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Project Pandora FOIA: Mind Control, Microwaves and MJ-12

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posted on Aug, 2 2014 @ 07:06 AM
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originally posted by: Jchristopher5
a reply to: Kandinsky
This either:

1. Proves that the Eisenhower briefing was a legitimate document about real events.
2. It was hoaxed by the CIA and it was out in here to further confuse UFO researchers.
3. Some UFO nut, who happened to be a clerk scanning documents, added it in here for fun.

Seems like every one should be asking questions about this document showing up on the DoD site, but few notice. Strange. This is very compelling.


Here's where I get hung up every time; if we acknowledge that:




"The Aviary" is a collection of strange birds:
a group of key scientists, military men and intelligence agents who share an intense interest in UFOs, telepathy, remote viewing, parapsychology, mind control and the creation of psychotronic weapons.


Than anything they say or do would give me pause and from reading what I have read on them they seem fully capable of making any document appear anywhere they want INCLUDING your underwear drawer.


Having said that, I don't think much of anything they do is on "accident", not to say they haven't misstepped. The mere fact we even know who they are is a testament to that. However, if these men are known professional disinformation agents and have been known to peddle the "MJ-12" (MJ-12 context goes beyond just documents but an idea and/or mission statement) like it was the Everlasting Gobstopper, than any document associated with it, perceived or otherwise wouldn't happen by happenstance.

Now as for


Proves that the Eisenhower briefing was a legitimate document about real events


Let me first offer my views and than provide an exchange between Paranoia Mag and Dan T. Smith (aka: Chicken Little). Because they are known peddlers of disinfo, I view them as having a very specific agenda and based off of their collective interests it doesn't take much brain activity to guess what. Now take this interview with Smith and substitute anything he says about MJ-12 with Aviary and ET's with the "Extra(special)Terrestrial(Humans)" ~AKA- The Elite.

This exchange should really stand out:




JD: How would you characterize the relationship between your Eschaton and the Intelligence community? Are there parallel beliefs, motives or modus operandi?

DS: Along with the rest of the UFO community, I believe that we have been visited. I believe that this visitation was in preparation for a messianic event which is imminent. That event will inaugurate our Millennium of preparation leading up to the Eschaton. The Aviary is the part of the intelligence community most closely and publicly associated with the ‘MJ12/Visitor’ complex. The messianic event itself, however, must be as spontaneous and independent of ‘MJ12’ and the Visitors as is possible. Thus the intelligence community will have very little direct input in this matter. National and global security will be largely redefined under the Millennial Aeon.


So as he prepares to explain the connection he identifies that any "messianic" event must be independent from the visitors who precede said event as must the Aviary (MJ-12) themselves. Why? perhaps to give creditability? Lets see:




JD: OK, can we clarify this a little? What do the Visitors and UFOs have to do with the “messianic event”? What is the relationship between the Visitor phenomenon and the Second Coming of the Messiah?

DS: I am suggesting that the Visitors could be playing several roles that would be relevant to a messianic event. They would be an off-world advance team helping in the preparation. This would involve alerting the powers-that-be to the inevitable advent of the Messiah, Millennium and Eschaton. They would convince those powers that it would not be in their interest to interfere in the cosmic plan. The Visitors might then negotiate with these powers in selecting a mutually acceptable individual for the role of Messiah. The Visitors might also be overseeing the ‘abduction’ phenomenon in as much as it could be part of the preparation for the Millennium.


So step 1 in this grand event is to get nations to agree who will host the messiah. Check.




JD: Am I missing something here? Isn’t there already a Messiah assigned to this role?

DS: This is a heterodox scenario. This is divine minimalism. Christians will be mightily disappointed, those who were expecting a figure in white robes to descend from the clouds. The idea is that we do not need theatrics this time around. There is a package deal. Whoever can convince the world of its immateriality and of the rationale for the Millennium and Eschaton, that person will be the Second Coming. Anyone who aspires to being this paradigm shifter should expect to play that role. I feel no need to apologize for personally wanting to put an end to the hegemony of materialism.


No theatrics? A package deal? So what was it he was saying before about the need for the messiah to be independent of the visitors heralding this grand event?




JD: You suggest that this messianic event must be separate from the Visitor phenomenon, meaning perceptually independent?

DS: Let’s back up a bit. I am saying that we humans constitute a very significant aspect of the cosmic mind. The First and Second Coming, in particular, are designed to awaken humanity to their central role in the cosmic plan. We don’t need to be told this, only reminded, so easily do we forget. Our memory only needs to be jogged a very little bit. Minimalism is the word when it comes to divine intervention, in keeping with the ‘prime directive.’ The perception of coercion is the very worst thing that could happen. If it appears that the cosmic plan is being imposed upon us, we would naturally react negatively. In reality this plan is of us, by us and for us. The messianic event is critical. It may appear that I have just contradicted myself. From the previous response one might imagine a smoke filled room underground in Area 51 where the Visitors and MJ12 haggle over the identity of the Messiah to be ‘imposed’ on humanity. This hardly seems spontaneous. However, if these negotiations can be kept secret, then the intervention remains minimal. There can only ever be informed speculation as to what might have actually transpired. The ‘designated’ individual would have to convince her fellow humans as to the reasonableness of the hypothetical selection process.


Skirt, skirt....yes please, let's back up here. This response is so very telling, he even acknowledges the blatant contradiction here but think about it really; A benevolent God and his cosmic plan is entirely dependent on us being ignorant and coerced into something? To me this is a glimpse into the blueprint of a mass control system re-boot and almost as if this blueprint was embedded into scripture to keep the system moving forward. Which if true might provide a little creditability to what he is saying. But then again, if we are and have been manipulated for a very, very long time in such a profound way and now cahoots with unsavories....well, I'll leave it at that. Sorry for the long rant.


