Vatican ready to make a statement on extraterrestrial life?

originally posted by: ElohimJD
Sodomy as a defines sin translates to unlawful sexual acts.

God Created lawful sexual relations between two human beings in marriage using what He created us to use for intercourse.

Any other sexual form, of our own choosing, in opposition to what was created lawful is called "sodomy" in scripture.

Anal sex, unmarried sex, unwated sex (rape) are all acts of sodomy accordin to scripture.

Choose for yourselves what that means today; I just wanted to clarify exactly what was recorded back then and what those words mean because there is a lot of confusion about it.

God Bless,

I will restate:

Roman Catholic scholar, Mark Jordan in his book The Invention of Sodomy in Christian Theology (1997) shows that the term “sodomy” originated in the eleventh century as a new classification of certain ‘clerical sins’. While early church fathers such as St. Ambrose and Origen clearly associate sodomy with inhospitality, by the time of St. Augustine, cultural associations around the word, communicated through secular poetry and legend shifted both its denotative and connotative meanings.

“The bible never links the story of Sodom with homosexuality. To use the Sodom story as evidence that the Bible condemns homosexuality is totally inaccurate. It is an anachronism, projecting later Church interpretation onto the biblical text, which is essentially about hospitality….”

“Even if the story were about lust, it is about rape, not homosexuality. The Sodomites were not “gay”. They were rapists. This is why Lot could offer his daughters in replacement, why the Judges version of the tale actually has a female substitute, and why those few Biblical references to Sodom as being sexually-related speak in general terms rather than specific ones.”

As Jay Michaelson, currently as PhD student in Jewish thought at Hebrew University points out, “The Bible condemns many things in the story of Sodom (lack of hospitality, humiliation of fellow human beings, brutality and violence toward others, pride, decadence, serious breech of human ethical obligations), but homosexuality is not one of them.”

Indeed, as Michaelson explains, the story of Sodom is in a biblical section where hospitality and ethics are central themes – Abraham welcoming three strangers to his tent; Abraham and king Abimelech. “Reading the story of Sodom as being about homosexuality is like reading the story of an axe-murderer and saying it’s about an axe,” concludes Michaelson.

“Sodomy” – a Biblical Word Study that Might Surprise You

a reply to: knoledgeispower

so aside from the part about what Akragon said, are you going to completely ignore everything else in that post that tells you what sodomy really means?

I don't think that I ever said that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because they were gay (which wouldn't really make any sense, how can a whole society be gay,) I said that "sodomy does not mean rape", because it doesn't, and as far as I can tell, it never did.

originally posted by: adjensen
a reply to: knoledgeispower

so aside from the part about what Akragon said, are you going to completely ignore everything else in that post that tells you what sodomy really means?

I don't think that I ever said that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because they were gay (which wouldn't really make any sense, how can a whole society be gay,) I said that "sodomy does not mean rape", because it doesn't, and as far as I can tell, it never did.

I can see you are ignoring what I said because...I don't know, you don't want to be wrong...whatever your reason, I'm not going to continue to waste my time.

originally posted by: knoledgeispower
I don't think people would believe ET's to be demons

There is a HUGE amount of undeniable evidence that suggests otherwise.

The Unholy Communion video is a perfect example.

These entities are extremely skilled at masquerading as "aliens" which is the reason behind all of the deception.

The IDH (Interdimensional hypothesis) is the most logical and best represents the behavior and anomalies associated with UFO related phenomenon.

“Alien abduction” experiences have been occurring for centuries; the only difference is that those who experienced them in the past usually recognized them as being something evil from a demonic force. It is only in modern times that large numbers of people in Christian countries have began to refer to the atypical “alien abduction” as something that is not demonic. "

Twelve similarities between Demonic Encounters and “Alien Encounters

• Abduction
• Periods Of Unconsciousness
• Appearing In The Form Of Humans
• Communicating Mentally
• Levitation
• Going Into Trances
• Endowing With Special Powers
• Becoming A Channel Or Mouth-Piece For The Entity
• Physical Suffering
• Raping/Sexually Molesting
• Accompanied By The Smell Of Sulfur
• Appearing At Night In Their Bedroom

"I think that the experiences are so similar that one can conclude that they are in reality one and the same."

