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No, ISIS Isn’t Ordering Female Genital Mutilation In Iraq

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posted on Jul, 25 2014 @ 03:48 PM
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originally posted by: AutumnWitch657
Women are not allowed pleasure in Muslim nations whether it's Islam or not this is a deep set tradition that occur every day throughout Africa and it is designed solely to remove sexual pleasure from the woman. You can choose to be blind but that doesn't change a blasted thing






. e reply to: LightningStrikesHere




are you really trying to convince me of this ?
are you Muslim ?
have you studied the rulings of such ?

your speaking about something that is not of Islam ...period and thats a Fact !



A: The Holy Qur’an states that all believers, without distinction, are equal and that only righteous deeds elevate one person above another. Muslims therefore have an immense respect for righteous and pious men and women. Islamic history also tells us that men and women both served in many capacities from being teachers, doctors, leaders and even as soldiers in battle when Muslims were under attack.

Islam however also recognises that such equality does not mean that men and women are the same. It notes their different physical and emotional strengths and in view of this sets out their key roles in life. The roles are therefore not a question of superiority or inferiority, but a question of natural capacity and proper functioning.

For example men have been assigned the duty to work and provide for their family and women have been assigned the role of motherhood and of looking after the household.

Islam places equal importance on both and also stresses that the roles are not exclusive nor inflexible. This does not mean that women cannot work or serve society or that men have no duties or responsibilities for their children or for their household.

It is interesting to note that where women choose to work the money they earn is theirs and the husband has no right over it, whereas a husband must provide financially for the whole family.

All of this is in direct contrast to the status of women before the advent of Islam






Sexuality in Qur'an and Hadith

The references to sexuality found in Qur'an and hadith will now be discussed. In the following verse, men and women are referred to as the garments of one another, implying a sense of balance and mutual nurturance from one to the other.

It is lawful for you to go in unto your wives during the night preceding the (day's) fast: they are as a garment for you, and you are as a garment for them. God is aware that you would have deprived yourselves of this right, and so He has turned unto you in His mercy and removed this hardship from you. Now, then, you may lie with them skin to skin, and avail yourselves to that which God has ordained for you.(2:187)

Also, by reviewing this and the verses below one appreciates the fact that sexual relations are sanctioned by God and are viewed as part of the spiritual relationship that exists between a husband and wife. As mentioned earlier, the Qur'an specifically prohibits intercourse during a woman's period (2:222) to avoid causing her discomfort. In verse 223 of the same Surah, the Qur'an says:

Your wives are your tilth; go, then, unto your tilth as you may desire, but first provide something for your souls, and remain conscious of God, and know that you are destined to meet Him. And give glad tidings unto those who believe.

Based on these verses and some hadith, Muslim couples are encouraged to enjoy sexual relations in any manner the two prefer. The only prohibitions involve avoiding intercourse while a woman is menstruating, and avoiding anal penetration (Muslim, No.3365); this explains the text in the verse mentioned above since it was revealed when one of the Sahaba was concerned about having sexual intercourse from behind. He was worried that he committed a sin. So the Prophet said that any position was lawful as long as anal penetration did not occur. Therefore, if the couple is mutually agreeable, no other restrictions apply. Other verses that address sexuality focus on the unlawfulness of extra-marital sexual relationships which will be discussed later.

Sexual Rights of the Wife

Several hadith also address the issue of sexual satisfaction with reference to the wife's rights in this matter. The Prophet advised Abdullah bin Amr bin Al-As (who spent all day fasting and all night in prayer) to fast sometimes and not at other times; to pray at night and to sleep at night. "Your body has a right over you, your eyes have a right over you and your wife has a right over you." (Bukhari, Vol.7, No. 127) The wife's rights include a right to companionship from her husband and fulfillment of her sexual needs.