Link
edit on 2-8-2014 by Rosinitiate because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 2 2014 @ 12:35 PM
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At this point, "clerical error" has to sit near bottom of my list. Unless it was a divine hand that moved the clerk's hand to further point researchers in the direction where UFOs meets ABC's meets Psychological Warfare.

Now, the enigmatic C.B. Scott Jones---who has been reported to have infamously uttered the following:


"There are reasons to believe that some government group has interwoven research about this (mind control) technology with alleged UFO phenomena. If that is correct, you can expect to run into early resistance when inquiring about UFOs, not because of the UFO subject, but because that has been used to cloak research and applications of mind-control activity.”

When asked if he continues to think the UFO subject cloaks mind control research and applications, Jones replied, "I think that the UFO/ET subject has been used to cloak a number of classified U.S. programs that certainly includes mind control. It probably has been used more often to confuse and disguise aerospace weapon systems than other subjects. It has been particularly effective when there is a presumed close relationship between what is trying to be protected and assumptions about characteristics associated with UFOs and ETs.

The Interesting, Eventful and Incredible Story of Commander C.B. Scott Jones

Michael Heiser also gives Jack Brewer credit for the following link which is a good sourced primer and pretty responsibly covers the case for EM/MR weaponization and well worth the read, especially if you think the "mind control" and microwave weapon topic is nothing but silliness. It's not:

Remote Mind Control Technology by Anna Keeler

That article also mentions a Dr. Lin from Wayne State University as being involved in microwave acoustical work (like "voices" beamed to the head for one example). I'd also note that Aviarian, Neuroscientist, Ex-CIA Heavy-Hitter, Defender Supreme and Pal of Richard "Dick" Doty, Associate of the late Dr. Jolyn West (MK-Ultra) and UFO Tale Spinner Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green is also at Wayne State U. I've been meaning to look into WSU for awhile now. Probably some gubmint funding of research pertinent to this thread is happening there I'm betting. Any help on that would be appreciated.

However the EBD (Eisenhower Briefing Document) got into that FOIA, I'd say it was right at home with its kith and kin.


edit on 2-8-2014 by The GUT because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 3 2014 @ 03:17 AM
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a reply to: wtbengineer



Ok, I've dug up all I can find on Sen. Pell, and I don't see any link between him and the EBD. Maybe I'm missing something, if so, could you fill me in? I know about Pell's fringe interests and I do believe that Pell was aware of Drosnin back in '91 but it seems to me a tenuous link between the EBD and Pell.


There isn't a direct link between Pell and the EBD. There's a speculative link that's by association only - Pell knew CB Jones who was the man making the allegation that Drosnin suffered an FBI mind-control attack. With neat circularity, that claim appears to have inspired the FOIA application by Drosnin that led to the mind-control folder in Pell's papers. CB Jones was an associate of those who were implicated in the creation of the MJ-12 docs.

a reply to: mirageman



It all points to a number of possibilities from being a clerical mistake when being copied/scanned to something more?


I don't think it could be a clerical error. The EBD was only ever a negative on a roll of film. This means that someone took the trouble to print it as a document and put it in the Pandora Project file. I'm not so hot on US National Archives locations, but would be curious to know which one the Pandora papers came from. The Cutler-Twining document was *found* by Moore and Shandera in Suitland, Maryland and is the only MJ-12 doc that was a hard copy on authentic paper from the 50s.
For the EBD to be planted, perhaps someone needed to know beforehand that a FOIA for the Pandora papers was being considered? I wonder who was close enough to Drosnin to know about that application?? Hmmm let’s think about that…

a reply to: twfau



The experiments also seem a little pointless to me, surely they could have just done observational analyses on the psychological, physiological effects of the people working in the embassy.


It's possible that much of the SRI experiments and claims were intended for the Soviet audience - sophisticated psy-ops to make them paranoid. Likewise, might it be possible that the Soviets’ 'Moscow signal' was harmless and intended to make the Americans nervous? We know it unsettled the CIA enough to instigate Project Pandora.

Without the information, we can't know what the hell was going on. Personally, I'd be interested to know if MR could negatively affect someone's cognitive processes? Not in a dramatic, sudden fashion, but in an overall decrease in critical thinking and less ability with problem-solving. Scattered thinking would benefit enemies.

a reply to: Rosinitiate

In all honesty, I'm about as bemused as anyone when it comes to that alleged group, the Aviary. We've no evidence that they were a genuine group or that (if they were) they had official approval. There's a stack of he said/she said that has taken on the appearance of being something substantial and 'spooky' and yet what does any of it mean and what would be the ultimate goal of all this BS they've allegedly been involved in?

Beliefs and the creation of myths are the themes that stand out the most. During the Bennewitz period and the 'dark ufology' of the 1980s, people were being conned that aliens had visited and were distinctly evil. They wanted souls or they represented an eschatological threat. In parallel, another wing of 'light ufology' followed religious values and people were then conned that aliens had visited and had good plans for humanity - plagiarising elements of Clark's Childhood's End.

It doesn't surprise me that Dan T Smith is treading the eschatological waters and associating the Aviary members with Biblical prophecy. It very neatly ties in with Drosnin's later work on the 'Bible Code' doesn't it? Funny that a document associated with the Aviary would turn up in that file huh?



posted on Aug, 3 2014 @ 03:39 AM
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a reply to: The GUT



At this point, "clerical error" has to sit near bottom of my list. Unless it was a divine hand that moved the clerk's hand to further point researchers in the direction where UFOs meets ABC's meets Psychological Warfare.


Hiya buddy, isn't it a peculiar coincidence? I think someone knew Drosnin was making the FOIA request and made sure that document was ready for him. Whether it was Drosnin's benefit or someone close to him is anyone's guess. It's similar to the way Moore and Shandera *found* the Cutler-Twining Memo in another box at the National Archives, Maryland - they were primed beforehand.

