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Nuclear Submarines...wait...Chinese?

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posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 08:11 PM
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Cowlan, I think you are referring to the Amur class (677). Russia is building two of these, one for themselves, and one for export. It's not known who the buyer is. It's a diesel/electric with AIP.




posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 08:19 PM
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No, Cowlan is referring to the Akula nuclear attack submarines which is called the "Typhoon" by the russians.



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 08:22 PM
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I believe Amur the name of the shipyard that makes the Akula



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 08:22 PM
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Read Cowlan's post. He said conventional submarine.

edit to add: Hawkssss, the Amur class is the project 677 Lada/ Amur-1650. They are being built in St. Petersburg. This is the latest Russian conventional, as I said it uses AIP. Cowlan is probably right when he says it may be incorporated in the Yuan class boats, as I mentioned in my previous post. Also, I noted previously that the 094 had been launched.


[edit on 3-12-2004 by engineer]



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 08:33 PM
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The Amurs can be equipped with Fuel Cell Drive but the Russians didn't do that for funding reasons.



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 09:17 PM
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Originally posted by Hawkssss
Just found an article confirming that the new 094 SSBN has been launched, but the range of 4800 miles said about the JL-II is obviously wrong.

www.wforum.com...


S---U---P---E-----R !!!!!!!!!!!

now, it is making REAL difference.

it was 47 min ago news at yahoo. just unbelievable. Cause so many people think 094 won't come out until few year later..

again, just super great news. say, great just like the spaceship project? even more. I think. really happy about it. I am thinking about how our indian friend will think about this





posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 09:47 PM
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Originally posted by COWlan
The Amurs can be equipped with Fuel Cell Drive but the Russians didn't do that for funding reasons.

Cowlan, do you have any sources?

As I said, there were TWO of these under construction. The first one (677 Lada) was built for the Russian Navy, and entered service only last month, okay? Here is confirmation from a Russian Government source.

faprom.gov.ru...

The second boat of the class (Amur-1650) was being built for export. So far, Russia either hasn't found a buyer, or the buyer is staying silent. Russia showed a mockup of the Amur-1650 at the Euronaval 2004 show, and plans to show it at the Russian Naval Show in in St.Petersburg from June 29 to July 3, 2005. Since the 677 Lada was about 25% ahead of the Amur-1650 in production, and only entered service last month, it's a pretty good assumption that the Amur version is not even finished yet.

AIP is an option for this class boat. Please don't call it a "Fuel Cell Drive". Unless you have a high level contact in the Russian Navy, you can't claim that 677 Lada is not equipped with AIP. And since there is no known buyer of the Amur-1650, we can't really say how it will be equipped, because that depends on the customer's needs.

I do not say with certainty that the Yuan has AIP, but there are signs that it does. This is mainly based on other significant design characteristics that give a clue to it's intended mission, which I mentioned earlier.



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 10:17 PM
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Here is a great link on naval technology...

www.naval-technology.com...



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 11:12 PM
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You guys really know what you're talking about although some of you are just BS'n....I didn't know China already had Nuke Class Subs but I think this new development shows that whatever they did have it's old...there are some to tricks up the commie sleeve....With Russia's new Nuke Bomb maybe they'll get in bed with eachother..again..and share the technology...let's see..They can both send people to space, the both have nuke class subs, they both at ICBMs they both have the will and desire to slap America across the face twice....hmmm interesting...Glad I'm in China



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 11:19 PM
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are you really in China, what part? We have had nuclear subs for a while but the Xia and the Han aren't really worth a whole lot. But the 093 SSN and the 094 SSBN will be a different story.


But Russia and China are not really natural allies. We are both quite weary of each other. Trust, we would like to crash each other if we could get away with it.

[edit on 3-12-2004 by Hawkssss]



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 11:37 PM
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Oops, what China has shown recently is a consistent ability to surprise the west. The 094 is almost three years ahead of where we thought it was. That's pretty significant. Also, their AWACS are well ahead of where western analysts predicted.

What it shows is China's commitment to short runs and rapid improvement. Build one or two of a class, learn from the mistakes, and use that knowledge to build the next series. They are definitely fast tracking their development, especially on the SSK's.

They don't really need Russia for ICBM's they have the DF-31, and it will likely go into the boomers. 8,000 km range, IIRC. Russia's "new" nuke is really just a mobile version (SS-27 Topol-M) of their old one. (SS-25 Topol). Evolutionary, rather than revolutionary.

[edit on 3-12-2004 by engineer]



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 11:41 PM
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Originally posted by Hawkssss
are you really in China, what part? We have had nuclear subs for a while but the Xia and the Han aren't really worth a whole lot. But the 093 SSN and the 094 SSBN will be a different story.