Similarities Between UFO Encounters And Demonic Encounters

John Keel, one of the most respected researchers in this field, noted that “over and over again, witnesses have told me in hushed tones, ‘you know, I don’t think that thing I saw was mechanical at all. I got the distinct impression it was alive.’” thestrongdelusion.com...

The UFO phenomena are manifestations of living beings that are here to deceive mankind. They appear in their UFO form because they wish to change our perception of reality. That they are alive rather than mechanical is not our only conclusion.

thestrongdelusion.com...

The thousands of contacts with the entities indicate that they are liars and put-on artists. ~ John Keel

They are inveterate liars and deceivers, and delight in bamboozling and misleading mankind with all manner of nonsense. ~ Gordon Creighton

“They are messengers of deception” ~ Jacques Vallee

originally posted by: Murgatroid

originally posted by: knoledgeispower
I don't think people would believe ET's to be demons

There is a HUGE amount of undeniable evidence that suggests otherwise.

The Unholy Communion video is a perfect example.

These entities are extremely skilled at masquerading as "aliens" which is the reason behind all of the deception.

The IDH (Interdimensional hypothesis) is the most logical and best represents the behavior and anomalies associated with UFO related phenomenon.

“Alien abduction” experiences have been occurring for centuries; the only difference is that those who experienced them in the past usually recognized them as being something evil from a demonic force. It is only in modern times that large numbers of people in Christian countries have began to refer to the atypical “alien abduction” as something that is not demonic. "

Twelve similarities between Demonic Encounters and “Alien Encounters

• Abduction
• Periods Of Unconsciousness
• Appearing In The Form Of Humans
• Communicating Mentally
• Levitation
• Going Into Trances
• Endowing With Special Powers
• Becoming A Channel Or Mouth-Piece For The Entity
• Physical Suffering
• Raping/Sexually Molesting
• Accompanied By The Smell Of Sulfur
• Appearing At Night In Their Bedroom

"I think that the experiences are so similar that one can conclude that they are in reality one and the same."

Similarities Between UFO Encounters And Demonic Encounters

John Keel, one of the most respected researchers in this field, noted that “over and over again, witnesses have told me in hushed tones, ‘you know, I don’t think that thing I saw was mechanical at all. I got the distinct impression it was alive.’” thestrongdelusion.com...

The UFO phenomena are manifestations of living beings that are here to deceive mankind. They appear in their UFO form because they wish to change our perception of reality. That they are alive rather than mechanical is not our only conclusion.

thestrongdelusion.com...

The thousands of contacts with the entities indicate that they are liars and put-on artists. ~ John Keel

They are inveterate liars and deceivers, and delight in bamboozling and misleading mankind with all manner of nonsense. ~ Gordon Creighton

“They are messengers of deception” ~ Jacques Vallee

It depends on where they are from. Some are the evil ones and some are good.

originally posted by: Oannes
It makes sense that the church would be the first to disclose. These people are the least likely to believe and therefore the first that need to be told. Believers already know the truth.

One post on the topic!

originally posted by: knoledgeispower

You ignored when I asked this before so hopefully you don't ignore it again, why do they need a big disaster to "rescue" us?

I appreciate your posts on Topic. As well as those of many others. I think I answered to many of your other concerns in my last long post. I simply cannot answer every single line that deserves elaborated discussion. Unfortunately I do not see such a discussion, when the topic of ET and the Church involvement was steadily moved into sexual issues. Let those posters who do that, please open your own threads and discuss that.

