Has anyone ever met anyone who was a member of the illuminati or other society?

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posted on Aug, 30 2010 @ 01:11 AM
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Originally posted by Edward-Alexander
I'm a member from birth, and have been part of many orders and societies, including involvement with the so called "Illuminati".



Can you provide proof of this? How can we tell if your making up a story?

Don't you need to be one of the so called elites to join the iluminati?

Also how can you be sure its not some spin off group. Theres always that chance of a group of people wanting the same or similar goals and calling themselves by the name of an organization just to feel like they were the originals or continueing their plans.




posted on Aug, 30 2010 @ 02:47 PM
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i think ive met members of satanism and illuminati before.. ... you can tell by the look in their eyes. their souls are infested with demons... its quite sad, really....



posted on Aug, 30 2010 @ 11:28 PM
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Originally posted by demonbuster
i think ive met members of satanism and illuminati before.. ... you can tell by the look in their eyes. their souls are infested with demons... its quite sad, really....


the illuminati is more selective about their members. They wont let in any common joe shmos in.

chances are you met a satanist. true hardcore satanists never look happy. always tormented.

you also tend to get some pretend satanists that do it as a form of roleplaying. often times because it gives alot of sexual energy....no i'm not kidding i known a few people like that. plus i read a book on the matter



posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 12:38 AM
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I have never met a mason in my life
although i did live in a small town called madoc ontario
where there is a mason lodge, which nobody in the town seems to even recognize that it exists. most dont have a clue what it is. and you never hear about them in local media such as newspapers, they have there meetings everythings for the most part covered, i took a peak in one time there was pictures on the wall, a front office room i guess
and two different doors that were closed.
but i also have met the daughter of a mason, she was the adopted daughter of a certain former president of capital records in canada
but i believe the masonry came about on her biological side her grandfather was a Master Mason and she has pretty much asured me since ive known her that they are up to no good lmfao
she refuses to watch t.v. never had cable. shes quite the conspiracist herself.



posted on Sep, 3 2010 @ 03:01 PM
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You don't go to them, they come to you.

It's like business: unless you are recommended by someone who's trusted, they will not want to discuss secret societies and the like.

If you deal with men of any significance then you probably unknowingly meet a few regularly. It's likely that you aren't aware their secret affiliations because you aren't trustworthy enough.

Your best bet is just to know what they know.



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 04:43 AM
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Greetings and Salutations. I have read this thread with interest and feel that I must make a few comments regarding both the RAOB and the Freemasons. First of all, I am a 4th Degree (Roll of Honour) member of the RAOB and a Past Grand Primo. It has been said that the RAOB derived from actors and stage hands who met in London in the early 1800's. This probably was the case, however I personally believe that the formation of a Grand Lodge simply marked a time when existing Lodges decided to join together and be governed by one body. Lodges must have existed prior to this otherwise a Grand Lodge could not have been formed. Rituals, minutes etc were probably committed to memory as most people in those days were not educated enough to be able to write them down. Therefore it is impossible to say when the RAOB was actually formed. The same could be said about Freemasonry.
I am fortunate enough to be an active Freemason. I am a Past Master in the Craft and belong to many other Orders in Freemasonry as well. Believe me, there are many things to be learned beyond the Craft. Being a Master Mason is not the end of it and one hasn't completed pure Freemasonry until the Degree of RAC has been obtained. I am also a PZ of the RAC, Past Master of Mark, Member of Mariners, Past Sovereign of Red Cross of Constantine, Member of OSM, Member of the Allied Masonic Degrees, Past MW Sovereign of Rose Croix and a 30th Degree member.
From my own understanding of both Fraternities, I can find no relationship to music as being the foundation of either Order. Music is however, an important part of both. I have personally enjoyed my membership of both Orders. I have met many men (and women) from all over the world, and once we have established our membership to each other, we are received with open arms. Both Orders are based on Brotherly Love and Good Fellowship. Being Charitable is one of the main common principles of both. There is a little slogan which i have seen around which simply says, 2B1-ASK1 This can apply to both the RAOB or the Freemasons.
Buffaloes and Masons can work together very well. Both Orders are similar in their beliefs but obtain the same results by using different methods. Take care everyone.



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 05:37 AM
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Originally posted by jeasahtheseer
reply to post by clarity jane
 


There is no "boss" of freemasonry, sorry to break it to you. I am a prince hall mason and I know many other masons that are ph's and regular masons and there is no such thing as a leader of freemasonry, or boss as you put it.


The Masonic King of Kings

Whether or not a Masonic "King of Kings (i.e., the Messianic King a/k/a the King of Scotland)" exists or not, it is certainly the case that many Masons "believe" that he does exist, which would be very unsrprising in a hierarchical esoteric organisation.

According to the Masonic authors Knight and Lomas. the term "Hiram Abiff" can be translated as Hiram = King and Abiff = Secret. Just because a person does not personally believe that such a "secret king" exists, it does not mean that there is no such a person. The existence of a "secret" king would by necessity be a "secret," therefore no Freemason can guarantee that such a person does not exist; they can only clam that they do not know of such a person or that they have never met him.

It does seems to me that American Masonry is held somewhat in comtempt by the Scottish Masons. I am Scottish myself, and by the term "Scottish Masons" I refer to the Masons in Scotland, not to the Scottish rite Masons in the US. Around a third of US Masons are anyway also Jesters and/or Shriners, which just seems to be an excuse to get drunk and have sex with prostitutes; the Scottish Masons in comparison seem to take their esoteric society much more seriously. I wouldn't really consider the opinion of an American (Prince Hall) Mason on the non existence of the International Grand Master of Masters to be of any value.

