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I Want Opinions and Facts

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posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 01:44 PM
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I would've said that the NWO exists only in the minds of paranoiacs, and that it all came about because old Bush the First talked about a "new world order" where I believe he meant a post-Cold War (which, in case you didin't notice, we won) World with the increaseing number of western-style countries incorporating representative government, rights for all, and a market economy becoming a majority.

Other than that, though, i don't believe any of this NWo crapola ....
...although I wouldn't be too sure about old libra; that boy has some good ideas.

I could tell you a lot more, but I need to check with the Green Building first.




posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by wecomeinpeace
Currently we have checks and measures to supposedly prevent the placing of absolute power in the hands of a few. So in the current political setup of the West we, at the very least, have the illusion of freedom. Under NWO rule, such checks and measures would be non-existent, and the word of the few would be the law and the only law.

In that case, it would be more specifically a Despotism than the more broad term of Oligarchy. The U.S. is, technically, an Oligarchy, because while We, The People, elect our government (or most of them), it is -they- who technically run the country.

A PURE Democracy in which every single citizen has a vote in every single aspect of government would be an example of a non-oligarchic government, but it is considered by many that this could lead to mob-rule. We, however, are a Republic, and elect representatives to run it for us...


Originally posted by wecomeinpeace
I can't speak for I_child, but I think what he means by a hive mind is that every single unit or person of society has the same thoughts, goals, morals and mindset. No individualism, resistance or free-thinking is tolerated. Those who exhibit such traits are eliminated as a threat to the greater good.


Hmmm... So it would be more of a Unification type government then...
Okay... I ken...

---


Originally posted by Off_The_Street
I would've said that the NWO exists only in the minds of paranoiacs, and that it all came about because old Bush the First talked about a "new world order"


Actually, it's been a fear of the people since before the time of George Orwell's "1984"... It was a fear by the writers of the U.S. Constitution (whom had just come from a Totalitarian Monarchy), and even going back to Greek Philosophers (such as Plato in "The Republic", I believe)... Probably more before them, but historic literature on the subject gets spotty before then.

Personally, I believe it is this fear of "A New World Order" that has kept it from happening... sort of like how a fear of rabies will keep most people from petting strangely hostile dogs.

So while I don't personally believe anyone is about to get control of the world (except myself, of course), I think it's a healthy fear because it prevents it from occurring.


Originally posted by Off_The_Street
Other than that, though, i don't believe any of this NWo crapola ....
...although I wouldn't be too sure about old libra; that boy has some good ideas.

I could tell you a lot more, but I need to check with the Green Building first.


L
L

Excellent! Shall I sign you up for the extra potato ration? ....Or an entire city?

The Green Building shall encompass all!



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 03:11 PM
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4. what is their exact purpose


Hold up... first off, why does it have to be "Men"-god elites? It could just as easily be Women-god elites... or did you mean "men" as in, "human", and not gender-specific?


Are you a woman? I mean in terms of human.


Secondly, what difference is there between an Oligarchy and any other form of government? An Oligarchy simply means that a few people rule. This is the case in just about every government.


No, an Oligarchy is not every government, otherwise we would be in trouble. An olgarchy is a government where absolute power resides in the hands of a select few of weathy, powerful people/families.

en.wikipedia.org...

Oligarchy is a form of government where most political power effectively rests with a small segment of society (typically the most powerful, whether by wealth, military strength, ruthlessness, or political influence). The word oligarchy is from the Greek for "few" and "rule". Some political theorists have argued that all societies are inevitably oligarchies no matter the supposed political system.

Oligarchies are often controlled by a few powerful families whose children are raised and mentored to become inheritors of the power of the oligarchy, often at some sort of expense to those governed. In contrast to aristocracy ("government by the 'best'"), this power may not always be exercised openly, the oligarchs preferring to remain "the power behind the throne", exerting control through economic means. Although Aristotle pioneered the use of the term as a synonym for rule by the rich, for which the exact term is plutocracy, oligarchy is not always a rule by wealth, as oligarchs can simply be a privileged cadre. It has also been suggested that most communist states fit the definition of oligarchy.



Third, a hive-mind, by neccessity, would not require slaves or leaders, except possibly to delegate. It cannot be corrupt, because a hive-mind is always acting in the best interests of the hive. Observe ants and bees. They have a Queen, but do they take orders from her? No. She's just the one who gets to breed. The hive runs itself.


I think you are taking the hive-mind a bit too literally. What I am saying is that the slave/worker population would be deprived of individualism, free will and function and think mechanically and according to the hive mind, that would be based on the will off the men-god elites.


Lastly, I think that technology in and of itself is too weak a force to compel people to follow a one-world government. The idea itself MUST be appealing enough to the masses to allow it to happen, and for all the various cultures and countries that exist on Earth, it would have to be a concept so universally appealing that either almost anyone could accept it, or that they could accept genocide to enforce it.


Well, then you are obviously not aware that the NWO has been in the pipelines for a very long time, and nor are you aware that the OWG is forming as we speak. Further, the diversity of cultures you speak of is already homogenized to the global western culture, and the world economy and political dynamics are now under a global body and regulated by the European Empire. More than 90% of the worlds economy and resources is controlled by the European Empire.

All that is needed to complete the OWG is to get rid of the opposition:

1. Liberals
2. Islamic nations
3. Sovereigns

The following nations are already under the OWG: US, UK, GERMANY, ITALY, ISRAEL, SWITZERLAND, CANADA, MEXICO, MOST OF EUROPE, AUSTRALIA, JAPAN, SOUTH AFRICA, MUCH OF AFRICA, JORDAN AND POSSIBLY INDIA

The only nations that are opposed to it are Russia, China, North Korea and some Middle eastern countries. This is why they are the axis of the evil today. However, for political reasons, US has stopped short of including Russia and China in the list. To complete the OWG they need WWIII - which is also taking form as we speak.

[edit on 10-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 04:56 PM
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People fail to realize (or understand) the distributed nature of the global economy and the freedoms and perks that all of the say $1M to $100M dollar business owners out there - and there are ten's of millions of them worldwide. Do a search on just HNWI's or High Net Worth Individuals. In 2002 there were like 7 MILLION of them and they controlled 26 trillion dollars of the global economy. So tell me are all 7 million of them in on it because they like their big houses and yachts and vacations and good food and someone has to provide all that stuff for them.

Just think about the keyboards you are typing on and the thousands of people from the oil field to the delivery guy or retail clerk that got you that keyboard. It's like a pyramid, if you take out the bottom, the top will crumble. There is no way to even take out a small portion of that without having the global economy come to a screeching halt. Very few companies control everything from the raw materials to the ultimate sale these days. It's all outsourced and tasked to specialists along the way.

Ok, here's a fact for you - there are ~10,000 cops for 4 million people here in LA. Even add in maybe another ~20,000 military and you really think they can round up or assimilate 4 million people and that's just LA?? Especially when those people make the guns and ammo and boots and provide the food and gas for those cops and military??

Not going to happen - it's all about scale now people - maybe back in the 30's or 40's when information and production were really controlled by a very few. Now it's too distributed and there are too many people with a vested interest in maintaining their freedoms and perks to ever let anything happen - and we have guns too.... Aliens - well, prepare to be eaten I suppose and hope you give them a nasty case of the runs....



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 05:14 PM
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Hate to post a one-liner, but it seems you skipped the bits about global genocide[/] and population reduction.



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by bobjohnson
Have any of you seen The Capitalist Conspiracy. I downloaded it a few days ago from here

conspiracy.hopto.org:6969...

It is a allegedly a NWO documentry from late 60s and seems to be legit

It has some excellent info on it which i am going to research

I agree with steveo42 in the linked thread and to be honest NWO is the wrong name.

i'm pretty sure the NATO countries are ran by shadow government that meets at CFR and the Bilderberg group that is using the international institutions they set up after WW2 to privitise and therefore own the world.


How much deeper than that it goes I don't know.

There is so much info/dis-info its hard to know whats real.

Also has anyone seen Globalism: the Program

Its a presentation by General Benton K. Partin I'm trying to download now will let you know if any good.


U kick *bum, thanks for the link ... U get my WAY ABOVE Vote..

[edit on 10/12/04 by dnero6911]



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 05:54 PM
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wecomeinpeace

Like I said, you take out the bottom the top will crumble. Even if you could round us all up and kill us off, who's going to make the coffee, or supply the gas or tend the fields.

You think the top of the NWO is going to take a hit their well paid lifestyle (and make their own breakfast) to now control us for some Orwellian fantasy state?? Just who pays them anyway - i.e. makes all the stuff that they sell and who buys it - us sheeple and if we are not around what fun are they going to have?? The scale is just too big these days. Those people that have to kill us off also have to be fed and clothed and paid and if we are gone, who is going to do that for them - some fanciful new robotic workers or clone army?? Not going to happen, unless there is some global catastrophe that severely disrupts things and if that happens those supposed NWO leader types are going to have just as rough of a time of it as the rest of us....



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 06:12 PM
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Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Are you a woman? I mean in terms of human.


I fail to see how this answers the question. Perhaps I should clarify.
I mean to ask: Are you saying that MALES are the ones who are attempting to form to OWG, are are you saying man as in humanity?

And by the way, I'm male. I consider myself a man, but at the tender age of 29, that could still be brought into question by those older than myself.


Originally posted by Indigo_Child
No, an Oligarchy is not every government, otherwise we would be in trouble. An olgarchy is a government where absolute power resides in the hands of a select few of weathy, powerful people/families.


And then you support it with this?

en.wikipedia.org...


Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Oligarchy is a form of government where most political power effectively rests with a small segment of society (typically the most powerful, whether by wealth, military strength, ruthlessness, or political influence). The word oligarchy is from the Greek for "few" and "rule". Some political theorists have argued that all societies are inevitably oligarchies no matter the supposed political system.


I'm afraid it doesn't fit your definition. Though I know what you are trying to say, the word you are looking for is "Despotism". To call it an Oligarchy makes it very unspecific. Every country's governmental system I can think of is an Oligarchy, and your own supporting paste validates it. In America, the few govern. Granted, we do elect The Few, but they are the ones who govern. Not us.


Originally posted by Indigo_Child
I think you are taking the hive-mind a bit too literally.


Indeed. And that was cleared up in my last post as well. The term you are looking for is "Unification".

I really don't mean to nit-pick, in fact, I'm actually trying to help. But if you go around using the wrong terms, people educated enough to recognize the difference will get hung up on those flaws, and not take you seriously. However, I do applaud your spelling and grammar.


Originally posted by Indigo_Child
What I am saying is that the slave/worker population would be deprived of individualism, free will and function and think mechanically and according to the hive mind, that would be based on the will off the men-god elites.