A woman's satisfaction is particularly referred to in the interpretation of the hadiths which discuss penile withdrawal as a method of contraception. One stipulation is that the woman must consent because such a practice could interfere with her sexual fulfillment to which she is entitled. Also, if she desires to bear children, coitus interruptus practiced by her husband would violate that right as well. This viewpoint is based on a hadith transmitted by Umar ibn-al-Khattab who said that the Prophet forbade the practice of coitus interruptus with a woman except with her permission This reference is found in Sex and Society in Islam, by B. F. Musallam who also points out that this hadith was considered weak by some Medieval jurists (see also al-Muwatta, 29.34, No. 100). Nevertheless, the position regarding the woman's right to orgasm was developed over time by several Muslim jurists during the same period (Busallam, Chapter 2 and footnotes). Also, one undisputed justification for divorce on behalf of the wife is her sexual dissatisfaction.

The most explicit discussions of sexual relations with respect to fulfilling the wife's needs are found in the Book on the Etiquette of Marriage, part of Abu Hamid Al-Ghazali's larger work, Revival of the Religious Sciences (Ihya Ulum al-Din), written in the eleventh century. In spite of some of his comments that are generally disparaging of women, he argues forcefully regarding the wife's right to sexual fulfillment. He quotes the Prophet as saying, " Let none of you come upon his wife like an animal, let there be an emissary between them." When asked what is the emissary, he replied, "The kiss and sweet words." In another hadith, the Prophet points out that one of the deficiencies of a man is that "he should approach his wife and have sexual contact with her before exchanging words and caresses, consequently, he sleeps with her and fulfills his needs (i.e. orgasm) before she fulfills hers." Al-Ghazali further elaborates on the importance of a woman achieving orgasm by stating, "Congruence in attaining a climax is more gratifying to her because the man is not preoccupied with his own pleasure, but rather with hers..."



www.mwlusa.org...
edit on 0483033174873th by LightningStrikesHere because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 25 2014 @ 03:51 PM
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No it's not but you are being stubborn and blind. Try googling female genital mutilation and,read the accounts of the women that have had this done.
YOU CANNOT HAVE AN ORGASM WITHOUT A CLITORIS.
I guess you can always fake it.

Y reply to: LightningStrikesHere



posted on Jul, 25 2014 @ 03:51 PM
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originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

Sorry not to be off topic but.. How to have sex? Lol.

Did you not know how to have sex before you converted?



really ? lol

it basically talks about the do's and dont's of having sex , and we all know what thoes are

no need to talk about that here lol



posted on Jul, 25 2014 @ 03:53 PM
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originally posted by: AutumnWitch657
No it's not but you are being stubborn and blind. Try googling female genital mutilation and,read the accounts of the women that have had this done.
YOU CANNOT HAVE AN ORGASM WITHOUT A CLITORIS.
I guess you can always fake it.

Y reply to: LightningStrikesHere



again this is not something that should be practiced in Islam ... i provided plenty of information regarding that .


as another member put it its a cultural practice in many countries .



posted on Jul, 25 2014 @ 03:53 PM
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I don't CARE. If it's Islam or not. It's being done. No I realize we're not going to convince you you've made up you mind. I just hope the battle can be won regardless of people who think like you do. l reply to: LightningStrikesHere



posted on Jul, 25 2014 @ 03:54 PM
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Yeah well it is. a reply to: LightningStrikesHere



posted on Jul, 25 2014 @ 04:12 PM
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originally posted by: AutumnWitch657
Yeah well it is. a reply to: LightningStrikesHere




here this Dr. explains it well.


A war is raging, with extremists on both sides, over the issue of circumcision. On one side are fanatic secularists whose antipathy to religion has induced them to engage in a crusade against all forms of circumcision, including male circumcision, as a form of child abuse. On the other side are ignorant traditionalists who have ascribed to religious belief cultural traditions involving horrific forms of female genital mutilation (FGM, which they defend as a form of "female circumcision"). In between the extremes are many well-meaning people confused about the actual nature of the scientific evidence and the religious prescriptions regarding all sorts of practices involving any form of cutting in the genital areas.