Why do the aliens need a disaster? I hope they don't need one in order to help the earth. I hope they will come to help humanity before the point of no return to be reached in a nuclear, impoverished and overpopulated world. If that happens though it would make the aliens' coming a rescue mission. I hope they don't wait that.

Why 70+ years contact?
1947 Roswell. Computer tech, optical fibers and a number of military tech taken from the craft according to insiders.
In the time before WW2 some other ET (Aldebaran?) helped Germany's rocketry, nuclear research, and the Bell, as far as we know from info posted online. Those are seemingly different ET species with quite different agendas.

If you want to research more, I suggest you start from Paul Hellyer's talk about col. Corso's book on Roswell. Ex-efense minister Hellyer names 5+ ET races (Zeta Reticuli, Pleiadians, Altair, Orion, Andromeda) , and later speaks of 80+ ET races already on earth. While still in office in 1960s, he consecrated alien landing pad in Canada.

I think it is better to speak of ET "civilizations" not only of ET "races". From the mentioned 5 above, only Zetas are not human but humanoid. You will not notice that the person sitting next to you in the plane is a human ET, said Henry Deacon. Not interdimensional demon, as some say, but visible and touchable "normal" intelligent being of flesh and blood. The demonizers don't speak about the human ET. They prefer to speak about the others. Well the Universe is a large place. Among the billions of planets in our own galaxy surely there are reptilians and the rest who may be humanoid or other forms. As the pope spoke of Peter's vision of different animals, when he said he would ba[tize Martians. In fact his depicted Martian being is much more different from humans on earth than the Grey (Zeta) are.

There is much to be said and discussed, all of that is already posted online. The other bickering is lost precious time.

Is Vatican allied with any of them? Not Tom Horn's saga, but something real. Why don't they simply tell us?

originally posted by: 2012newstart
If you want to research more, I suggest you start from Paul Hellyer's talk...

Where's the credibility?

Not seein' it...

originally posted by: Snaffers
Since when is a politician a credible source???? Ahahahahahahaha

originally posted by: The GUT
Just because a person holds high-office doesn't make them credible. Ron & Nancy Reagan, for example, consulted astrologists and the like.

If I remember correctly, Hellyer got on his UFO kick after reading Corso's book. That either makes him extremely gullible or a shill for myth-making.

Don't get me wrong: I totally believe in the anomalous nature of many sightings/experiences, however, Hellyer would flunk any course that depended on objective fact research.

originally posted by: SQUEALER
Unfortunately, although the man himself is credible, he himself has not seen any ET or UFOs. He is simply reporting what other people have told him. He indicates he believes the "reports". We can believe that he believes. But, apart from that there still is zero evidence of ET and UFOs. All the stuff he talks about are the myths and propaganda that has been floating around for ages.

The only testimony that matters, is the testimony of someone who's had direct experience. The testimony of reports of others having direct experience is no testimony at all. All this shows is that a very intelligent high ranking Government Official can be easily duped, to believing anything. He is so convinced himself, that there's something to these ET and UFO stories, that he's willing to testify that it must be so.

originally posted by: knoledgeispower
It depends on where they are from. Some are the evil ones and some are good.

If that were in fact true then why does the ET agenda and the NWO agenda mesh together so perfectly?

The hidden agenda, disinfo, and massive amounts of propaganda surrounding the whole UFO issue is a huge clue as well.

"The implication is this. There's a new "Cosmic Gospel," a new spiritual plan of the ages that the "New Age" are gobbling down as fast as these entities can feed it to them, however in nearly every case, what they are being told is diametrically apposed to what we are told in the Biblical record. This "truth" they are being fed is a lie of literally cosmic proportion. But according to CE 4 Research Group's study of the Biblical record, the alien's "truth" becomes recognizable for the lie it really is, which is a scam, and not a very original scam at that. In fact it's the same lie Satan scammed Eve with in the Garden of Eden.

Okay, who are they, really?