There's that Men-God Elite thing again. Are you talking about Males specifically, or "men" as in, the shortened word for "humans?"


Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Well, then you are obviously not aware that the NWO has been in the pipelines for a very long time, and nor are you aware that the OWG is forming as we speak.


I mean no disrespect when I say this, but "What Pipelines?" I must sound like a complete jerk here, but really, I'm curious or I wouldn't be asking. Do you mean the oil pipelines? The gas pipelines? Some metaphorical pipeline of the infrastructure? The beaurocracy surrounding the system?

And, further, no disrespect intended, but the OWG has been forming since the first government realized it could expand. From Ancient Egypt to Present-Day, the OWG has been forming, and foiled, over and over. So I'm not technically disagreeing with you, I'm just saying this is nothing new, and is about as much to be concerned about as War. That is to say, it is a concern, and a valid one, but nothing Earth-shattering or indicative of End-Times.


Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Further, the diversity of cultures you speak of is already homogenized to the global western culture, and the world economy and political dynamics are now under a global body and regulated by the European Empire. More than 90% of the worlds economy and resources is controlled by the European Empire.


Really? I had no idea! I must have missed that one. I don't suppose you could provide some articles to back this up, just so I can take an educated approach to the thing. Also, what sorts of resources, specifically are you talking about?

Surely not People (who are a resource), because I believe several credible resources will state that India and China are the top dogs in this department. Though it is conceivable that Europe is hiding an extra 2 billion people underground somewhere, awaiting the right moment to strike.

And I'm also guessing you don't mean Land (another valuable resource). For your convenience...

LARGEST COUNTRIES (in sq mi)*: 2004
1. Russia 6,592,735
2. Canada 3,855,081
3. United States 3,717,792
4. China 3,705,386
5. Brazil 3,286,470
6. Australia 2,967,893
7. India 1,269,338
8. Argentina 1,068,296
9. Kazakhstan 1,049,150
10. Sudan 967,493

(source)

I've never been that good at geography, truth be told, but I'm pretty sure that none of those places are in Europe.

How about Oil? Yeah! Oil! The Black Gold of the 21st Century... Who has the biggest reserves, I wonder?

Proved oil reserves (in 1000 million barrels)
rank country end 2003 percent of total
1. Saudi Arabia 262.7 22.89%
2. Iran 130.7 11.39%
3. Iraq 115.0 10.02%
4. United Arab Emirates 97.8 8.52%
5. Kuwait 96.5 8.41%
6. Venezuela 78.0 6.80%
7. Russian Federation 69.1 6.02%
8. Libya 3.14%
9. Nigeria 34.3 2.99%
10. USA 30.7 2.67%

(source)

Errr... okay, maybe not Oil, then?
Perhaps you meant just the GDP (Gross Domestic Product) of countries?

Countries with highest GDP
rank country GDP 2000 in US$ GDP 2003 in US$
1. United States 9,762,099,953,664 10,881,610,000,000
2. Japan 4,763,832,811,520 4,326,444,000,000
3. Germany 1,870,276,460,544 2,400,655,000,000
4. United Kingdom 1,437,994,713,088 1,794,858,000,000
5. France 1,308,399,370,240 1,747,973,000,000
6. Italy 1,074,762,612,736 1,465,895,000,000
7. China 1,080,741,396,480 1,409,852,000,000
8. Spain 561,376,854,016 836,100,300,000
9. Canada 706,646,638,592 834,390,200,000
10. South Asia 596,633,190,400 755,771,800,000

(source)

Hmmm... okay, nice. Now we're getting somewhere. That's a lot of money those Euro-trash are making. It comes to a grand total of $8,245,481,300,000 as of 2003. After that, the European countries taper off considerably, but we'll be generous and bump the whole estimate up to a full $10 trillion. That still roughly a trillion short of the United states. My math was never perfect either, but I'm pretty sure that 90% is right out...

So which resources were you talking about, and what sources? I believe I must have not been paying attention...


Originally posted by Indigo_Child
All that is needed to complete the OWG is to get rid of the opposition:

1. Liberals
2. Islamic nations
3. Sovereigns


Okay, again, some things to clear up... We'll take these one at a time.

1. Liberals - I find this interesting, because in order to have OWG, you would need a pretty big Government, right? And from everything I've ever read about Government and Politics, Liberals are in favor of Big Government. They want more social programs, which require more beaurocracy, which require more staff and more funding, and ultimately, more taxes. Conservatives, conversely, want Smaller Government. Again, another good example are
social programs, which they are always trying to cut. So it would seem antithetical for Liberals to oppose OWG. Conservatives, however, would be against it, because of the cost. I'm also led to understand that, while Conservatives do wish to impose their morals on others, most would see hell freeze over before they let someone else impose their morals on them. So it would appear both are opposed to this One World Government of yours. I'm afraid you will have to do away with both Liberals AND Conservatives.

2. Islamic States - Every Muslim I have ever personally known has been well educated and tolerant of other people's religious beliefs. They are, for the most part, a quiet bunch who keep their head down, work hard, and always have a patient ear and an interesting response for those of a theologian bent. Now, granted, there are some extremist Muslims who have done horrible horrible things in the past, which are NOT pardoned by the Quraan, despite their twisted interpretation of it, but the same could be said of Christians, Hoodoun, Hindu, and even the gentle Buddhists. So I'm afraid you will need to include ALL religions in this. Not just Islam.

3. Sovereigns - This one perplexes me the most, as there doesn't appear to be such a word, except in the case of coinage. So perhaps you meant Sovereign.

sovereign - n.

1. One that exercises supreme, permanent authority, especially in a nation or other governmental unit, as:
1. A king, queen, or other noble person who serves as chief of state; a ruler or monarch.
2. A national governing council or committee.
2. A nation that governs territory outside its borders.
3. A gold coin formerly used in Great Britain.

(source

Now why, pray tell, would a One World Government want to do away with any form of governing body, when it, by definition, is one? You must have meant that it wants to do away with all governments except itself.

...So... it would appear better to say:

"All that is needed to complete the OWG is to get rid of the opposition:

1. Any form of political affiliation (or at least, both Liberals AND Conservatives)
2. Any form of religion
3. Any form of government"

Yes, I could agree with that statement... All that has to happen is for the NWO to achieve their OWG is to pretty much get rid of everyone, everything, and every country... However, as this task is--to say the least--daunting, I'm really not too concened.


Originally posted by Indigo_Child
The following nations are already under the OWG: US, UK, GERMANY, ITALY, ISRAEL, SWITZERLAND, CANADA, MEXICO, MOST OF EUROPE, AUSTRALIA, JAPAN, SOUTH AFRICA, MUCH OF AFRICA, JORDAN AND POSSIBLY INDIA


Oh my good Lord! Someone had better go tell them right now! Errr... wait a second... I'M IN THE U.S.... I don't see any OWG at all. I see a nation divided on itself, and ALMOST half of it is really really pissed at the current government... I don't see a mandatory religion anywhere? Do you? In fact, wouldn't you know, I went to temple just last week, a church the week before that, and recently dusted my shrine to Worldwide religions. I've yet to be tattooed with a bar code, or have a chip implanted in my skull. By gods, where is this OWG, so that I can shoot them with my legally owned gun???

I'm afraid that you'll have to remove the U.S. from this list of nations controlled by the OWG. I can't personally speak for other countries though...
True, Bush is a total arsehead, and he's probably going to set us back 50 years, but the fact remains that he'll be gone in 4 years, and some other arsehead will come into office.


Originally posted by Indigo_Child
The only nations that are opposed to it are Russia, China, North Korea and some Middle eastern countries. This is why they are the axis of the evil today.


Really? Hot damn. Perhaps you should move there and join the resistance. Seriously! I mean, if they are opposing the OWG, and living lives full and enriched with happiness and freedom, then it is your DUTY and OBLIGATION to go to one of those places and live there, and fight the evil powers. I personally will not be joining you, because I rather enjoy the fact that I can keep my wages and spend them however I want, I can worship whomever I want freely, I can sleep at night knowing the police are not about to bust through my door at any moment, and--this is gonna slay you--would you believe that not ONE of my relatives or friends has been dragged out into the street and shot like a dog? Not one! It's incredible. I must be the luckiest guy in the entire United States!

So, onward with the good fight, Indigo_Child! Off you go, to save us, then. I will be cheering you on from agar.

[edit on 12/10/2004 by thelibra]



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 06:49 PM
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thelibra - well said. I guess I'm a lucky one too. Nobody I know been rounded up or assimilated and I am sure enjoying my decent life.

I guess I'll continue to be a sheeple and keep on working and partying (smokin, drinkin, strippers - "I love LA, da da da da...") for everyone else that's too scared to live their life and worries incessantly about this NWO crap....



posted on Dec, 11 2004 @ 08:31 AM
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I fail to see how this answers the question.


Are you having a joke with me? I just said it means "human" As man can also be used to connote the human race. Just to clarify for you in advance, race in this context, means our kind, and not something you see in the Olmypics.


I'm afraid it doesn't fit your definition. Though I know what you are trying to say, the word you are looking for is "Despotism". To call it an Oligarchy makes it very unspecific. Every country's governmental system I can think of is an Oligarchy, and your own supporting paste validates it. In America, the few govern. Granted, we do elect The Few, but they are the ones who govern. Not us.


I am not going to argue the obvious with you. Every government is not an oligarchy. Period. An oligarchy is where absolute power resides in the hands of the few. A democracy is where power is shared between the state and the people.



Indeed. And that was cleared up in my last post as well. The term you are looking for is "Unification".

I really don't mean to nit-pick, in fact, I'm actually trying to help. But if you go around using the wrong terms, people educated enough to recognize the difference will get hung up on those flaws, and not take you seriously. However, I do applaud your spelling and grammar.


Thank you for your vote of confidence on my spelling and grammar. However, I cannot give you my vote of confidence on your verbal comprehension.

A hive-mind is not the same as unification. In the same way the united nations is not a hive-mind, but a united nations formed of individuals.
I am actually all for a united Earth, but I am vehemently against a hive-mind Earth.

A hive-mind is where the entire system is run by a slave population, that is homogenized to one mindset, under the orders of the masters.

The difference is between the Borg and the Federation. The Borg like society is what the NWO is trying to implement.



There's that Men-God Elite thing again. Are you talking about Males specifically, or "men" as in, the shortened word for "humans?"


I am talking about powerful men(humans) whose relationship to the common man would be analogous to man and gods. The paragon of power.


I mean no disrespect when I say this, but "What Pipelines?" I must sound like a complete jerk here, but really, I'm curious or I wouldn't be asking. Do you mean the oil pipelines? The gas pipelines? Some metaphorical pipeline of the infrastructure? The beaurocracy surrounding the system?