If they were part of a sanctioned, official operation, the EBD’s placing would be a deliberate and sophisticated chess-move intended for a known audience. If the MJ-12 docs were a maverick attempt to create a product/story from which they could make money, we’d need to consider the EBD drop as a smart-ass piece of product-placement. I guess we can’t rule out another possibility that the alleged group had no official authority and were motivated by their own belief systems and interests.

The mind-control associations follow the field like a bad smell. Maybe the EBD was dropped in there to unsettle the mind of Drosnin and distract him away from his apparent interest in MR tech and mind-control? Bennewitz was apparently side-tracked from genuine, secret technology by the fricken' aliens and this seems similar. Had Drosnin's research into 'The Company' led him in the direction of secret MR technology? Is there a solution for certain dissidents and nosy investigators?

Beyond that, the creation of myths and beliefs seems to have a wider motive than single individuals. The same folk with the same associations and the same songs. Sirens?



posted on Aug, 3 2014 @ 04:47 AM
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I remember reading something some time ago about C.B. Scott Jones speaking at a conference about using telepathy on dolphins (interspecies telepathy) so the dolphins can track underwater UFO's, whether USO's or crashed craft. I can't really find anything on it though. Maybe I'm mistaken but it does show a continual trend of UFO/Parapsychology linkage.


Are there any documents covering Center for Interspecies Communications?

I think Gut is right on about the EBD document fitting in with these projects. Here is an article from Nation Geographic:

Five Good Reasons To Believe in UFOs




Possible physical evidence of encounters with alien spacecraft. The 1968 University of Colorado report, compiled by a team headed by James Condon, documented numerous instances of areas where soil, grass, and other vegetation had been claimed by witnesses to have been flattened, burned, broken off, or blown away by a UFO. A report by Stanford University astrophysicist Peter Sturrock, who led a scientific study of physical evidence of UFOs in the late 1990s, describes samples of plants taken from a purported UFO landing site in France in 1981. French researchers found that the leaves had undergone unusual chemical changes of the sort that could have been caused by powerful microwave radiation—which was even more difficult to explain, considering that they found no trace of radioactivity at the site.


Is it just me? It feels like there's a trail of bread crumbs leading to a gingerbread house.....
edit on 3-8-2014 by Rosinitiate because: (no reason given)
edit on 3-8-2014 by Rosinitiate because: Edit: Enquirer to Geographic hahahaha



posted on Aug, 3 2014 @ 05:04 AM
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a reply to: Jchristopher5

Thanks for your post as helped the thread to get a few more replies. It's a pain in the ass when someone else has posted a thread already...it's happened to me 3 or 4 times and one of them took a lot of time whereas the one that was first was a 2 line waste of space.


It's possible that DoD has low-level staff on a sort of production line just scanning in mountains of paperwork and passing them on to the IT folk to upload on the site. If that's the case, chances are they neither notice or care.

The actual archivist who collated the Pandora papers must have noticed the anomalous EBD straight away and wrote the comment across it. From what I understand, anyone can visit the archives as long as they receive prior permission and must sign in. This leaves scope for someone to request a specific box and be able to plant a document in there.

Maybe there's a record of who requested the Pandora papers in the period immediately prior to Drosnin's FOIA? Would the rascal who left the EBD use their own name? Another interesting avenue of pursuit would be to read whatever Drosnin included in the mind-control file he sent to Pell back in 1991.



posted on Aug, 3 2014 @ 08:43 PM
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I wonder if it's as simple as people becoming more and more aware, as time passes, that the technology for mind control, building matrixes and suggesting augmentations over the environment as well as the people living within it, proliferating diseases which are man-made, weaponized and used also as behavior modification and with such a stigmatizing effect as to conveniently make irrelevant any who fight to reveal or to end such a "program," would all obviously become more and more of an issue.

The same technology that most of us love, our cell phones, televisions, computers, etc., will eventually be understood as devices that keep us copacetic, distracted, but also allow us to exchange information about changes in our lives when and where all those techs are present.

Then we have the prevalent and escalating reports of UFOs, increasing interest in Eisenhower's supposed "deal" with off worlders, and documentation providing linkage with the Military Industrial Complex. And there's quite a bit of modern information seeded, almost, where everyday folks can find and investigate it that the military is heavily linked with all of it: spreading and new diseases, their own protections used in battlefield situations from mind control, microwave and EM field hijinks. The military information, itself, shows an interest in developing some of these things as weaponry---I am thinking Michael Aquino's Mind War, here, and what he described as the "future of war."

There's also been quite an acceleration of people, normal folks, reporting the effects of this, some even winning lawsuits against governmental agencies, the military, etc., for plaguing them with it.

What would take the heat off the authorities of the country involved, military, alphabet agencies, et al, but to provide a unifying enemy to blame it all on? It's gotta be, you guessed it: ALIENS Then, at least, they have somewhere else to place the blame.

Just a thought within my limited thinking abilities, at the moment.
tetra



posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 07:24 AM
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This seems to be the best thread for this since we are on the subject of Project Pandora:




José Manuel Rodriguez Delgado (August 8, 1915 – September 15, 2011) was a Spanish professor of physiology at Yale University, famed for his research into mind control through electrical stimulation of regions in the brain.