In this pamphlet we shall concentrate on female genital mutilation. Male circumcision is clearly a Muslim tradition. Although it is not prescribed in the Qur'an, it was definitely approved of by the Prophet and he was himself circumcised. The beneficial health consequences of male circumcision are widely known, although some medical groups have begun to waver as to whether they are sufficiently great to justify the fact that infants are circumcised "against their will." We leave this debate for another time and place and mention it here only so that the lay reader may be aware that there is a broader context to the debate over female genital mutilation, which is the debate over whether any form of infant mutilation, including male circumcision constitutes child abuse. We restrict ourselves here to the subject of female genital mutilation and leave the debates over male circumcision and the piercing of infant girl's ears to another time and place.

A concise discussion of the main subject requires a detailed prolog to clarify some issues regarding both the nature of Islamic law and the medical terms used to identify the various forms of FGM. Understanding the background of the matter will permit the reader to understand the Islamic position on this question.

It must be understood that Islamic law has a well-defined tradition of jurisprudence. The sources of Islamic law include both revelation and reason. The efforts of scholars to attain understanding of the sharî`ah (i.e., the Divine Law) through various tools (which we shall not detail here) is called ijtihâd.

One fundamental of the Islamic law is that what is not prohibited is allowed. This makes for a great deal of tolerance in the religious law. As a result of this tolerance many pre-Islamic practices were not immediately eradicated by Islam. When such practices came to be unpopular (or unfashionable) in future centuries, the tolerance of Islamic jurisprudence was mischaracterized by those inimical to Islam as "backward." It was as if someone from a genteel class of society were to condemn America's toleration for body piercing among its young people as proof of the "barbarism" of American law. It would be wise to remember that there is a great burden of proof that Islam puts upon those who wish to prohibit a practice, and that the requirement for such proof is a strength of the Islamic law. Toleration is a strength, not a weakness.

In this discussion I shall refer to any form of permanent cutting the genitals as "genital mutilation." Some may feel this is prejudicing the case, since the words certainly sound pejorative. I think the term is fair, however, since the purpose of all the procedures under discussion–and the purpose of male circumcision and of the now commonly practiced forms of body piercing, including the piercing of the ears done by almost every Western female–is unquestionably to mutilate those parts of the body cut or pierced. The issue of interest, then, is not whether mutilation is involved but rather whether it is religiously (or morally) and/or medically desirable or contraindicated.

Although there is no reference to circumcision at all in the Qur'an, there is a well-established tradition of male circumcision in Islam as a "sunnah" act. In the Abrahamic tradition this act is understood as a fulfillment of a covenant with God, but there are numerous health reasons for the practice. There is no mandate at all for female circumcision, however, neither in the Qur'an, the traditional reports (called hadith), nor medical theory.

Although female circumcision is not mandated, one tradition of disputed authenticity permits (but does not encourage) the removal of a minuscule segment of skin from the female prepuce, provided no harm is done:

A woman used to perform circumcision in Medina [Madîna]. The Prophet (peace be upon him) said to her: 'Do not cut severely as that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband.'–Sunan Abu Dawûd, Book 41, #5251.
One does not want to make too much of this tradition, as it is classified as "weak" by Abu Dawud (the compiler) himself. Nonetheless, it clearly forbids severity in circumcision and bases such limitation on both the potential to harm the woman and the potential to make her less desirable to her husband. Yet, despite the restriction against severity, the Prophet did not here prohibit circumcision completely.
Permitting such a ritual constitutes an act of tolerance by Islamic law for pre-Islamic practices, and may be overruled by the Islamic prohibition against harmful acts. Consider, for example, that Islamic law protects a woman's right to sexual enjoyment, as demonstrated by the fact that a woman has the right to divorce on the grounds that her husband does not provide sexual satisfaction. It follows that Islamic law prohibits clitorodectomy (partial or complete removal of the clitoris) or infibulation (excision of part or all of the external genitalia and stitching/narrowing of the vaginal opening), or any genital mutilation which impairs the woman's ability to enjoy sexual relations. Such prohibitions are consistent with the hadithic warning against severity in female circumcision.