Next:


And, further, no disrespect intended, but the OWG has been forming since the first government realized it could expand. From Ancient Egypt to Present-Day, the OWG has been forming, and foiled, over and over. So I'm not technically disagreeing with you, I'm just saying this is nothing new, and is about as much to be concerned about as War. That is to say, it is a concern, and a valid one, but nothing Earth-shattering or indicative of End-Times.


Well, yes. I think I already said that the OWG/NWO has been forming for thousands of years. What is new, is that today(please don't ask me if I mean the 11th November 2004) it is going to be formed.

The end-time is that the world as we know it is going to end. It does not mean planet Earth will end, she's still a young lady. Nor does it mean humanity will end. It does mean, however, that there will be a catacylsm that destroys billions of people worldwide


Really? I had no idea! I must have missed that one. I don't suppose you could provide some articles to back this up, just so I can take an educated approach to the thing. Also, what sorts of resources, specifically are you talking about?


Are you familar with the phenomena of globalization and westernization?

Please read this article/essay by me: www.abovetopsecret.com...


Surely not People (who are a resource), because I believe several credible resources will state that India and China are the top dogs in this department. Though it is conceivable that Europe is hiding an extra 2 billion people underground somewhere, awaiting the right moment to strike.


This is only because you do not know what globalization is. Do you actually know what I mean by the European/western empire is? It is a transnational entity(not the geographical European entity) Further, it does not geographically own the resources, it regulates it and controls more than 90% of them. India and China are only sources of cheap labour for the globalized economy, one caters to the cheap product market, while the other caters for the software market.

You listed Iraq as the third highest oil producing nation in the world. Which illustrates my point exactly, even though the oil resources are based in Iraq, it is regulated and controlled by the empire.


Originally posted by Indigo_Child
All that is needed to complete the OWG is to get rid of the opposition:

1. Liberals
2. Islamic nations
3. Sovereigns



Okay, again, some things to clear up... We'll take these one at a time.


You're not clearing things up, only obfuscating it, by nitpicking at definitions and semantics, which has comprised much of this post. I have better things to do than that, leave the debate of semantics of words to those who compose the dictionary.

All you need here is basic comprehension:

1. Liberals?

Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.

2. Islamic States? - This is not a religious thing, it is a cultural thing. Islam is the fastest growing culture in the world and also the 2nd biggest in the world, and it is diametrically opposite to the globalized culture, it's believers are firm, steadfast and millitant, which empowers their communal spirit. In other words they're a strong individualistic culture, and that is why they must be eradicated by the empire for its NWO goals to succeed.

That is what is happening today in the Middle East, they are being killed in their hundreds of thousands/millions, and are being demonized by the western propoganda machine, and ostracized by the global society.

They are the scapegoat of the facist western regime. There is already prejudice existing against them in western society, and don't say there isn't, because there is. Even on this forum you will see a few nationalist members who blame the muslims for the worlds problems or even their own.

When we say "islamic terrorists" "muslim terrorists" we are effectively segregating the muslim culture from our society. There is no other culture in the world, that has it's own breed of terrorists, and it's own name in infamy.

This will be amplified after the next staged terrorist attack, and then you will witness as a backlash against the muslims, racial profiling by the state and the people itself. Not only will the victims be Muslims, but Sikhs, Hindu, Jains, Indo-Buddhists and other foreigners with middle-eastern and south asian looks.

Be wary of the people here who continue to justify murder of Iraqis and Palistinaians as revenge for their own. These people are already prone to racism, and will be drafted as the neo-nazi's of our time. We witnessed one such hate attack against a man wearing a Turban(a sikh) just a few days after 9/11. I have seen a lot of racism directed at Muslims in my own town.

This is all designed by the state. It scares me that these people are being set-up like this, and when I look at them today, I hate to think what is going to happen to them.


3. Sovereigns - This one perplexes me the most, as there doesn't appear to be such a word, except in the case of coinage. So perhaps you meant Sovereign.


Yawn. Sovereign: Self-governing; independent: a sovereign state.

So the NWO that wants a OWG does not want Soverigns. Does that make sense? Yes it does.


Oh my good Lord! Someone had better go tell them right now! Errr... wait a second... I'M IN THE U.S.... I don't see any OWG at all. I see a nation divided on itself, and ALMOST half of it is really really pissed at the current government... I don't see a mandatory religion anywhere? Do you? In fact, wouldn't you know, I went to temple just last week, a church the week before that, and recently dusted my shrine to Worldwide religions. I've yet to be tattooed with a bar code, or have a chip implanted in my skull. By gods, where is this OWG, so that I can shoot them with my legally owned gun???


Of course you cannot see it, if you knew about it, you would not give a rats arse about elections, no one would. If you knew that, then your country would go into civil war crying for revolution, and become a pain in the arse for the NWO. So instead you've been given a false sense of freedom and you lap it up. You've been indoctrinated into the human matrix, by inundating you with worries, tax, bills, share prices, and keeping you entertained with football and movies, and your thinking controlled by religion, science or cults. Meawhile, right under your noses, they make amendments to your constiution, legislate draconian laws, wage illegal wars on sovereign nations, plan your own murder and liase with other around the world on whether their actions are going to plan, and even have spare time to engage in satanic rituals and human sacrifice. Yet, you, are so engrossed in the human matrix, that you remain oblivious.

Yet, those few who have taken the red pill and become aware of the actual human reality, who come and tell you what is happening, you police, ridicule and condemn, because that is what you've been conditioned to do. It is a self-contained system. Where the sheep, are also the sheep dogs for the other sheep to keep them in line with the collective mindset.

When you are ready to leave the Matrix, you will see there is shadow government a transnational governing entity, a government behind the governments of the world. You will realise that your sovereignity is nothing but a farce, that you are being controlled and regulated, like any resource or commodity in the world, by the empire. If they want, they can send/transfer a million of you to a prison Island, and no one will bat an eye lid, and actually that has already been done, that's what formed Australia.

None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free.
--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe



I personally will not be joining you, because I rather enjoy the fact that I can keep my wages and spend them however I want


Which, mind you, you have to pay back with bills, through tax, through consumption of overpriced food/drink through consumption of oil/gas, and through national debt. Further, if you are not aware, the wages you so proudly proclaim here, is nothing but paper with writing that entiltles you to a loan from the federal reserves. You actually own nothing you think you are purchasing. It is owned by the state. This may come as a shock to you, especially for someone who believes he's free , but you don't even own yourself. True ownership comes from equity, land and property. If you own that, you don't even need a taxable income. You can become self-dependent.

In the same way the rich are self-dependent, it's not because they earn income, it's because they own property and land, and generate a non-taxable income from that. You are the worker/slaves that work your ass of 24/7 for them, pay high taxes, own nothing, and have to pay bills and the national debt.

An illustration of this point comes from Nazi Germany, when Hitler seized the properties of all the jews, and rendered them homeless in days/weeks. He did this because state law permitted it. In the same way state law permits it in US.


I can sleep at night knowing the police are not about to bust through my door at any moment, and--this is gonna slay you--would you believe that not ONE of my relatives or friends has been dragged out into the street and shot like a dog? Not one! It's incredible. I must be the luckiest guy in the entire United States!


Or you are too overconfident for your own good? Have you seen these guys?







These guys will be running around your country in their hundreds of thousands under martial law, forcing you out of your homes at gun point and into prison camps. They are already running around your cities and performing drills in the middle of the city, wrecking mayhem, and have been deployed against peaceful demonstrations:

Breaking entry in your home and hassling you?


www.prisonplanet.com...

-- Residents of a Bronx building are outraged after getting an unexpected morning "greeting" yesterday from a police drug squad, which burst into their homes, waved guns at children and then left after finding nothing.
"At 7:50 a.m., they burst down the door to the building," said Joe Celcis, a teacher whose mother and sister live in the home.

"After an hour and a half, they said, 'Sorry wrong house,' and left."


Mutilating you out on the street?


www.prisonplanet.com...

A Detroit police officer with a knife cut off the finger of a 45-year-old woman he was trying to handcuff in a parking lot on 8 Mile.

The police, who were in plainclothes, said she was resisting arrest. The woman, Joni Gullas of Detroit, said Monday that she thought she was being carjacked.

According to police reports obtained by the Free Press, Officer Anthony Johnson pulled out a knife Sunday morning to cut off the sleeve of Gullas' oversized coat so he could put her left hand in the handcuffs.


Killing children?


www.prisonplanet.com...

Senta Scarborough
The Arizona Republic
Aug. 26, 2003 12:00 AM


Parents' plea for help for their 15-year-old son, who was holding a kitchen knife and threatening suicide, turned deadly early Monday when Mesa police shot him in front of his family.

Westwood High School junior Mario Albert Madrigal Jr. was shot multiple times in the carport of his home near Dobson and Longmore roads in west Mesa after police said he came toward them with a knife "in a threatening manner."

The boy's parents said their son had dropped the knife after he was shot with a Taser gun moments earlier and was not a threat to officers


You said being shot like a dog? How about shooting dogs?


www.prisonplanet.com...

MILWAUKEE -- A woman who had just talked a friend out of suicide had her pet cocker spaniel shot to death by a police officer called to her house.

Then the officer handed Valerie Mueller a $120 citation for having her dog, Sprite, outside without a leash.

``I will fight that ticket,'' said Mueller, 33, a special education teacher with Milwaukee Public Schools.



www.prisonplanet.com...

The dog, which was shot at close range Jan. 1 by a Cookeville policeman during a felony traffic stop, belonged to the James Smoak family of Saluda, N.C. At the time, the Tennessee Highway Patrol suspected the Smoaks James, his wife, Pamela, and his stepson, Brandon Hayden were involved in a Nashville-area robbery.

Yesterday, the Tennessee Highway Patrol acknowledged there was no robbery, just a calamitous mix-up in communications between dispatchers working for two separate patrol offices. This failure to communicate led to the shooting of the Smoaks' dog, an incident that was preserved on videotape by a dashboard camera in a patrol car.

At 3:07, Hall fires. The dog falls and rolls over, dead. Each of the Smoaks cries out in anguish as their pet lies bleeding just a few feet from where they are handcuffed. ''Why'd you shoot my dog? Why'd you shoot my dog?'' James Smoak can be heard crying repeatedly.


What about a massive police force with armoured tanks forcing entry into home, arresting you and dragging you out:


www.prisonplanet.com...

The sound of heavy machinery, exploding grenades and blaring announcements cracked the early morning silence.

Neighbors looked out their windows Oct. 17 to see an armored truck rolling down the street. They saw at least 45 officers armed with shotguns and assault rifles entering a trio of houses, standing guard at alleyways and blocking traffic lanes.

Officers wouldn't explain to startled residents what was going on.

