Inmate's execution takes nearly TWO HOURS!

One .45 ACP round into the "fatal T" and the person is dead before the body hits the ground. Cost? $0.38 cents per round. Fast and cheap. Honestly cannot understand why this method isn't used, most cops clearly have no problem shooting someone far more innocent lately.

"Eye for an eye" is a Biblical term that has to do with payment equal to services provided. Possibly meant to remind the Jews that their taxes were paying for their streets, or to be fair in trade (not to charge more than a reasonable amount for the service provided).

A more proper term would be "Live by the sword, die by the sword" (imo)..

---

We can't cause suffering to end suffering.. That logic is flawed.

Some people are broken. They don't value life. It stands to reason that they don't value their own life. An execution (after extreme diligence) removes the issue by taking something of no value to the individual. It's a reasonable resolution.

Other folks can fall into the issue via emotion (cases of abuse), accidental, etc.. I'm not speaking about those people, to clarify (again, time and extreme diligence is necessary).

---

I've had two critical medical issues, one of which caused unimaginable pain. I went into the hospital and didn't come back out for 49 days.. My body has a tolerance for morphine, so the concentrated dilaudid has always been used.

I have a stockpile of prescribed high-dose dilaudid. The reason it's a stockpile is because it's not "comfortable" to take. I can deal with heavy pain, so if I can stand up and get myself to a hospital, then the pain isn't bad enough to warrant taking it (it's that uncomfortable).

Speaking from experience (medically) - having been given enough dilaudid to put a horse down - I've always been 100% aware of my surroundings and perfectly able to communicate, walk, etc.. There is no "fairy land".

It's my opinion therefore that death via dilaudid is not humane. However...

---

The United States has it's own stockpile of illegal drugs recovered. If no company wants to furnish a concoction, that stockpile could be used, possibly reducing taxes - as long as the person was unconscious prior to administration (no last minute high).

The reason smarter choices like that aren't used is likely financial.. It's the world we live in.. If one in five stand up, we can change those standards and make things better for all (yes, I do my part). The deep pockets of those making such decisions could be considered a method of tyranny. Tyranny is the reason our forefathers stood up, and laid down their lives. It's how we're able to have this conversation without fear. I'm just wanting to remind folks that if they don't like their world, they are empowered and can make changes.

---

/rant

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: 3u40r15m
a reply to: ManBehindTheMask



Fair enough. But I'm sure the family took pleasure

I bet not, i will try and find an actual answer on that..once again I say its very hard to keep up the kind of hate that requires..20 years..cmon man, you make peace with it at some point or likley you end up a miserable prick and maybee someone cant even make it 20 years carrying that kind of darkness..it eats your soul up
Perhaps you could but it think most at some point most people will come to terms.

Well than you would be betting wrong.

a reply to: Strayed

It depends on the family, some may enjoy seeing their loved ones murderer's execution going wrong and ending up as this one did while other families would feel outrage.

A friend of mine was murdered in a very violent manner. I was with his wife yesterday and she was disgusted by what happened in Arizona. She said to me "that makes us no better than them." Her husband was murdered and his killer(s) have yet to be apprehended. When they are, and if they get the death penalty she wants it to be done in a humane manner and suggested a quick gunshot to the head, I agree.

Ahh, he's guilty, right? Who cares if he suffers, right? Screw it
(end sarcasm)
The lot of you cheering on for his suffering are really sick, YOU are the reason we dont progress any further.
Dont tell me how you deny ignorance, thays a load of crap, youre as primitive and barbaric as our ancestors that swung from tree to tree

Go grab your pitchforks folks!!!

America can't even kill anybody anymore

originally posted by: crazyewok

Just google heroin or Opiate OD. Dont know if I can post as may break the T&C's on drugs.

But plenty of people who have OD on opiates and Benzo's have been saved and can tell there story's. Plus opiate and Benzo OD's are medically documented.

PS
Im anti Death penalty. No this guy should not have been executed. But he did NOT suffer. He got off easy in my books.

I have to strongly disagree with you on this matter. Feel free to PM me for more clarification because to explain my point I have to tread very lightly to avoid violating T&C. Mods, I apologize in advance and feel free to holler at me if I cross the line here but,coming from someone who has been on both sides of the coin, you do remember and you do feel what's going on and more so, you feel absolute terror when you realize what is happening. This isn't the case for everyone who suffers an opiate based overdose so in the case of this execution you could be correct that he felt nothing but it is equally possible he felt both pain and terror. I revived a kid one time who was able to recall everything we did while trying to keep him alive, I've got another friend who went down for the count, woke up in the hospital and realized it was 9 days later and yet another friend who was in a coma for a month, a semi conscious state for several more and never was the same again so it could be anywhere within that entire spectrum from black to white or a middle of the road grey area.

a reply to: lovebeck Why not kill these guys with that drug Michael Jackson killed himself with. You know the one they use to put you out for surgery? You would have no memory of the being near death even If you survived somehow. Just put people out with that drug till they stop breathing like Mike.

a reply to: crazyewok

Not sure about the convo you were responding to but, I have to agree, as a medical professional, with some of what you posted.

