Civilian vs. Military? Civilian is harder.

Let's be honest, what's more difficult - living as a civilian or as a member of the armed services?

I vote civilian.

Why?

I had to pass university with good grades - no *mandatory* study time such as enforced in the military - my own discipline got me through. No screaming drill sergeants or course commander. Just me doing the leg work.

Staying in shape. Again, no sergeants threatening my weakness, no looming threat of war where I have to hump 30 miles (is it 1930?), no group behavior to push the weakest members forward, no trophies, awards, plaques, for keeping yourself fit. It's just you, and you own disciple as a civilian. Want to be fit and smart - do it yourself.

Defending what's yours. No built-in army, psychological die-for-your-brothers stuff, no nothing. You learn the trade, you network in your neighborhood for mutual defense, and you defend - as a civilian - without gung-ho BS.

The university degree - it needs to be paid back. As a civilian in hotly competitive employment market - you *must* be damn good at your job. Navy SEAL to lowly clerk - the military pays just for 'signing your life away.' It's easier to fight the bad guys than it is to hold down a well paying job, become upwardly mobile, and make something of yourself as a civilian. The military has cowboys (and the wannabes), civilians have no heroism bestowed upon them for making a good living or sometimes just showing up- instead, they just do their job hoping not to lose it. You'd have to be a real piece of work to lose your military job.

I can go on. But frankly, watching the politicians celebrating the achievements of the military they kill and maim in the name of freedom has me pissed off - you know what's hard, #ing existing as a civilian and making ends meet without a safety net, awards, and all that pomp and circumstance that goes along with it.

Signed - an 0311 US Marine who would take going to war again over trying to make a decent living in the US.

Edit to add: In the most simplistic terms - is it easier to follow orders, or pave your own [successful] path with little direction? You know the answer.

a reply to: Jason88

I don't really think either is easier or harder. They both come with a lot of baggage. For example, as a civilian, you're not likely to have to live with the fact that you killed innocent children by just doing your job.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have a lot of sympathy for anyone who volunteers to join our country's military, knowing what it may entail, but I wouldn't say they've got it easier - not by a long shot.

People are people and each one would handle being in the military differently. One thing that I dislike is the hero worship of the military, without even knowing anything else about the person. Just because someone's in the military doesn't make them a hero - again, not by a long shot.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

See I disagree on the mutual baggage claim. If you join the military and were naive enough to think you may not end up killing innocents - well you're an idiot whether you're clerk or not. Granted the baggage of murder is great - it comes with the known territory of the position. The civilian baggage of trying to keep a family fed because the economy blows, that's not planned for, and does not come with the territory - especially if you 'did everything right' and still fail.

I agree with you on the hero worship aspect - I knew outright psychopaths who would come home to a huge welcome. They were high school dropouts, losers with the law, couldn't plan for the future, and simply passed boot camp, went far away, killed some people, survived not being killed - and TA DA - instant hero made for a ticker tape parade. Such BS.

Edit to add: I will grant that heroic behavior is fine - the single soldier holding off a platoon of badies - but then again that's rare, not everyone who joins is an auto-hero.

a reply to: Jason88

I don't believe you.

If you were actually a Marine you wouldn't have called your Drill Instructor a drill sergeant. It's a classic mistake by people who are full of crap.

a reply to: watchitburn

Bah! I also used troops, soldiers, and other titles to all those in the armed services. Hit a nerve, huh? Maybe I need to make a Navy joke? (I don't even think course commander is a title, I used that too).

a reply to: Jason88

You know what, you and I have been around ATS for awhile - I'll be honest. I see my Marine buddies on Facebook, in phone calls, re-living the good old days - missing the Corps. That was under 20 years ago. They haven't moved on, life hasn't gotten better. They came out with NO SKILLS - they're perpetual children. And I love them. But it became clear to me, it's a hell of lot harder out here then carry a SAW in there.

I'm confused,. Op did you get a education, work in the civilian world, then enlist to become infantry? Or did you enlist then get out and get schooled?

