Ukrainian Separatist commander comes right out and admits they had a BUK from Russia

Smoking gun evidence that surely won't be good enough for Moscow's apologists.

www.businessinsider.com...

DONETSK Ukraine (Reuters) - A powerful Ukrainian rebel leader has confirmed that pro-Russian separatists had anti-aircraft missiles of the type Washington says were used to shoot down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.
In an interview with Reuters, Alexander Khodakovsky, commander of the Vostok Battalion, acknowledged for the first time since the airliner was brought down in eastern Ukraine on Thursday that the rebels did possess the BUK missile system.

He also indicated that the BUK may have originated in Russia and could have been sent back to remove proof of its presence.



Read more: www.businessinsider.com...

And the real kicker?

"I knew that a BUK came from Luhansk. At the time I was told that a BUK from Luhansk was coming under the flag of the LNR," he said, referring to the Luhansk People’s Republic, the main rebel group operating in Luhansk, one of two rebel provinces along with Donetsk, the province where the crash took place.

"That BUK I know about. I heard about it. I think they sent it back. Because I found out about it at exactly the moment that I found out that this tragedy had taken place. They probably sent it back in order to remove proof of its presence," Khodakovsky told Reuters on Tuesday.

"The question is this: Ukraine received timely evidence that the volunteers have this technology, through the fault of Russia. It not only did nothing to protect security, but provoked the use of this type of weapon against a plane that was flying with peaceful civilians," he said.

Read more: www.businessinsider.com...

So now the narrative has shifted to "we may have shot it down and we had the BUK to do so from Russia, but the Ukrainians made us do it".

Incredible. What will the excuses be now from the internets army of pro-putin shills? Is this man merely a shape shifting lizard person, in league with the illuminati? An alien? A CIA agent? Or is what he says true, and now it's the Ukrainians fault (even though the separatists clearly shot the plane down with a Russian supplied weapons system)?

This link has been posted in other threads, but I feel this deserves it's own thread. It will be comical to read the excuses.

ETA:

It would seem the Russian spin masters are already at it:

niqnaq.wordpress.com...

Clearly, this man is a traitor, and nothing more, and he is lying. Of course. Didn't see that coming a mile away.

a reply to: DeadSeraph

We know that the US and assorted NATO partners have any manner of assets to know about those units and exactly where they were fired from. It is obvious in the lacking of the quick release of specific info from the West, that they are allowing Putin to "slowly turn in the wind." But I don't suppose he will step down. He has too many old and wealthy KGB buddies backing him. Obama must be, as they say, "Lovin' it!"

The guy says that he heard that they had it after the plane was shot down. He did not see it. I am sure the US military satellited would have pictures of it leaving the country if it did leave, it is not something that you cannot see. There are spy satellites stationed over that area. I think that maybe this guy was bought off, if he actually even exists. This sort of tactic is used by lots of governments around the world, it usually flops. Nowadays people can communicate better and someone will be telling the truth shortly, if they aren't too scared to say something.

I'd say this was a big "no kidding." On top of this, amateur footage potentially shows this system being trucked back to Moscow asap:

Is this the BUK missile launcher that shot down MH17 being smuggled back to Russia: Motorist captures military truck carrying BUK M1 in border town
(dailymail.co.uk)

Videos and images at the page above. Russian separatists have both received SA-11 systems from Russia as well as captured some from Ukraine forces they drove out of Torez.

Caption: Offending launcher? A driver filmed this BUK launcher on the back of a military track rumbling back across the Russian border on Saturday.

Caption: A view of what is believed to be a BUK surface-to-air missile battery being driven along a path on July 17 in Torez, Ukraine.

Many more photos and video of said launcher at the page above.

You'd think someone somewhere would have before and after pictures of a missile launcher with a full load of missiles and then with one missile missing.

originally posted by: rickymouse
The guy says that he heard that they had it after the plane was shot down. He did not see it. I am sure the US military satellited would have pictures of it leaving the country if it did leave, it is not something that you cannot see. There are spy satellites stationed over that area. I think that maybe this guy was bought off, if he actually even exists. This sort of tactic is used by lots of governments around the world, it usually flops. Nowadays people can communicate better and someone will be telling the truth shortly, if they aren't too scared to say something.

Preempted you there. He clearly exists as demonstrated by the link I provided, which sources articles written about him before the MH17 event took place.

Everyone seems to think the U.S should have crystal clear images of the separatists firing the infamous missile, but nobody seems to be able to provide a good reason why. But the funny part, is that even if the U.S DID have such an image, and presented it to the international community, it would instantly be called into question by people like yourself.

You see, there is enough circumstantial evidence already provided by the rebels themselves to indicate they shot down that plane, but confirmation bias prevents certain people from believing what they don't want to believe, and propagandists just outright lie to advance an agenda.

originally posted by: stormcell
You'd think someone somewhere would have before and after pictures of a missile launcher with a full load of missiles and then with one missile missing.