Here is a bit on his research:




Much of Delgado's work was with an invention he called a stimoceiver, a radio which joined a stimulator of brain waves with a receiver which monitored E.E.G. waves and sent them back on separate radio channels. Some of these stimoceivers were as small as half-dollars. This allowed the subject of the experiment full freedom of movement while allowing the experimenter to control the experiment. This was a great improvement from his early equipment which included implanted electrodes whose wires ran from the brain to bulky equipment that both recorded data and delivered the desired electrical charges to the brain. This early equipment, while not allowing for a free range of movement, was also the cause of infection in many subjects.[3]

The stimoceiver could be used to stimulate emotions and control behavior. According to Delgado, "Radio Stimulation of different points in the amygdala and hippocampus in the four patients produced a variety of effects, including pleasant sensations, elation, deep, thoughtful concentration, odd feelings, super relaxation, colored visions, and other responses." Delgado stated that "brain transmitters can remain in a person's head for life. The energy to activate the brain transmitter is transmitted by way of radio frequencies."[4]


It goes on further to state that he was also capable of provoking a physical reaction in the test subject.

Also worth considering:




Delgado created many inventions and was called a “technological wizard” by one of his Yale colleagues. Other than the stimoceiver, Delgado also created a "chemitrode" which was an implantable device that released controlled amounts of a drug into specific brain areas. Delgado also invented an early version of what is now a cardiac pacemaker


Source

Summing up his philosophy he quotes:



“This new knowledge is so important that I think it should radically change the philosophy of our educational system, which believes in the sanctity of individuals, thinking that an individual exists at birth. This belief is not true. And this science is going to prove the fallacy of democracy in the sense that we talk about the rights of the individual; this democratic belief is not true. Because we are forming this individual, because we are constructing his brain, we are willy nilly making the differences we either desire or dislike.”


Fitting don't you think?

He also notes that telerecording and telestimulation will be a part of our future. How very Orwellian, don't you think?

Additional Source



posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 07:47 AM
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Let me also add:




Possibly the best known case of microwave harassment in the UK was the plight of the Greenham Common peace protesters. Female activists, concerned by the deployment of US nuclear weapons on British soil, staged a non-violent protest around the perimeter fences of the Greenham USAF base beginning in 1981. During 1984, the first Cruise tactical nuclear missiles arrived at the base and the situation heated up in more ways than one. Protesters complained of severe headaches, temporary paralysis, nausea, palpitations and other classic symptoms of microwave poisoning. Tests revealed microwave radiation up to one hundred times greater than background readings taken around the base



In an article written by Gareth Parry for The Guardian, 10 March 1986, titled: In Peace Women fear electronic zapping at base;




"The American military at Greenham Common has an intruder detection system called BISS (Base Installation Security System) which operates on a sufficiently high frequency to bounce radar waves off a human body moving in the vicinity of this microwave perimeter fence."

In a Hearing before a Subcommittee of the Committee on Appropriations, U.S. House of Representatives, on Military Construction Appropriations for 1985, General Schneidel made an indiscreet reference to the possibility of the use of microwave technology at Greenham Common.

"The concept of our operations is to protect the highest value resources on the base...We have a set concept that provides for security while in garrison and certainly in wartime, when it deploys off the installation and into the operational mode.... Whatever the case may be, where the system is not full up with all the required sensors, fences and lights, people will be assigned to compensate for those shortfalls in the equipment."


Source
edit on 4-8-2014 by Rosinitiate because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 03:20 PM
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a reply to: Rosinitiate
a reply to: tetra50

I never intended to get side-tracked into the mind-control scenarios as the placement of the EBD in that file served a different purpose. It stands out like a clown walking on the stage at a Royal Shakespeare Company performance of Hamlet.

Nevertheless, the subject has turned my head enough to check out the state of the technology and the associations it has in the conspiracy world. It's easy enough to start reading popular and obscure web pages that focus on the certainties of grand conspiracies and yet who can tell where the fantasy ends and the reality begins? So it's better to start with the academics and get a feel for the reality before skinny-dipping in the deep waters of Conspiracy Lake.

Professor Jonathan Moreno wrote a book called Mind Wars: Brain Research and National Defense. It was well received and details the ethics of screwing around with minds.

He makes the point that there was a lot of research money available for neuroscientists pursuing these technologies...


Next, in 2002, I was invited to speak at a national conference on neuroethics, organized by Stanford University and the University of California, San Francisco, a meeting that spawned intense academic interest in the ethics of neuroscience. In the weeks and months after the conference, I began to take note of the frequent but casual references to national security agency funding in reports about amazing new neuroscience findings. I also noticed that many of the most prestigious neuroscientists I knew were being supported by some of these agencies' contracts. Yet when I raised questions about the specific nature of the national security interest in this work or the bigger picture behind it, the conversations tended not to go very far. Many of the scientists didn't know much about the larger context, didn't seem to have given it much thought, or figured it was an opportunity to fund their
research that wouldn't lead to anything questionable.


He tried to interview colleagues and was met with an unsurprising wall of silence. That isn't necessarily sinister as why would anyone involved in classified research run their mouth off? He was passed on to a CIA agent who also declined to discuss what they were doing. It's possible Moreno's specialisation in ethics sort of out-manoeuvred him from the opportunities. It's also ironic as his father was involved in the early 60s experiments with LysergicSD and possibly short steps away from the MKULTRA project.

Although this seems like an off-topic, I'm trying to get a feel for the realities of *where* the state-of-the-art lay in respective decades. Diminishing cognitive abilities through the introduction of chemicals and/or MR is a far cry from inserting thoughts. Let's face it, if anyone had the ability to control a person's thought processes and dictate their actions, it'd be a technology that could control the world. To extend that possibility to a rational context, the unavoidable fact that world leaders are constantly in dispute implies that such technology doesn't exist or isn't reliable enough to be practical.

@ Rosinitiate - counter-intelligence and counter-subversive programs might have access to a lower level of MC that has the side-effects noted in the Guardian article you referenced.
@ GUT - Stanford huh?
edit on 4-8-2014 by Kandinsky because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 4 2014 @ 09:08 PM
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a reply to: Kandinsky

^^^^^Great Post^^^^^

Haha…you knew my mind would be magnetically attracted to the reference to Stanford.


originally posted by: Kandinsky

…Although this seems like an off-topic, I'm trying to get a feel for the realities of *where* the state-of-the-art lay in respective decades. Diminishing cognitive abilities through the introduction of chemicals and/or MR is a far cry from inserting thoughts.

