I am well aware of the history and culture of most of the mesoamerican Indians. Indeed, cultures of these civilizations were significantly different from that of the European explorers (invaders?)

However, does that justify the fact that from the beginning the aim of the Cabal was to wipe out the peoples who first lived in these new lands?

However, this current arguement is a diversion from the main point of this thread: personal knowledge relating to a shadow society.

My interest in this topic what happened to my father. In 1961, he married my mother, a full blood Cherokee Indian. Immediately prior to this event, he left the Masonic Lodge, under rather bad conditions.

You assume that he was asked to leave for some moral failing on his part. (The thing about the dues is a non-issue, he was more than able to pay any dues).

The only moral failings I can see in my father, that could possibly be interpretted by his actions, would be that he married a non-caucasian woman.

With that in mind, I would ask if it is truly my father with moral failings, or moral failings associated with the Masons?

Interesting you think it is the cabal that had that done to the Indians, I think that would be an interesting topic to post on the boards (Not debate for our upcomming debate because I don't deal in the "REALLY CONSPIRATORIAL" that's just too much conjecture.)

But it would be fun to throw around the ideas in general.

my uncle is an independantly wealthy stockbroker, who bears a masonic ring and many masonic artifacts. he would not answer any of my questions about the society everytime i attempted to ask.

Well Dragonrider, on topic, just ask him why he had a falling out with Masonry before making the assumption because I'm not so certain there is ANY reason he'd have been asked to leave lodge.

If he did become a Master Mason he would have sworn to several specific things, that maybe he did not attend to that wouldn't seem immoral.

For instance he may have knowingly struck a brother master mason. There may have been no reason other than that master mason called him a "bastard" or something but you can't do that either way. Only to protect yourself, family or property.

Not your pride.

So he might have just broken the harmony of the lodge or such, maybe he swore a few times too many in lodge.

It can be numerous issues not really related to anything.

Maybe you are mistaken about his being requested to leave (though I leave you to decide that).

And it COULD be the issue with who he was marrying, but it wouldn't be Freemasonry doing that.

It would have been a brother in the lodge who himself is less deserving of being a mason, but whom others listen to and no one really knew what was going on.

I nor you can truly say, but if you could say "I asked and he wouldn't tell me why" then that would be enough information and "speculations" can commence.

Until then we just don't know.

But yeah if you'd like to know not all Masons are "upstanding individuals" nor are they always fair.

After all, in a lodge it takes only one black ball//cube to deny a petition, so brothers are asked to vote only for the benifit of the craft.

But this does not mean that a jealous neighbor or such did not black ball//cube someone just for his own personal goals. Even when the person may be a better man than the brother black balling//cubing.

But something I should stress more, rather than trying to "defend" the craft, is to point out that the actions of the brethren can not always be held accountable to the craft.

Because if what the craft teaches is followed to the nth degree, this world would be a utopia.

However nothing always works out perfectly, so there are faults at time.

It would be a shame to think that your father was asked out because of whom he chose to marry, I think it's highly unlikely, unless you were in an extreme part of the south.

And there it would be the shame of the brethren, not the craft that caused such an event.

Yes I have met members

as a matter of fact now that I recall I have dined with a few and been to bed with a couple of them, but I never felt relaxed enough to sleep
GOD the memories

Tutankamen let me tell you a few things.

I was once "Freemason" on @forumz, a horrible place where all they do is talk about immorality doing drugs and how great their sex lives are or aren't, and how they are more awesome because they are gays and so on.

I really hate it when people talk about that, so while this is a small hint that you did, I still don't like it and it would be nice if you refrained in the future from ever mentioning your sex life (if that was what you were hinting at, maybe you meant you camped with them or something), ever.

Because I can become really mean when it is well out of place, if it is part of a discussion of sex than it is more ok to discuss, however this isn't a forums that is in need of more than one thread about sex. Wherever that thread went.

Thank you.

Yeah yeah yeah.....your both right.


Now shut up. and move on.

Geez.


Some people really like to argue there points huh???


Abe

Originally posted by TheWanderer
Tutankamen let me tell you a few things.

I was once "Freemason"
Because I can become really mean when it is well out of place, if it is part of a discussion of sex than it is more ok to discuss, however this isn't a forums that is in need of more than one thread about sex. Wherever that thread went.

Thank you.

Originally posted by TheWanderer
Tutankamen let me tell you a few things.