But Russia and China are not really natural allies. We are both quite weary of each other. Trust, we would like to crash each other if we could get away with it.

[edit on 3-12-2004 by Hawkssss]


I am in Pandaland...if you are in China, you would know where that is...Are you in China?? What do you mean China and Russia arn't neutral allies. I can see a point but can you explain it more? I think apart from their history of communism they had nothing in common but along many of the border areas the culture has influenced the other side and people live together peacefully while crossing eachothers borders for business and pleasures albiet mostly russians coming to china though.



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 11:44 PM
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Originally posted by engineer


What it shows is China's commitment to short runs and rapid improvement. Build one or two of a class, learn from the mistakes, and use that knowledge to build the next series.


Where do you think they learned this mentality..it definately strikes me as a good comparison to what they are doing at ATS and all other software engineers do...Change the system when you find what doesn't work..not merely evolve but re-evolve...revolution....

I don't know but thanks for the feedback I definately agree China is surprising the west little by little until someday we will have to recognize China for the force she is...economically and militarily..



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 11:46 PM
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So you are from Si Chuan?

Here is some stuff written by a Russian from another forum. I think he summed it up very well. Also, russian government had prohibited SinoPec from bidding in Yukos' main oil assets. It also doesn't sell China any top of the line military equipments, etc. They are also giving the oil pipe to the japs. Believe me, we and the russians are not natural allies. Don't be too naive my friend. There is no permanent friends, there are only permanent interest. The russians are also afriad that a strong china will take siberia back from them.

"I agree its rather funny considering the Americans did nothing in Fallujah that Russia didnt do to Grozny and Putin in his heart thinks the Iraqis are in the same boat as the "ungrateful" Chechens and has no real sympathy for them. Putin is an old school Russian imperialist more from the czarist school than the soviet. He views the Iraqis as being "ungrateful" for Americas sacrifice he just wont say it because he has to much $$$ at risk in the arab world.

I actually listened to the speech and he spent 90% of it talking about Indo-Russian relations and the comments on the US are taken out of context to a degree. He was simply argueing for a multi-polar world which is nothing new from a Russian leader. Since the fall of the USSR Russian leaders have been calling for the same thing.

I think its clear from this trip to India that Russia has decided that it will ally with India to counter the US, EU and most importantly China.

Over the past few months Russia-China relations and Russia-EU relations have strained. Russia has all but decided that the new oil pipelines in the east will go to Japan and not China, we allowed the Dalai Lama a visa, and the Ukraine miss is a spit in the face of the EU. We are forging new bonds with Japan and India. Rather interesting.

After 6 years of 7% GDP growth Moscow feels it can once again hold its own with the big boys and no longer needs to seek a full alliance with the EU or a tri-partate alliance with India and China. The discovery of a half dozen chinese spies in Russia hasnt helped Russ-Sino relations either. "



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 11:50 PM
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yes I am in SiChuan..So...where are you? Are you Chinese? Yes I agree the pipleline is the most definate source that points towards the strain in the Russia-Sino relationship to date IMO...But about the spies..every country has their fair share of spies and i don't think that does anything to strain countries' relationships....Just my opinion though.



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 11:52 PM
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Yes, I am chinese, from Beijing, but currently in the US. Are you currently in Sichuan? What city, Cheng Du, Chong Qing?



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 11:56 PM
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Yeah I am in Chengdu...not to get off topic but it's nice to meet you...so since you are Chinese what do you think the Subs we're talking about will influence in the world of politics, might and economy.

Do you think it will actually make a difference??



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 11:58 PM
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Not that much. It just furhter solidifies our position as a nuclear power which we have been for 40 years and one of the 5 recognized member of the nuclear club. But, we certainly have to develope our nuclear arsenal to further ensure MAD as well as having the capability to overwhelm US's missile defense system.

It is vital to our national interest and security as we simply have too many foes.



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 12:01 AM
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Being in China for more than 2 and a half years I am constantly bombarded with the Chinese media that portrays your country in a light of 'friendliness and partnership' with many nations around the globe. I was not aware of this or that anyone thought like this. Besides economic tension between developed nations what other enemies does China have besides the US. Japan is one I know but nothing to worry about....What enemies do you speak of??



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 12:13 AM
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well, I see. you are one of them foreign english teachers right?

Well, it is kinda of late. I have to call it a night. But, quickly, the biggest of them all is US and its pawns, japan, philiphines, etc. Then russia is not really of no threat. India, we still have disputes with. Then vietnam is also a force to be reckened with.

Of course that's what our media says, same as what your media says about iraq: a battle for freedom and liberty for the iraqis while the truth is about oil. We all do some propaganda; it's not a patented chinese property.

I will elaborate further.

[edit on 4-12-2004 by Hawkssss]



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