Let's face it, if anyone had the ability to control a person's thought processes and dictate their actions, it'd be a technology that could control the world. To extend that possibility to a rational context, the unavoidable fact that world leaders are constantly in dispute implies that such technology doesn't exist or isn't reliable enough to be practical.

Good points, but let's slow it down a bit. I knew I was being lazy by not delineating the term "mind control." So let me correct that and suggest a course of study that should frame not only the term (in coherent and demonstrable terms) but make some sense for anyone interested in this discussion. I paraphrase from my thread, "Electromagnetism, UFOs, and the Weaponization of Alien Technology:



"The term mind-control is a slippery concept. That it belongs--as such an abstract concept--to a wider-range of sub-topics also makes it an easy target for "double-speak" and professionally adept disinformation from its operatives. It sounds "crazy" to many folk--as intended--but not so fast! Lets break the term down a little.

For example, "Mind-Control" can refer to a few different, but certainly related, modalities.

For instance, when we're talking about ELF and non-lethal weaponry, it can be as simple as bombarding someone with waves that produce heat, pain, and/or mental states of confusion and submissiveness.The "mind-control" tag in those instances referring to a simple sort which I'll call: Forced Physical Dissuasion.

Then there's the sort that was pursued in the search for the so-called Manchurian Candidate. These modalities look for more intrusive methods and the total-control of the human psyche. These include the induction of dissociative states, hypnotism, pharmacology, ELF (electromagnetic control of mental and emotional states,) brain-implants, and social programming including the blackest of psyops operations: Forced Psychical Persuasion. (Please note the difference between "Physical" in the first instance and "Psychical" in the second.)

It's not "conspiracy theory" that MK-ULTRA attempted to do those very things. The documentation also makes clear the inclusion of topics that fall under the heading of PSI and Phenomenology. Government mouthpieces and the easily-fooled are quick to say that the MK-ULTRA franchise was discontinued, but we see above that Dr. Sidney Gottlieb procured early funding for Remote Viewing which encompasses many of those same goals and techniques."


So…there ya' go. Any fairly intelligent & motivated researcher can confirm for themselves that the sorts of "mind control" defined above--and the pursuit thereof--are not only sufficiently documented, but, for the most part, well within the parameters outlined.

Kandinsky notes that Jack Brewer is a, "Skeptical researcher and journalist." True that and many kudos to Mr. Brewer.


I would also note the progression of Jack's journey and his increasing focus/suspicion that some pretty heavy-duty mind-effing (psychological warfare/mind-control) begins to make perfect sense as related to these topics and as relates to UFOs in the modern sense.

This topic ain't fer' sissies or the easily distracted. You have to want it. The truth that is. Or at least the breadcrumbs that lead to "best evidence." It's really not that hard if you're hungry.

To tell the absolute truth, I'm not all that interested in this subject any more. At least as far as trying to turn the tide on this forum. Further: I realize that there are few here who have the concern--or impetus--to pursue the topic in any passionate way. Maybe that infers the onus is on me, or maybe that infers the onus is on the complacent. You be the judge.

I'm fairly comfortable betting that no brick walls have been hit technologically as far as EM/MR/MC are concerned. That is, no agency has ever said, "That's as far as we can go" and given up. Ya' know? For now check out Jack Brewer's site and the writings and observations of former MUFON director James Carrion. Nick Redfern is zeroing in, too. Bet those will catch your attention.

MUFON, Science and Deception, Part One

John Alexander, Contradictions and Unanswered Questions



"I think there is a very interesting dance happening between ufology and the intelligence organizations that have more to do with what the goals of the intelligence agencies are than a cover up of extraterrestrial visitation."

- James Carrion, Paracast interview quoted at The UFO Trail




"The Hill abduction? MKUltra"

- Nick Redfern, commenting at The UFO Iconoclast(s)


edit on 4-8-2014 by The GUT because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 01:19 AM
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originally posted by: Kandinsky


Nevertheless, the subject has turned my head enough to check out the state of the technology and the associations it has in the conspiracy world. It's easy enough to start reading popular and obscure web pages that focus on the certainties of grand conspiracies and yet who can tell where the fantasy ends and the reality begins? So it's better to start with the academics and get a feel for the reality before skinny-dipping in the deep waters of Conspiracy Lake.

Professor Jonathan Moreno wrote a book called Mind Wars: Brain Research and National Defense. It was well received and details the ethics of screwing around with minds.

He makes the point that there was a lot of research money available for neuroscientists pursuing these technologies...


Next, in 2002, I was invited to speak at a national conference on neuroethics, organized by Stanford University and the University of California, San Francisco, a meeting that spawned intense academic interest in the ethics of neuroscience. In the weeks and months after the conference, I began to take note of the frequent but casual references to national security agency funding in reports about amazing new neuroscience findings. I also noticed that many of the most prestigious neuroscientists I knew were being supported by some of these agencies' contracts. Yet when I raised questions about the specific nature of the national security interest in this work or the bigger picture behind it, the conversations tended not to go very far. Many of the scientists didn't know much about the larger context, didn't seem to have given it much thought, or figured it was an opportunity to fund their
research that wouldn't lead to anything questionable.


He tried to interview colleagues and was met with an unsurprising wall of silence. That isn't necessarily sinister as why would anyone involved in classified research run their mouth off? He was passed on to a CIA agent who also declined to discuss what they were doing. It's possible Moreno's specialisation in ethics sort of out-manoeuvred him from the opportunities. It's also ironic as his father was involved in the early 60s experiments with LysergicSD and possibly short steps away from the MKULTRA project.