The purpose of the scam is simple. The intentions of the "Space Brothers" are to destroy mankind, and the easiest way to accomplish this task is to hit them where they are most vulnerable: their inability to discern spirit. What they are presenting to mankind is a "Counterfeit Gospel," and what is a counterfeit? Something that looks almost exactly like the real thing, but isn't the real thing. You have never seen a counterfeit $23 bill. That’s because there are no real $23 bills. There are counterfeit $20 bills because there are real $20 bills. Only reality gets counterfeited. Furthermore, if you were to be given a counterfeit $20, it better look an awful lot like a real $20, or you’d never accept it. And so it goes with the abduction phenomenon and the alien's so-called "Cosmic Gospel."

The New Age and the UFO/abduction phenomenon go hand in hand as the principles of New Age philosophy, as taught by the gurus, come to us largely from the “Space Brothers” and “Spirit Guides.” One of these principles is, there are no absolute truths. There is no good and evil. Now, the actions of Mother Theresa are no longer distinguishable from the actions of Charles Manson. Once the enemy got enough people to believe that lie, the next step was easy. If there is no good and evil, then the atrocities they commit against their victims are neither good or evil. When abductees respond with fear and terror, it’s merely indicative of their spiritually primitive state. Jordan and Clark are willing to go out on a limb and suggest that love is love, peace is peace, rape is rape, murder is murder and coercion is coercion, no matter where in the entire universe one goes. Fortunately, not everyone has forgotten the concept of dignity.

To a spiritually undiscerning mind, the “Space Brother” scam looks awfully convincing, because it is “almost” just like reality. Jordan and Clark are acquainted with a Pleidian Channeller who asserts the entities whom she channels are ultimately "messengers from God." When asked how she knew they were of God, she responded, "Because they told me so."

Spiritual Warfare and Alien Abductions

originally posted by: colbe
I am wondering, true caring, why are you so against the Faith?

Who said anything about faith?

I was referring to lies, AKA religion.

I say we throw a few more sacred cows on the grill...

I don’t believe in apologizing for telling the truth.

Religion and faith have absolutely NOTHING in common.

In fact they are complete opposites.

God and Religion are enemies...

Because of religion, people have failed to see and reject the real Jesus and genuine Christian spirituality.

End result: people remain SEPARATED from God.

This is the hidden agenda behind false Religion...

To cover up the truth about God, destroy spirituality and cause people to hate God.

A mass-marketed pseudo Christianity is nothing but a poor substitute for a real relationship with God.

There are only TWO religious systems in the world.

Satan controls one.

The other owes its allegiance only to Jesus.

Jesus OPPOSED religion and religious people hated Him.

Jesus and religion are on totally opposite spectrum's,

IMHO God is NOT religious.

Nor is there ANY religion in Heaven.

He isn't the one behind religion.

"...religion's like spraying perfume on a casket
See the problem with religion, is it never gets to the core
It's just behavior modification, like a long list of chores"

What if I told you Jesus came to abolish religion
What if I told you voting republican really wasn’t his mission
What if I told you republican doesn’t automatically mean Christian
And just because you call some people blind
Doesn’t automatically give you vision

The Catholic Church is the most depraved, immoral and disgusting business in the world.

The sooner it collapses in on it self the better...

originally posted by: Murgatroid
Where's the credibility?

Not seein' it...