Although it is frequently denied, the Scottish Masons essentially believe that they are the modern "Knight's Templars" and even dress up as Knight's Templars in full regelia. Their "secret king" is thus essentially the "King of Scotland" and the Messiah of the Templar Army. The "Prince Hall" Masons are anyway not Scottish; they are mostly African Americans with their own private club, which although recognised by the United Grand Lodge of England, it is an entirely separate organisation which "does" have it's own Grand Master

For a Freemason to claim that he has no master or leader, is as patently ridiculous as a slave who believes that he is on equal footing with his master and that he is not a slave.

"For every slave a master, and for every master a slave. Neither slave nor master be."

Although I have argued in another essay here that many Freemasons are Illuminists, they would seem to be the "good guys" as far as I am concerned, however the Scottish Masons consider themselves to be Christian Knights and where would a Christian be without a Christ? However the "Christ (Messiah / King)" of the Scottish Masons is a living person, and when dies there will be another, and another....until the End of Religion.

Lux
The End of Religion. No gods. No masters.
Blasphemy, Heresy, War, Revolution, etc.

edit on 15-2-2011 by Lucifer777 because: mis-spelling-itis

edit on 15-2-2011 by Lucifer777 because: addition to text
edit on 15-2-2011 by Lucifer777 because: mis-spelling-itis



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 05:59 AM
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reply to post by Oisin
 





I knew a msaon once, he was a perfectly normal guy though, and didn't make it sound like there were any real secrets going on except in terms of business deals and that sort of thing. I believed him, maybe I was wrong.....


No you are not wrong. I have a life long friend who is an active high ranking Mason. HE is the one who has been warning me about NWO for years..

There is no way this guy would be an active in a group that is behind the NWO.

However The "NWO Elites" do exist and part of their "master plan" is infiltration of every group with power and they have certainly done so.

You really want to know who these people are????

I will tell you who a couple of them are, Rhodes Scholar, former President Bill Clinton. He was instrumental in collapsing the US economy and now Obama (Ford Foundation) is placing three of Clinton's Key men into position to further collapse the Economy.

These are Gene Sperling to head of the National Economic Council, William Daley as Chief of Staff. And to top it off, General Electric CEO Jeffery Immelt was tapped to lead a newly created Council on Jobs and Competitiveness. These are three of the men behind NAFTA the North American Free Trade Agreement, the WTO World Trade Organization, China’s entry into the World Trade Organization, and repealing the Glass-Steagall Act, "Many observers credit the act’s repeal with causing the financial crisis that brought the economy to its knees. "


Clinton - World Trade Organization, NAFTA, Formation of Mega Banks, "Most favored Nation Status" - China

1995 World Trade Organization Agreement on Ag and 1996 Freedom to Farm Act, both written by VP of Cargill Dan Amstutz. Amstutz later joined Sachs Goldman.


Today's global food crisis shows "we all blew it, including me when I was president," by treating food crops as commodities instead of as a vital right of the world's poor, Bill Clinton told a U.N. gathering on Thursday. UNITED NATIONS, Oct. 23, 2008



President Bill Clinton, now the UN Special Envoy to Haiti, publicly apologized last month for forcing Haiti to drop tariffs on imported, subsidized US rice during his time in office. The policy wiped out Haitian rice farming and seriously damaged Haiti’s ability to be self-sufficient. www.democracynow.org...


Consolidation of Mega Banks causing AIG Bailout and Foreclosuregate: Quick list of Banking laws


After the Great Depression, several laws were put in place to prevent another depression. The 1933 and 1934 Security and Exchange laws, The McFadden Act of 1927, The Glass-Steagall Act or Banking Act of 1933. Also Bank Holding Company Act of 1956.

Clinton's laws Negating above: Riegle-Neal Interstate Banking and Branching Efficiency Act of 1994 and Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act of 1999

More pro-banking Clinton laws:
Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation Improvement Act of 1991:Allowed big banks to gobble up smaller banks more easily.

Housing and Community Development Act of 1992 and RTC Completion Act - Housing and business loans to minorities.

Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 200 - left CDSs unregulated and set up AIG bailout and Foreclosuregate.


Clinton - preparing for insurrection and conversion into a collectivist society.

So Where Do Anti-Hoarding Laws Come In?

These ideas of anti-hoarding legislation may have stemmed from two areas of confusion:

First is from Executive Orders in place dating back to 1939 which Clinton has grouped together under one order, EO #12919 released on June 6, 1994. The following EOs all fall under EO#12919:

10995--Federal seizure of all communications media in the US;
10997--Federal seizure of all electric power, fuels, minerals, public and private;
10998--Federal seizure of all food supplies and resources, public and private and all farms and equipment;
10999--Federal seizure of all means of transportation, including cars, trucks, or vehicles of any kind and total control over all highways, seaports and water ways;
11000--Federal seizure of American people for work forces under federal supervision, including the splitting up of families if the government so desires;
11001--Federal seizure of all health, education and welfare facilities, both public and private;
11002--Empowers the Postmaster General to register every single person in the US
11003--Federal seizure of all airports and aircraft;
11004--Federal seizure of all housing and finances and authority to establish forced relocation. Authority to designate areas to be abandoned as "unsafe," establish new locations for populations, relocate communities, build new housing with public funds;
11005--Seizure of all railroads, inland waterways and storage facilities, both public and private;
11051--Provides FEMA complete authorization to put above orders into effect in times of increased international tension of economic or financial crisis (FEMA will be in control incase of "National Emergency").