If the Islamic law does not mandate female genital mutilation and tolerates only the most mild form of circumcision (and that only if it produces no adverse effects in the child), then how does it come about that so many people from certain countries with large Muslim populations insist that savage acts which exceed these limits are not only permitted, but required by Islamic law? The answer becomes obvious when one realizes that Christians from many of these countries also insist that the tradition is mandated by their religion as well. People often confuse traditions rooted in local culture with religious requirements.

Immigrants from such countries now residing in the United States stand between the culture of their heritage and the American culture of their environment. They cannot and should not be expected to abandon their religion. There should be no doubt, however, that the young amongst them, at least, will be willing to abandon old-world cultural practices at odds with their adopted culture when such practices are unsupported by religion. (This is because they carry no cultural bias towards such practices. On the contrary, they may absorb biases against them from their adopted culture.)

For Muslims, cliterodectomy and infibulation should be considered harâm (prohibited) practices and opposition to it should be part of our ongoing mandate to fight against superstition and oppression. As to the mildest form of female circumcision, the risks to the girl's future ability to enjoy sexual relations with her husband must place it at best in the category of makrûh (disliked) practices. Since it has neither hygienic nor religious value, there is no justification for Muslims to engage in this painful and potentially harmful practice and it would be best to avoid it completely.

Wa Allahu a`lam. (And God knows best.)



posted on Jul, 25 2014 @ 04:59 PM
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Ya know what? When an article starts off by calling this circumcision I just know the angle it's going to take. It's mutilation. Mutilation. Mutilation. God put the labia there and the clitoris there and he put them there so that women could enjoy the sexual act. I'm looking for a group I can join and if I can't find one I'm going to start one. If I have to give lessons on how to masturbate I'll do it. But women are going to know that they are being robbed of their God given right to have orgasms. If its too late for them then I'll educate them for their daughters.
Funny how no women yell oh Allah when they come. You hear plenty of oh god but no oh Allah. Wonder why that is? Oh yeah because those women are not coming. Not even faking it.


reply to: LightningStrikesHere


edit on PMu31u0773059312014-07-25T16:59:56-05:00 by AutumnWitch657 because: (no reason given)

edit on PM000000310000000773011312014-07-25T17:11:46-05:00 by AutumnWitch657 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 25 2014 @ 05:10 PM
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The last part of that where it talks about kisses ans sweet words and about the man getting his orgasm first so he's not preoccupied is total bull. Show of hands ladies... after he comes does your guy get sleepy? Is his interest as high as before he came? Be honest girls. In our bed she comes first is the rule not the exception. My husband loves it when I climax.
He's happy to go second and my interest does not wan. In between my giggles and shivers I'm happy to please.
Every woman should experience sex this way. Proof... I'm married thirty three years!
t reply to: LightningStrikesHere



posted on Jul, 25 2014 @ 09:09 PM
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originally posted by: LightningStrikesHere

originally posted by: AutumnWitch657
And in fact they merely endure sex. They do not enjoy it. This was done so that they would have no sexual desires. a reply to: BasementWarriorKryptonite



this is completely false .


my wife is Muslim and we have a great time ..just saying ..

where is your fact ?


Did your wife have her vag cut to pieces? If so, I'd be willing to bet that she thinks the sex sucks.

When I read the OP I gave them a rare benefit of doubt, after the replies since I am now convinced the author of this thread cannot tell a lie from the truth or his face from his arsehole.



posted on Jul, 25 2014 @ 09:46 PM
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originally posted by: BasementWarriorKryptonite

originally posted by: LightningStrikesHere

originally posted by: AutumnWitch657
And in fact they merely endure sex. They do not enjoy it. This was done so that they would have no sexual desires. a reply to: BasementWarriorKryptonite



this is completely false .


my wife is Muslim and we have a great time ..just saying ..

where is your fact ?


Did your wife have her vag cut to pieces? If so, I'd be willing to bet that she thinks the sex sucks.