Ex-defense minister of Canada Paul Hellyer is credible enough to speak for himself and for what he researched so far. The initially quoted 5 races are DIFFERENT between themselves, come from different parts of our galaxy or from Andromeda, and don't have one "ET agenda" that matches with so called "NWO agenda". I don't know how you get such conclusions. One can talk of agendas only after thoroughly studied ET races, origins, actions on Earth. A big mistake is to mess up the human ET Pleiadians, with the Grey ET (who are said to have at least 200 sub-races), with the Reptilians who could be humanoids or non-humanoids as the Draco for ex.). To mess up all of that and to put a NWO brand (or demonize it with other words) is the worst approach. If there is evil (let say Draco are evil) then show the evil and separate it from the good. Otherwise, it is the same to say Hitler was German-born and Earth-born, therefore all earth-born are alike. If there are evil aliens out there looking for excuses, they will find them in our own stupidity and lack of respect for human life on earth. As Dr Greer said, we cannot export galactic racism in our relations with the different ET, while we humans on earth killed some 100 mln people in 20th century alone.

originally posted by: thesneakiod
The Catholic Church is the most depraved, immoral and disgusting business in the world.

The sooner it collapses in on it self the better...

How that statement helps the discussion on the topic?

Are the ET good, bad, do they have earth's best interests in mind, or do they pursue their own interests? A heated discussion between Dr Steven Greer, Kerry Cassidy, and Bill Ryan who reported his own experience of abduction.



Robert Dean at Camelot conference shows alleged Apollo photos of 5 miles long alien spaceship.



I don't see anything "New Age" in that. I see a pretty physical and documented extraterrestrial presence in/around the Earth. You can check all those ISS and STS videos with visible giant discs in near earth orbits. That presence will have particular consequences, most likely it already has. That consequence is what is being sought by the Vatican astronomers, and recently by the pope himself. It is not only to acknowledge the fact there are other intelligent beings among multi-billion stars and galaxies that we can't even count properly. That is out of question and it is strange there are still people ready to heated debate over that, long after Galileo and in the era of post-Newtonian physics.

The question set before the churchmen is rather different. They are not SO STUPID anymore as their predecessors were, to question the mere existence of ET anymore (look at the old churches filled with angels and stars and one does not need another proof from theological perspective). The question is: Shall we baptize them or not? Do they have the original sin at all? Are they the "angels" themselves, or some medium level between humans on earth and the angels? Or are they exactly as we are, only more advanced (those who come across the large space must be advanced to do so). What concrete benefits for the humanity will they bring?

All of that in the era BEFORE the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. That era may take quite a long, let say 1000 years more, or 100, 000 years more. The churchmen are the ones who know that best of all. They have the bitter disappointment of early centuries' expectations of an early Second Coming that NEVER materialized for all those 1900 years. No matter the amount of religious studies and interpretations of End times, naming of emperors and caliphate as the beast, and so on. It just didn't happen. They know it will take as long as God wants and it cannot be estimated by human means in decades or centuries.

Let not restrict God in His creativity, let not play small gods who speak in His name an who pretend how it is in heaven or from God's point of view. We don't know. Hall Lindsey already demonized the poor extraterrestrials, comparing them with a false rapture event arranged by satan's servants to substitute or explain the real rapture as he sees it. Are all of the churchmen so petty in their views?

One may not agree with the Catholic clergy on a number of questions. They did errors including the denial of life elsewhere during the inquisition time. Now some of them want to repair that damage done to earth''s history and awareness. Because the ancient times had almost perfect awareness of extraterrestrial life. Indeed only available to the elite. Now it is not restricted to any elite, it is in the public domain online for years. What do we do with that gift to be told publicly. Most do not care, the few who do try to demonize it and to ridicule those who believe the Universe is not created as pure evil. I refuse to believe in such a painted picture of God's creation. I'd rather see conspiracy in so created negative picture very popular among some fundamental church groupings, in all denominations. If there is evil in the Universe, surely there is good too, and the good is more. Do we really believe in omnipotent God who created all of that and created it good?

originally posted by: 2012newstart
Are the ET good, bad, do they have earth's best interests in mind, or do they pursue their own interests?

Greer is a complete fraud...

Don't waste another minute of your time on him.

Life is far too short and much too precious to waste it on those living a life of deception.

originally posted by: AliceBleachWhite

Saying one loves Steven Greer is an admission to loving LIES. Steven Greer is a Fraud.