These EOs are not aimed at anti-hoarding but rather at seizure or confiscation of items... www.millennium-ark.net...



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 06:06 AM
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reply to post by crimvelvet
 


Here is information on the Rhodes Scholars. It is used as a method for picking out and training Fabian Socialists to take key positions in places of power throughout the world. Ford Foundation and Carnegie Endowment Fund are also part of the training program.


Cecil Rhodes and the Rhodes Scholarships

Cecil Rhodes (1853-1902, South African financier, British statesman and industrialist, who wanted to make Africa a "British dominion from the Cape to Cairo"), with the financial support of Nathaniel Mayer Rothschild (1840-1915) and Alfred Beit, was able to control the diamond mines of South Africa with his De Beers Consolidated Mines Ltd., by buying out the French Diamond Co. and then merging with the Barnato Diamond Mining Company. He eventually controlled the production of diamonds throughout the world. His Consolidated Gold Fields was also a prosperous gold mining operation. He made $5 million annually [a huge sum in those days --ed].

In 1877, while still studying at Oxford (it took him 8 years because of having to run the diamond mines), he wrote the first of seven wills, in which each became a separate and legally binding document. It called for the establishment of:

"...a secret society with but one object -- the furtherance of the British Empire and the bringing of the whole uncivilized world under British rule, for the recovery of the United States, (and) for ... making the Anglo-Saxon race but one Empire."

Frank Aydelotte, a founding member of the Council on Foreign Relations and the American Secretary to the Rhodes Trustees, wrote in his book, American Rhodes Scholarships:

"In his first will Rhodes states his aim still more specifically: 'The extension of British rule throughout the world ... the foundation of so great a power as to hereafter render wars impossible and promote the interests of humanity'."

When he died, his third will, drafted in 1888, called for the establishment of a trust, run by his son-in-law Lord Rosebury, a Rothschild agent, to administer his fortune. His seventh and last will, named [Nathan] Rothschild administrator of his estate, and established an educational grant known as the Rhodes Scholarships at Oxford University (which was controlled by the Fabians). The Scholarships provided a two-year program for young men, and later, women, from the United States, United Kingdom and Germany, to carry on the Illuminati conspiracy......

The Rhodes fortune, through the Rhodes Scholarship Fund, has been used to promote the concept of globalism and one-world government. Up to 1953, out of 1,372 American Rhodes Scholars, 431 had positions in teaching and educational administration, 31 were college presidents, 113 had government positions, 70 held positions in the media, and 14 were executives in foundations..... www.modernhistoryproject.org...


This gives you an idea of what the Fabian Society is who took over the Rhodes Scholarship Program:

The Fabian Socialist Society (1884- )

On October 24, 1883, in London, a group of 17 wealthy Socialists gathered to discuss a 'Fellowship of the New Life,' which was based on the writings of scholar Thomas Davidson, who hoped to start some sort of monastic order.... On November 7, 1883, this group met to discuss the establishment of an organization "whose ultimate aim shall be the reconstruction of Society in accordance with the highest moral possibilities." However, they split into two factions, and on January 4, 1884, one of the factions established a group known as the Fabian Society....

In 1887, their pamphlet Facts for Socialists maintained that any person who knew the facts of Socialism, had no other choice but to be one. It was their best selling piece of propaganda. By 1889, 6500 tracts had been distributed, and 31 speakers had delivered 721 lectures. From 1891-92, there had been 3,339 lectures given by 117 Fabian members. Their membership rose to 400 by 1892, 681 in 1894, and 881 in 1899. They had 74 local chapters in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India, South Africa, Spain, Denmark, and Germany.....

H.G. Wells was unimpressed with the [effectiveness of the] Fabian organization, and called for expansion by raising money, getting new offices, appointing a new staff, and relaxing the guidelines for membership. He wanted to initiate an all-out propaganda campaign... These ideas had been fleshed out in his 1897 short story A Story of the Days to Come, and his 1901 book, Anticipations of the Reaction to Mechanical and Scientific Progress Upon Human Life and Thought.

The character, William Clissold, had called his project for world revolution, the "open conspiracy," which meant:

"...the establishment of the economic world-state by the deliberate invitation, explicit discussion, and cooperation of the men most interested in economic organization, men chosen by their work, called to it by a natural disposition and aptitude for it, fully aware of its importance and working with the support of an increasing general understanding ...

It is not a project to overthrow existing governments by insurrectionary attacks, but to supersede them by disregard. It does not want to destroy them or alter their forms but to make them negligible by replacing their functions. It will respect them as far as it must. What is useful of them it will use; what is useless it will efface by its stronger reality; it will join issue only with what is plainly antagonistic and actively troublesome."


His plan was to be accomplished by "an intelligent minority ... without the support of the crowd and possibly in spite of its dissent..."

He further elaborated:

"The Open Conspiracy will appear first, I believe, as a conscious organization of intelligent, and in some cases wealthy men, as a movement having distinct social and political aims, confessedly ignoring most of the existing apparatus of political control, or using it only as an incidental implement in the stages, a mere movement of a number of people in a certain direction, who will presently discover, with a sort of surprise, the common object toward which they are all moving. In all sorts of ways, they will be influencing and controlling the ostensible government."