Police pulled four people - including a nude woman and another woman wearing only underpants and a T-shirt - from their beds and kept them in handcuffs in a room of one of the houses for several hours. One woman reported that an officer covered her head with a black fabric bag and removed it only when she agreed to cooperate.

Neighbors later learned that officers had served a search warrant at three adjacent houses near West Fifth Avenue and Adams Street, where police suspected people were growing marijuana.

The raid sparked immediate outrage among more than a dozen neighbors and friends of the property owners and in recent weeks has become a rallying point for community organizers. The fact that police found no marijuana plants or weapons has only angered neighbors further.


If that was not enough, what about raiding an entire school of children, and treating them like dogs:


www.prisonplanet.com...

Newly released videotape from inside Stratford High School shows a startling picture of the controversial November drug raid at the Goose Creek school.

The video was taken by the Goose Creek Police during the raid. It shows officers, some with guns drawn, forcing dozens of students to kneel on the floor as police dogs sniffed for drugs. Other students were bound with plastic handcuffs.

The Associated Press reports the department's procedures say canines can enter and conduct an illegal narcotics detection only after the on-scene supervisor has cleared the area of all personnel.

Several attorneys are filing class action lawsuits claiming students rights were violated by the raid. In a lawsuit filed in federal court on Friday against the City of Goose Creek and the Berkeley County School District, 17 students say they felt frightened as the dog passed by. The suit says a dog was unruly and appeared to be unresponsive to commands.

The suit charges the students' constitutional rights had been violated. It also levels charges of assault, battery and false arrest.


Finally to show how much they can careless about the sheep that we are, how about openly and brutally attacking a huge mass of people.


www.prisonplanet.com...

Millions of us witnessed - or received a hint of - the Miami spectacle last week at the time of the Free Trade Area of the Americas (FTAA) meetings and protests. Brought to us by the same people who oversaw electoral fraud in November 2000, this stunning and threatening presence of police was almost unbelievable, particularly in light of the fact that the protests were peaceful.

I felt as though I were walking through a city where a military coup d'etat had just taken place.

Streets were blocked off, stores were closed, helicopters were flying overhead, yet demonstrators found ways of converging on the legally permitted rally site. While the march that was held following the initial rally the afternoon of November 20th was peaceful and uneventful, a couple of hundred marchers returning to the rally site approached an artificial wall that had been set up by the police to restrict protestors from getting too close to the meeting site where the FTAA was being debated. It was at that point that that the police marched on these direct action protestors.

I watched as rubber bullets and tear gas were fired at the unarmed protestors. The police converged on the protestors, almost like a scene from the classic film Potemkin, where Russian troops marched on demonstrators in 1905. While this was taking place, the official news coverage was disparaging the protesters as hooligans, inflaming the environment.

That was Thursday. On Friday, when nothing big and exciting was planned, I witnessed another dramatic show of force by Miami's finest. This time, the provocations by the police were evident for all to see.


There are many more cases like these, that I could fill this entire post, but I am not going to, because the point is made. See, you are living in the country of the US, and you don't even know this is happening, does that not illustrate what I said about the human matrix. It's not that you are lucky, it's that it's not your turn yet.

Finally, have a look at the FEMA executive orders, to be deployed under martial law:

Executive Order #10995: Seizure of all communications media in the United States.


Executive Order #10997: Seizure of all electric power fuels and minerals, public and private.


Executive Order #10999: Seizure of all means of transportation, including personal cars, trucks or vehicles of any kind and total control of highways, seaports and waterways.


Executive Order #11000: Seizure of all American people for work forces under federal supervision including the splitting of families if the government finds it necessary.


Executive Order #11001: Seizure of all health, education and welfare facilities, public and private.


Executive Order #11002: Empowered the postmaster general to register all men, women and children in the U.S.


Executive Order #11003: Seizure of all airports and aircraft.


Executive Order #11004: Seizure of all housing and finance authorities to establish Forced Relocation Designated areas to be abandoned as "unsafe."


Executive Order #11005: Seizure of all railroads, inland waterways and storage facilities, public and private.


Executive Order #12919: Signs June 3, 1994, by President Clinton. Encompasses all the above executive orders.

Are you still confident?

As I said the NWO is happening, nobody can stop it, but it's better you become aware of it now, than later, because it gives you time to prepare. If not, then good luck.


EDIT: To reduce quote length of outside articles

[edit on 11-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Dec, 11 2004 @ 02:39 PM
link   
Now, before I begin my rebuttal, I do want you to know that I really am trying to have a serious discussion with this on you. Text makes it very hard to convey tone, facial expression, and hand gesture, so at times I will probably sound condescending. Just know that none of this is a personal attack, I am merely playing the devil's advocate, and trying to help us both by challenging your statements. Debate on an a subject should force you to either reinforce, or adapt your views. You should also enter into any debate with the acceptance of the possibility that you are wrong.


Originally posted by Indigo_Child
You're not clearing things up, only obfuscating it, by nitpicking at definitions and semantics, which has comprised much of this post. I have better things to do than that, leave the debate of semantics of words to those who compose the dictionary.


Well, I'm sorry, but having come from many years worth of training in debate, speech competitions, essay contests, Toastmasters International, and various other such avenues of education, one of the most important aspects of a persuasive arguement, time and time again, has been to use the correct terminology.

I know it doesn't seem like it from my previous posts, but I am on your side. I'm not convinced, as you appear to be, that it is currently taking place, or that it will happen any time soon. But I do believe it is important to keep the fear of a One-World Government alive, so that in the future we never make the mistake of allowing it to happen...

And I'll even leave myself open to the concept of what you are trying to say, but if you want to convince those who actually have an education in government and political structure, it is vital that you use the correct terms. And if someone, like myself, understands what you are trying to say, and takes the time to listen and figure it out, and then when they do, suggests a more appropriate word, you might consider using that word instead instead of repeatedly defending the wrong words.

Either that, or you should set up an explanation of your blanket terms, at the begining of the dialogue. I realize this might seem redundant, or unneccesary, but if you go and read any amount of classic philosophical literature, or legal documentation, you will find that this is the norm.


Originally posted by Indigo_Child
1. Liberals?

Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.


See, I still have to disagree here. Germany and Russia, in WWII, were both very authoritarian states, yet they still ended up on opposite sides of the war. China and Japan are perhaps even better examples, as in WWII, both were extremely authoritarian, dogmatic, bigoted, and had an orthodoxy dating back thousands of years, and yet still ended up on opposite sides of the war.

Additionaly, you still use the wrong word here. "Liberals," as I understand the term, are just as prone to bigotry, orthodox views, authoritarian attitudes, and dogmatic practices. For instance, PETA (about as liberal a group as they come), if they had their way, would force the rest of the nation to take their views on animals and enact strict laws and harsh punishments for those that broke them. Any strongly religious Liberal is already, by definition, following dogmatic practices. Some Liberals have traditions dating back hundreds or thousands of years, and adhere to them strongly.

And just as important to the arguement is the fact that "Conservatives" can be just as anti-orthodox, nontraditional, and unbigoted as any Liberal. My own father is a prime example. He's not very religious. Any traditions he has are traditions he made up to keep the family together (such as lunch on Sunday). As for bigoted, he married my mom (a Native American) has a son (me) who's marrying a Latina, and acts as a primary liason to Japan for his company. He enjoys discussing the Talmud with his Jewish friends, the Bible with his Christian friends, and the Quraan with his Muslim friends, but subscribes to none of them. Yet he is very conservative when it comes to politics, because he believes that Conservatives have better fiscal policy, and for the most part, has been proven correct.

You may think I'm trying to obfuscate the issue with small details like this, but I'm trying to help you understand that when you use a blanket term like that, you are immediately going to alienate half your audience that might otherwise listen. Once you slap "The Elimination of Liberals" as a tagline to the requirements for the NWO to achieve it's goals, any conservatives out there are pretty much going to stop listening to what you have to say, because your message has just become, in their mind, nothing but liberal rubbish.

So again, I implore you, in the future, if you use this same strategy to defend your claim, that you use something besides "Liberal," and instead opt for something like "Elimination of Political Diversity."


Originally posted by Indigo_Child
2. Islamic States? ...and that is why they must be eradicated by the empire for its NWO goals to succeed.


I still disagree with your assessment of their being any greater of a threat than, any other states, but this is a minor enough point that I don't feel it neccesary to argue.


Originally posted by Indigo_Child
That is what is happening today in the Middle East, they are being killed in their hundreds of thousands/millions, and are being demonized by the western propoganda machine, and ostracized by the global society.


I don't know about demonized, but yeah, I can agree that they've gotten an unjustly bad rep among the ignorant.


Originally posted by Indigo_Child
When we say "islamic terrorists" "muslim terrorists" we are effectively segregating the muslim culture from our society. There is no other culture in the world, that has it's own breed of terrorists, and it's own name in infamy.


No. I'm sorry, but you're incorrect on this one. Ireland had the IRA. Columbia has FARC. Japan has the Yakuza. China has the Triads. The South China Sea nations have roving bands of pirates. Russia has numerous terrorist bands rising up every day. And don't even get me started on all the stuff going on in Africa...

I will agree that Muslims currently have an unjustly bad rep here in the U.S., but they are not unique by a longshot, they are only the most recent, and the most recent ones to strike down thousands of lives in the U.S. Before you make a claim like "Always," "Only," "Never," or any superlative statement, you must do your research. And proper research will almost-always prove that a superlative statement is incorrect.


Originally posted by Indigo_Child
This will be amplified after the next staged terrorist attack, and then you will witness as a backlash against the muslims, racial profiling by the state and the people itself. Not only will the victims be Muslims, but Sikhs, Hindu, Jains, Indo-Buddhists and other foreigners with middle-eastern and south asian looks.


Yes, sadly, I feel you are correct on this. I had become good friends with a Sikh, who owned a gas station near my old apartment. Twice a week I would stop for gas and smokes, and we'd chat for a while before I left. He would tell me of India, of the Sikhs, and I would tell him of places in America he had not yet been, and we'd discuss politics...

...and then 9/11 hit. It happened to hit right after I got gas that morning, at that same place... so I didn't need to go back for about 3 or 4 days. What had previously been a cheery little stop with an open door and a friendly face, now had boarded-up windows and bars over the door. I entered to find him staring at me without recognition in his eyes, only fear. He acted as if I were holding up the place with a shotgun. Concerned, I asked him if he was okay, and a light sort of switched on in back of his eyes. He recognized me at last, and with a shaking hand, pulled two packs of Camel Wide Lights from the overhead shelf and set them delicately on the counter, as if they might attack him at any moment. I slid my money across the counter, and gingerly picked them up, wondering why he was in such shock. With a haunted look, he said "I didn't do it... It wasn't me. It wasn't even my people," and began to weep.