I highly recommend this thread: The Problem with Greer.

He's quite renown for his fraud.

Further: UFO Watchdog Hall of Shame - Steven Greer

Plenty people like him because he tells them what they WANT to hear. You win more friends with Honey than with Vinegar, as they say. This all lies though, and there's a number of credible people he's tricked into participating in his Disclosure project that will no longer associate with him.

originally posted by: schuyler
We have covered Greer on ATS countless times with dozens of threads and thousands of posts. The overwhelming conclusion is that Greer is a fraud. He has no credibility. His claims are outlandish. Perhaps most of all, he NEVER follows through.

I would strongly suggest that people new to Greer do a little homework before launching into a diatribe against people who criticize Greer. There is a reason they do, and if you can puzzle though it, you will be less likely to embarrass yourself.

“Yet we have a problem here. The truth is that the UFO phenomenon simply does not behave like advanced but supposedly benevolent aliens who will ‘save’ our planet from destruction. Their purpose seems to be anything but open contact -- in the sense that we would expect friendly contact from advanced civilizations in space. Rather their goal seems to be psychological and social manipulation.

A few of the leading UFO researchers have recognized this, among them Vallee (Messengers of Deception), as well as John Keel (The Eighth Tower; UFOs: Operation Trojan Horse). These researchers believe that the UFO entities are deliberately programming their human observers with false information in order to hide their true nature and purpose” (After Dark, p.10).

Dr. Vallee, who has written eight books on UFOs, and has spent two decades in serious UFO research, “has put his finger on the lowest common denominator of UFO contacts -- deception -- and also on the most common parallel to UFO phenomena -- paganism and demonology. Vallee puts forth the idea that UFOs are purposely hoping to ‘change our belief systems’ and that they are engaging in a ‘worldwide enterprise of subliminal seduction’” (ibid.).

Says Dr. Vallee:

UFOs are putting “human beings under the control of a strange force that is bending them in absurd ways, forcing them to play a role in a bizarre game of deception.” They are not only making an impact on our social reality, but also seem bound to change our “political realities as well.”

Angels, Women, Sex, Giants, UFOs, Alien Abductions [PDF]

Many of them claim to be here to “save” us from looming disaster. And they speak “good” things to us. Others appear to be non-friendly. Don’t be fooled. Things are not always what they appear to be. There is evidence that these are simply two “fronts” to a clever game orchestrated by the same group.

They are intelligent and able to communicate with us. But they are liars and con artists. You could never trust them. But there is good reason to believe that it goes much deeper. The entities can be identified as the Legion of Lucifer, who are filled with insane hatred for the human race.

Their aim is our eventual destruction. In fact, the current wars, crime and corruption in our communities point straight at this sinister and deadly organization exerting their control in the highest echelons of government, business, science, religion and medicine, worldwide. If you didn’t know, a master plan is in place to bring down America, China… the whole world, very soon. Don’t let your preconceptions blind you to this reality. www.scribd.com...

It is interesting that they twist or deny many important biblical truths. Why would supposedly evolved intelligences from other worlds be so concerned about a local, unique religious manifestation? They should not be threatened by something we would eventually 'outgrow' as a race. The obvious answer is that the Bible makes their attempt to deceive us obvious. It thwarts their plans for mass brainwashing and takeover. They must deny the truth of the Bible. ~ David Allen Lewis, UFO End-Time Delusion

The "Disclosure" project is funded heavily by Rothschild. Steven Greer is not who he claims to be, he is working for the CIA. The CIA knows people want answers and wants this technology made public. With that notion, the CIA decided to stack the deck. They created the disclosure project and threw money at it left and right.

The disclosure project is to slow people down, it was created to give people a false hope for "disclosure". If we leave "disclosure" up to the disclosure project it will never happen. Please realize this people. The Disclosure Project is not real, its fake, and its created to fool people like you and I. Its time for a revolution. Disclosure Project Is Fake

Couldn't get through the first page of this without someone spouting off about child "touching" Let's change the record.

