Kill Them, Make Them Suffer !

I'm referring to threads concerning Capital Punishment.

I have to say I am deeply concerned by the reactions of members who supposedly DENY IGNORANCE.
Just take a look at some of the posts! Members expressing their desire to be the executioner. Others wishing they could make the condemned suffer for as long as possible. People posting that they want the condemned to choke on their own vomit!

Are these people really so savage? or are we being played!!!

Are we seeing the tptb socially engineering society to accept termination as being normal!
The msm tell us about death sentences that "went wrong" and most of us are appalled and we shout "Unacceptable, they must get it right"

Do you see it?
When we shout "Unacceptable, they must get it right" we are accepting the killing of people so long as its done properly!

YOU DO REALISE THAT BY THE TIME MOST OF YOU REACH RETIREMENT AGE TPTB WILL HAVE CONVINCED THE SHEEP THAT THOSE WHO ARE NO-LONGER PRODUCTIVE MEMBERS OF SOCIETY SHOULD BE TERMINATED!!
Have you thought about that?
Dont believe it? then please explain why they wouldn't do it!
Why do you think the threads have so many posts driving people into a frenzy making us demand DEATH!

Baa Baa said the sheep.

a reply to: VoidHawk

I can respect and understand your anger but executions have been going on since the beginning of time and the executions were held in public areas so this bloodlust that we have has been imprinted in our DNA for centuries.

We are what we are.

I participated in the thread and can see both sides... Kind of.

I will copy/paste from there:

That is ridiculous. While I have absolutely no sympathy for murderers, I also am not sure how normal folks can sit that long and watch someone die like that. I wouldn't have been able to sit through it.... Not even if it had been my loved one he killed.

We can all understand the emotion behind the death penalty. Myself included. I am 37 and I still waffle on occasion. Truthfully. As others have mentioned, there are people being freed all the time that have been found innocent. They have lost their entire lives for nothing. How many have been put to death, that weren't lucky enough to be found innocent after spending over half their life behind bars?? That's one of the main things that keeps me waffling.

That one person could very easily be any one of us. There aren't words for how much that would suck. Everyone claims innocence behind bars... Imagine claiming it still yet on your final walk and having it still fall on deaf ears. Then imagine suffering like that for that long for something you never did.

That's pretty much all I have to say about that. Empathy is always a good thing. You might find yourself in need of it one day. They need to either find a better way or stop doing it IMO.

As that explains I waffle back and forth on the whole issue, but like you.... The thought of rejoicing in death doesn't feel quite right with me. I could not willingly take part or watch something like this. I must state again (for those who will say I love murderers and pedophiles), that I see both sides. I'm sure my first reaction (if I were the victim or family) would be to take them out of this world by any means necessary, but stringing it out as posted in the OP leaves me unsettled.

This is always going to be one of those issues we can not discuss over Christmas dinner and walk away still happy afterwards. It's definitely a polarizing topic which most folks see as black and white without a lot of room for grey.

Or maybe you have been brainwashed into being passive?

en.m.wikipedia.org...

There's a map in the link that shows which countries still use capital punishment.
Not many countries still use the death penalty.

a reply to: VoidHawk

There is so many ways to look at this it would make a person crazy.

The penalty needs to be so that a person says holy cow if I kill so and so this happens, and I don't want that. This is why the mob had rules everyone knew the rules, you didn't want to kill a mob guy.

Personally I think it should be a long time in jail and your life is so miserable while there you wish you were dead. None of this television, exercise equipment, conjugal visit kind of stuff.

originally posted by: MarlinGrace
a reply to: VoidHawk

There is so many ways to look at this it would make a person crazy.

The penalty needs to be so that a person says holy cow if I kill so and so this happens, and I don't want that. This is why the mob had rules everyone knew the rules, you didn't want to kill a mob guy.

Personally I think it should be a long time in jail and your life is so miserable while there you wish you were dead. None of this television, exercise equipment, conjugal visit kind of stuff.

Sounds like the perfect job for Sheriff Joe he knows how to make criminals suffer.

a reply to: VoidHawk

Capital punishment is one issue.
The pursuit of revenge is another.
Rooting for the executioner with arrogant blood-lust is another, especially while in a peanut gallery.

Are these people really so savage? or are we being played!!!

