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To shoot or not to shoot? One California homeowners fate is being decided.

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posted on Jul, 26 2014 @ 12:04 AM
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a reply to: Sremmos80

So you would advocate letting them go, so they can go and do this to someone else or return and exact a warped sense of revenge against this man? These 2 were suspect in breaking into the victims home before, they knew where a safe was, and were intent on breaking into it. So if they ran, and survived, what would have been the actions if they were able to get away and then return? Chances are they would have looked for the weapon and turned it on the victim.

While 2 wrongs do not make a right, at the same time I can not feel sorry for either of the suspects. This seems to be a more common occurance, person breaks into a persons home and the victim, homeowner, picks up a deadly weapon and kills the person who broke in, or as they were trying to run away. These 2 suspects did not try to flee, they did not try to escape when he walked in on them, they beat him bad enough to break a bone. So now who is far more guilty, the 2 suspects who broke into the home of an elderly man, breaking his collar bone, or the elderly man picking up a firearm and using it? I would say the greater of the wrongs lays with the suspects.




posted on Jul, 26 2014 @ 12:16 AM
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.....nvm
edit on 26-7-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2014 @ 12:17 AM
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a reply to: sdcigarpig

No, I want them arrested and put in front of a judge to get sentenced for what they did. Where do you me advocating letting them go to continue to commit crimes from me saying this lady didn't deserve to die?
You say chances are they return, I say chances are they don't. Both our chances have equal % as they are both hypothetical. And while I will agree with the possibility of them being the previous burglars, we can't say that for a fact.

The cops caught the one guy that ran and got away, so why wouldn't they have caught the girl too if she didn't get shot? And at that point she would of had to answer up to her actions including the violence on the man.



posted on Jul, 26 2014 @ 01:17 AM
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This video from this thread is no longer available.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

It shows cops in Long Beach executing a man by public firing squad, on the beach. They shot him in the back, from land, and in the front, by sea. There were dozens of bullets fired, and you could watch the slender man's frame vibrate with each hit.

Here is a brief description of the words I remember from the tape:

Ice cubes tinkling, music and laughter and general party chit chat. Ring of killer cops has set up about 60-100 feet from car of man suspected of theft. Woman asks why the cops don't come closer to the man, who is sitting in white compact car, which car appears to be parked perfectly. Man explains that the killer cops 'don't want to be in crossfire'. A minute or so later, man emerges from car, slender, unarmed, carrying nothing, wearing short sleeved white shirt. Looks behind him, and walks toward boardwalk, about 50 feet from beach. A voice remarks 'oh, he's a pretty one….'. As man reaches beach stairs, shots are fired as killer cop canine is called off, now only a few feet from the suspect. Some gasps, and a slight reduction of merriment as shots fill the air. 'Oh, they're shooting rubber bullets'. Different voice, says: 'Yeah, those hurt, don't they?' in musical tone. Man goes down like a ton of bricks, on boardwalk steps, and is propelled forward to the beach by the kinetic energy of the bullets. Shots continue into prone man's flesh. Killer cops (at least a dozen) arrive and toss dying man on his back, and roughly handcuff hands behind corpse's back. Merriment subsides as solemnity of situation manifests itself. End of tape.

He was, allegedly, under suspicion of stealing something. He simply got out of his car and walked away. He was run down with a fusillade of bullets, many of them in his back. The killer cop canine was inches from dragging him down, yet was called off, and the bullets fell like rain.

Revelers on a upper story balcony videotaped the whole thing, unbeknownst to the killer cops. Having surrendered the tape, I assume someone got some payola, courtesy of killer cops. It was a surreal tape. You could hear ice cubes tinkling in sangria glasses, and there was still merriment as the (assumed) 'rubber bullets' hit the man. When the killer cop squad reached the man, they tossed his dead body into handcuffs. None of the killer cops offered medical assistance.

I hope the partiers choke on the blood money they got for the tape, which is copyrighted by a Mr. Sadowsky, according to YT, and therefore we are not allowed to watch it anymore. You see how easy it is to kill, when you are a killer cop? It will be interesting to see what happens to these killer cops, condom escapees, the fugitive seed, from messy back door sex. Maybe dribblers, from oral, who can say?

# 234
edit on 26-7-2014 by TheWhiteKnight because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2014 @ 01:47 AM
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They attacked him and did not are if they killed him.

Then they ran.

Legally it's murder.

Ethically I would not say Guilty if I was on the Jury.



posted on Jul, 26 2014 @ 01:49 AM
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originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: sdcigarpig

No, I want them arrested and put in front of a judge to get sentenced for what they did. Where do you me advocating letting them go to continue to commit crimes from me saying this lady didn't deserve to die?
You say chances are they return, I say chances are they don't. Both our chances have equal % as they are both hypothetical. And while I will agree with the possibility of them being the previous burglars, we can't say that for a fact.