There is VIDEO of it. People simply claim it isn't enough evidence that it's the launcher in question.

a reply to: Blackmarketeer

So the rebels captured a missile system that Ukraine got from Russia, then they accidentally shoot down a commercial airliner with it, then Putin says give me back my missiles you freaking morons.

Where's the problem?

originally posted by: Bone75
a reply to: Blackmarketeer

So the rebels captured a missile system that Ukraine got from Russia, then they accidentally shoot down a commercial airliner with it, then Putin says give me back my missiles you freaking morons.

Where's the problem?

How have you drawn that conclusion from the information in the article I linked?

The separatist clearly states they received the launcher from Russia, and sent it back once they realized they'd shot down an airliner.

So, some guy says they have one, maybe, but he hasn't seen it! Nice to even know if this guy exists.

We have videos of what may be one but they are all covered, so, it could be anything.

And the videos could of been taken anywhere, only the captions tell us where they are.

This is just your typical propaganda, from the West this time.

To top it all off is this line in the OP.

Smoking gun evidence that surely won't be good enough for Moscow's apologists.

So we know where this thread wants to lead us all.

Yes Dorothy, we are all looking where you're pointing.

How about some real evidence like rickymouse has asked for.

I suppose all of the US and NATO satellites just all went down at the same precise time.

P

originally posted by: pheonix358
So, some guy says they have one, maybe, but he hasn't seen it! Nice to even know if this guy exists.

We have videos of what may be one but they are all covered, so, it could be anything.

And the videos could of been taken anywhere, only the captions tell us where they are.

This is just your typical propaganda, from the West this time.

To top it all off is this line in the OP.

Smoking gun evidence that surely won't be good enough for Moscow's apologists.

So we know where this thread wants to lead us all.

Yes Dorothy, we are all looking where you're pointing.

How about some real evidence like rickymouse has asked for.

I suppose all of the US and NATO satellites just all went down at the same precise time.

P

HAHAHAHA that's the funniest thing about this whole PR campaign by the russian conspiracy theorists. They keep asking for "REAL" evidence, and it's there in spades yet never good enough for them. I don't even give a # what you would tell me would be evidence enough for you, because I know if it were to come out you'd just call it into question anyways.

Lets go over the evidence thus far shall we?

-tweets from the rebels themselves moments after the shootdown, claiming triumphantly they shot down a Ukrainian transport. Tweets are later deleted enmasse

-Tweets are accompanied by VIDEO of the event itself. Literally show flight MH17 going down.

-Separatists cordone off the area and do not allow international observers onto the scene at first, and are the first ones to pick through it

-Separatists dismantle entire sections of the plane and ship it off on large trucks while claiming they are leaving it untouched for international experts

-Separatists are filmed doing this, while also filmed looting dead bodies and the belongings of the passengers

-Separatists claim they had no BUK systems, but later admit they did, but say if they brought down the plane, it was obviously Ukraine's fault

-Separatists are the first to the black boxes/flight recorders, NOT international observers. Conveniently ship them off after they have had their way with them

-Video comes out of the BUK system with 2 missiles missing traveling east and headed for the Ukrainian border. Separatist sympathizers claim this is evidence of nothing, and it is probably a Ukrainian BUK, and that they did not have a BUK system despite conflicting reports from within their own ranks that they DID have one

-Separatists have repeatedly shot down planes over rebel held territory in the past.


Yep. It's all a big conspiracy alright. Russians are totally innocent, and the separatists clearly don't have anything to hide. Whatever you say.

ETA: And that is just the tip of the iceberg. It would take me much more time than I care to invest to catalog the extensive list of lies the Russians themselves have been caught in since the invasion of Crimea, and I know I'd just be wasting my breath with you anyways.

Their excuse for is the downed airliner is not on Russia's shoulders. It may or may not be on the separatists shoulders and that may or not be bad for Russia but I don't see how that is anyone's problem but Russia's. They were backing these boys and they *snip*ed up. That is why wars are fought proxy. Ask the US and UK, they have centuries of experience at it.

Yet more of the propaganda bullsh*t to'ing and fro'ing (from both sides/believers)with this story and as per usual, there is a kind of story there, but it just doesn't have any substantial content, this is proof of nothing.

And additionaly, Kievs forces also had Buk Missile systems in the area as well, so even if the above vid/picture is real, it could belong to either side.

Oh and something which really annoys me (as it's an age-old tactic that the West employs a lot), this "un-named sources" crap, they said this and that (also with no evidence provided), well those people, whoever they are, are now saying that there is no direct link to Russia. when before, they as good as said they did it, because as we know, the West usually shoots first and asks questions later.

The funniest thing for me would be, if both sides in their desperation to proof the other complicit, both succeeded, because in a kind of way, that would be true.