Most Heroin OD's are either Heroin that is cut with Fentanyl, a very powerful opioid used in surgery and ICU type settings or a high purity level (like what Peaches Geldof od'd on); when an addict falls off the wagon and goes back to using the same amount before they got clean, or when an addict mixes benzodiazepines and opiates. The synergistic effect totally shuts down their respiratory drive. They nod off and fall to sleep then, just stop breathing.

There is a cheap and easy medication available to combat the effects of Heroin withdrawal and many states are making it easier for known addicts to have access to this drug. It's called Narcan. It reverses the effects of the opiate (floods the opiate receptors with Narcan, pushing them off into oblivion). It works VERY well and VERY quick. Heroin addicts who have OD'd usually wake up VERY mad and VERY uncomfortable (oh well, they're alive).

There is also a drug that works on benzodiazepines the same way, but I have only seen it in a medical setting. It's called Romazicon. Works in a similar way as the Narcan, but for benzodiazepines.

When we have patients on PCA pumps or on heavy doses of narcotics (opiates) we ALWAYS keep the Narcan handy. I've given it many times when my patients got a tad too sleepy and their respirations dipped, usually after surgery when they were on a PCA pump.

However, I don't agree that the man executed didn't suffer. I doubt he was very tolerant of opiates (but, maybe he was & that's why he went on like that for 2 hours). I imagine he was somewhat aware that he could not breathe and was gasping for air. He was given midazolam (a pretty short acting IV benzo) and hydromorphone (aka Dilaudid, an opiate). I think the mistake they are making is they are using a pretty short acting benzo and, in all honesty, IV opiates do not last all that long, either. I say give them both of those drugs and a HUGE dose of Potassium Chloride IV to stop their heart. If they must continue to use these types of drugs, which are by no means the "right" kinds of drugs to use (or, they're not really giving them enough to kill them quick enough) then they should seal the deal and give the Potassium Cl last. That WILL work! Well, as long as the dose is large enough, of all three.

a reply to: Strayed
Well thats the answer..fair enough.
I hope the families can find some peace now.

Read the thread, see both sides of the discussion and do understand the "big picture" philosophical side of it. Having said that, if I'm honest - I still can't bring myself to much care about the fate of this guy.

a reply to: g146541

The only question on my mind, how long did his victims suffer, does he still have victims that are suffering?
Play ball!

Too bad he didn't suffer longer. Should has been 22 hours. Let him choke on his own vomit and go into convulsions. An eye for an eye!

Am I the only one who thinks these responses sound like they are coming from serial killers?..... Jesus..... The point of the death penalty is not retribution it is elimination of a societal threat. Anyone who wants to make it into something else probably was born a couple of centuries too late.

why don't they use what veterinarians use?

or hemlock!

a warm bath and a razor blade!

i don't feel bad for that guy at all.

25yrs on death row, what's a couple more hours?

originally posted by: Infinitis
a reply to: g146541

The only question on my mind, how long did his victims suffer, does he still have victims that are suffering?
Play ball!

Too bad he didn't suffer longer. Should has been 22 hours. Let him choke on his own vomit and go into convulsions. An eye for an eye!

Am I the only one who thinks these responses sound like they are coming from serial killers?..... Jesus..... The point of the death penalty is not retribution it is elimination of a societal threat. Anyone who wants to make it into something else probably was born a couple of centuries too late.

Don't be naive!!
Of course it is retribution, to believe otherwise is just a silly fairytale designed to make those against the death penalty sleep better at night.
If the PTB wanted to eliminate a societal threat they could just put you in solitary for the rest of your life.
Look at what they did with Chucky Manson, he has been effectively neutralized for a very long time now.
Unless Chucky was gonna get parole.....No I don't think he will.

originally posted by: Infinitis
a reply to: g146541

The only question on my mind, how long did his victims suffer, does he still have victims that are suffering?
Play ball!

Too bad he didn't suffer longer. Should has been 22 hours. Let him choke on his own vomit and go into convulsions. An eye for an eye!

Am I the only one who thinks these responses sound like they are coming from serial killers?..... Jesus..... The point of the death penalty is not retribution it is elimination of a societal threat. Anyone who wants to make it into something else probably was born a couple of centuries too late.