I was once "Freemason"
Because I can become really mean when it is well out of place, if it is part of a discussion of sex than it is more ok to discuss, however this isn't a forums that is in need of more than one thread about sex. Wherever that thread went.

Thank you.

are all freemasons idiots or just you?
threatening me "I can become really mean", do you have any idea with whom you are dealing with?
it has nothing to do with sex you clown quit projecting your base instincts!


bin Laden is in bed with the CIA
Chenny is in bed with Haliburton
Wolfowitz is in bed with Bush
Franc is in bed with Karl Marx
Martha Stuart is in bed Alone

do get yet clown?

But yeah if you'd like to know not all Masons are "upstanding individuals" nor are they always fair. Posted by Wonderer

No kidding...

Originally posted by TheWanderer
Tutankamen let me tell you a few things.

I was once "Freemason" on @forumz, a horrible place where all they do is talk about immorality doing drugs and how great their sex lives are or aren't, and how they are more awesome because they are gays and so on.

I really hate it when people talk about that, so while this is a small hint that you did, I still don't like it and it would be nice if you refrained in the future from ever mentioning your sex life (if that was what you were hinting at, maybe you meant you camped with them or something), ever.

Because I can become really mean when it is well out of place, if it is part of a discussion of sex than it is more ok to discuss, however this isn't a forums that is in need of more than one thread about sex. Wherever that thread went.

Thank you.

Notice what I put in bold tutankamen.
I guess it's just your style to INAPPROPRIATELY misquote people purposefully.

Why if this were a more publica arena I'd see you in court for defamation.

man the 2 of you fight like your siblings it is disturbing, ok no offence to Dr or FM but your both right in some respects.

DR your right the british colonists are the biggest genocidle maniacs that ever lived period. they killed more people expanding the british empire then the Romans did(there were less people when the romans conquered.

FM you are right in regards to DR's father leaving the masons in one aspect and only one, he wouldnt of been kicked out beacause DR's mother is Cherokee Indian.

My father and my Grndfather were both masons and i am a legacy, I havent joined the masons i went another way and joined the Buffs, neather my father or my Grand father ever talked about Masonry, but i know my father is a 31st degree and all he said about masonry to me is this.
'If you want to be a mason then be a mason if you think that you can be honrable and stay inside the law your entire life then go join, if you want a close brotherhood with people then join, if you feel that you dont nned the brotherhood or being in a "secret society" isnt your thing then dont join, the only thing you will miss out on is the friendships that you get, nothing more'
Personaly i think my old man is a bit of a mental and i know when he is hiding something, when he said this i could tell he wanted to say more but wasnt gona volunter it. Later that day he took me aside and said if you want to join a place like the masons join the Buffs beacause there you wont regret it. He was right Buffs i havent regretted one bit i have great friends even though i am the youngest member in NZ.

Like i said i mean no disrespect to eather DR or Fm this is just my opinion and my view.

I've researched about as much as you can on freemason's short of joining (which I might, if there were much of any around these parts,) and I think the whole thing to realize there is that as a group, they are not.....unwholesome. Rather, they are a place where those of a certain status and with certain ideas can meet others of like mind. Perhaps by now most if not all higher ups are of that sort, but i doubt it. I dont think freemasonry's secret is sinister. I think perhaps it might be something wonderful....but I doubt even those who know it, if any do, truly understand it. But my point is, you say that because some men of questionable honor are mansons, therefore freemasonry is evil. I am American, and most American's are worthless people who don't think for themselves. Does that mean that all are? No, it does not. Remember, freemasonry has very loose standards as to who they accept. And what better forum for recruiting could you have than a secret society that most people just think throws the odd dinner party?

In my neck of the woods you would have seen some of these in the past couple of months:

* an Egyptian Muslim and an Israeli tearfully embracing each other as brothers
* $100k in medical research grants and scholarships
* great standard of ritual work (although ennui does set in eventually)
* sumptuous banquet dining for about 20% of restaurant price

AND

* the usual squabbles, gripes and concerns for the future that any voluntary organisation has.

The secrets are freely available in bookstores. The fellowship and character building isn't.

Originally posted by saturnine_sweet
... I am American, and most American's are worthless people who don't think for themselves. Does that mean that all are? No, it does not.
...