Although this seems like an off-topic, I'm trying to get a feel for the realities of *where* the state-of-the-art lay in respective decades. Diminishing cognitive abilities through the introduction of chemicals and/or MR is a far cry from inserting thoughts. Let's face it, if anyone had the ability to control a person's thought processes and dictate their actions, it'd be a technology that could control the world. To extend that possibility to a rational context, the unavoidable fact that world leaders are constantly in dispute implies that such technology doesn't exist or isn't reliable enough to be practical.

@ Rosinitiate - counter-intelligence and counter-subversive programs might have access to a lower level of MC that has the side-effects noted in the Guardian article you referenced.
@ GUT - Stanford huh?


A lot of interesting projects have/are going on at Stanford.

MK-ULTRA was not a few fringe scientists, it was the top in the field. Ewen Cameron (wiki) who did a lot on electroshock reprogramming was the head of the World Psychiatric Association as well as the Canadian, and US Psychiatric Associations.

A lot of the paper clip scientists contributed.

1973 Helms destroyed most of the Documents, here is what is left: FOIA archive.

These were not done in isolated places, they were done in top mental health facilities, prisions, colleges and universities on knowing and unknowing subjects. NY Times mentions over 80 used



posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 02:14 AM
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a reply to: pianopraze

Hiya PP, I wasn't trying to come across like I didn't know anything and was starting from scratch. I've read a lot about MC over the years, but not with a particular focus - more like broad interest. It's been tossed into the ufology pot with alleged capabilities that are often as insubstantial as UFOs themselves. Various players have been lending MC a sort of omnipotence that is typical of smoke and mirrors and psy-ops. After all, it's as old as Subotai when we allow for our enemies to believe we are bigger, stronger and have special powers.

Much of that is also embedded in areas of the conspiracy world whereby we have rich tapestries of people claiming to have been abducted by aliens, re-abducted by milabs, screwed with and even raped as children. There's a lot of BS to separate from the reality of where we might be.

In terms of the names of folk so far mentioned in this thread? How many are known for being straight arrows? How many are known to literally contradict themselves on the record? How much is known about MKULTRA that unclear events can be explained with unclear secret projects? Do you get where I'm coming from here?

All of us and all of them have been caught being mistaken or misled at some point or another.

There are a lot of different agendas and different people all blowing smoke up our collective asses. When I suspend judgement or appear unwilling to make assertions, it's usually because of wider considerations. On top of that, a lot of significantly more intelligent and trained people are employed to make sure we find a narrative that appeals to our own judgement. I haven't found one that fits yet.



posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 05:18 AM
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a reply to: Kandinsky




@ Rosinitiate - counter-intelligence and counter-subversive programs might have access to a lower level of MC that has the side-effects noted in the Guardian article you referenced.


Hi Kandinsky, I would agree that the side effects described can and likely did come from existing defensive equipment on the ground. That said, it does show a direct correlation.

Now going a step further in potential offensive tech, I came across a documentary from the Iraq war. The title is called "Star Wars in Iraq" and it offers witness testimony and video of multiple ground zero sites caused by some mysterious advanced tech not currently acknowledged by the military.

They offer a pretty gruesome account to a bus attacked by some weapon causing limbs to be severed and guts hanging from the ceiling of the car. Very strange and although I can't confirm anything it, it certainly makes you wonder.




posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 08:40 AM
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a reply to: Kandinsky



In terms of the names of folk so far mentioned in this thread? How many are known for being straight arrows? How many are known to literally contradict themselves on the record? How much is known about MKULTRA that unclear events can be explained with unclear secret projects? Do you get where I'm coming from here?

All of us and all of them have been caught being mistaken or misled at some point or another.




This is the crux of the problem of believability, credence, isn't it, where both MC and UFO sightings and accounts merge. And I think it's been used purposefully in just that way. That's kind of the importance behind MC linked to UFO activity. It negates it, largely, or makes everything suspect from the get-go, because once you accept that people can be "handled" to the nth degree, then it goes hand in hand with understanding when being handled, it may include thinking you see things or experience things that aren't exactly real. By the end of that slippery slope at the bottom of that huge hill, you'll find yourself wondering what reality is anyway. And then you can find yourself mired easily in post modernistic concepts of philosophy that will tell you it either doesn't matter, is relative, or can be anything you wish it to be, or even that you're determining it yourself, just by thinking: reality, that is.

The psy-ops masters, so to speak, of alphabet agencies, know their stuff, are schooled in how to seed reasonable doubt and plausible deniability, and move all that down the road to tacit consent, if necessary…..which becomes just a way of blaming the psy-opped.

By the way, I don't know how off-topic this really is to your thread, although I don't mean to be an upstart and offend you, as it is your topic and OP, so you obviously had an intent in mind while introducing it. What I mean is, I think this may fundamentally address and be entangled with why the Eisenhower document was found where it was. Oftentimes, today, it seems things cannot be disclosed outright, in the open. No one wants to stand up in front of the press and issue a statement. To do so, is usually to invite the worst kind of attention, because let's face it, we can all be made to appear wrong, misguided, even slightly mentally off if not worse than that, if need be. That's also the beauty of MC to the PTB.

In the cyclic nature of time and what we assume is "history," something fundamentally shifted during Eisenhower's presidency, or at least, someone wants people to think that period of time was, perhaps, when visitation started. There are many reasons that could be. Perhaps the document is where it is, sticking out like the thing that doesn't belong amongst the other like things, to call attention to it.
tetra50



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 03:02 AM
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originally posted by: tetra50
a reply to: Kandinsky



In terms of the names of folk so far mentioned in this thread? How many are known for being straight arrows? How many are known to literally contradict themselves on the record? How much is known about MKULTRA that unclear events can be explained with unclear secret projects? Do you get where I'm coming from here?

All of us and all of them have been caught being mistaken or misled at some point or another.