The cops caught the one guy that ran and got away, so why wouldn't they have caught the girl too if she didn't get shot? And at that point she would of had to answer up to her actions including the violence on the man.


Possibly they caught the guy off ID'ing the dead girl. How did they track him down?



posted on Jul, 26 2014 @ 01:59 AM
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Once they fled you can no longer claim to be "in fear of your life", and you lose your self defense argument. There is a very fine line between actual self defense, and it turning into vigilante justice or revenge. In many states you have to be in fear. You cannot be in fear of someone that is fleeing from you.



posted on Jul, 26 2014 @ 02:05 AM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Possibly, even if they did it that way I wouldn't agree the woman deserved to die if that is what you are getting at.
Think it is also possible that they went off the description from what the man gave and did some police work to track him down.



posted on Jul, 26 2014 @ 02:11 AM
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a reply to: sdcigarpig
My god..still not getting it..THEY WERE NO LONGER A THREAT..SHOT IN THE BACK..RUNNING AWAY



posted on Jul, 26 2014 @ 02:36 AM
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a reply to: TheWhiteKnight

The video is available at liveleak. It contains graphic content so I am not going to link it here.

Here is the rest of the story and it does not jive with your source so people will need to decide for themselves.

Long Beach Police Shooting of Unarmed Man Captured on Video


Long Beach cops say they're the ones who opened fire from the side as the man got to the bottom of the stairs. They started shooting after mistaking bean bag rounds, shot from sheriff's officers behind the man, as hostile gunfire, a spokeswoman for the Long Beach department told us.

"The officers basically believed the suspect had been involved in a shootout with deputies prior to him running down the steps," she said.



From what I am getting the LA County S.O. was behind the guys car. Long Beach PD was not present with te deputies. When the guy runs you will see LBPD officers coming from the left. The LBPD officers heard the bean bag round and thought a shootout was occurring. They engaged the man when they came across him running to the beach.

In the article it clearly shows the LBPD taking full responsibility for the incident. I dont see anything where they tried to hide what occurred.

I can give you a list of justifications and laws but I wont unless someone is curious (dont wanna derail this thread). Like I said people will need to make up their own mind with the above incident.
edit on 26-7-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2014 @ 02:43 AM
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a reply to: vonclod
At what point were they no longer a threat?
When he (Greer) had a gun?
The police say Adams had taken a gun from Greer's safe... ... ... ...
Where is the fine line between...victim in your own home...and...victor...just outside your garage door...?
How far do you think he/Greer chased them?
From the interview...it looks like he made it just past the garage door...
The alley is just at the end of the driveway.
He could not have drug her dead body...very far...
Yet - he drug it to almost where he was standing in the interview.
Would it have been more acceptable if he'd shot her in the face...?
"Don't shoot me - I'm gonna have a baby"...and keeps running?
We know, now, that it was a ploy...
Why should we think/conclude that 'fleeing' was not a ploy, as well?
...
In my opinion - he simply tried to end the terror...which had escalated.

Did you happen to notice that Adams' mother is being charged...too?

I am sincerely sorry for the lady's death.



posted on Jul, 26 2014 @ 02:56 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

There's no video of the killer cops in Long Beach on the live leak site. All wiped clean. But live leak makes it clear that it was cold blooded murder. The words of killer cops are provided by your source. Who are you going to believe? But, I am talking to a cop, so you can bet that this is a rhetorical question. I suppose Jesus will make everything all right for you, yes? Maybe so. But I am not Jesus. So I am telling you that you are lying to yourself, and to others, and to God, in your cop-appraisal.

Everything but the Sadowsky owned footage, provided by Danielle Guera, is there. I see no footage now, gone. Like tears in rain.

Maybe I don't know how to use live leak, but I cannot get their copy and paste instructions to work:

www.liveleak.com...

I watched the tape repeatedly, as much as my stomach could allow. The man had nothing on his person except his clothes, and I saw no stun gun bag being fired.

Do not even try. It was cold blooded roid rage murder. I wish I had embedded it. And it's 'jibe', not 'jive'.

Killers. Happens all the time. Killer cop Ian Birk slays artisan John T. Williams, broad daylight, for being deaf and admiring his new carving knife, while walking across street, at crosswalk, in front of Ian's killer cop car. Man killed for watering his lawn. Killer cops hit again in back when 13 year old boy turns around to face killer cops in Texas. He had a bb gun. Do you remember? What, did all these killer cops think they were in a gun battle as well?


Remember this when you buy your kid a bb gun, or a Swiss Army knife, or anything that shines.