According to Wells, expansion would occur through:

"...branching and development ... (with) the Open Conspiracy as consisting of a great multitude and variety of overlapping groups, but now all organized for collective political, social and educational as well as propagandist action. They will recognize each other much more clearly than they did at first and they will have acquired a common name ...

The character of the Open Conspiracy will now be plainly displayed. It will have become a great world movement as widespread and evident as Socialism and Communism. It will largely have taken the place of these movements. It will be more, it will be a world-religion. This large, loose, assimilatory mass of groups and societies will be definitely and obviously attempting to swallow up the entire population of the world and become the new human community."


Two years later, in a published article titled "The Banker," Wells even included the international banking houses in Clissold's "open conspiracy" through a three-point program that would by-pass governments...

It is obvious that Wells either based his writings on the actual plans of the Fabian elitists, or used his knowledge of what they had already done in order to formulate a theory of what they were going to do in the future. Since he did quit, were these writings meant to be an exposé or a warning, or was he just stating facts, daring people to try and stop them? We don't know his intent, but what we do know was that he was incredibly prophetic in his description of their methods. It would indeed be a 'blueprint' for the manner in which the Illuminati would entrench itself in our governmental affairs....

www.modernhistoryproject.org...


These are some of the famous who were Rhodes Scholars:
Notice Bill Clinton is one.



* Dean Rusk (CFR, Secretary of State, 1961-69)
* Walt Whitman Rostow (Special Assistant for National Security Affairs, 1966-69)
* Harlan Cleveland (Assistant Secretary of State for International Organization Affairs in the Kennedy administration, Ambassador to NATO under Presidents Johnson and Nixon)
* Nicholas Katzenbach (CFR, U.S. Attorney General, 1965-66)

* Sen. James William Fulbright (Arkansas, 1945-74)
* Sen. Frank Church (Idaho, 1956-81)
* Sen. Bill Bradley (New Jersey, 1979-97)
* Sen. David Boren (Oklahoma, 1979-94, CFR)
* Sen. Richard D. Lugar (Indiana, 1976-)
* Sen. Larry Pressler (South Dakota, 1979-97, CFR, Phi-Beta-Kappa)
* Sen. Paul Sarbanes (Maryland, 1977-)
* Rep. Elliot H. Levitas (GA, 1975-85)
* Rep. Carl Albert (OH, 1947-77, Speaker of the House from 1971-77)
* Rep. John Brademas (IN, 1959-81, later New York University President)
* Gov. Bill Clinton (Arkansas, 1979-81, 1983-92; President, 1993-2001; CFR, Trilateral Commission -- he didn't graduate from Oxford)
* Gov. Richard Celeste (OH, 1983-91)
* Supreme Court Justice Byron 'Whizzer' White (1962-93, also Phi Beta Kappa)
* Brig. Gen. Pete Dawkins
* Gen. Bernard W. Rogers (Supreme Commander of the NATO forces in Europe, 1979-87)
* Gen. Wesley Clark (Supreme Commander of the NATO forces in Europe, 1997-2000)
* Stansfield Turner (CIA Director, 1977-81)
* R. James Woolsey (CFR, CIA Director, 1993-95)

* Charles Collingwood (TV commentator)
* Howard K. Smith (TV commentator)
* George Jerome Goodman (writer known as 'Adam Smith')
* Hedley Donovan (former Editor-in-Chief of Time magazine, later a senior advisor to President Carter)
* Robert Penn Warren (Pulitzer Prize-winning poet and novelist, best known for his book All the King's Men).
www.modernhistoryproject.org...


edit on 15-2-2011 by crimvelvet because: finish sentence



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 06:14 AM
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Originally posted by crimvelvet



Clinton - preparing for insurrection and conversion into a collectivist society.


Collectivism (aka Kibbutzism) and enforced birth control are the only practical solutions to the problem of human impoverishment; particularly in the Third World. There are usually around 200 million people who are constantly on the brink of starvation. I do understand that American Capitalists and Christians who consider greed to be a virtue could not care less about such people as long as they themselves have an abundance of personal private property, and their shopping malls are full of the products of Third World Labour slaves and food imported from often the poorest regions of the earth where it is needed the most, however this current global situaton is intolerable and this economic hell on earth created by Capitalism will not continue forever.

Collectivism is the only possible way to attain the non miraculous feeding of the 7 billion. This will never occurr as long as Capitalism exists and food is sold as a commodity.

The 1000 Year Agricultural Revolution is not an objective for Biblical Christians and the US political Right; they are mostly ideological Capitalists waiting on the arrival of a genocidal Christian, anti-Communist, theocratic (god government) global dictator (a king of kings; aka the Messiah).

Agricultural revolution and collectivism is the objective of the Communists and Socialists who are widely considered to be Satanists (i.e, enemies) by the Christian Capitalists and the assorted anti-Communist conspiracy theorists, and not without good reason; we are the enemies of the Christians; the Christians are part of the problem of Hell on earth; they are not the solution; they have had centuries of Christian theocratic monarchies and have only created Hell on earth, not economic heaven.

Lux

edit on 15-2-2011 by Lucifer777 because: mis-spelling-itis



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 07:49 AM
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reply to post by Lucifer777
 





Collectivism (aka Kibbutzism) and enforced birth control are the only practical solutions to the problem of human impoverishment;


You missed the vital parts of Collectivism.