Sure, it's sick. It's corrupt. But what isn't these days? It's just just Catholic priests doing "that" you know...

Also, to throw out the Catholic Church and it's credibility/knowledge/history is just stupid.

For those who hold the bible as reliable and authentic, it is impossible to conclude that there is intelligent life on other planets. Notice I say "intelligent" and do not exclude other forms of life God may have created.

Reasoning:

If God created man in his image, (Genesis 1:26) it is reasonable to conclude any other intelligent creation would also be created in his image and with his qualities.

Certain members of the spirit realm rebelled in man's beginning (AKA Satan and his followers) and challenged that man can rule himself absent of God, thus causing God to allow the challenge to run it's course. To settle the issue for all time.

If God had created another intelligent people somewhere else before us, who were still faithful to him at the time of our beginning, then there would not have been the necessity for him to allow the rebellion here on earth to run it's course, since the other race had stayed faithful.

If God had created another intelligent people somewhere else before us, who turned against him, then they would be suffering our fate instead.

The bible suggests we are the first physical intelligent creation

Once the issue is settled, then the future will proceed as planned.

Why is the universe so large, and why so many planets? My speculation is (not in the bible):

God told the first man "Be fruitful and increase in number, fill the earth and subdue it." (Genesis 1:28) So what happens when the earth is full? Perhaps he has other planets waiting for us in the future once our rebellion has ended and the earth is at capacity. Life existed on earth for a long time before us, and it is possible life exists elsewhere in our universe in preparation for us. But that is speculation, and we will have to wait and see.

a reply to: TheChrome

Imagine If first contact was just with more humans :O
Billions of planets all with humans who evolved the same way :O
I think I would just die.

Oh great post btw.

a reply to: TheChrome

The Bible clearly writes about other intelligent beings who are not just "good", they are much better than Adam's descendants and much higher in many ways. Read Ezekiel 1. On many important occasions in history they are God's messengers sent to earth. One of them being the messenger of Jesus' incarnation, Gabriel sent to Mary.

Of course the Bible speaks also of the fallen ones. Let not mess these two distinctive groupings.

Humans are far not the only intelligent being in the Universe. The Bible is not the only book speaking of it. But even if you disregard all the other sources, you can find the necessary amount of key info in the Bible.

I wonder why more preachers do not preach about Ezekiel 1, after the pope's green light. Ezekiel 1 is a clear description of technologically advanced intelligent race who are both "good" and "sent by God"to the prophet. In all, the preachers should not await people in forums to tell that first. It is what happens today in practice. Common people's awareness is greater than that of the appointed ones. At least now those in position should finally see the truth and realize their duty requires they speak of the truth, not to cover it with inadequate wordings that belong to past ages. Or they become as salt that has lost its saltiness and is not good for anything.

originally posted by: Murgatroid
Greer is a complete fraud...

Don't waste another minute of your time on him.

I quoted many more people, including Paul Hellyer and the pope. There are dozen, hundred of people found speaking online with credibility. Are they also complete fraud? And who is he who claims such accusations for each and everyone of those people: military, engineers, scientists, who had first hand encounter with piece of tech not coming from earth?

I see your position. Why don't you make the effort to retell us those large paragraphs instead of copy and paste? What is the credibility of the sources you quote?

Bob Dean, Clifford Stone, Bob Lazar, Dr Peterson, Dr Salla, are just some names out of a long list whose credibility I prefer to believe in. I didn't see anyone on the other camp who offers the same level of explanation. The rejection is not necessarily a ready solution. You may label everything NWO but that doesn't decide the problems. Who for example will tell us how the computers popped up out of nowhere in history, or how we can cure the cancer in the years to come. It is after all a personal choice whom to believe. I am glad that at least now in 21st century the pope and those around him have chosen to side with the real facts.