Being a Texan, I'm not real comfortable in the presence of a crying man, so I left, but I'll always remember the look on his face, and can only imagine the sorts of horrors he must have been through in the backlash from 9/11. Here was a man, rightly proud of his heritage as a protector of India, who had come to America to seek his fortune, that he might bring his family over as well, and let them share in the opportunities this land provided... and almost overnight, everyone he knew had treated him as if he had personally slain their family...

It is not a sight I will ever forget. It is the first time I was ever truly ashamed of my country.

But this was not due to some fiendish plot by the NWO, or by the Government, or by Shadow Puppeteers who orchestrated some intricate scheme. It was the ignorance and anger of people who wanted to put a face to one of the greatest tragedies in American History. It was simply latent or blatant racism, fear and ignorance, lashing out at the nearest person who resembled The Enemy.

If there were ever a nuclear attack on U.S. soil, or some comparable terrorist act, I fear it would result in a very short-lived genocide by the people, until the government could get it under control.


Originally posted by Indigo_Child
This is all designed by the state. It scares me that these people are being set-up like this, and when I look at them today, I hate to think what is going to happen to them.


B-llsh-t!!! I'm sorry, but that's the biggest load of crap I've ever heard. And if you ever want to be taken seriously by me, or anyone else with half a brain, you need to realize that sometimes otherwise ordinary people will do stupid and hateful things because they are ignorant and fearful. Sometimes individuals who work for the state, or the local, or the federal government will join in on these acts as well, but they are NOT an act of the state. They are the acts of very very stupid people.

Ignorance and Racism will exist regardless of government, because of mankinds inherent sense of xenophobia against that which is different.


Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Of course you cannot see it, if you knew about it, you would not give a rats arse about elections, no one would.


On the contrary. It is BECAUSE I see, that I DO care about elections. It's the people who do not vote that allow antichrists like Bush into office. It's apathy like yours that allows a lapdog senate and house. It's that kind of attitude that lets the ignorant rule and the few to govern. You dare to lecture me on how I cannot see, when you do not even bother to vote?

I sat and watched every single minute of the debates. I followed Nader's stances and interviews with a Hawk's eye. I watched Farenheit 9/11 then watched Farenhype 9/11 just to get both sides to the story. I read article after article, from as many publications as I could, and when I finally decided to vote for Kerry, despite being in a "red state", I walked into the voting booth knowing that despite the fact the Texan electoral votes would probably go to Bush, I was voting my conscience with as much information as I could obtain, and as much forethought and meditation on the subject as was needed.

Your vote DOES count. It DOES change the government, and it DOES change the world. If enough people who didn't want Bush in office had gotten off their stupid high horse, and come down among us "blind folk" long enough to cast their ballot, Bush would not be in the White House right now. Kerry would. Despite what you think you know, the System DOES work. It works really really well. But because of this retarded attitude that one's vote doesn't matter, or wouldn't make a difference, you ALLOW ignorant tyranny and oppression to continue.

You aren't a revolutionary, you aren't a seer, you apparently aren't even all that educated on the subject you're trying to discuss. If you were, you would use any and all means to fight it, and that includes work both in and outside of the system. You want to make a difference, and talk about how messed up our government is, fine. But don't expect me to think you anything other than an armchair revolutionary until you get off your lazy butt and vote, because THAT is the only non-violent way that will ever truly determine who runs our country.


Originally posted by Indigo_Child
So instead you've been given a false sense of freedom and you lap it up. You've been indoctrinated into the human matrix, by inundating you with worries, tax, bills, share prices,


What, you mean being a responsible adult, and PAYING my way through life instead of letting someone else pay for me? You mean that, by showing up at work each day, and EARNING my pay, that I am bowing down to the man? You mean to say that by putting food on the table for my family, and making sure we have running water and electricity, that I am some sort of drone or zombie? Would you have me instead go live in the woods, in a wooden shack, hunting my food while my wife plows the garden? Or do you mean I should expect these things to be provided to me on a silver platter, with no concerns about the future? If so, who's going to pay for it?


Originally posted by Indigo_Child
and keeping you entertained with football and movies, and your thinking controlled by religion, science or cults.


I never watch sports, almost never watch television, and while I do watch movies, it is to broaden my horizons and experience something I might not otherwise see. I cannot stand most Hollywood blockbusters, and prefer the more independant films or offbeat directors. If I watch something for Eye Candy, it is for the intrinsic artistic value of it, a visual and audial blend of beauty. My thinking is controlled by no one. I am spiritual in nature, and fascinated by theology, but ascribe to no particular religion except perhaps Shamanism, but even then with a healthy mix of other views thrown in. Every day I question my beliefs, and try to disprove them logically so that I am forced to defend my beliefs. If I find that they fail to stand up against attack, then I adapt them or change them. As such, I've reached what I feel to be a very secure and enlightened approach to my spirituality. I take every scientific announcement with a grain of salt, knowing that more things fail than succeed. If it interests me, I read more on it, and if it doesn't, then I don't.

I am not the pawn you think I am. I am not a mindless Grunty who sits before the electric hearth at night, keeping myself entertained, and then drone into work for The Man the next day. Every day I seek to enlighten myself further, and instead of rabidly clinging to a view, I leave myself open enough to accept new ideas, or even the idea that I am wrong. And it is because of this that I do not automatically buy into your statements, and instead argue them.


Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Meawhile, right under your noses, they make amendments to your constiution,


What ammendments??? Where? The only amendment that's ever come out in my entire lifetime is the 27th Amendment, which took 200 YEARS to eventually pass! Bush has proposed a new Amendment about defining marriage, but even his lapdog legislation appear to have opted against this, because ammending the U.S. Constitution is such a grueling process, and requires such a large majority, that it is almost impossible even with the absolute best of intentions that everyone agrees with (much less something that many people do not agree with).

Did you do ANY real research on this, or are you old enough that the 11 Ammendments (almost all of which took over 100 years worth of work to pass) in the last century seem like a lot?


Originally posted by Indigo_Child
...legislate draconian laws, wage illegal wars on sovereign nations,...


Sometimes, yes. I agree. And thanks to people not voting, those laws get passed.
I can't say anything about the "wars" claim, because I agree.


Originally posted by Indigo_Child
plan your own murder and liase with other around the world on whether their actions are going to plan, and even have spare time to engage in satanic rituals and human sacrifice. Yet, you, are so engrossed in the human matrix, that you remain oblivious.


Okay, you've officially entered uncredible tabloid-land. Had you bothered to name a specific individual, it would be called libel, and you'd probably get sued. And I'm not even going to honor this by arguing it until you provide a shred of evidence other than your word. Speaking as a paranoid schizophrenic, if you honestly believe this stuff, you either need evidence, or you need therapy. Now if you can provide me genuine (not photoshopped) photos of Bush or any other member of my government doing these things, or documents listing my name on the "Terminate" list, or any other sort of credible evidence, I'll listen further, otherwise, you've just shot all your credibility to hell, and only the insane people would believe you.


Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Yet, those few who have taken the red pill and become aware of the actual human reality, who come and tell you what is happening, you police, ridicule and condemn, because that is what you've been conditioned to do. It is a


Firstly, what is this magic red pill you speak of? Do you mean that gelcap prop that actor Lawrence Fishbourne held out to actor Keanu Reeves in the Watchowski Bros. production "The Matrix"? That red pill? Did the boxed set come with one that magically transported you outside of our world and revealed truth to you?

If you mean a metaphorical red pill, then you need to state what the metaphor represents, otherwise, I've got an image of you licking the TV screen from a movie.

Secondly, you just got through telling us that we are effectively being brainwashed by movies, when you yourself are apparently using a movie to back up your claims.

Have you even read "The Allegory of The Cave", that the Watchowski brothers said they based the movie off of?

Thirdly, if I condemn and ridicule, it's because the one I do so to has made an outrageous claim with no supporting arguements, and is spouting nothing but cliche lines and regurgitated propaganda from someone else, instead of actually putting any real research or thought into it. NOT because I was conditioned to, but because I long ago learned the hard way that you can't just make stuff up without those things, and expect to be taken seriously.


Originally posted by Indigo_Child
When you are ready to leave the Matrix, you will see there is shadow government a transnational governing entity, a government behind the governments of the world. You will realise that your sovereignity is nothing but a farce, that you are being controlled and regulated, like any resource or commodity in the world, by the empire. If they want, they can send/transfer a million of you to a prison Island, and no one will bat an eye lid, and actually that has already been done, that's what formed Australia.


Indigo, I left the Matrix a long time ago. But I didn't exchange one blindfold for another. You really want to see? Then open your eyes and read, research, and always challenge your own beliefs, and leave yourself open to the idea that you are wrong, and adapt your views when neccesary. Do this day in, day out, for decades, and I think you'll find a lot more of the truth than can be found in one sci-fi conspiracy film. I have seen things more wonderous than most people can imagine, and experienced things more terrible than most people's nightmares because of it, and I still have enough of a grip on reality to know you can't just say A = B. You have to proof out the equation.

I leave myself open to the possibility that you are, in fact, correct, but your choice of ways to convince me of it are sorely lacking in anything other than cliche and paranoid rantings.


Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Further, if you are not aware, the wages you so proudly proclaim here, is nothing but paper with writing that entiltles you to a loan from the federal reserves.


Economics having been my major in college, I'm pretty sure I have a firm understanding of the way money works. Or is College Education also merely a tool of The NWO to corrupt my mind?


Originally posted by Indigo_Child
You actually own nothing you think you are purchasing. It is owned by the state. This may come as a shock to you, especially for someone who believes he's free , but you don't even own yourself.


Okay, I'm going to need to see the legislation on this. Surely you can provide this, yes? And I don't want a cut and paste from some tabloid conspiracy site either, I want HR bills, state laws, federal laws, with the appropriate coding so I can verify them. And some answer about shadow-governments hiding these laws isn't going to cut it.


Originally posted by Indigo_Child
True ownership comes from equity, land and property. If you own that, you don't even need a taxable income. You can become self-dependent.


I'm sure I'm going to regret this, but no, in fact, no one in America truly owns the land anymore. It is on lease from the state or federal government. At some point, I'll try to find the specific legislation on this, it's been too long since I've read them to accurately go into much more detail, but that's what it amounts to.


Originally posted by Indigo_Child
In the same way the rich are self-dependent, it's not because they earn income, it's because they own property and land, and generate a non-taxable income from that. You are the worker/slaves that work your ass of 24/7 for them, pay high taxes, own nothing, and have to pay bills and the national debt.


All that depends on the current administration and the tax laws of that year, and they do change with every administration, and every year. But the true reason that the rich are self-dependant is not any sort of conspiracy at all, it's simply having the discipline to let your money work for you, and having the buying power to buy smart, instead of cheap.