Seconded. Using a mix of drugs from unknown sources in a combination that hadn't been tried before is just asking for trouble. If the State has to get involved in the death penalty then it should make sure that it's quick and humane. Justice isn't about vengeance and it sure as hell shouldn't be about torture.

originally posted by: knoledgeispower
a reply to: lovebeck
It's because they have run out of the traditional formula for lethal injection.

Other companies were coming up with a solution but then when it was made public that those companies were supplying prisons with the stuff for lethal injections, those companies bowed out.

Since then they haven't come out with a better alternative and many people are suffering because of it. Part of me thinks, so what, they deserve to suffer. The other part of me thinks, death isn't punishment.

They used versed and hydromorphone (dilaudid) from what I saw on the news last night. He did get a lethal dose of them, so I wonder if he was doing drugs in prison because that would explain resistance to the respiratory depressive effects of the hydromorphone.

It may have looked a little unsettling but I doubt he suffered. The versed would have made him insensate as it is a sedative hypnotic. Both drugs give a rather nice high when injected until he was sedated into unconsciousness. The "gasping" was just the respiratory drive being suppressed.

originally posted by: lovebeck
a reply to: crazyewok

Not sure about the convo you were responding to but, I have to agree, as a medical professional, with some of what you posted.

Most Heroin OD's are either Heroin that is cut with Fentanyl, a very powerful opioid used in surgery and ICU type settings or a high purity level (like what Peaches Geldof od'd on); when an addict falls off the wagon and goes back to using the same amount before they got clean, or when an addict mixes benzodiazepines and opiates. The synergistic effect totally shuts down their respiratory drive. They nod off and fall to sleep then, just stop breathing.

There is a cheap and easy medication available to combat the effects of Heroin withdrawal and many states are making it easier for known addicts to have access to this drug. It's called Narcan. It reverses the effects of the opiate (floods the opiate receptors with Narcan, pushing them off into oblivion). It works VERY well and VERY quick. Heroin addicts who have OD'd usually wake up VERY mad and VERY uncomfortable (oh well, they're alive).

There is also a drug that works on benzodiazepines the same way, but I have only seen it in a medical setting. It's called Romazicon. Works in a similar way as the Narcan, but for benzodiazepines.

When we have patients on PCA pumps or on heavy doses of narcotics (opiates) we ALWAYS keep the Narcan handy. I've given it many times when my patients got a tad too sleepy and their respirations dipped, usually after surgery when they were on a PCA pump.

However, I don't agree that the man executed didn't suffer. I doubt he was very tolerant of opiates (but, maybe he was & that's why he went on like that for 2 hours). I imagine he was somewhat aware that he could not breathe and was gasping for air. He was given midazolam (a pretty short acting IV benzo) and hydromorphone (aka Dilaudid, an opiate). I think the mistake they are making is they are using a pretty short acting benzo and, in all honesty, IV opiates do not last all that long, either. I say give them both of those drugs and a HUGE dose of Potassium Chloride IV to stop their heart. If they must continue to use these types of drugs, which are by no means the "right" kinds of drugs to use (or, they're not really giving them enough to kill them quick enough) then they should seal the deal and give the Potassium Cl last. That WILL work! Well, as long as the dose is large enough, of all three.

Narcan doesn't help with withdrawal, it is an opiate reversal agent and can even push people into withdrawal because it is almost entirely an antagonist. The drugs you are thinking of are the more agonist-antagonists like Naltrexone and Buprenorphine. With those you get enough of the agonist part to prevent withdrawal and those are now being used in the addicted population for treatment.

a reply to: NavyDoc

Exactly what I have been trying to point out on the last few pages.

The gasping was just autonomic response he would have been unaware of it. He would have been in a complete opiate/benzo high and likely in unconsciousness.

From personal experience when in hospital I was given morphine and threw up, I was completely unaware that I had.

What you need to understand is even if unconsciousness or in a complete unaware high your autonomic nervous system still try s to act to keep you alive such as gasping, but you are completely unaware.

originally posted by: crazyewok
I think people are missing a key point here.

He would not have suffered.

It only appeared he suffered.

He was executed using a cocktail of benzodiazepines and Hydro Morphine. He would not have been aware of what was happening. He would have been in happy fairy land.


He died in a way I and you could only have dreamed of. Most of us will die of cancer in a drawn out death over months or pissing ourself with a stroke or in agony of a heart attack.

2 hours in a Morphine and Benzo induced bliss? Thats a sweat way to go.

Sure to the outsider it appeared he was suffering but trust me medically he would not have been aware of anything.

He died the same way a heroine addict would die. Unaware of the world and in a state of Euphoria.

I like having a fellow medical scientist on this site. Bravo Ewok, for your knowledgeable input.