra

I know the Ukrainian are in the middle of fight between two super powers that probably care very little about the Ukrainian people and their freedoms. The neo-nazi within Ukraine are a very small minority in which Russia does seem to be exploiting as pointed by yourself and Ukrainian Rabbi Moshe Reuven Azman.

So please accept my apology and thanks for clearing up truth from lie's. Please feel absolutely free to check anything I write and correct me where wrong. Thanks

a reply to: glend

There is nothing for you to apologize for.

Actually let me apologize to you. My post was a bit in the wrong place wrong time area. Took my irritation out on you.

My apologies.

a reply to: Xcathdra

No need, I know how frustrating it can be fighting for truth, stay strong.

a reply to: glend

You can fight for truth ONLY if you know the truth.

The beauty of the current political system is that there is an excess of everything, including information, most of which is polluted like the food.

The earlier political systems were based on control of information. This is based on flow of dis-information.

So I wish well to people who want to "fight for the truth" as most likely they will die in the cesspool of lies.

a reply to: GargIndia

Your comment should be the warning to all that sign onto the internet.
I do think the lie's follow a form that can be recognized but I continually fall into that cesspool more times than I'd like to admit.
Just grateful for all the helping hands that pull me out of it.

Thank You.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: glend

So they moved this valuable missile launcher into the middle of hostile territory, shot down a 777, and moved it back out of the area, and the rebels just let them? I guess they shot down their own aircraft as well?

I'
The rebel tactics have been to avoid open ground, they are groups of 30-40 year olds against conscripted 18-19 year olds who easily defect or give in. The rebels mostly abandon open warfare against tanks and airstrikes that way, reports confirm they abandon street barricades at signs of tank and app approaching and choose more favourable terrain, urban, wooded and hills to strike from. There would be many areas of open ground available to Ukrainian air defence to safely deploy in. Also why would rebels leave such a prized (more so for them) in striking distance of Ukrainian artillery and tanks? They could I'll afford to sacrifice or risk the only defensive weapon against indiscriminate bombing assets of enemy forces. Also why was the video used by Ukraine of buks going to Russia actually a video of it being transported into a city totally under the control of Ukrainian forces?

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: MysterX

His comments have nothing to do with this thread / topic.

* - Bankrupt - Show me where the US filed for bankruptcy.
* - Italy and the UK have not filed for bankruptcy.
* - Aside from the usual paranoia I don't see how Obama and NWO are part of the discussion.

As for your investigation comment - There is one in progress by international experts. Ukraine has the lead because it was shot down over their territory and the Dutch are heavily involved due to the number of citizens they lost.

The satellite images were released by the US. Some people dismissed them for their own reasons so to each their own.

The investigators were having issues getting to the site due to heavy fighting in the area. The Dutch and Australia have discussed sending in a military contingent to secure the scene for the investigators however im not sure they approved it, I am not sure if Ukraine approved it either.

I find it funny Russia demands a speedy investigation when pro Russian rebels spent 4 days destroying the crimescene. There was no sense of urgency by Russia on that front.

So yeah, anyone with half a brain can see a clear picture emerging here.

I have a full one and come to a different analysis, go figure. A representative of russia will be there for the deciphering. The Us claimed and backtracked once too often and offered no forensic evidence. The Ukrainians have been busted telling one too many porkies. The Kiev junta are doing everything to gain currency on the world stage, in fact their leaders accusations seem too desperate and too quick, all the while lacking forensic evidence. They have alot to do with this it seems. Why did the Us reps and Kiev release sat footage of the supposed artillery fired from Russia and not footage of buk missile placements to refute ukraine had any in the area? Why did the Kiev junta confiscate Atc records? It would have been in their interest if they had nothing to hide to win the propaganda war hands down. Seems odd for someone with a whole brain.

a reply to: strsla

Oh of course. They're cowards, who refuse to fight, which is how they've held out this long, and taken so much territory.

We know they had at least one SAM launcher, and that they used it. Or are you too suggesting the Ukrainians were shooting their own planes down?

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: strsla

Oh of course. They're cowards, who refuse to fight, which is how they've held out this long, and taken so much territory.

We know they had at least one SAM launcher, and that they used it. Or are you too suggesting the Ukrainians were shooting their own planes down?

I didn't say they were cowards, just normal scared 18-19 year olds who don't care for this. The open territory gained is easy if you got tanks, aircraft, artillery and now using ballistic missiles against lightly armed forces fighting with guerrilla tactics. The aim of the guerillas is not to hold territory so much as to draw in and take out the enemy under suitable conditions. Essentially Ukraine is finding it harder to gain resources to continue the fight, the longer it goes, it goes in favour of the rebels. Conscription was reinstated in May and now has hit it's peak. At the same stage many conscripts particularly from central and eastern ukraine don't have the same beef with Russians as the Ukrainians from the far west. Many are starting to head to the Russians surrendering and gaining amnesty and mothers are starting to protest this Bs in Kiev and around ukraine.

I don't know if they shot their own planes, but there is reasonable motive to manipulate and/or shoot down a passenger aircraft and blame the other side to gain world support. They certainly look like their acting on that motive, rather sickening and amatureshly throwing all sorts of debunked evidence hoping something sticks. Don't think the Russians had this gain on their mind, they seem slow out the propaganda blocks compared to lightning Kiev.

a reply to: strsla

And once again, the accidental aspect is completely disregarded, because it has to have been done deliberately.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: strsla

And once again, the accidental aspect is completely disregarded, because it has to have been done deliberately.

No, to a point. If the flight was diverted (if the voice recorder details prove) by the Ukrainians for dubious reasons, it becomes less of an accident (shooting down a genuine perceived threat from the rebel side) and more of a manipulation and intention from a Ukrainian side. Why add flying military aircraft around a passenger plane, perhaps to give an impression of being an escort for something? And in such an sensitive area, what would be a logical risk outcome for those actions be. The recorders give us the last 2 hours which is just or more than enough between southern Poland and Donetsk. The firing of the missile and who's system it was, seems to be another question arising after the Ukrainian junta got caught out denying it had Buks in the vicinity and then posted it's own Buks being lorried and passing it off to be Russian. As I stated the Ukrainian junta seem to have too much of a hand in this, maybee I'm wrong, maybee I'm not.