When I read the OP I gave them a rare benefit of doubt, after the replies since I am now convinced the author of this thread cannot tell a lie from the truth or his face from his arsehole.



what a completely rude ignorant statement , how dare you !

how much information do i need to present ?

i have provided you with information , that female mutilation is forbidden in Islam , and yet you chose to bask in ignorance .


enlighten your self .

en.wikipedia.org...


the FACTS i presented are Facts and rulings .

female mutilation is completely wrong and disgusting ..

i am Muslim and my wife is to , i would never ever make her do something like that ..



posted on Jul, 25 2014 @ 09:49 PM
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originally posted by: AutumnWitch657
Ya know what? When an article starts off by calling this circumcision I just know the angle it's going to take. It's mutilation. Mutilation. Mutilation. God put the labia there and the clitoris there and he put them there so that women could enjoy the sexual act. I'm looking for a group I can join and if I can't find one I'm going to start one. If I have to give lessons on how to masturbate I'll do it. But women are going to know that they are being robbed of their God given right to have orgasms. If its too late for them then I'll educate them for their daughters.
Funny how no women yell oh Allah when they come. You hear plenty of oh god but no oh Allah. Wonder why that is? Oh yeah because those women are not coming. Not even faking it.


reply to: LightningStrikesHere



what ? are you present in the rooms of Muslims when they engage each other ?

anyway the point of this thread is , is that the ISIS is not ordering female mutilation ..

and female mutilation is wrong and forbidden in Islam



posted on Jul, 25 2014 @ 09:57 PM
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a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

Oh, I'm pretty sure anything goes in islam.



posted on Jul, 25 2014 @ 10:04 PM
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originally posted by: BasementWarriorKryptonite
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

Oh, I'm pretty sure anything goes in islam.


what does that even mean ?

i am listening ?

since you seem to know about Islam and you cant seem to back anything you say up with fact .

please explain "anything goes "?



posted on Jul, 25 2014 @ 10:04 PM
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originally posted by: AutumnWitch657
I don't CARE. If it's Islam or not. It's being done. No I realize we're not going to convince you you've made up you mind. I just hope the battle can be won regardless of people who think like you do. l reply to: LightningStrikesHere



No one is denying that 'it' (female genital mutilation) is being done.

The OP is his opinion on whether ISIS is practising this barbarity and why such a crime cannot be attributed to Islam.

Why don't you start a thread on the practise and discuss how to end it.

Personaly, I'm pleased to have a serious student of Islam sharing FACTS with us - not sensationalized here-say.
edit on 25-7-2014 by FyreByrd because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 25 2014 @ 11:13 PM
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I was so clueless on this.

Apparently its a fairly widely practiced (the mutilation thing) however its no different to circumcision in my eyes. I dont like that much either but its pretty accepted world wide. I just didnt realize how wide spread it was, seems a lot of religions and regions do it.



posted on Jul, 25 2014 @ 11:41 PM
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originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: AutumnWitch657
I don't CARE. If it's Islam or not. It's being done. No I realize we're not going to convince you you've made up you mind. I just hope the battle can be won regardless of people who think like you do. l reply to: LightningStrikesHere



No one is denying that 'it' (female genital mutilation) is being done.

The OP is his opinion on whether ISIS is practising this barbarity and why such a crime cannot be attributed to Islam.

Why don't you start a thread on the practise and discuss how to end it.

Personaly, I'm pleased to have a serious student of Islam sharing FACTS with us - not sensationalized here-say.




let me extend my thanks , truly ..

this is exactly my stance on this issue .

thanks for your understanding

humbly

LSH



posted on Jul, 26 2014 @ 12:28 AM
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For me it seems that FGM is practiced in the most backwards and poor societies of Muslim Africa, I don't know about it from Arabian lands and certainly not from Iran. So these folks say it is the only proper way, and then they try to sneak into Britain doing that, while in more enlightened Islamic countries and cultures it is considered superstitious, backwards or even falling outside of what they consider their religion.

