I Want Opinions and Facts

quango

Speaking of weapons, here's the most obvious part - the police/military have far better weapons, equipment, vehicles, training, procedures, strategy, resources, etc., etc....

And just who makes, supplies and delivers all of those weapons, equipment, vehicles, training, procedures, strategy, resources, etc., etc.... Wouldn't be us common folk now would it?

Supply chain problem here people and not a trivial one. Maybe someone has planned this all down to T but so much infrastructure would need to remain in place and be unaffected to even begin a round up. Round us up at night and put in a curfew - you realize how much of the economy is 24x7x365?? Hospitals to treat wounded - who's staffing them and delivering their supplies now?? Electricity production, gas and oil - food?? The military buildup in the 2 Iraq's were multiple month long projects just to get the people and gear in place and us civvies helped (civ transport, cargo, food etc.)

Ok, as for numbers lets say half - so here in LA LA land we've got maybe 20,000 people to round up 2 million adult detainees (down from 4) Lets say 2 people to round up, detain and process 1 person - we'll assume nobody is working back in the CiC and they do it 24x7 and you're looking at 200 days - you also have to do it over 465.9 square miles!!!! Scale problem....

The alien mark of the beast thing notwithstanding I don't think it's feasible because of both supply chain and scale and I think each presents by itself, a strong argument that a NWO overthrow/assimilation/genocide is not likely....

Originally posted by thelibra
Indigo Child, I mean no disrespect, but I just can't see the point in trying to continue this arguement. There's no way to argue against unsupported claims of bogeymen or ghosts. I've asked you for research and proof to convince of your side, and all you've done is quote more movie references. I've laid down a path of reason and logic to show that the world works in certain ways because those ways make sense, and not because of shadow puppeteers. In some cases I've given you concrete proof on a silver platter, only to have it dismissed with a "No, it's not! You're wrong, and I'm right."

Translation: I have nothing left, my training has been exceeded, so I'm now going to speak bollocks. Good day.

[edit on 13-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Translation: I have nothing left, my training has been exceeded, so I'm now going to speak bollocks. Good day.

No, there's simply a time when one has to recognize a bad investment--such as using logic, reason, and proof in a thread such as this. Some people, such as you, want to live in a world of fantasy and movie scripts, and nothing will convince them otherwise. Others, such as myself, prefer real life.

I know this won't do a lick of good, but if the OWG forms in my lifetime, I'll eat my words and regret every remark I made. But to be perfectly honest, I cannot live my life as if all the movies were real. For Chrissakes, your arguement consisted almost entirely of Matrix quotes, and then you started quoting "The Skulls". A really bad movie at that.

How can you honestly expect anyone reasonable to take you seriously?

No, there's simply a time when one has to recognize a bad investment--such as using logic, reason, and proof in a thread such as this. Some people, such as you, want to live in a world of fantasy and movie scripts, and nothing will convince them otherwise. Others, such as myself, prefer real life.

What logic, reason and proof? Bolloks.

I know this won't do a lick of good, but if the OWG forms in my lifetime, I'll eat my words and regret every remark I made. But to be perfectly honest, I cannot live my life as if all the movies were real. For Chrissakes, your arguement consisted almost entirely of Matrix quotes, and then you started quoting "The Skulls". A really bad movie at that.

Even more bolloks. I never said the Matrix was real. Yet, the philosophy of the movie is similar to the NWO. "Take the red pill" and the "matrix" have become popular concepts for our society that trascend the movie itself. In the same way movies in the past have formed part of our cultural language.

You would have to be really ignorant to think movies cannot contain lessons for real life or depict parts of reality, because they do. And I've never heard of the movie Skulls. However, I'm assuming it has something to do with the Skull and bones. Which, if you actually bothered to do any research, is a real organization based in Yale college, that performs the rituals I outlined, and yes Bush and Kerry are both members and have admitted it on national television.

How can you honestly expect anyone reasonable to take you seriously?

