In My Home Town and Coming To You Soon. Surveillance 24/7

I'm not sure how I feel about this so I thought I would post it for you and see what ATS has to say...

On the one hand, it should cut down on a lot of criminal activity, on the other, is it not a direct violation of some of our civil liberties?

Myrtle Beach surveillance cameras raise civil liberty questions

Surveillance cameras already operate along Ocean Boulevard in Myrtle Beach and the Boardwalk, and more surveillance cameras will soon be placed at boat landings in Horry County and at several parks in Conway. But many people don't even know they're there.

"Who's looking at it? That's creepy," said Marshall Whitmore, a Myrtle Beach visitor.

Myrtle beach spokesman Mark Kruea said the cameras along Ocean Boulevard and the Boardwalk are extra eyes for police.

"That's a busy place and it's just an extra set of eyes that you can have to make sure that should something go wrong, you got a record of it and hopefully track what happened," Kruea explained.

Carolina Live

I know that as a law enforcement professional I would be expected to be in favor of these things, I just know there is a high potential for abuse and loss of liberty.. That is never a good thing..

Thoughts???

a reply to: semperfortis

I'm pretty neutral on the subject. If I'm not in the middle color me leery of what people might want to look at ... if it's not crime related.

There are cameras all over the place where I live. They serve to keep people from illegally parking (and that's a major problem you'd only understand if you've been here). When I look up and see them it doesn't bother me ... because I'm not the guy who's out to break the law.

a reply to: Snarl

I'm kind of the same.. I could care less if they mounted a camera on my head.. They would just get bored watching the vid feed.. LMAO

But I can not ignore they "Big Brother" aspect either..

(And yes.. I am familiar with the parking.. AND DRIVING.. issues where you live.. SCARY )

originally posted by: Snarl
a reply to: semperfortis

I'm pretty neutral on the subject. If I'm not in the middle color me leery of what people might want to look at ... if it's not crime related.

There are cameras all over the place where I live. They serve to keep people from illegally parking (and that's a major problem you'd only understand if you've been here). When I look up and see them it doesn't bother me ... because I'm not the guy who's out to break the law.

With logic like this is it any wonder why tyranny is at our doorsteps. We are fast becoming a police step by step year by year.


This reminds me of the logic so called pro gun hunters use when they say we need to keep the 2nd because of hunting. They are actually hurting the very thing they think they are helping.

a reply to: semperfortis

I can understand that it would reduce criminal activity in that area, but at what cost to our civil liberties? I think anyone who became a victim of a crime in that area would be thankful the criminal was caught on video, no matter how much you're against cameras on public streets. It's only offensive when you're not a victim.

On the other hand, if government is going to monitor public streets, there needs to be laws on the books that prevent abuse of the system. I would make sure there was a camera trained on the people who are monitoring the videos to keep them accountable for any abuse.

I'm sure public cameras are only going to increase considering they have reduced crime, caught criminals, terrorists, and at times have captured abuse by public officials. With the steady improvement of monitoring technology, our civil rights to privacy has definitely taken a back seat. The question is, in the long run will it be worth it?

The problem is, cameras are used for Law Enforcement, that is, after the crime to find the guilty.

They are not used to prevent crime although that is usually what they are lauded for.

Police used to be about prevention as much as enforcement.

With all the hype, one could e forgiven for imagining a battalion of coppers all watching the video screens and sending patrols in either during a crime or before a crime.

Sadly that is not what happens. After the crime is reported, they view the recorded video to find out who did it.

The cameras do not prevent crime, they just help to catch the guilty and throw them in prisons for profit.

The fact that they can be used for many other purposes including infringing on your privacy is wrong.

Give the Police some new toys and watch them find ways to abuse the implied trust.

Can someone tell me, if these cameras are in use, why can't ordinary citizens access the feed. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. There would be a lot less police and government misuse of powers if we could watch as well.

Sadly, when you need the video to prove wrong doing by the police, it is always a case of glitchy or broken cameras or accidentally wiped hard drives. Hmm, where oh where have we heard that one before.

P

a reply to: WeRpeons

I would make sure there was a camera trained on the people who are monitoring the videos to keep them accountable for any abuse.

And make them available to the general public via live internet feeds.

P

Big brother is alive and well .. most likely along the beach theyll watch women in bikini's more than keep an eye out for crime .. more and more glad walked away years ago ..

freedom.. rights and privacy are all but dead in america now ..

Like Snarl said in many cities in S.E. Asia..... they are wired for cameras and are used as Pheonix358 mentioned after a crime is committed. Snarl wish they would use them for the parking problems around here ! A 2.5 lane road in town can be less than a 3/4 lane during a busy day.. Problem here is many of the roads were made for 3 wheel (pedal) pedicabs locally called Somlarrs .. (3 wheels)

Anyway in many cities a grab and snatch purse thief or anyone one else wanting to do mischief, is usually apprehended due to a full video of their actions.

City street surveillance does not bother me near as much as NSA and their excuses for watching your kids birthday party video you sent to grand Pa and Mom or pics from a girl friend who wants to do some catch up ... Out of sight out of mind for many and with the lack of oversight there is much room for abuse...IMO

Basically, the cameras we have here in the UK are like a caricature of an over the top, Orwellian joke. They're everywhere.

They bill them as something that will keep the public safe, or at least safer. They do nothing of the sort, they do not stop or prevent crime or terrorism.

They just allow everyone to be monitored, movements tracked and essentially is a big brother set up.