Perhaps the document is where it is, sticking out like the thing that doesn't belong amongst the other like things, to call attention to it.
tetra50


Perhaps, or the same group who submitted the documents on non-lethal warfare are the same who created the EBD and had both documents on the coffee table when it was submitted.



posted on Aug, 8 2014 @ 09:05 PM
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originally posted by: Kandinsky
...We can see that CB Jones was a heavy-hitter and might presume that whatever he said was said for a reason. That doesn’t necessarily mean that he believed Drosnin was targeted by some secret mind-control technology or that his work with the Exopolitics crowd is that of a believer. Those in Intel work in mysterious ways…

Certainly C.B. Scott Jones is the quickest point between A & B. Also, certainly, the intel cadre work in mysterious ways, I agree. However, it's hard to imagine Jones as anything short of some sort of "true believer."

Personally, I think his head has been messed with, too. I certainly don't think he's so eternally gung-ho that he's "always" in deep-cover character. Especially at his age and considering his writings and his post-retirement work that would seem to belie that. Not to mention his apparent willingness to be hypnotized and his continued associations with all things phenomenological.

Drosnin--considering his journalism credentials--does make a good candidate/fit for a little mind-effing. Too many coincidences surrounding these subjects--along with the historical record--should at least raise alarms. shouldn't it?



posted on Aug, 9 2014 @ 06:21 AM
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a reply to: tetra50




This is the crux of the problem of believability, credence, isn't it, where both MC and UFO sightings and accounts merge. And I think it's been used purposefully in just that way. That's kind of the importance behind MC linked to UFO activity. It negates it, largely, or makes everything suspect from the get-go, because once you accept that people can be "handled" to the nth degree, then it goes hand in hand with understanding when being handled, it may include thinking you see things or experience things that aren't exactly real.


I think you make some great points in your post. The nexus of MC, UFO sighting reports and the apparently murky doings of elements within Intel is an area that's essentially beyond comprehension. At the least, it's the No-Man's Land of rational discussion as it amounts to angels dancing on a pin...or whether unicorns wear boots on Venus.

To talk about consciousness and our own cognitive sovereignty in this context, we have to declare that we are speculating and that it isn't a personal belief, but an idle train of thought that led to an abandoned station. UFO sighting reports sometimes contain elements of timely head-turning, coincidental incidents and synchronicity. It's the claim that 'I just happened to look out of the window' or 'We looked up and there it was.' Within the UFO literature and audio reports, we can find people remarking that they had a barely discernible urge to look at point x and there was a UFO - so subtle that even the purported witnesses don't see the significance.

What it amounts to a is a level of interaction between UFO and percipient that could, broadly, be described as MC. I don't mean in that New Age sense of psychic UFOs sending messages of love, rather it's the quiet signal in the noise that witnesses sometimes seem to respond to something subliminal and bear witness to performance theatre. Mike Swords calls them allignment cases, and I'm not sure if he's noticed the underlying questions they raise of conscious free will? The paper, to me, suggests that whatever the stimulus is behind UFO sightings, it's possibly able to exercise a level of mental and physical control.

So...if we consider the possibility that this context has been noted by others and pursued, it explains one level of the association between Intel and the ufology field. Of course, this is speculation and angels on pins and not a belief of mine, it's simply thinking out loud. As you mention the role of psy-ops and plausible deniability, I wonder if that would be a rational strategy in the face of a hypothetical and undeclared 'foe' whose own abilities exceed your own?

UFOs attract a spectrum of beliefs and even Intel maestros are human. Is it possible that some folk within the military and Intel have been interested in the access-to-consciousness that is implied by some sighting reports? It would explain a few extraordinary accounts that lie in the grey areas of ufological lore.

Anyway, I digress from the EBD and your points about its appearance. I tend towards the idea that it's there as historical evidence of mischief aimed at Drosnin or others. The players involved had probably forgotten about it and might raise a wry smile at these meanderings. :-)

a reply to: The GUT

Your points about CBJ could be about right. There have been so many people in positions of authority who've demonstrated interest in paranormal/ufological and they've also shown diverse beliefs. Collins Elite, early NICAP guys, Edgar Mitchell et al; it's all nuts n bolts, demons and saviours.

I don't know if you've heard of this guy?? He was a whistle-blower in the 1990s who was like an early Edward Snowden. If you look at what he revealed, it's a big case of ho-hum and 'no surprises there.' However, it was a major controversy back in its day and divided people in the same way Snowden has. What struck me was the way he subsequently frayed at the edges and apparently became irrational. Chicken or egg, you might ask?



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 04:14 AM
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a reply to: Kandinsky

I needed to think on your reply a few days. Ruminate,as it were.

But this is what I got:




The nexus of MC, UFO sighting reports and the apparently murky doings of elements within Intel is an area that's essentially beyond comprehension. At the least, it's the No-Man's Land of rational discussion as it amounts to angels dancing on a pin...or whether unicorns wear boots on Venus.

Basically, I had to repeat this angels on a pin thing, because it was just too great to leat it pass me by. That's truly genus, that description. And yes, I think it's totally like that. Nailing this thing down is so elusive, the minute you think you have a handle on it, it swerves and dodges, much like the descriptions we have of UFO observers and reporters.

Having said that, it seems that what unites all those responders is their lives were more or less ruined after they outed their experiences. I find that to be very germaine to the issue, at hand, in dispersing and dispensing their experiences, and report of such. Why is that? Surely we must ask ourselves this, if nothing else, at the first.

We can start with Betty and Barney Hill, and what transpited in their lives after "outing" their experience. We can go from there, but I don't think it's necessary. We've all read the literature, and know what we're dealing with, so let's agree to stipulate that, shall we, in further discussion: having said and acknowledged, that once one has divulged themselves as an "experiencer" of a UFO experience, then certain things follow. I.E. their lives get very strange, of the type of experience, or even genre, that they are "slotted" and/or "stereotyped" in such a way as to negate their truthfulness or voracity, capability of even being honest or vetting their own experiences as "truthful" or "authentic."