In the same way you can expect them to take your bolloks as logic, reason and proof

[edit on 13-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Would that all I had to do was dismiss an arguement instantly with the word "bollocks"... I'd be able to get away with anything.

"Well, Libra, you robbed the bank, we have it on film, we have the note, with your fingerprints on it, and traced the serial numbers of the money afterward, and even have the weapon and Nixon mask you wore, with your hair follicals inside it. What do you have to say for yourself?"

"Bollocks!"

"Oh. Well, okay then... you're free to go."

...when you learn how to debate like a grown up, I'll continue this.

Originally posted by thelibra
Would that all I had to do was dismiss an arguement instantly with the word "bollocks"... I'd be able to get away with anything.

"Bolloks" is a slang word we have here in England. When someone is talking out of their arse, clap-trap, rubbish, we say "you are talking bollocks" As in, when you say you are talking logic, reason and proof; you're talking of your arse, clap-trap, rubbish. I just prefer the word bolloks it has a zing to it.

So far everything you have said has been bogus and has been debunked by me. Yet, you continue to maintain, you have logic, reason and proof, even though you are losing this debate hopelessly. You are not a lawyer that has to fight for the side he takes allegiance too. You want to find out if the NWO exists or not, and you're late into the show as well, and we've already covered a lot of your newbie questions and apprehensions, because of our own research. So, now that all your points, questions, doubts have been answered, what is your business here?

I have a no BS approach. If you have valid points, I will talk to you in a respectful and sensible manner. However, how do you expect me to take you seriously, when you say things like "hive-mind is unification" or "every government is an oligarchy" or this is all "movies". You did not even know what the Patriot Act(I and II) was, and you had the audacity to ridicule what I told you about the Skull and Bones, even though it actually exists. It just shows you have not bothered to do any research at all, and are speaking from ignorance. Something we deny here.

[edit on 13-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Very logical reasoning in all of your responses on this topic, thelibra.. The NWO conspiracy theorists, many differing in view, have incorporated just about every other conspiracy theory out there, and even invented a few more in order to make their own seem plausible, and they still cannot agree amongst themselves as to who will rule and how it will work.

We have the mega wealthy in the Rothschilds of France; The Rockefellers of the USA; The Bush family; The British monarcy; The Jews; The Opus Dei; The Bilderberg group; Illumnati; The Masons: The Skull and Bones: The Reptilians; The Greys: The Chupa something or other: Russia: China: USA: Year 2012; Aliens ready to attack: meteors: Nuclear war: The sun is dying: The Mark of the Beast: The End Times: The Red Pill: Stargates and various other film premises. All of these have been tied to this new world order, but when the challenge is made to explain who will willingly give power to whom so that they might be subservient to the winner, then we are met with all sorts of fanciful and head spinning allegories:

Bush is related to the British monarchy, from some obscure line centuries ago; They in turn are not really British but of Russian or German heritage: The Rothschilds are Jews and they control the white house; the reptilians are actually disguised as all of the elite: the greys are just watching it all. The various secret societies all plan their own takeover, but they all meet once a year in Europe under the Bilderberg umbrella, and under the Illuminati umbrella in the US, to cement their plans for takeover and how to administer the blue pill. Its supposedly all a lie, there really is no religious division; the political diversity of Russia, China and the USA is just a ruse, after all they will all merge their military to subdue the masses. The reptilians control everything from the middle of the earth including the minds of the elite, since they are the elite and shapeshift to hide that fact from us. They are the devil too, before you know it, they�ll be planting 666 on our foreheads, and that is, well everything from your first slate to futuristic implants. Of course, in between all that, we�ll have nuclear war, a meteor slam into the earth, aliens attacking, and then a beast rising up from the sea to fight the ultimate world destroying battle with a guy sitting on a cloud, the sun blows up, and the theory becomes reality.