It's estimated that in the UK, if we leave our homes, we get recorded an average of 300 - 400 times a day.

Yet the UK crime stats show categorically, that many forms of crime, including violent crime, are actually increasing not decreasing despite the ever present cameras watching and in many cases, listening to almost every move.

So much for the 'cameras for public safety' angle..it just isn't true.

Cameras can however, make crimes easier to solve, and can add value to prosecutions of criminals..so there is that going for them..but as you ask, is making the police's and public prosecutors jobs easier worth it measured against our loss of privacy and being scrutinised every minute we're out and about?

That's debatable i suppose.

The whole point of things like this are for abuse. When was the last time a government body was concerned with people's well being in more than just words, is the question a person should ask themselves when considering this monitoring of public places.
They pretty much will throw anyone under the bus, and are usually trying to get out of paying for some benefit of one kind or another, or they are denying responsibility for someone, or groups of someones who have been damaged by an inappropriate action of a government body including law enforcement..

Based on this pattern by our government officials, and by policy makers that give these mandates to law enforcement, I would say that these surveillance programs have an unstated purpose in the minds of those creating these programs.

Once people are completely used to them, and thoroughly brainwashed that they are a good thing, these things will intensify and lead to even more intrusive forms of abuse.

I personally would not agree to being monitored, and would retaliate against those implementing these intrusions against living in a free society. (supposed to be, and on paper only, at this time).
If enough people ignore that we are a free society, then no one will believe we are and they will act accordingly. We shouldn't let them.

I live in London and we have more cctvs in operation than any other country in Europe, I've always likened it to the old German days when you would be walking through the streets and hear PAPERS! It seems to be the modern thing to spy on citizens.

When the revolution comes we...oh who am I kidding. We are all just keyboard warriors, we will sit here and shout REVOLUTION or CIVIL WAR but only if we're safely in our homes or on our mobile phones. We are a generations who cry out for our rights but arent prepared to fight for them. And yes I'm including myself in that.

I wonder who else has the guts to admit to it.

a reply to: WeRpeons

On the other hand, if government is going to monitor public streets, there needs to be laws on the books that prevent abuse of the system.

Laws aren't any match for the commander-in-chief's executive orders.....
Evidence of citizen wrong-doing will be preserved, while that of civil servants will magically disappear.

I remember writing a rare letter of complaint to a large department store because when I went to pay my monthly bill at their credit department, they filmed me without asking my permission, nor did they warn me that I was being filmed. Imagine! That makes me almost sound like I just stepped off the ark, doesn't it? Nowadays that intrusion has crept into society so much that nothing is private or sacred, not even inside our own homes if we are to believe some of the smart meter and television manufacturers.

If I were to believe that all this surveillance is to prevent harm being done to me and mine, then it would be a mental compromise, but if I believe that I have been unwittingly become part of a watched and controlled society, then I feel enslaved. If we readily accept this situation without reflection or thought, then woe to us all, I believe.

a reply to: semperfortis
Watch the movie 1984, and tell me how wonderful all this surveillance will become in our near future. "Big brother" wants to be like "god". Omnipresent and omniscient. The all-seeing eye. Creating fear and trembling, worldwide.

In an ideal society, with a benevolent leadership. Cameras, and so much other technology could be wonderful tools for the advancement of society. However, this is not Utopia. Nor will it ever be.

"The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws." Ayn Rand

I see everyone talking about abuse yet nobody is telling us how exactly law enforcement is going to abuse this.

Are they going to be gawking over a woman in a miniskirt walking down the street or something? Hell, guys do that anyways with or without cameras.

So what is this abuse you all are so afraid of?

Is it loss of privacy when the cameras are in a public place?

What's the difference if, instead of a camera, there was a police officer on that place, watching people go by?

Will these become more than just surveillance after the fact, but even more pre crime or even the talked of AI pre crime detection systems? In the future leading to AI drone systems.

Pre crime cameras have been installed in San Francisco in the last few years. Guessing it's too soon for a study or to know how well the implementation is doing?

Ex text from OP source-

"We don't monitor the vast majority of citizens who are law abiding just in case something happens. That's surveillance and it's un-American, really," Middleton said.

Middleton said there needs to be stricter regulations on surveillance cameras.

"Part of the protocol that are important would be limiting access to the video and not retaining it for long periods," said Middleton.

At least they are considering having stricter regulation and time limits on the video storage.

However, as mentioned, it's still open for abuse. Similarly I see reader comments under the article replying how the NSA started out more innocently now people's private images are traded and ridiculed by employees as a concern.

Middleton said most people aren't thinking about the fact that some things like their health or religion could be exposed simply by being caught on camera; going in or out of certain buildings.

And/or that "This potential suspect matches _____ (insert___religion, disability, etc.,) now they are a suspect."

Middleton said ACLU is lobbying for better policies and for tax dollars to be spent on better law enforcement tools rather than surveillance cameras.

We all know that pictures and camera footage as proof, can be deceiving to inconclusive.

Overall I don't see it as a hindrance for most criminals as they still rob places with obvious cameras already.

More police may not be the answer either vs the cameras. Law enforcement tools otherwise?

a reply to: semperfortis

I believe that if we are so paranoid that our Police feel they have to pull a Big Brother and spy on everything we do, we are not much of a country anymore.

I worry more and more about where this is headed in the future. It's just chip, chip, chip away at our privacy until there will be none soon. It's out of control.

It also concerns me how so many can't seem to see where this is all headed.

a reply to: semperfortis

What does this tell you Semper?