I find this to be a very important aspect of what we're discussing. And it tends to encompass, naturally, the whole issue of MC, in this way. If you have a constantly recurring issue, such as voracity, as in, say, "all UFO reporters seem to be hysteric in numerable ways. Such as….there are issues of mental stability,or issues of credibility in terms of familial relations (reports of abuse, etc.), see where I'm going with this? And I think there's a constant at work here.

What this suggests to me is simply an effort to negate the experience of the ones experiencing it. I'm not the first to suggest this, surely. This is a pattern well known amongst UFO researchers, I think. We just don't all frame it this way. Sometimes, in other words, it is framed in other terms,to suggest otherwise…that the credibility of the experiencers is really the issue, instead of the way I framed it: that the experiencers all seems to experience after their reporting of their experience that their lives, suddenly, fit into another framework than they thought about it otherwise, before this reporting……

Having described that fully, then there's this:



To talk about consciousness and our own cognitive sovereignty in this context, we have to declare that we are speculating and that it isn't a personal belief, but an idle train of thought that led to an abandoned station. UFO sighting reports sometimes contain elements of timely head-turning, coincidental incidents and synchronicity.


I love your "abandoned station" description, herein, which of course, is anything but an abandoned station, but just seeming so in order to meet the criteria of speculation and simple personal belief. This language, I find, is what is used to defer and deter and minimalize what the experiencer experiences. Very clever, but what the reporters face, every single day, when describing the validity of their experience, striving to make it valid, while everything stands against them, including and not limited to the way and the language used to describe their own descriptions of what took place, what they saw, felt, knew and didn't know.

But yes, you are correct, there is a synchronicity there, an overwhelming at large reporting of those reporting that says " I just happened to look up," and at that point, that's always when they saw it……
I will depart from logic here, and say that for the last twenty odd years or so of reporting of personal experiential knowledge here, we've now got the Astr0s……

and yeah, I'm gonna go there…with Astr0. I can't but help that. It's part of my reason for re-joining the discussion here, attenuant to this issue, when I'd long ago left ago talking and just read. I was one of the, shall we say, Astr0 contacts….

He found me. I find this germaine to the issue, for I long ago left off speaking about this issue, or any other, for that matter, on this website or any other. It was as though he looked for me, parsed my particular beliefs such as they exist in my commentary on this site, for I don't speak on any other, and honed in on what I personally was experiencing, suffering, really. This made a huge impact upon me. Because it isn't just an experience after my own UFO experience. It is a true suffering, a true reality I cannot escape should I wish to, and leave the research behind. I couldn't, you see. That is how overwhelming an experience it has been for me, and this person seemed to know this, and all that was aggregate of that,what I suffered daily and tried to explain to myself, without even discussing it in "public." This is mind blowing, from a personal perspective.

You did't ask for this, in your OP. Though I found your OP to be highy informative, and a starting point for any experiencer, and even more, a question that was posed with the EBD, which to me, stuck out like a sore thumb where it didn't belong…..and so begged the question. Here:




As you mention the role of psy-ops and plausible deniability, I wonder if that would be a rational strategy in the face of a hypothetical and undeclared 'foe' whose own abilities exceed your own?

UFOs attract a spectrum of beliefs and even Intel maestros are human. Is it possible that some folk within the military and Intel have been interested in the access-to-consciousness that is implied by some sighting reports?

In the face of the UFO public asking for "DISCLOSURE," I have had reason to think on this a great deal. For, what if I know or was shown certain things that would amount to the public's demand for DISCLOSURE? But the thing is this, why would I believe as a pay-ops victim, anything I was ever shown? I'd have no reason to, absolutely. I'd believe I was conned liked everything else along the way I was conned into thinking, right? So, why would I even believe what I was shown. Would it just not be another way of negating my personal experience as a targeted individual, possibly?
Yes, logically, and absolutely. What better way to negate the entire UFOology spectrum of personal reporting than take an MK Ultra victim and show them this, to someday have them, at a pertinent time frame, say certain things, when it's convenient? Get me?

This gets highly personal, here, and way beyond the angels dancing on the head of a pin. It becomes the pin is pricking my brain, and I've SEEN those angels. So, then you have to vet your own experiential knowledge, and wonder, question, constantly ascertain. For F's Sake, you have to then wonder what targeted individual, then, means



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 04:22 AM
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and go from there, without seeming totally crazy from your very own point of view, never mind anyone else's.

That's a tall order, with what we're speaking of. But, in the end, you address that, with this:




As you mention the role of psy-ops and plausible deniability, I wonder if that would be a rational strategy in the face of a hypothetical and undeclared 'foe' whose own abilities exceed your own?




My experience of these men is that is definitely the case, and further, as humans, truly, that is the case. We are confronted by what seems more powerful than us. That is frightening, really. So what would we do? The rational strategy is to protect, and the appropriate protection is to assume those contacting us are more capable or have abilities that exceed our own. Even if it's a lie. Even if we know they exceed our capacities, we will do whatever we can to protect our lives, for that is what it comes down to. And we have to assume on contact, they are a controlling force, and therefore, an aggressive foe.

The intel and military of our country will definitely regard any other "power" as an integral foe….if they seek to control the controllers. That's the issue. So, yes, to your question, there.

What I describe as an individual, is being wedged between an off world asset and the controllers of this world. It is not a pretty place to be. I think this is the plight of the experiencers, in general.

As for the EBD, in general, I've made myself clear, I think. It's not so simple as having a laugh, or I told you so with Drosnin or anyone else. I think there's something to be made of that showing up where it didn't belong……
Regards,
tetra





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