# 235
edit on 26-7-2014 by TheWhiteKnight because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-7-2014 by TheWhiteKnight because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2014 @ 03:00 AM
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originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Possibly, even if they did it that way I wouldn't agree the woman deserved to die if that is what you are getting at.
Think it is also possible that they went off the description from what the man gave and did some police work to track him down.


The question is not did she deserve death or not, it's can I fault him for deciding she did not deserve life. I call what they did attempted murder. I would not sentence him for his actions.

For all we know letting them go results in both of them getting away and doing this to someone else and possibly killing them. The moment they attacked him like that they lost all right to life.



posted on Jul, 26 2014 @ 03:05 AM
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a reply to: WanDash
I would conclude myself that the threat was not imminent when those 2 sh$tbags ran away. .does that not seem to make sense?
When someone is running away from you how are they an imminent threat? Now if they were running at him and thats something completely different and justifiable. I would have less issue if they were shot inside the home at least..but running away..cmon?



posted on Jul, 26 2014 @ 03:07 AM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04


For all we know letting them go results in both of them getting away and doing this to someone else and possibly killing them. The moment they attacked him like that they lost all right to life.


Ooooooo noooooo.. bad bad bad idea.

Using the possible commission of a future crime angle opens up Pandora's box. That is not a slippery slope argument. That position is taking a full run and hurling yourself off the cliff.

Justification for the use of deadly force based on something that did not happen is like saying the Spanish Inquisitions was just tough love for heretics.
edit on 26-7-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2014 @ 03:15 AM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04


For all we know letting them go results in both of them getting away and doing this to someone else and possibly killing them. The moment they attacked him like that they lost all right to life.


Ooooooo noooooo.. bad bad bad idea.

Using the possible commission of a future crime angle opens up Pandora's box. That is not a slippery slope argument. That position is taking a full run and hurling yourself off the cliff.

Justification for the use of deadly force based on something that did not happen is like saying the Spanish Inquisitions was just tough love for heretics.

Was not my point to use it as justification. It was to counter his hypothetical of if he did not shoot both would have been caught. I was simply showing there are many possibilities of how things could have played out, including them killing their next victim. Perhaps that was not clear. Here is his earlier comment.

The cops caught the one guy that ran and got away, so why wouldn't they have caught the girl too if she didn't get shot?

I actually have no justification per se. Justify is to make right, I am not trying to show his action was "right", only that I can not label it "wrong". In fact I earlier stated legally he broke the law, but ethically I could not convict him, based on what they actually did to him.
edit on 26-7-2014 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2014 @ 03:19 AM
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Im have little sympathy for the burglars believe me, the 2 sh#tbags made a bad choice, so did the old fella, his life is pretty messed up now..I do have sympathy for him and what he went through but he was legaly wrong and it would seem based on his interview im not convinced he was scared at that point..pissed off maybee. Actualy I shouldnt say that he wasn't scared..a whole mix of emotions but mostly pissed..I would be.
edit on 26-7-2014 by vonclod because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2014 @ 05:55 AM
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originally posted by: nrd101
it was cold blooded murder how many times do I have to say it...


the old man did not have cold blood, his blood was hot from
the passion of the emotions of terror and pain.



posted on Jul, 26 2014 @ 07:14 AM
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a reply to: vonclod
And what you are not getting is that this was not the first time for either suspect. Both of them had done this before, breaking into someone house and stealing from them, probably I would believe that the lack of concern for the victim would lead me to believe that they have committed assault and battery on a person as well.

And that beating could have killed the victim. That is attempted murder right there, this was not a young person that they beat, but an elderly man, who is in his 80’s. He is not young, he is not like them in the best of health. He is an elderly man, he is the victim, they committed an act of violence against him. They were trying to steal his stuff. They were intending to rob this man, they did not even try to give him assistance while he lay on the floor from the beating that they gave him. The only thing that they did not anticipate is that he was coherent enough to not be a victim.



posted on Jul, 26 2014 @ 07:26 AM
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a reply to: Sremmos80
Simple answer, this happened in the state of California. They get picked up, as they did not steal anything, they get arranged and then are let out on bail, or bond, and now they are back on the street. The jails and prisons in California are a bit over populated, so it is probation for the 2 suspects.
And they have committed similar crimes in the past, so this is not their first time doing such.
So when do they get punished for their actions?

The reality is that the penal system no longer works as a deterrence, it no longer punishes as it should, and the cops are slow to respond or to take action. As long as no one was hurt, the chances that the police show up, go way down. And where was the concern for the victim. They did lay hands on him, they did beat him, they did break bones on him, they did leave him in pain on the floor. There was no concern or compassion that they showed for him. The fact that like animals the preyed on the elderly, shows more about them, where he actually called the authorities. He called the cops, he let them know what he did, they did no such thing.



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