If it was the latter then I would think your military training and the GI bill would have helped out quite a bit with the debt, and discipline needed to finish college. You should be a lot better equipped to handle life back home better than the average HS dropout got GED to enlist.

If you went to school, then career then infantry I would love to hear why.

Yeah, it's so easy being away from your family all the time. It's easy having a parent absent because they are serving. Yeah, real easy.

a reply to: canthinkerous

No, I'm not that interesting. Military > School > Career > Family.

The GI Bill helped, but not a lot for a school that will advance your career. The discipline helped, but as far as I can tell following up with my unit - I might be the only who did anything with it. The rest... they're not advancing. Either just making it, or behind.

My problem is when I hear the military is 'hard'. I did Parris Island, the Fleet - it's not hard, you follow orders, simple as that. Is it physically challenging - I don't know, you just follow orders and get it done.

Cutting it in the real world and becoming upwardly mobile in an awful work environment - that's hard. No orders to follow. And bad luck is right around the corner - so no safety net if you didn't build one.

a reply to: intrepid

Choices. Volunteering. If you volunteer for something 'hard' far and away you don't get to complain about broken family. Just like if you live in the North, you don't complain about snow. As for the kids - then its selfish too.

originally posted by: Jason88
a reply to: intrepid

Choices. Volunteering. If you volunteer for something 'hard' you don't get to complain. Just like if you live in the North, you don't complain about snow. As for the kids - then its selfish too.

I chose nothing. My father was in the Navy before I was born. I didn't even know him until I was 16.

Smiling to myself here. You see, I was totally thinking the same way, until I considered the one thing that would drive me completely bananas. To me it is not frivolous at all.

I do consider myself relatively sane and healthy, but if I am going to be honest, I'll have to pretend I'm an American by using the first amendment and threatening to use the second if the ATS gang comes down too hard on me.

Were I in the Forces up here in Canada I would have to be subjected to endless repetitions of the birthing cries of the pregnant octopus that the Scottish people bequeathed to the world (seriously, WHY OH WHY, Scotland ??) I am auditory rather than visually predominant, and since birth the bagpipes have in my opinion squinched and screeched and squealed like a dentist's drill on my discombobulating brain, and I would liken that vibratory shock torture to be the equivalent of having one's teeth locked onto a live electric fence. I mean no offense to the Scots or to those who truly love the sound of the dreaded thing that has no b-flat. It is the main reason I never enlisted. Up here they play those things constantly for any pretense , even many police corps play them, and the cursed television and radio press always include a sound clip in military stories. I was considering joining the medical arm in some capacity, but never as an armed combatant. It would have been easier to enlist in the ROTC and have my bills paid for rather than go out on my own, but I just could not. Officers have too many ceremonies and mess things to attend for me to just shrug off that sound, though I did try to overcome it without success when I dated a military guy for a while. I married someone in the RCMP and they too seem to think it necessary to impose that horrific wailing sound on all of us. Whatever happened to the noble brass instruments?

* I do love oatmeal and I thank Scotland for that.

a reply to: intrepid

As a somewhat long term member here I don't have an interest in being rude - just stating what I see. And it sounds like your dad choose the camaraderie, the ships and the faraway lands over his child. I don't know - I have a wild hair up my ass after talking to Marine buddies and listening to them complain about everything - while they did squat earlier in life to prepare themselves (but yeah they got guns, ATVs, and child support - they got toys and bad relationships to show for). And they pine for yesterday like the High School quarterback - I don't feel bad anymore. They had is easy in the military, we all did, and the real world kicked their ass (and could kick mine too at any misstep - which I don't plan to make).

a reply to: Jason88

Dear Jason, I "served" about 7 years. The quotes are because some of it was in Amsterdam, and somewhat hazy.
These were the best years of my life, and I know that others have an experience that couldn't possibly be more different than mine. To those that have served, and sacrificed, and have given all, I can only feel ashamed, and grateful.
I know the great fortune that I have received, and I know the great price that others have paid.

a reply to: Jason88

You know, this is a thread I wish I didn't create. I was in a bad mood and went ice cold.

I'm not apologizing though since I've worn both hats, but it's not so black and white either...