First what is the actual opposite of Collectivism? The opposite is not capitalism or Christianity it is individualism.

For an individualist, government derives its power, not from conquest and subjugation, but is given its powers by the people. This means the state does not have any legitimate powers unless given by its citizens AND (big and) the citizens CAN NOT give the state powers that they themselves do not have in the first place! In other words if it is immoral and unethical for me to rob a person than the government, derviving its powers from me does not have that right either.

Perhaps the biggest difference in beliefs is that individualists believe everyone has equal rights, where as collectivists think the "group" has more right than the individual. This allows laws to be applied differently to different people. There is no equality under the law.

So where does that belief the "group" has more right than the individual, aka "Mob Rule" lead us?

The loss of liberty can always be justified as necessary "for the greater good"

The ultimate group of course is the State, Therefore it is perfectly acceptable to sacrifice individuals if it is to the benefit of the government.

This mindset of the collectivist leads to this:
“The Collective Farm Policy was a terrible struggle, Ten million died. It was fearful. Four years it lasted. It was absolutely necessary." Joseph Stalin

or if you prefer - Bill Clinton's legacy Manufacturing the food crisis


...global food prices rocketing by 83% in the last year, and causing violent conflicts in Haiti and other parts of the world,” ” reports African Energy News. ”Food riots have also taken place in Egypt, Cameroon, Ivory Coast, Senegal, Burkina Faso, Ethiopia, Indonesia, Mauritania, Madagascar and the Philippines in the past month“ (and in Pakistan and Mexico, too).

Unable to afford food, hungry Haitians are now eating “cookies made of dirt, vegetable oil, and salt.”

“International Monetary Fund (IMF) President Dominique Strauss-Kahn has warned that hundreds of thousands of people will face starvation if food prices keep rising.”

Millions of poor people in the Third World now risk being evicted from their homes and becoming homeless

www.openmarket.org...

Do NOT try to tell me this was cause by "Capitalism" because it was not. It was the deliberate policy of collectivists. If people are unhappy then collectivists can move in with their sugarcoated poison and take over the government.

If you ASK those in the third world countries that the collectivists are trying to "help" they will tell you bluntly, "GO AWAY and leave us to direct our OWN destinies"

You can see this starting at the post post in Hues and Cries Of People Living In Third World Countries !

Collectivism has been tried again and again. It failed in the USA in the collectivist experiment of 1621, It failed more recently in Soviet Russia and many other places.

When you take all the appeals to "saving the poor and helpless" away you find the wolf under the sheep's clothing as depicted in the Fabian society Stainglass window


David Rockefeller . . . It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. [/v]The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries." www.newswithviews.com...


auto-determination is a government derived from the individual. What the collectivist want, once all the do-gooder facade, is torn away is a return to feudalism. No individual rights, no individual freedom, a privileged ruling class in complete control of everyone and everything.

As H L Mencken said "The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it."



posted on Feb, 15 2011 @ 01:24 PM
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Originally posted by crimvelvet

You missed the vital parts of Collectivism.

First what is the actual opposite of Collectivism? The opposite is not capitalism or Christianity it is individualism.

For an individualist, government derives its power, not from conquest and subjugation, but is given its powers by the people. This means the state does not have any legitimate powers unless given by its citizens AND (big and) the citizens CAN NOT give the state powers that they themselves do not have in the first place! In other words if it is immoral and unethical for me to rob a person than the government, derviving its powers from me does not have that right either.


Democracy and Republicanism

Perhaps one of the major misnomers is the reference to modern Republics as "democracies."


"All citizens were eligible to speak and vote in the (Athenian) Assembly, which set the laws of the city-state. However, the Athenian citizenship was only for males born from a father who was citizen and who had been doing their "military service" between 18 and 20 years old; this excluded women, slaves, foreigners (μέτοικοι / metoikoi) and males under 20 years old. Of the 250,000 inhabitants only some 30,000 on average were citizens. Of those 30,000 perhaps 5,000 might regularly attend one or more meetings of the popular Assembly. Most of the officers and magistrates of Athenian government were allotted; only the generals (strategoi) and a few other officers were elected. en.wikipedia.org... "


Governments in the world today are either dictatorships or various forms of republics; in a republic where the legislature is elected, the legislature can pass various laws which are against the public interest and which are unpopular, and in presidential republics the president usually has certain powers to do things, such as wage war, even if the majority of the legislature objects. The "powers" that politicians have are generally given to them by themselves, not by the population of their electorate.

In Britain the Latin motto which translates as ""My God and my Right" hangs above the head of judges in courtrooms. We usually refer to our "rights (plural)," such as the right to political freedom, freedom of speech, freedom of the press etc, but the head of state has no such rights and needs no such rights; she only needs one singular right, the right to rule, and she is entirely above the law and cannot be prosecuted for any reason whatsoever. Since the head of state and technically the head of the army, this forms part of the legal argument in the UK that the Iraq and Afhan wars were "legal.," which of course is an entirely different matter to being "moral."

My tyrant does not rule by "my" consent or by the consent of the people or by the consent of parliament. In a Republic, the legislature pass laws and give themselves and their president powers without the consent of the people. The idea that the powers of the government come from "the people" is a "democratic" idea, but it is not a republican idea, though certainly those who are elected in Republics tend to "try" to be popular with the people.