Two examples:

1.) If you set aside money in an interest-bearing account, and do not touch it, and let it ride, your money generates more money from the process of loaning. The more time you let it sit, the larger it gets. Anyone who is smart enough to invest at an early enough age can be a millionaire by the time they are 65. Anyone. If you put away a mere $2 per day into an interest bearing account, you can be a millionaire by the time you are 65. The older you get, the more money you have to put away in order to achieve this. And the more money you put in, the more exponentially this amount grows.

(Source: "Smart Women Finish Rich" by David Bach)

2.) Rich people can afford to be poor. They can buy more frugally. For instance, if a cheap $5 pair of shoes wears out in 6 months, but if a $100 pair of shoes will last you 20 years, the poor person who always buys the $5 pair (because it's all that they can afford at once) will spend $200 on shoes versus the rich person who spends only $100. The person who buys the 7oz. can of food for $1 gets a worse deal than the person who buys the 28oz. can for $2.

Rich people end up being staying rich because they have the discipline to save early, let their money work for them, and spend their money wisely. Those that don't, don't stay rich for long. It doesn't remotely require a conspiracy, it's just plain economics.


Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Or you are too overconfident for your own good? Have you seen these guys?
(snip of photots of cops in riot gear)


The only time I've ever seen these guys deployed is when the people got out of hand to a point when it was required. The Rodney King riots, the WTO riots, and so forth...

And despite someone's opinions or right to protest, nothing gives someone the right to loot and destroy property. I personally experienced the aftermath of the WTO riots in Seattle. I saw those riot cops with my own eyes, and I saw the destruction and looting committed by the ignorant arseheads who dubbed themselves protestors. They smashed in Nike storefronts, grabbing shoes, jewelry, and other expensive items off the shelves. How is that anything other than looting? They overturned BUSSES, and set them on fire. BUSSES! A people who should have been all for public transportation to lower the pollution and traffic rate, were overturning these. Innocent people were brutally mauled, women were raped in the confusion, people were robbed of wallets and anything valuable. How does this advance anyone's cause?

I was GLAD the police came out in force, and I felt sorry for them having to restrain themselves in the face of people attacking them. These weren't nameless, faceless men and women who answered to shadowy powers and came from hidden legions in a secret base. They were normal people, like you and me, who swore to uphold the law, and in the face of extreme violence, panic, and rioting, worked for over 30-straight hours to try and bring about some semblence or order to the city, while having to wear over 100 lbs. worth of equipment, armor, and remain alert and on their feet. You tell me how YOU would have controlled the situation.


Originally posted by Indigo_Child

(snip of news stories)

See, you are living in the country of the US, and you don't even know this is happening, does that not illustrate what I said about the human matrix. It's not that you are lucky, it's that it's not your turn yet.


I am QUITE aware of these sorts of things happening. I try to keep a very reasonable grip on current events, and in some cases, such as the WTO riots, I witnessed the events with my own eyes. And then I watched how the media treated it afterward. They painted the protestors as martyrs, and the riot cops as brutal opporessors. If these "peaceful protestors" would stop rioting, raping, looting, and pillaging, perhaps the riot cops wouldn't be neccesary. Perhaps they wouldn't anticipate and deploy them whenever any sort of large protest happens.

In other cases, mistakes happen. It is a sad fact of life. Sometimes police get the wrong house, and that is regrettable. Sometimes a truly innocent bystander is in the wrong place, at the wrong time, and a life may even be lost. Sometimes a gypsy cop may be having such a bad day that they end up taking out all their rage and frustration on a person who resists arrest. I neither condone or excuse these things, but I do have the sensability to recognize that they are the exception, and not the norm. I also have enough personal experience in events later reported by the media, to know that they can often be so heavily biased as to not even remotely resemble the situation.

If a bunch of cops suddenly kicked open my door in the middle of the night, and drew guns on my family, then realized they had the wrong house, and apologized, I would calmly send them a bill for any damaged property, and it would be replaced. Just like if a waitor accidentally spilled wine all over my coat, I'd send them a bill for the cleaning, and dismiss it as a mistake. Because people are human, and make mistakes sometimes.

If they shot one of my family, I know that they would be brought up on charges, lose their job, be publicly discredited forever more, and the legal system would most likely award us enough money to live comfortably the rest of our lives. While this would never bring back the life of my wife or child, it would punish the system so much as to make it even less likely to happen in the future.

I won't deny that these things have all happened in the past. I know they have, but again, it is not indicative of any kind of conspiracy. It is only a testament to the fallability of humans on both sides of the law.


Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Finally, have a look at the FEMA executive orders, to be deployed under martial law:

(snip executive orders)


Interesting. This is the first evidence I've seen in your arguement. I'll look these up and read on them before making further comment about them.


Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Are you still confident?

As I said the NWO is happening, nobody can stop it, but it's better you become aware of it now, than later, because it gives you time to prepare. If not, then good luck.


I'm still quite confident. So far the only reasonable evidence you've provided are those FEMA Executive Orders, and I still intend to research them before I take them seriously. You want me to become more aware, you're going to need to provide more evidence in the meantime. If you want to succesfully to convey your arguement, you'll need to work on your choice of words. And frankly, even if there is a OWG in the works, your defeatist attitude about not being able to do anything about it needs to change as well, otherwise, there's no point in expressing it in the first place.

Finally, I respond to your movie cliche of the red pill with one from another movie:

No Fate.



posted on Dec, 11 2004 @ 02:59 PM
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Indigo_Child



These guys will be running around your country in their hundreds of thousands under martial law, forcing you out of your homes at gun point and into prison camps. They are already running around your cities and performing drills in the middle of the city, wrecking mayhem, and have been deployed against peaceful demonstrations:


Nope - the cop to people ratio is like .0025 to 1. Even tossing in the military you get like 1.5M to 249 million people and just how are those 1.5M supposed to take down 249 million of us in the US. Not sure what fantasy island you're a living on (I was actually at Fantasy Island last night - great strip club here in LA...) but those numbers do not add up my friend - and more to the point - just who is supposed to feed and clothe and arm all those bad boys if we are all rounded up, assimilated or killed off??!!



posted on Dec, 11 2004 @ 07:48 PM
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I invite serious discussion, but you are discussing a topic with me, that I have discussed over and over again, and researched as extensively as my means could permit, and I am more than convinced in what I am saying; otherwise I wouldn't say it. I am not wrong, but if you can produce evidence to the contrary, I would reconsider. Further, you do not have to worry about me being offended by what you say is a condescending tone, which I do did not find by the way, but I am immune to this. I will, however terminate discussion at my own discretion. I hope you don't mind, but I am getting sick of discussing whether the inevitable will happen.


Well, I'm sorry, but having come from many years worth of training in debate, speech competitions, essay contests, Toastmasters International, and various other such avenues of education, one of the most important aspects of a persuasive arguement, time and time again, has been to use the correct terminology.


I have absolutely no special training in debate, speech or essays. I only rely on common sense, my intuition and my intellects. It 's working better than your training.


And I'll even leave myself open to the concept of what you are trying to say, but if you want to convince those who actually have an education in government and political structure, it is vital that you use the correct terms. And if someone, like myself, understands what you are trying to say, and takes the time to listen and figure it out, and then when they do, suggests a more appropriate word, you might consider using that word instead instead of repeatedly defending the wrong words.


I am not trying to show you up, but so far it is you who have been using the incorrect terms, which shows poor verbal comprehension. Such as trying to say a hive-mind, or a society homogenized to a collective mindset, ruled by an elite, is unification, or every government is an oligarchy. To then claim you have special training and education in these fields, in light of that, is quite comedic for me.


See, I still have to disagree here. Germany and Russia, in WWII, were both very authoritarian states, yet they still ended up on opposite sides of the war. China and Japan are perhaps even better examples, as in WWII, both were extremely authoritarian, dogmatic, bigoted, and had an orthodoxy dating back thousands of years, and yet still ended up on opposite sides of the war.

Additionaly, you still use the wrong word here. "Liberals," as I understand the term, are just as prone to bigotry, orthodox views, authoritarian attitudes, and dogmatic practices. For instance, PETA (about as liberal a group as they come), if they had their way, would force the rest of the nation to take their views on animals and enact strict laws and harsh punishments for those that broke them. Any strongly religious Liberal is already, by definition, following dogmatic practices. Some Liberals have traditions dating back hundreds or thousands of years, and adhere to them strongly.

And just as important to the arguement is the fact that "Conservatives" can be just as anti-orthodox, nontraditional, and unbigoted as any Liberal. My own father is a prime example. He's not very religious. Any traditions he has are traditions he made up to keep the family together (such as lunch on Sunday). As for bigoted, he married my mom (a Native American) has a son (me) who's marrying a Latina, and acts as a primary liason to Japan for his company. He enjoys discussing the Talmud with his Jewish friends, the Bible with his Christian friends, and the Quraan with his Muslim friends, but subscribes to none of them. Yet he is very conservative when it comes to politics, because he believes that Conservatives have better fiscal policy, and for the most part, has been proven correct.


I am not talking about the liberal term in the context of political theories or parties, and I've already made that clear by producing one of the literal definitions. I've told you that I am not going to engage in petty discussion of semantics of words. I consider it is a glorified waste of my time. We are discussing "liberals" in the context of "NWO" as in a group of people who deny authoritarian and fascist rule.

As I showed you earlier with the sovereign term. An independent nation differs with the NWO's plans for an oligarchic and fascist One World Government. In the same way, a liberal group differs with the NWO's authoritarian/fascist government. Does that make sense? Yes it does. Next.


Ignorance and Racism will exist regardless of government, because of mankinds inherent sense of xenophobia against that which is different.


Yes, mankind has an inherent xenophobia and ignorance, which is only another manifestation of the root fear: the fear of the unknown. However, masses of people do not engage in organized genocidal or racist behavior nationwide without being externally influenced and manipulated. This what Hitler did. He amplified and manipulated an already existing prejudice and xenophobia through skiled propoganda.

We are witnessing the same kind of manipulation through skilled propoganda again. However, the Bush government is doing this through subltle propaganda, while on the surface claiming to be sympathetic to the Muslims. That is the real BS.

Further, I suppose you have no idea that 9/11 was a staged event by the Bush administration to usher in the police state laws and justify the wars, that even you agree, are illegal. This is another form of skilled psychological mind control. It's called Problem Reaction Solution. The jews were Hitlers scapegoat. The Muslims are Bush's. There has already been state arrests of Muslims.


On the contrary. It is BECAUSE I see, that I DO care about elections. It's the people who do not vote that allow antichrists like Bush into office. It's apathy like yours that allows a lapdog senate and house. It's that kind of attitude that lets the ignorant rule and the few to govern. You dare to lecture me on how I cannot see, when you do not even bother to vote?