And what a conundrum THAT is Void. One is scary as hell and the other is very very sad.

a reply to: VoidHawk

AMEN!

I think we need to be able to punish criminals the same way Tom Paris was on an episode of Star Trek Voyager. Make the criminal relive the last moments of the victims life, including the murder, every 12hrs. That is a true punishment.

Death is a quick release not a punishment.

a reply to: VoidHawk

First post here, VoidHawk. That said the death penalty issue has always interested me. On one hand, when a fellow citizen has killed, raped or otherwise gone on a criminal rampage, one must carefully examine the need for said individual to be forcibly prevented from doing so again. Enter the ancient practice of confinement, or prison terms. Then again, I also believe no individual should have the right to take the freedom of another, which conducts me cleanly back to the death penalty--the ultimate insurance a "bad man" will never kill or maim or rape again. Of course family loss enters the picture as well--that is the terrible weight of loss the killer inflicts on his victim's surviving loved ones.

When considering this issue it's quite easy to contradict oneself. A hard, final conclusion or stance is difficult to reach. On the other hand, I do not believe a government should be permitted to or have the "right" to kill its own citizens. That's a power that once wielded and awarded mass appeal leads to the execution of many innocents.

Additionally, in our society, killers come in many forms and from many levels of "caste" and profession--even station. When a civilian kills be it in the heat of passion, in cold blood, or even for the thrill of it, our justice system calls the act murder or homicide. However, when a law enforcement officer kills it is called "in the line of duty" and labelled either a good or bad shooting. Alas, when the decisions of our "elected" leaders result in the deaths of thousands or millions, here or overseas, such killing is found to be collateral damage, diplomacy, or regrettable but necessary. And yes, I have indeed gone off on a tangent ... somewhere.

When killing happens within the confines of our compartmentalized cities, counties, neighborhoods, most Americans seem to agree with their ruling class that extreme punishment is due, and they want the government to carry it out for them. My only thought: where does the killing end?

At length, assuming a killer, etc. can be proven guilty far, far beyond a reasonable doubt, then perhaps I'd support some kind of personal retribution system whereby the surviving family members are offered the right of revenge. Something like that because after all when a person is murdered who loses the most? The family and friends. Adversely, I do not believe the government should be pulling switches or making lethal injections ... not ever. Likely I've contradicted myself somewhere.

In closing, some killing is sanctioned some of the time in the name of many causes and professions but not all killing is considered wrong either. It's--for me--these distinctions of good killing versus bad killing and maiming which are most frightening.

As for the savagery of the populace in general, well we left the eighties behind a long time ago (sadly) and the public hunger for blood really wasn't that much less even then.

a reply to: VoidHawk

I used to be all for the death penalty, but not anymore. It's barbaric, and has been proven to be useless in the prevention crime. It is more expensive to put a prisoner to death than it is to incarcerate them for life. I also believe indefinite detention to be a much greater punishment than death.

If you haven't already, check out a show called "Rectify" -- about a guy who was put on death row when he was 18 for rape & murder, only to be released 20 years later after being exonerated by DNA evidence.

I'm against the death penalty except in extreme cases where it's dangerous to keep the person alive ... dangerous for fellow inmates or for prison workers or for society in general. That's a rare thing. But if there is to be a death penalty for those folks, then it should be quick and painless. Honestly ... death by firing squad is probably it.

a reply to: VoidHawk

Abortion has brainwashed society into accepting that life is nothing more than animated tissue.

At least with the death penalty the individual makes the choice to live within the rule of law or violate it to the point where death is the only acceptable alternative.

originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: MarlinGrace
a reply to: VoidHawk

There is so many ways to look at this it would make a person crazy.

The penalty needs to be so that a person says holy cow if I kill so and so this happens, and I don't want that. This is why the mob had rules everyone knew the rules, you didn't want to kill a mob guy.

Personally I think it should be a long time in jail and your life is so miserable while there you wish you were dead. None of this television, exercise equipment, conjugal visit kind of stuff.

Sounds like the perfect job for Sheriff Joe he knows how to make criminals suffer.

A lot of people don't like Sheriff Joe, he is straight out, you know where he stands all the time. Makes no bones about it and doesn't have a country club for criminals. He is ok in my book, we could use a bunch more like him.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: VoidHawk

Abortion has brainwashed society into accepting that life is nothing more than animated tissue.