Neither Republics nor Democracies would produce an ideal state if it was not a state of ideal people. Iran is much more of a republic than the UK, and in Iran there are no unlected mullahs (Islamic clerics) in the legislature (in the UK we have unelected Bishops in the House of Lords), but since the mass of the population are Muslims, they tend to vote for Islamic candidates who then pass laws whch reflect Sharia Law. In a nation of religious fanatics, even a democrary or a republic can still produce hell on earth where people's basic rights are violated, such as the right to sexual freedom, freedom of the press and so forth.

In Egypt there is a currently an uprising for "democratic" reforms, but this simply means the replacement of a dictator who is an ally of the US and Israel with a "republic," which in a nation which is predominately Islamic, would mean handing over the largest army in the region to the Muslms. Not all "republican" revolutions are thus necessarily progressive; some can be entirely regressive and seek to institute ancient religious laws.

Mob Rule.

A pure democrary would simply be "mob rule;" if the masses were racists and religious fanatics, they could pass laws calling for the internment, expulsion or even execution of different races and they could pass religious laws imposing punishment for religious crimes. Ideally a democracy would only work well on a very small scale with a modern educated population, which is essentially the Anarchist ideal. Since the vast majority of Americans are Christians, I can only imagine what kind of hell on earth they would turn America into if it's constitutional republic was "democratically" reformed.

Communists are generally "not" democrats in the Athenian sense; they are both technocrats and constitutional Republicans. In a technocracy one cannot elect a medical doctor to design a nuclear power station, nor an nuclear physicist to perform open heart surgery, and one simply could not elect a Capitalist to run a contitutional Communist Republic.



Perhaps the biggest difference in beliefs is that individualists believe everyone has equal rights, where as collectivists think the "group" has more right than the individual. This allows laws to be applied differently to different people. There is no equality under the law.

So where does that belief the "group" has more right than the individual, aka "Mob Rule" lead us?

The loss of liberty can always be justified as necessary "for the greater good"

The ultimate group of course is the State, Therefore it is perfectly acceptable to sacrifice individuals if it is to the benefit of the government.

This mindset of the collectivist leads to this:
“The Collective Farm Policy was a terrible struggle, Ten million died. It was fearful. Four years it lasted. It was absolutely necessary." Joseph Stalin


Probably the most common "straw man" argument made by anti-Communists is to attempt to label all Communists as Stalinists, whereas almost all modern Communists share Trotsky's view that Stalin was a tyrant who betrayed the revolution; Lenin and Trotsky were of course also collectivists, but anti-Communists often tend to conveniently forget that there was hunger and starvation in Tzarist Russia and that the Bolsheviks were attempting to address such problems; to collectivise the largest nation on earth was no simple matter.



or if you prefer - Bill Clinton's legacy Manufacturing the food crisis


...global food prices rocketing by 83% in the last year, and causing violent conflicts in Haiti and other parts of the world,” ” reports African Energy News. ”Food riots have also taken place in Egypt, Cameroon, Ivory Coast, Senegal, Burkina Faso, Ethiopia, Indonesia, Mauritania, Madagascar and the Philippines in the past month“ (and in Pakistan and Mexico, too).

Unable to afford food, hungry Haitians are now eating “cookies made of dirt, vegetable oil, and salt.”

“International Monetary Fund (IMF) President Dominique Strauss-Kahn has warned that hundreds of thousands of people will face starvation if food prices keep rising.”

Millions of poor people in the Third World now risk being evicted from their homes and becoming homeless

www.openmarket.org...

Do NOT try to tell me this was cause by "Capitalism" because it was not. It was the deliberate policy of collectivists. If people are unhappy then collectivists can move in with their sugarcoated poison and take over the government.


This is just a typical "straw man" argument. You are portraying "the Capitalists" and anti-Communists as collectivists, when they are in fact Capitalists.

The agricultural industry is Capitalist not collectivist, and Monsanto is certainly not a "collectivist" corporation, it is a Capitalist corporation. Since US farmers receive farming subsidies, the lower the price of their crop on the markets, the more money the government has to give them, and most farmers in the world depend upon "high crop prices."

If too many people are growing the same crop, the price of a crop will fall, and even if there is a demand for that crop and there are hundreds of millions of people starving, since they do not have the Captial to purchase that crop, farmers will stop growing that crop and produce something else, such as rapeseed, which is grown all over Europe to produce biofuel.

In the Capitalist world, people go hungry and die of malnutrition, not because of a global shortage of food, but because food is considered to be a Capitalist commodity, and the poorest people among humankind have no Capital to purchase food. Much of the crop produced in the world anyway goes to feed livestock in order to supply meat to the wealthy First World, while children in the Third World die for just the lack of some corn and basic foodstuffs.

In Capitalism the shortage of a commodity for which there is a demand is directly related to the rising price of that commodity, and if there is overproduction of a commodity the price falls, however production is geared to what can be sold on the market at the highest prices; it is geared to the demands of Capitalists, not to the demands of people who are starving and impoverished because of the absence of Capital.

If you ASK those in the third world countries that the collectivists are trying to "help" they will tell you bluntly, "GO AWAY and leave us to direct our OWN destinies"

You can see this starting at the post post in Hues and Cries Of People Living In Third World Countries !

Collectivism has been tried again and again. It failed in the USA in the collectivist experiment of 1621, It failed more recently in Soviet Russia and many other places.