It would be interesting to see whether the custom is upheld in Palestine or in rich Yemen - not even all poor Muslim cultures like this element. Not even the strict or dogmatic ones - I am not sure wahhabis require this of their wives or daughters. How about the Talibans? The Alawites?
Religious customs are so multivaried - for example some Orthodox Jews require men to wear fur hats even in high summer in warm climates and their women to shave their heads and wear false hair, while others are Jewish just donning a cap on Shabes and on Holidays and are proud of their natural hair.

The right-wing Western media usually collects the most extreme customs these days and lumps them under the same umbrella. ("Those savage Oriental idolaters..." went the Victorian cry.)
Liberal Westerners usually point out that there are many Muslim cultures, and many types of Muslim people. I met American Muslims (Black Muslims) who certainly cannot graft this alien custom on their society having adopted decades for a different type of being a Muslim. In their case this culture was grafted on the mostly matriarchal structure of existing social relations - like the person I knew, a solitary Black Woman who supported several children by her freelance baking operation in D.C, and being Muslim was like showing some extra kindness to her neighbours at times - like distributing free cakes and watching other people's kids. Sometimes she donned some headgear, more often she did not. (I call her Black not hyphenated American because that's simply how she was referring to herself).

I met a Sociologist in the US from a Muslim country who liked his people's traditions as far as food and music etc. but said he did not feel particularly religious. I am sure you find these types of christians and Jews in Western communities too.



posted on Jul, 26 2014 @ 01:07 AM
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I don't see how it makes sense to perform circumcision on females OR males. Weren't we created in God's image? If so, why would we then have to mutilate our bodies? If God didn't want us to have a certain piece of flesh why did he give it to us in the first place?

I think it's a bunch of bs to be honest... Something that humans conjured for what else... More control over others. It's ridiculous that these archaic customs are still so widely practiced in 2014. :/



posted on Jul, 26 2014 @ 02:41 AM
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How dare you sir? How dare you touch a subject that is, umm how do I put it, so "sensitive" to women rights activists?


WHO regards "piercing" as one of the procedures of genital mutilation yet you can easily find so many pop culture celebrities and other women in developed world doing it as a fashion statement.

VOX Reports the report as erroneous.

Reports soon surfaced that called into question the UN spokesperson's claims, which increasingly appears to be erroneous. While the UN investigates the allegations, David Clinch of Storyful, a social media monitoring site, tweeted, "Our analysis is that this was an old, not reliable, claim that somehow re-surfaced this week, prompting UN mention."


Pertaining to actual non-medical circumcision, if a Muslim woman is not allowed to add hair extension how can she be allowed to change her genitals?


Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Allaah has cursed the woman who adds false hair and the woman who has this done, and the woman who tattoos and the women who has this done.” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 5477).


I see so many Muslims Scholars (more than the actual Muslim population [the real Muslims]). People are experts without any prior knowledge, conveniently basing everything on personal opinions and emotions.

As for IS, Jihad can only be called by a state/ country not individuals. There are only few conditions for a rightful rebellion otherwise these rebels are to be persecuted for murder. I wonder why there hasn't been a FATWA against them (probably scared of targeted violence?) For murderes Islam has prescribed punishment as following:



O you who believe! Al-Qisas (the Law of Equality in punishment) is prescribed for you in case of murder: the free for the free, the slave for the slave, and the female for the female. But if the killer is forgiven by the brother (or the relatives, etc.) of the killed against blood money, then adhering to it with fairness and payment of the blood money, to the heir should be made in fairness. This is an alleviation and a mercy from your Lord. So after this whoever transgresses the limits (i.e. kills the killer after taking the blood money), he shall have a painful torment.
2:178


As a member previously pointed out agenda being pushed. Similarly when you hear the word "bomb" the first thing that comes to the mind is "Muslim". Muslims can not commit suicide (blowing off yourself is suicide). Please stop pointing fingers at me and Islam just because my neighbor was caught mutilating his daughter's genitals. Opinion does not make an individual an expert.
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere



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