At least with the death penalty the individual makes the choice to live within the rule of law or violate it to the point where death is the only acceptable alternative.

Hi Beez. Like you I've just logged on and I see your still here so i'll reply to you first. I logged off when I posted the thread so that I didn't reply while angry.

Abortion.
Hmm, I wouldn't call myself pro abortion, but I can see times when it might be a kinder thing to do.
A life with nothing but misery and pain?
Should a brutally raped women be forced to go through with the pregnancy of what she probably considers the spawn of a monster?

The Death penalty.
Several times threads have been posted on this subject and I've witnessed members baying for blood/suffering/death.
They always say "Think of the suffering and loss to the families of the murdered victims"
I say ""Think of the suffering and loss to the families of the executed"
I find it hypocritical that they use the suffering families of the murdered relatives as reason for the execution, yet they ignore the fact that children will suffer the loss of their father (the condemned), and not because he was murdered, but because supposedly civilized people ordered it to be done.
When we demand the death of the condemned we inflict the same suffering onto his family as he inflicted onto the family of the victim.
How on earth can that be right?

Also, there's the MANY cases where the accused has been found to have been innocent! Those poor soles were put to death because at the time the law considered it just. Many murderers also considered that what they did was just, only to find out later they were wrong.
Should the executioners be put to death when a mistake has been made? because thats what we do to the murderer for the same mistake.

I just think Capital punishment is wrong. It lowers us to the same level as the murderer, and it creates more victims - the families of the condemned.

If a person is proven to be too dangerous to be loose then lock them up and throw away the key. That way there's no more suffering to other innocent people, and its (unbelievably!) cheaper than execution.

If that comes across as a rant at you I apologize, its not meant to be. I'm no word smith so I just write what I feel.

Void.

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: VoidHawk

I can respect and understand your anger but executions have been going on since the beginning of time and the executions were held in public areas so this bloodlust that we have has been imprinted in our DNA for centuries.

We are what we are.

I dont think dna works that way.
Its television and public forums that imprint such things on people.

a reply to: Kangaruex4Ewe

Hi Kangaruex4Ewe
You said

I waffle back and forth on the whole issue

Is that because your being swayed by other peoples replies? or are you flip flopping as you think about it?
I had spotted your post in the other thread and starred it because you were at least giving it some thought, unlike many who just seemed to want blood.

What do you think about the issue of the condemned persons children having to be told their father is going to be killed? Many people refuse to go there! Just wondering what your thoughts are on it?

originally posted by: MarlinGrace
a reply to: VoidHawk

There is so many ways to look at this it would make a person crazy.

The penalty needs to be so that a person says holy cow if I kill so and so this happens, and I don't want that. This is why the mob had rules everyone knew the rules, you didn't want to kill a mob guy.

Personally I think it should be a long time in jail and your life is so miserable while there you wish you were dead. None of this television, exercise equipment, conjugal visit kind of stuff.

"The penalty needs to be so that a person says holy cow if I kill so and so this happens"
The problem is that (unless its a mob killing) most murders are done in anger, when the murderer isn't thinking about the consequences, so I dont think it matters what the punishment is.

Whats your view on the person who is an upright citizen, never done a bad thing in there life, but something causes them to momentarily flip and they find they've just killed someone. Are they the same as the Mob murderer?

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: VoidHawk

Capital punishment is one issue.
The pursuit of revenge is another.
Rooting for the executioner with arrogant blood-lust is another, especially while in a peanut gallery.

Are these people really so savage? or are we being played!!!

And what a conundrum THAT is Void. One is scary as hell and the other is very very sad.

Glad someone understood it

originally posted by: AphoticJoe
...I do not believe a government should be permitted to or have the "right" to kill its own citizens. That's a power that once wielded and awarded mass appeal leads to the execution of many innocents.

originally posted by: AphoticJoe
When killing happens within the confines of our compartmentalized cities, counties, neighborhoods, most Americans seem to agree with their ruling class that extreme punishment is due, and they want the government to carry it out for them. My only thought: where does the killing end?

So far you are the only person who's commented on that part of my op.
I suspect people have ignored it thinking it was just said out of anger, but I was actually quite serious, thats why I capitalized it.
Check your messages.