Huh? So people ("most American's"? (grammaticaly incorrect BTW) who don't "think for themselves" (a huge generalization...based on what exactly?) makes a human "worthless"? A lot of people who DO think for themselves are pretty worthless...i.e. a lot of really bad criminals. Who's more "worthless": an insane dictator or the "followers" in forced submission?

You also seem to imply that this only occurs in America..."ugly American" *sigh*...Get out more. Ugly people are everywhere. Don't feed into that myth that America has a lock on stupidity. We're a young country after all...neophytes really. China/Russia/Iran/North Korea: this is going to be a lot of fun right? But Ma and Pa Kettle are worthless...

More seriously though, if you do really think for yourself, then why would you join a secretive group where you would take part in a lot of ritualized group activity? NOt that that's always a bad thing. But aren't you wary of a group that you have to join before getting the scoop? I'm not saying merely joining a group means that you don't -think for yourself-. Just questions.

On another note: Wow. That's a lot of Banned Member-ing and I see it's all over. More to follow I suspect. Just call me Nostrodamus Sherlock. He's wily and prolific and pretty darned funny. Check out the "shape of the universe" thread in the space forum. It's pretty priceless. Not that I condone this sort of senselessness or horrible grammar or elementary hacktivity.

[edit on 24-1-2006 by 2nd Hand Thoughts]


[edit on 24-1-2006 by 2nd Hand Thoughts]

Illuminati member met. I suspected as much, thats why I looked. Nothing I've read has any substance regarding this chimerical cabal. I know about Weishaupt and the group he set up, but the modern day conjecture that has been so abundant is bereft of any real evidence.
It is either a good case for the Illuminati's ability to remain secret, which if true is unique among secret societies, or the whole thing is gossip used to sell books. I favour the gossip explanation, since the other one is just fearmongers spreading tales straight from their own imaginations. If I am wrong someone show me.
Please.
And if any Illuminati are reading this, bravo, you have won my admiration for actually succeeding in keeping a secret. Something that is rarely done nowadays.
And btw, the bickering I just skimmed through is not flattering at all. It shows that even if you have something valuable to say, how you do so is critical to being accepted as credible.
The accusations and defamatory comments towards masons is purely spite driven. Those comments are true for all people, some more than others.
Re: the RCC and masons, John Paul II, the recently deceased pope, officially allowed Catholics to be Masons. It was forbidden till then. I ahve read that over 120 worked in the Vatican before his time anyway though.

They are not much different than your local Elks, Lions, Kiwanis, Oddfellows, Rotary, Optimists, Forresters, etc.
If the oath is what makes you shake in your boots, just remember what mortgage means.

mort = death
gage = pledge.

So there you have it, the homeowners of the world are all members of a sect who have sworn a blood oath. Maybe we should worry about them.

At least we can say with some certainty that they exist, which is more than anyone has ever been able to say on this site since day one about the Illuminati.
The Illuminati flame is flickering, and nearly out.

My buddy told me a story about his encounter with a "secret society" perhaps the Illuminati? It all starts out when he parks his car in a mall garage and is ready to watch a movie (he is meeting a friend at the movie theatre) As he parks his car he notices some very odd characters. The first one he noticed was a fat guy in a suit. This fat guy in the suit was wearing a button up shirt and according to him seemed like he was checking his buttons, odd he thought? The fat guy kept doing it and he noticed that this guy was wearing a wire!

Next he sees a big black guy, looks like an army type, very muscular type come out of a white van walking towards the fat guy in the suit. The last character was the most strange, a skinny tall man in a plaid shirt with glasses, he seemed to be the one giving orders to these guys. As all this is going on my friend is watching them from inside the car.

Soon after the tall guy with glasses lets call him (boss) walks up to my buddies car from behind because he notices my friend has been watching them! My buddy is almost pissing his pants at this point and continues to look forward pretending he didnt see anything. Boss walks up to the car and looks at my friend for about 10 seconds staring straight at him about 10 feet from behind the car, my friend is scared straight. I guess boss did this to let my friend know that he didnt see anything and if he mentioned this to anyone he would cause trouble for him. Boss walked away and commanded the other two guys to follow him to the mall. As they walked away, my friend went closer to inspect the van and noticed the license plate read exactly this: RARA322!! He thought maybe Ra stood for Ra the egyptian god and 322 I guess signifies the society? (sorry I dont know too much about the illumanti) I am just telling you what he told me.... this happened by the way in Southern California at the Grove Mall.

-Rob