When you take all the appeals to "saving the poor and helpless" away you find the wolf under the sheep's clothing as depicted in the Fabian society Stainglass window

These are simply justifications for Capitalism and the continuation of world poverty. A modern technological Collectivist society simply cannot be created overnght, Cambodian style; probably the most successful collectivist experiments are the Kibbutz and Cuban models, especially the Kibbutz model where after almost a century of Iraeli collectivism, many of the Kibbutzim many Kibbutzim are like 5 star hotels and their residents enjoy a much higher standard of living than the US working classes.




David Rockefeller . . . It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. [/v]The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries." www.newswithviews.com...


auto-determination is a government derived from the individual. What the collectivist want, once all the do-gooder facade, is torn away is a return to feudalism. No individual rights, no individual freedom, a privileged ruling class in complete control of everyone and everything.



Feudalism was not collectivism; it was simply a form of lifelong slavery where farmers had to work land which belonged to a Feudal Lord; it was really no different to the kind of slavery practiced in the US with African slaves. David Rockerfeller is one of the Capitalist elites who is part of the "International Dictatorship of Capitalism" establishment; I find it rather hypocritical that Capitalists who oppose the rule of other Capitalists often portray their opponents as a "Communist" enemy, when they are in fact just fellow Capitalists; it is a typical "straw man" fallacy.




As H L Mencken said "The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it."




I have no personal ambitions to "rule" over anyone; I merely believe that the only hope for the children of the future world to avoid lifelong suffering and impoverishment is collectivism along the lines of the Israeli Communist model, prior to the recent Capitalist reforms in the Kibbutzim. A relative handful of collectivists in the desert farms of Israel are still profitably dumpng millions of tons of produce from their desert farms onto the European supermarkets, while European farmers are subsidised and paid to leave their fields barren in a world of hungry and impoverished people. Global agricultural revolution using the the collectivist model is the only practical solution I can forsee to resolve this.

Lux

edit on 15-2-2011 by Lucifer777 because: mis-spelling-itis



posted on May, 10 2011 @ 12:26 PM
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Enoch ROD OF IRON; CONSIDER YOUR CONCEPTS PERHAPS 2 BILLION ISLAMICS LEAVING 2 BILLION OTHERS WHO THINK THE GOD OF ABRAHAM IS THEIR GOD BUT BELIEVE THE LIES OF PAID RELIGIONIST OVER THE ILLUMINATED WORD OF GOD.

GOD PLANS ON KILLING 50% OF ALL LIFE I CAN PROMISE YOU THAT MEANS OVER ONE BILLION ISLAMIC DEAD ALONG WITH ONE BILLION FALSE CHRISTIAN DEAD AND TWO BILLION HONEST PAGANS. {VATICAN DISHONEST PAGANS}


I CAN PROVE EVERYTHING I WRITE COMES FROM GOD. CAN YOU PROVE EVERYTHING YOU WRITE COMES FROM GOD OR FROM THE SHARI WHICH IS A STENCH TO GOD AS THE TALMUD AND CANNON LAWS OF ROME!

reincarnated-apostle-john.blogspot.com...

Cooper told us. ‘They practice Hegalian conflict/resolution. They appear to oppose each other at the bottom ranks, but at the highest levels they are actually organizing and controlling the conflict which they have created to produce the solution that they see The Illuminati are extremely powerful, very wealthy men. They believe that they are the guardians of the secrets of the ages. They believe that the vast majority of people would not know what to do with the real knowledge and the real truth and the real science — and would, in fact, misuse them all. They further believe that everything that they do is for the ultimate betterment and survival of humankind — even if it means killing two billion people to reach their goal…’” -William Cooper


ENOCH ROD OF IRON WRITES: you are almost right, they plan on leaving only 2 billion alive, Enoch rod of iron my job is make sure “they” are held accountable for every needless death




4.bp.blogspot.com...

1.bp.blogspot.com...

4.bp.blogspot.com...



posted on May, 10 2011 @ 12:33 PM
link   
signature:
"..if Christ himself stood in my way I like Nietzsche would not hesitate to squish him like a worm” ...Che Guevara.



Originally posted by enochrodofiron


Enoch ROD OF IRON; CONSIDER YOUR CONCEPTS PERHAPS 2 BILLION ISLAMICS LEAVING 2 BILLION OTHERS WHO THINK THE GOD OF ABRAHAM IS THEIR GOD BUT BELIEVE THE LIES OF PAID RELIGIONIST OVER THE ILLUMINATED WORD OF GOD.

GOD PLANS ON KILLING 50% OF ALL LIFE I CAN PROMISE YOU THAT MEANS OVER ONE BILLION ISLAMIC DEAD ALONG WITH ONE BILLION FALSE CHRISTIAN DEAD AND TWO BILLION HONEST PAGANS. {VATICAN DISHONEST PAGANS}


I CAN PROVE EVERYTHING I WRITE COMES FROM GOD. CAN YOU PROVE EVERYTHING YOU WRITE COMES FROM GOD OR FROM THE SHARI WHICH IS A STENCH TO GOD AS THE TALMUD AND CANNON LAWS OF ROME!

reincarnated-apostle-john.blogspot.com...