P.s. The Maidan are an evil bunch who will even kill their own countrymen, just saying

The thing that really sold it for me were the news articles about the rebels previously shooting down craft. It looks like they were attempting to shoot down ukrainian military aircraft, but this doesn't absolve them of responsibility. Why're they not rebuking their government lawfully? Why is Russia giving the weapons, hence inflaming the situation, making it harder for the region to settle down and for real negotiations to occur.

Storming into Crimea and overtaking government buildings and smuggling missiles systems to rebels is Russia's idea of supporting a pro-russia civilians. Essentially, Russian leaders have no respect for the sovereignty of Ukraine. Thye show they only have respect for weapons and force.

Russia is also showing the have bully mentality.

Is some background on the rebels from some months ago:
www.reuters.com -
Pro-Russia protesters occupy regional government in Ukraine's Donetsk...

And here's an article about them shooting down a Ukrainian military aircraft:
nypost.com - Ukraine protestors get violent outside Russian embassy in Kiev ...

Protesters hurled eggs and overturned diplomats’ cars Saturday outside the Russian embassy in Kiev just hours after the Ukrainian president vowed to attack Russian-backed rebels who killed 49 people when they shot down a military cargo plane.
...........

a reply to: jonnywhite

The thing that really sold it for me were the news articles about the rebels previously shooting down craft.

There is a HUGE difference in shooting down combat craft at lower attack altitudes than taking something out at 32000 ft. So you have bought a dummy.

Completely different weapon systems.

P

originally posted by: pheonix358
a reply to: jonnywhite

The thing that really sold it for me were the news articles about the rebels previously shooting down craft.

There is a HUGE difference in shooting down combat craft at lower attack altitudes than taking something out at 32000 ft. So you have bought a dummy.

Completely different weapon systems.

P

How convenient. Where did they get those weapons systems? The Russians keep denying they are sending the separatists weapons, so where are they getting them from? They are taking out large transports and even fighters (just took down 2 SU-25's today). Where did they get the weapons to do this if they are just "local self defense forces"?

Yeah. Keep lying.

originally posted by: DeadSeraph

originally posted by: pheonix358
a reply to: jonnywhite

The thing that really sold it for me were the news articles about the rebels previously shooting down craft.

There is a HUGE difference in shooting down combat craft at lower attack altitudes than taking something out at 32000 ft. So you have bought a dummy.

Completely different weapon systems.

P

How convenient. Where did they get those weapons systems? The Russians keep denying they are sending the separatists weapons, so where are they getting them from? They are taking out large transports and even fighters (just took down 2 SU-25's today). Where did they get the weapons to do this if they are just "local self defense forces"?

Yeah. Keep lying.

Actually, he does have a point, the rebels hadn't shot ANYTHING down near that altitude before MH-17, if it had been them. Doesn't necessarily mean anything, but I personally find it fishy.

And to reiterate, both sides will try and blame each other all day long, there is still no concrete evidence from either.

a reply to: Zcustosmorum

Apparently you missed my point entirely...

Altitude aside, the rebels have shot down numerous Ukrainian military aircraft recently. If they are merely "local self defense forces" and not being armed by the Russians as moscow claims, where did they get the weapons to bring down military aircraft? They didn't get them from the Ukrainians. Furthermore, what of all the video evidence of Russian equipment crossing the Ukrainian border? I guess that never happened because SOCIAL MEDIA?

Let me just close by asking one more question: Why is it social media was good enough evidence to advance the Russian agenda in Syria when it came to chemical weapons attacks allegedly made by the Assad regime, but it is not good enough evidence that the rebels brought down a civilian airliner?

originally posted by: DeadSeraph
a reply to: Zcustosmorum

Apparently you missed my point entirely...

Altitude aside, the rebels have shot down numerous Ukrainian military aircraft recently. If they are merely "local self defense forces" and not being armed by the Russians as moscow claims, where did they get the weapons to bring down military aircraft? They didn't get them from the Ukrainians. Furthermore, what of all the video evidence of Russian equipment crossing the Ukrainian border? I guess that never happened because SOCIAL MEDIA?

Let me just close by asking one more question: Why is it social media was good enough evidence to advance the Russian agenda in Syria when it came to chemical weapons attacks allegedly made by the Assad regime, but it is not good enough evidence that the rebels brought down a civilian airliner?

C'mon mate, how nieve are you? There as bad as each other and can be just as nasty I would suspect. What you're saying still doesn't prove they did it and as I mentioned, even those weird "un-named U.S. sources" are saying there is no direct link to Russia.

Furthermore, as a counter-claim, the Russians say the plane was diverted from the international flight corridor, if Kiev knew the rebels had the Buk system, then wouldn't air traffic controllers know the plane had changed its course? Sounds a bit dangerous to me

There is no evidence and all social media is, is a platform for accusations.

Perhaps im late to the party but as an american i find this hoo-ha hard to believe. The president and all the other usual suspects were very quick to condemn russia but i havent heard anything from the other side yet, which makes me think they are sitting on something bigger.

Which could backfire on all of us in the usa.