I sat and watched every single minute of the debates. I followed Nader's stances and interviews with a Hawk's eye. I watched Farenheit 9/11 then watched Farenhype 9/11 just to get both sides to the story. I read article after article, from as many publications as I could, and when I finally decided to vote for Kerry, despite being in a "red state", I walked into the voting booth knowing that despite the fact the Texan electoral votes would probably go to Bush, I was voting my conscience with as much information as I could obtain, and as much forethought and meditation on the subject as was needed.

Your vote DOES count. It DOES change the government, and it DOES change the world. If enough people who didn't want Bush in office had gotten off their stupid high horse, and come down among us "blind folk" long enough to cast their ballot, Bush would not be in the White House right now. Kerry would. Despite what you think you know, the System DOES work. It works really really well. But because of this retarded attitude that one's vote doesn't matter, or wouldn't make a difference, you ALLOW ignorant tyranny and oppression to continue.

You aren't a revolutionary, you aren't a seer, you apparently aren't even all that educated on the subject you're trying to discuss. If you were, you would use any and all means to fight it, and that includes work both in and outside of the system. You want to make a difference, and talk about how messed up our government is, fine. But don't expect me to think you anything other than an armchair revolutionary until you get off your lazy butt and vote, because THAT is the only non-violent way that will ever truly determine who runs our country.


Then you are deluding yourself like the rest. Your vote does not matter. Hear it again. Your vote does not matter. It never did. The leaders are selected by their bloodlines of uber-rich families. There has not been a single president of the US that has been a common man. All of the elections have been fradulent. I do not have to have a degree in politcs to know that. The skull and bones and the masons are where the leaders are chosen. This time around, both Bush and Kerry, were both Skull and bones. There have been three presidents who were Skull and Bones. The state is run by a shadow government, a government behind the elected government, and this is an actual fact, jack. This is why the actions of Reagan 20 years ago, that seeded the war on terrorism, have lead to fruitation today. This is why the actions of Ford and Henry Kissinger 30 years ago, have lead to the invasion of East Timor in 1999. This is why George Bush Sr and Clinton's actions lead to the Iraq war of today.

Did you have a vote on the Patriot Act I and II. Did you have a vote on the wars? Do you have a vote on the concentration camps set-up for mass dissidents. No you didn't. Stop deluding yourself. Many of these proposals were passed in congress without analysis and reading of many members. The orders come from the higher up in the pyramid. The elected governments are nothing but puppets. Like the puppet government in Iraq right now.

If you want your freedom, you go out there and fight for it, you are not going to get it handed to you because of one paper with your nomination on it. To learn who you are fighting, you need to remove the cover of darkness of your enemy in the shadows. That is what a liberal and true patriot does. They fight for their freedom and god-given rights.


What, you mean being a responsible adult, and PAYING my way through life instead of letting someone else pay for me? You mean that, by showing up at work each day, and EARNING my pay, that I am bowing down to the man? You mean to say that by putting food on the table for my family, and making sure we have running water and electricity, that I am some sort of drone or zombie? Would you have me instead go live in the woods, in a wooden shack, hunting my food while my wife plows the garden? Or do you mean I should expect these things to be provided to me on a silver platter, with no concerns about the future? If so, who's going to pay for it?


You have no choice, but to to use the system, otherwise you cannot survive. I am telling you the system is in place to breed complanecy, to make you dependent on it and to keep you away from the truth. They indoctrinate you with education and religion and braiwash you with false beliefs to keep you from the truth. The truth is there is no need for fossil fuels, the men-god elites are sitting on ZPE. That will provide you more than enough to run your entire household. The truth is alternative forms of medicine and healing are much more effective than conventional drug and surgical medicine. The truth is you are a far more complex and powerful being than you see yourself as. The truth is the universe is vast and multidimensional.

You are leasing your property and possesions from the state. The moment they pull the plug, the illusion is over, and you find you have nothing. As I quoted earlier: None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free


I never watch sports, almost never watch television, and while I do watch movies, it is to broaden my horizons and experience something I might not otherwise see.

I am not the pawn you think I am. I am not a mindless Grunty who sits before the electric hearth at night, keeping myself entertained, and then drone into work for The Man the next day. Every day I seek to enlighten myself further, and instead of rabidly clinging to a view, I leave myself open enough to accept new ideas, or even the idea that I am wrong. And it is because of this that I do not automatically buy into your statements, and instead argue them.


Well most people do, and that is what I am illustrating to you. The moment most of these people leave the human martix, the NWO is in trouble. The NWO thrives in the dark. If you remove the cover of darkness, it will begin to suffocate.


What ammendments??? Where? The only amendment that's ever come out in my entire lifetime is the 27th Amendment, which took 200 YEARS to eventually pass! Bush has proposed a new Amendment about defining marriage, but even his lapdog legislation appear to have opted against this, because ammending the U.S. Constitution is such a grueling process, and requires such a large majority, that it is almost impossible even with the absolute best of intentions that everyone agrees with (much less something that many people do not agree with).

Did you do ANY real research on this, or are you old enough that the 11 Ammendments (almost all of which took over 100 years worth of work to pass) in the last century seem like a lot?


You have obviously not read anything about the Patriot act I and II and the National ID card.


Sometimes, yes. I agree. And thanks to people not voting, those laws get passed.
I can't say anything about the "wars" claim, because I agree.


The people don't even know that these laws actually exist. If you ask the common man on the street what the patriot act is, he wouldn't have a clue. These laws are quickly passed without few knowing. There is nothing you can do about it. Except to take a proactive role and educate the public and make them aware. Try telling some common man what the Patriot act is and he'll be dumbfounded "you're boring me dawg, let's talk about football"


Okay, you've officially entered uncredible tabloid-land. Had you bothered to name a specific individual, it would be called libel, and you'd probably get sued. And I'm not even going to honor this by arguing it until you provide a shred of evidence other than your word. Speaking as a paranoid schizophrenic, if you honestly believe this stuff, you either need evidence, or you need therapy. Now if you can provide me genuine (not photoshopped) photos of Bush or any other member of my government doing these things, or documents listing my name on the "Terminate" list, or any other sort of credible evidence, I'll listen further, otherwise, you've just shot all your credibility to hell, and only the insane people would believe you


You have just illustrated what I said about the self contained policing system. The sheep are also the sheepdog for the other sheep and keep them in line. That is exactly how the system works. You give the masses a version of reality so unlike the real one, that if anyone ever tells them the truth, they would think it is completely preposterous and absurd. Yet can you possibly conceive the CIA was caught in traffiking children for ritualistic abuse for the elite rich? Can you possibly conceive that the Present of America has gone through sanataic rituals where he had to masturbate in a coffin, swear to keep secrecy over a false murder, and recite the following in front of someone weilding a butchers knife "The Hangman equals death. The Devil equals Death. Death equals Death" Who do you think is doing the cow mutilations? Where do you think the legends of vampires originates from?

This is reality. The elite bloodlines that rule this world are occultists. Are you surprised that even Hitler and the Nazi's were involved in the occult. Do you even know these men-god elites plan to exterminate more than 90% of the worlds population. There is so much you don't know about reality. You are not educated about reality. You are actually living in a society where a lot of satanic symbolism and ideaology is prevalent.

Even I found it very difficult, and as an open-minded person, the satanical angle of the NWO really tested my imagination. You need to do your research. We are talking abouot an highly evil NWO, and you witnessed some of that evil, in the Nazi's. Evil exists; just like good exists.


Indigo, I left the Matrix a long time ago. But I didn't exchange one blindfold for another. You really want to see? Then open your eyes and read, research, and always challenge your own beliefs, and leave yourself open to the idea that you are wrong, and adapt your views when neccesary. Do this day in, day out, for decades, and I think you'll find a lot more of the truth than can be found in one sci-fi conspiracy film. I have seen things more wonderous than most people can imagine, and experienced things more terrible than most people's nightmares because of it, and I still have enough of a grip on reality to know you can't just say A = B. You have to proof out the equation.

I leave myself open to the possibility that you are, in fact, correct, but your choice of ways to convince me of it are sorely lacking in anything other than cliche and paranoid rantings.


I have read, researched and challenged my views. It is you who haven't. Otherwise you would actually know an evil transnational cabal; a shadow government does exist. In fact just recently the shadow government was reported in mainstream media. I am not going to provide the evidence for you, I would like you to do your own research for once.


Economics having been my major in college, I'm pretty sure I have a firm understanding of the way money works. Or is College Education also merely a tool of The NWO to corrupt my mind?


You are taught obsolete ideas, false history and incorrect principles in nearly every discipline. Not intentionally. It is just the system set by the state. If only people knew the theories of space, time and gravity are wrong. They are still being taught Newtownian mechanics from hundreds of years ago. I know law graduates who don't even know what the Patriot act is. Further, college education, destroys your ability to think independently, because you are predisposed to a certain way of thinking.

For instance, you claim you are trained in debate, essays and speech, yet you display such poor verbal comprehension. Some of the most stupid and closeminded people I have met have been college graduates. All a college education is good for is as an introduction to a disciplne. I remember talking to someone with an MD in physics who did not even know that we had actually produced anti-matter, he thought it was speculation. My college professor in physics told me I was delusional, simply because I expressed interest in the paranormal. So, telling me you've majored this and that, is not going to impress me at all. I weigh a person's true intelligence and character from what he says and does. Not from a piece of paper.


I'm sure I'm going to regret this, but no, in fact, no one in America truly owns the land anymore. It is on lease from the state or federal government. At some point, I'll try to find the specific legislation on this, it's been too long since I've read them to accurately go into much more detail, but that's what it amounts to.


Yes, no American truly owns the land. The land is owned by the state and the uber-rich with purchasing power.


All that depends on the current administration and the tax laws of that year, and they do change with every administration, and every year. But the true reason that the rich are self-dependant is not any sort of conspiracy at all, it's simply having the discipline to let your money work for you, and having the buying power to buy smart, instead of cheap.


Yes, it is economics. I did not say it was a conspiracy. What I am saying that they deliberately keep citizens under debt, tax them, make them pay bills and consume overpriced products to keep them in poverty. More than 90% of the common people let them. As I said it a self-contained system. If people woke up, all they need is the intention and will to, and things could change. As long as the common man is dependent and in debt, he is poor.


The only time I've ever seen these guys deployed is when the people got out of hand to a point when it was required. The Rodney King riots, the WTO riots, and so forth...


A few dozen thousand people were all out of control? According to a majority of the reports from varied sources, the demonstrations were peaceful, and there was only one rouge group, that was suspected of being implanted, They were brutally attacked by the state. This is not an isolated incident, it's happend in many other peaceful protests too. According to the Patriot Act such acts can be considered acts of domestic terrorism and the participants jailed for life.