Cooper told us. ‘They practice Hegalian conflict/resolution. They appear to oppose each other at the bottom ranks, but at the highest levels they are actually organizing and controlling the conflict which they have created to produce the solution that they see The Illuminati are extremely powerful, very wealthy men. They believe that they are the guardians of the secrets of the ages. They believe that the vast majority of people would not know what to do with the real knowledge and the real truth and the real science — and would, in fact, misuse them all. They further believe that everything that they do is for the ultimate betterment and survival of humankind — even if it means killing two billion people to reach their goal…’” -William Cooper


ENOCH ROD OF IRON WRITES: you are almost right, they plan on leaving only 2 billion alive, Enoch rod of iron my job is make sure “they” are held accountable for every needless death




4.bp.blogspot.com...

1.bp.blogspot.com...

4.bp.blogspot.com...






posted on May, 10 2011 @ 12:35 PM
link   

Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by Lucifer777
 





Collectivism (aka Kibbutzism) and enforced birth control are the only practical solutions to the problem of human impoverishment;


You missed the vital parts of Collectivism.

First what is the actual opposite of Collectivism? The opposite is not capitalism or Christianity it is individualism.

For an individualist, government derives its power, not from conquest and subjugation, but is given its powers by the people. This means the state does not have any legitimate powers unless given by its citizens AND (big and) the citizens CAN NOT give the state powers that they themselves do not have in the first place! In other words if it is immoral and unethical for me to rob a person than the government, derviving its powers from me does not have that right either.

Perhaps the biggest difference in beliefs is that individualists believe everyone has equal rights, where as collectivists think the "group" has more right than the individual. This allows laws to be applied differently to different people. There is no equality under the law.

So where does that belief the "group" has more right than the individual, aka "Mob Rule" lead us?

The loss of liberty can always be justified as necessary "for the greater good"

The ultimate group of course is the State, Therefore it is perfectly acceptable to sacrifice individuals if it is to the benefit of the government.

This mindset of the collectivist leads to this:
“The Collective Farm Policy was a terrible struggle, Ten million died. It was fearful. Four years it lasted. It was absolutely necessary." Joseph Stalin

or if you prefer - Bill Clinton's legacy Manufacturing the food crisis


...global food prices rocketing by 83% in the last year, and causing violent conflicts in Haiti and other parts of the world,” ” reports African Energy News. ”Food riots have also taken place in Egypt, Cameroon, Ivory Coast, Senegal, Burkina Faso, Ethiopia, Indonesia, Mauritania, Madagascar and the Philippines in the past month“ (and in Pakistan and Mexico, too).

Unable to afford food, hungry Haitians are now eating “cookies made of dirt, vegetable oil, and salt.”

“International Monetary Fund (IMF) President Dominique Strauss-Kahn has warned that hundreds of thousands of people will face starvation if food prices keep rising.”

Millions of poor people in the Third World now risk being evicted from their homes and becoming homeless

www.openmarket.org...

Do NOT try to tell me this was cause by "Capitalism" because it was not. It was the deliberate policy of collectivists. If people are unhappy then collectivists can move in with their sugarcoated poison and take over the government.

If you ASK those in the third world countries that the collectivists are trying to "help" they will tell you bluntly, "GO AWAY and leave us to direct our OWN destinies"

You can see this starting at the post post in Hues and Cries Of People Living In Third World Countries !

Collectivism has been tried again and again. It failed in the USA in the collectivist experiment of 1621, It failed more recently in Soviet Russia and many other places.

When you take all the appeals to "saving the poor and helpless" away you find the wolf under the sheep's clothing as depicted in the Fabian society Stainglass window


David Rockefeller . . . It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. [/v]The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries." www.newswithviews.com...


auto-determination is a government derived from the individual. What the collectivist want, once all the do-gooder facade, is torn away is a return to feudalism. No individual rights, no individual freedom, a privileged ruling class in complete control of everyone and everything.

As H L Mencken said "The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it."





posted on May, 10 2011 @ 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
You don't go to them, they come to you.

It's like business: unless you are recommended by someone who's trusted, they will not want to discuss secret societies and the like.

If you deal with men of any significance then you probably unknowingly meet a few regularly. It's likely that you aren't aware their secret affiliations because you aren't trustworthy enough.

Your best bet is just to know what they know.




posted on May, 10 2011 @ 12:55 PM
link   
reply to post by John Nada
 


The Masons are not a secret society they are a society with secrets here are some of them

doomsdayfornyse.blogspot.com...



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 08:39 AM
link   
Collectivism (aka Kibbutzism) and enforced birth control are the only practical solutions to the problem of human impoverishment;

Enoch rod of iron writes: You have failed to understand that most of mankind was made to produce a small group of spiritual beings and the rest was fossile fuel.



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 10:45 AM
link   
reply to post by enochrodofiron
 


WILL POST ONE TIME AND TELL THOSE WHO REALLY ARE HUNGRY FOR KNOWLEDGE TO READ MY BLOG. PAY ATTENTION TO THE RULES OF THE HIDDEN BOOK BEFORE WRITING ME.



posted on May, 11 2011 @ 03:14 PM
link   

Originally posted by enochrodofiron
reply to post by enochrodofiron
 


WILL POST ONE TIME AND TELL THOSE WHO REALLY ARE HUNGRY FOR KNOWLEDGE TO READ MY BLOG.

but what about all the meaningless posts above this one?


PAY ATTENTION TO THE RULES OF THE HIDDEN BOOK BEFORE WRITING ME.



great advice for someone who failed to read the rule about spaming.
I bet your blog is swell.





 
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