have made for some very intersting reading, and even managed to have a lil fight between indigo and the libra. i know sometimes when people start debating and discussing it can be very easy to see it one way and one way only, but we have to remember since this is a consipiracy, this being the nwo, their is no 100% factual hypothesis on the issue at hand. so therefore you guys dont need to be taking personal shots at eachother over it. you both have made some very logical and well thought out ideas. now next time i dont want any personal attacks on my threads please. we are all one people you guys and girls. no reason to be fighting with eachother over opinions. just keep your minds open. and ears open even wider. if anyone else wants to chime in and post your thoughts, dont be bashfull newbies. keep reading and start posting, it took me about 2 weeks before i start posting, but now i feel more comfortable, since i have did more reading and brain absorbing the past month or so that i have in my whole life. and i am being truthful with that statement. before the only things i have ever read was an autobiography on tom landry the dallas cowboys football coach, and the sports page. p.s. indigo and libra, i would appreciate it if you guys made up and shook hands on it.

[edit on 14-12-2004 by joe751]

We are not having a fight. There is nothing to figher over really.

Somewhereinbetween, I for one, do not ascribe to any of those conspiracy theories of greys, reptillians, fake-invasion, 2012, rising Atlantis etc

Joe, there is more evidence to support the NWO than there is evidence to support that 9/11 was Osama Bin Laden's brainchild. What I am showing you is actual 100% facts. There is no conspiracy theory; it's conspiracy fact. I do have some theories that it may involve aliens, but that is actually a theory, and I am keeping it seperate from the facts.

That is the problem in discussing conspiracies. There is always going to be someone who is going to say "well it's all theories, there is no proof" this is fallacious logic of the Randi fame, that something must be proven before it is investigated. There is a lot of evidence for the NWO, and the funny thing about it, it's all in the public domain.

Originally posted by joe751
p.s. indigo and libra, i would appreciate it if you guys made up and shook hands on it.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
We are not having a fight. There is nothing to figher over really.

Like Indigo says, there's really nothing to fight about. We just got very...spirited...in support of our sides. We'll be making nicenice on the other threads...so long as we're not on opposite sides of the debate.



[edit on 12/14/2004 by thelibra]

The best thing is to just study and keep up the good work that one does!

I still want facts, Anyway I wait and hope-LOL.

Please remove Canada from the OWG list. I'm pleased to report that Canada is now in opposition to the NWO. I've often been puzzled as to why we have such an inept government here; now I think I understand. It has been trying to save itself by pretending to be part of the NWO, but instead, is behaving like the Good Soldier Schweik to undermine the NWO. Its all so obvious to me now.

This is going to be my first real post here and I apologise for bumping an old thread, but this seems to be an appropriate place to ask some questions. Since I first found this site, the theory behind the NWO is the one that interests me the most. Now as things stand I have not really formed an overall opinion on the matter, I am just starting to collate the information in my own mind.

The posts that interest me in this thread are generally those written by I_Child. It was with great interest that I read these particular replies, but in my own mind I could see certain flaws in the arguments that were being put forth. Maybe these flaws have answers, I dont really know. Hence the following questions and points.

Going right back to I_Childs first post in this topic.

The purpose of the NWO

To establish a facist One World Government, an oligarchy of men-god elites with super-technology, while maintaining and micromagaging a small slave/worker population, enhanced with technology, and linked cybernetically to a hive-mind.

Two things spring to mind here, the first is the word 'facist'. Something seems very wrong with this for several reasons. By its very nature this form of government as I understand it involves a centralisation of all authority that is led by one 'Dictator' type figure. Now, when I look at the make up of the upper echelons of the supposed make-up of the NWO it is not under the control of one 'family group', but several. All of these very powerful in their own right. How do you suppose which one will actually assume the mantle of 'Dictator'? Or are you assuming they will rule by council?