In other cases, mistakes happen. It is a sad fact of life. Sometimes police get the wrong house, and that is regrettable. Sometimes a truly innocent bystander is in the wrong place, at the wrong time, and a life may even be lost. Sometimes a gypsy cop may be having such a bad day that they end up taking out all their rage and frustration on a person who resists arrest. I neither condone or excuse these things, but I do have the sensability to recognize that they are the exception, and not the norm. I also have enough personal experience in events later reported by the media, to know that they can often be so heavily biased as to not even remotely resemble the situation.

If a bunch of cops suddenly kicked open my door in the middle of the night, and drew guns on my family, then realized they had the wrong house, and apologized, I would calmly send them a bill for any damaged property, and it would be replaced. Just like if a waitor accidentally spilled wine all over my coat, I'd send them a bill for the cleaning, and dismiss it as a mistake. Because people are human, and make mistakes sometimes.

If they shot one of my family, I know that they would be brought up on charges, lose their job, be publicly discredited forever more, and the legal system would most likely award us enough money to live comfortably the rest of our lives. While this would never bring back the life of my wife or child, it would punish the system so much as to make it even less likely to happen in the future.

I won't deny that these things have all happened in the past. I know they have, but again, it is not indicative of any kind of conspiracy. It is only a testament to the fallability of humans on both sides of the law.


You were claiming that no one has kicked your door down or beaten you like a dog to suggest that your state is safe. I have shown you otherwise. I often see all police brutality or even US army brutality, attributed to human fallability or isolated cases. Yet, the commonality and frequency of such events in security forces demonstrates that this is an institutional problem. It is hardly surprising consider the training process systematically dehumanizes them. WACO, where an entire special operation was involved in burning down a building and killing 70 civlians, including childten. WTO, Miami, Portland, Oregon. Shooting on children and killing children. Entire operations against schools and neighbourhoods. Tanks on streets. Mass troop exercises in the middle of the streets. These events have all happened within months or a few years. That's not human infalliblity. That is the state. You have military running around amok on your streets.

Do you have any idea what would happen during Martial law? You don't have to guess, just read what they have planned for you.


I'm still quite confident. So far the only reasonable evidence you've provided are those FEMA Executive Orders, and I still intend to research them before I take them seriously. You want me to become more aware, you're going to need to provide more evidence in the meantime. If you want to succesfully to convey your arguement, you'll need to work on your choice of words. And frankly, even if there is a OWG in the works, your defeatist attitude about not being able to do anything about it needs to change as well, otherwise, there's no point in expressing it in the first place.


I am not going to have to do anything. I have given you the pointers in this post for you seek your own evidence. The execute orders, and the subplots of operation cable splicer and garden plot are hard facts. If you are confident knowing that your president has gone through satanic rituals, that your state has passed laws that Hitler passed, that is involved in the genocide of innocent people, and that there are executive orders in place to throw you into prison camps. Then you are being plain delusional.

Now, I think I'll get some sleep.

[edit on 11-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Dec, 11 2004 @ 08:13 PM
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As long as the common man is dependent and in debt, he is poor.


True and I guess I'm poor but the data shows there are a whole boatload that are not and I can't see them all being in on some grand plan or giving in lightly and there are millions of them. Stop for a moment and think about the scale here - this is a big a** country and the ratio of police/military types to the populace is actually rather tiny. No Walmart here in LA to process my assimilation papers so where do I go?? And FEMA could deal with the hurricane victims in Florida this year - yeah right....

I guess I should watch the news more because I haven't seen any state controlled actions (military/police or otherwise) here in LA LA land that has had any impact on my life or of those around me - well street maintenance guys do cause traffic to back up sometimes and it take a few minutes longer to get through airport security and I do have to go outside the bar to smoke....



posted on Dec, 12 2004 @ 01:55 AM
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The move to a new world order actually started with Cain and Abel. There were only 4 souls living, so when Cain slew Abel, he forcefully inherited the whole world. I think he was the first member of the Bilderbergers.

His scheme ran into some troubles, since it was interrupted when along came a Bin Sala Bin who was wealthier and started the secret sect of the Wahhabi. Unfortunately for both of them, some poor folk unwilling to till the fields and herd the sheep for a pittance of a loaf of bread a week, decided they would start their own clan, left town and came back later as the ISH. These were people from a general area who didn't much like each other, but were very polite, so they all kept the ISH out of respect. They were the Danish, the British, and the Spanish.

Somewhere along the line though, the plans went awry and a few gave themselves this fanciful name of Rothschild. Not to be outdone, a more haughty crowd diversified and claimed long standing relationship to some unknown house called Windsor. Since No one really knew each other, or pretended not to, the war was on for the throne over the north pole. As a result of cross breeding without realising it however, a number of nobodies figured they could take over all the others' riches, even though they themselves were worthless, and set up a society of underhanded mind bending manipulators. They were so successful they decided to form a secret society of their own; the Opus Dei, brainwash the whole lot they didn't kill, and hoarde underground, all the goods they could plunder.

By then there were so many people in the world, and everyone was so suspicious of the other, wondering where their relatives and riches went to, that the only way around this was for more secret societies. So along came the Nazis, a ruthless crowd of sycophants not interested in infiltrating the others, but killing them. They figured the best way to conquer was in part to be first to set up a secret society in a place half way around the world that no one had bothered with yet, and so the Skull and Bones was started. Now their job was a secret, and is a secret to this day, except to be sure everyone links them to all these other secret societies. But just as one starts up, so too does another and so was borne the Italian mafia, which grew so powerful, they crossed over to the other side of the world also and were feared by everyone. Henceforth, as they all spawned, the generations parted ways with the old folk and each decided they wanted power. This formed the Rockefeller line.

Now this Rockefeller feller, devised a whole new tactic, and instead of each of the societies really fighting each other, he invited them all to join his club called the Illuminati, whereby, they would all only pretend to be at odds with each other. Of course the Skull and Bones which is such a devious cult and which managed to plant an enormously high .07 percentage of leaders in the land, salivated at this invitation to infiltrate, now they really were in on the secret, yet secretly plotting against the rest.

We don't know if Cain won yet, he's been trying for 5,764 years, and since no winner has yet been declared, maybe we will find out soon before more clans and secret societies form.


[edit on 12/12/04 by SomewhereinBetween]



posted on Dec, 12 2004 @ 05:30 AM
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How does the state police and army contro 200+ million people? The real question is how many of those 200 million people would be able to fight, or would fight.

[edit on 12-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Dec, 12 2004 @ 05:43 AM
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Originally posted by UofCinLA
Indigo_Child



These guys will be running around your country in their hundreds of thousands under martial law, forcing you out of your homes at gun point and into prison camps. They are already running around your cities and performing drills in the middle of the city, wrecking mayhem, and have been deployed against peaceful demonstrations:


Nope - the cop to people ratio is like .0025 to 1. Even tossing in the military you get like 1.5M to 249 million people and just how are those 1.5M supposed to take down 249 million of us in the US. Not sure what fantasy island you're a living on (I was actually at Fantasy Island last night - great strip club here in LA...) but those numbers do not add up my friend - and more to the point - just who is supposed to feed and clothe and arm all those bad boys if we are all rounded up, assimilated or killed off??!!


Quote,just how are these 1.5m supposed to take down 249 million of us ??? easy bring in the mark of the beast,no man will be able to work buy or sell without it,imagine the control they would have over you,imagine if they knew who would be likeky to stand against the system,they could simply cut you off,its about control,my opinion anyway



posted on Dec, 12 2004 @ 05:54 AM
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Originally posted by gps777
just how are these 1.5m supposed to take down 249 million of us ??? easy bring in the mark of the beast,no man will be able to work buy or sell without it,imagine the control they would have over you,imagine if they knew who would be likeky to stand against the system,they could simply cut you off,its about control,my opinion anyway


It's not as hard as you would think.

Of the 249million, how many are children, elderly, passive, etc...
Then, some of the 249million will surely join up with and help them because they trust and believe in the government for one reason or another.
Then, of the 249million, how many have no weapons or equipment to fight?

Speaking of weapons, here's the most obvious part - the police/military have far better weapons, equipment, vehicles, training, procedures, strategy, resources, etc., etc....



posted on Dec, 12 2004 @ 06:55 AM
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It's not as hard as you would think.

Of the 249million, how many are children, elderly, passive, etc...
Then, some of the 249million will surely join up with and help them because they trust and believe in the government for one reason or another.
Then, of the 249million, how many have no weapons or equipment to fight?

Speaking of weapons, here's the most obvious part - the police/military have far better weapons, equipment, vehicles, training, procedures, strategy, resources, etc., etc....


Most of these 249 million will not have a chance to react, as some of the articles I have posted above have shown, a mass of police forces barge into homes and have them out by seconds in whichever condition they are in. Most of these will actually willingly go along, thinking it is for their protection. In the end, those left, will be under less than a million people, fighting against a hundred thousand trained police forces with machine guns, armoured tanks and hi-tech weapons. It is actually a walk in the park for the state.

There are also plans to allow in UN and Canadian peacekeeping forces.

[edit on 12-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]



posted on Dec, 12 2004 @ 06:25 PM
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Indigo Child, I mean no disrespect, but I just can't see the point in trying to continue this arguement. There's no way to argue against unsupported claims of bogeymen or ghosts. I've asked you for research and proof to convince of your side, and all you've done is quote more movie references. I've laid down a path of reason and logic to show that the world works in certain ways because those ways make sense, and not because of shadow puppeteers. In some cases I've given you concrete proof on a silver platter, only to have it dismissed with a "No, it's not! You're wrong, and I'm right."

So, I'm afraid it's pointless to continue trying to take any rational approach to this anymore. Perhaps if instead, I'd chosen to quote movies as my proof, and use the wrong words, I'd have had a chance. I guess I can try that now...

Don't worry, the OWG will never come to power, because the werewolves who fight on the side of Gaia will stop them in time. I have it on the highest authority that the Faeries and Leprechauns have set aside their differences, and are banding together to put a stop to the U.K. Empire. In other parts of the world, the aliens were actually the ones manipulating the shadow government, instead of the other way around, and it turns out they're really just playing one big game of chess with us. So there's no need to worry, because the white and black pieces on the great board we call Earth are evenly matched. Additionally, Steven Hawkin has actually developed a Time Machine to fight The Man, and has an armored mecha-bodysuit where he can fly and shoot laser beams to help out with this.

So there's no need to worry, obviously. We've got Indiana Jones (who is very real, he's just been, until recently, held in a secret government research facility) to organize all the good guys, right alongside Alan Quartermain (who also really exists. Believe me, I know these things).

(...drags Reason and Logic out in the street and puts a bullet in their skulls. Then goes to have a tea party with Fantasy and Delusion.)



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