The second is this slave/worker idea. I look at the men and the groups that are supposed to be at the top of this chain. Men who all have the benefits of history to look back on, men who are not stupid. This fascist type of government over vast areas has been tried before many times during the course of mankinds history and has failed every time. What makes you so sure they will try to take mankind down the same road again? Whilst there has (from what I have seen so far) been many different theories to the form of government the NWO will take, that is all it is, a theory. Or am I wrong and there is evidence pointing to one form of government over another?

This next one may be easily answered I am sure, but it is still a question that my own mind raised.

All that is needed to complete the OWG is to get rid of the opposition:

1. Liberals
2. Islamic nations
3. Sovereigns

Well if the NWO already has control in the nations you mention. Then why dont they/haven't they just nuked them already? It would kill 2 of your birds with one stone. First it would eliminate any effective opposition and second, it would go along way towards the population reduction you are talking about. After this they could openly step in and take control with almost no real opposition. After all who is going to argue with a group of people willing to kill millions of people.

I guess I just dont understand the need for scapegoats. In your NWO world the government will have total power, who will they have to answer to?

Then you are deluding yourself like the rest. Your vote does not matter. Hear it again. Your vote does not matter. It never did. The leaders are selected by their bloodlines of uber-rich families. There has not been a single president of the US that has been a common man. All of the elections have been fradulent. I do not have to have a degree in politcs to know that. The skull and bones and the masons are where the leaders are chosen. This time around, both Bush and Kerry, were both Skull and bones. There have been three presidents who were Skull and Bones. The state is run by a shadow government, a government behind the elected government, and this is an actual fact, jack.

This paragraph really gets me. Lets take for example one of the most far reaching decisions made by an American President and one that has a huge significance on the formation of a NWO. The negotiation and formation of NATO. This was negotiated and signed by President Truman. A man who only became president in the first place when Roosevelt died. Before Roosevelts death, Truman was pretty much a non entity in the White House.

As to this business of no president being a common man, is this really such a hard thing to believe? Power breeds power, it always has and always will, why because of the access to education and people that those that come from the various bloodlines have as they grow up. This is no real surprise. You also mention the connection to the Skull and Bones. The fact that 3 presidents have come from the Skull and Bones is, whilst maybe on the surface a surprising number. In reality it is nothing more than a blip. Think about it, Skull and Bones is one of the two 'senior' fraternity houses at Yale University. One of the top universities in America. Although bloodline can play a part in admittance to the house, it is well documented that this is not the only way in. The fact that some of the brightest political minds in America passed through this house is no real surprise. (I exclude Bush jr from the phrase 'bright political minds' as on a personal level I think he is a bit of a nutjob).

Besides all this, who holds the seat of President shouldn't really matter to your theories, because according to the 'Shadow Government' theory. It does not really matter who is President, as the real power remains 'behind the scenes'

This is reality. The elite bloodlines that rule this world are occultists. Are you surprised that even Hitler and the Nazi's were involved in the occult.

Yes Hitler had an interest in the occult, but what on earth has that got to do with the NWO? Why even mention it, it is totally unrelated.

Now as to the occultist connection, yes I have looked at this and I still cannot find any real evidence that this is true. Unless of course you include the stupid notion that fraternaty rites are based on occultist teachings (this is utter nonsense by the way). In fact there is just as much conjecture that the opposite is true and these people are attempting to form a single government because they believe it is the only way for mankind to move forwards.

This to me is the real question about the NWO. Not whether it exists or not, but what its motives are. On the one hand you have I_Childs idea that they are part of the root of all evil and want to drive human kind into a form of slavery. Or, they want to help push Mankind forwards and realise the only way this can be done with the erasure (as far as government is concerned) of national boundaries.

I still haven't seen enough evidence either way as to what is the correct answer to this solution, but the logical answer to me, seems to be the second one. The belief backgrounds that we can see of these people with regards to governing people and the religious backgrounds of most of these people all point to that.

To conclude this (overlong) post. I will again say that the above are only points and questions that I am forced to ask. The answers to which seem to be important when coming to conclusions with regards to the existance and nature of the NWO