THE ARTICLE that your Church DOES NOT want you to read!

One can believe in a higher power without trusting organized religion.

My personal view is that "holy scriptures" in general were written mostly by people
with good intentions, but also with the failings of "man's" interpretation
according to their perception of events as they understood them at the time.

So these accounts were intended generally to be used as guidebooks to humanity.

The question yet to be answered beyond any doubt is when we might
hope to know the full truth of our origins and our place in the much grander scale of things.

When "certain men" allowed their quest for power and wealth to influence
the interpretation of these texts for their own gain, then the intent of good
people suffered.

Each denomination was then force to fight for their own peace of the religion
pie and the purity of those good intentions was corrupted.

What we don't know is how much of these texts were lost or destroyed
by those thirsting for power.

Hopefully we'll find out the truth before it's too late.

Originally posted by FallenFromTheTree

One can believe in a higher power without trusting organized religion.

My personal view is that "holy scriptures" in general were written mostly by people
with good intentions, but also with the failings of "man's" interpretation
according to their perception of events as they understood them at the time.

So these accounts were intended generally to be used as guidebooks to humanity.

The question yet to be answered beyond any doubt is when we might
hope to know the full truth of our origins and our place in the much grander scale of things.

When "certain men" allowed their quest for power and wealth to influence
the interpretation of these texts for their own gain, then the intent of good
people suffered.

Each denomination was then force to fight for their own peace of the religion
pie and the purity of those good intentions was corrupted.

What we don't know is how much of these texts were lost or destroyed
by those thirsting for power.

Hopefully we'll find out the truth before it's too late.

i would be the first to say that my theology as a reformed christian begins with the presupposition that the scriptures are truely God's inspired word. so let's pretend that history does not support the scriptures and strictly speak of faith without facts . . . the calling of God is made through the bible and it is clearly stated that "many are called, but few are chosen." not all that hear are able to believe. this is the way it was for pharoh, the pharisees, etc. but thankfully we have reasonable proofs in history that the scriptures are true, which only emphatically displays that denial of it is due to a spiritual predisposition and therefore would also lead us to follow and say that acceptance of it is also due to a spiritual predisposition.
so in essence, to each his own!

daved

My church couldn't care less about trash like this...

What I find really interesting is that there are people out there so threatened by Christianity that they need to go to these lengths to debunk it.

Something to consider: how important is it -- REALLY -- that there are congruences between the Biblical story of Jesus and this diatribe you cite? I am not induced, after reading it, to abandon my faith nor, it appears, are you induced to accept any.

All this does -- REALLY -- is allow somebody to exercise his imagination -- or perhaps vent his spleen -- against a faith system he does not agree with, and give a bunch of cattle the opportunity to ride on his coat-tails.

My advice to you: take NOTHING for granted. Read widely, talk to many people of many faiths, and listen to your heart rather than some jumped up pseudo-intellectual who quotes out of context to make things fit his theory. You are (I assume) a human capable of independent thought. Think independently.

Whether you believe in Jesus or not, take responsibility for your own spirituality because I can guarantee that the true author of the piece you quoted will NOT step up and speak for you on Judgement day.

You may not believe in the afterlife but one thing is certain: if there is and you get it wrong you will have a very, very long time to reflect on the error of the few moments you saved yourself avoiding the truth while here on this earth.

My friend we are not threatened by Christianity or any other religion but we are tired of this religious nonsense which deludes peoples live and creates wars. How many wars were fought over religion? How many pagans were prosecuted by Christians in the medieval times? They took responsibility into their own hands because others had beliefs that did not match with their own religious morals. There is nothing holy in that kind of religion where you are almost forced to believe in Jesus or you will go to hell. Just like Bush said "if you are not with us you are with terrorists" so if you are not a Christian then you are the Anti-Christ. I have noticed much fear in Christian and other major religions and a lot of contradictions which are blindly or wishfully ignored. Religious people mostly are not spiritual because religion in itself is a book of law. They are taught to do good deeds so that when the time is right they will go to heaven. That in itself shows how selfish and impersonated it makes their character. They are focusing much on God and his son that they forget to respect themselves and others. God doesn't want you to praise "him" God wants you and each of you to be responsibile for your own actions. You do not need bible to know what is moral and what is not. Instaed on focusing who's religion is right and who is the chosen we should work on our human reletionship. On how to improve own reletionship with one another and create peace and heaven on this earth before we will completely destroy ourselves.

``

the first part
reminds me a lot about the ESSENES Sect
they produced a bunch of dead sea scrolls under the heading
'The WAR scroll'

about the ongoing battle of the sons-of-light versus the
son-of-darkness......and then all those embellishments....

early cult 'christians' withdrew from this esorteric, mystical 'truths'
[for Thomas & Peter & John & Paul teachings]

the only question is; what 'truths' 'from God' will survive...it seems
HE has planted many 'truth' 'seeds'...and its not our position to
Judge,,,it is understood that HE will sometime in the future, Harvest & Reap & Judge...

It is one thing to be "inspired" by the word of God
and another to accept the words of men with blind faith.

There are many "rules" written by men that attempt to
qualify your worthiness of faith.

Rules that oppress the freedom and education of women.
Rules that imply one faction is less worthy than another.
Rules that imply your worthiness is tested by your financial contributions
to the church.

So while many may deeply believe the spirit of "holy scriptures"
many other are free to question these "rules" of conviction.

I respect each persons right to follow their heart without condemnation
of those who see things with a different perspective.

Regardless of your personal faith, one should question the motives
of those who would prey on your deepest beliefs for wealth and power.

Originally posted by Dasherspend less time on packing your post full of cynicism and more time reading/referencing what i wrote and then critically thinking about how each gospel has it's own contextual basis and therefore need for particular information. your dismissal does not make the truth of my statements fail. it simply makes it vanish from your eyes.

Your statements are abject failures at Biblical revision. had you a case, you would have been providing something more than just denial and post filler in support, and bringing America into this topic as if America has some bearing to 2,000 years ago.

So then, when might we expect to see proof of the absurdities you put forward?

to fully understand the corruption of western culture, please note that dispensational eschatology nearly dried up in england, but was popularized in america...

Focus! This topic is not about America or England or western culture. And if you can't focus either say so, or post this diatribe once more and it will confirm to me that I waste my time debating someone who is off chasing broken windmills in America.

to further illustrate your lack of effort to understand my post, you have concluded that i stated the sabbath as starting on thursday. i have read my post 4 or 5 times now and can't figure out how you could have possibly come up with that. your cynical statements seem to fall back on themselves as do your theories.

You can�t figure it out? I'll save you a 6th, 7th even 20th time. And if you don�t even understand what you wrote, how can I possibly expect you to understand what anyone else writes?

FOR THOSE WHO KNOW THEIR SCRIPTURES . . . the process of Jesus' death which was likened to jonas' whale of a time, began at night. to our culture, this was friday morning. by hebrew culture, this was technically thursday night still.

[edit on 12/6/04 by SomewhereinBetween]

Common the guy didn't even finish the quote in the Bible. Its like people that half quote lines from the Koran.

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween

to further illustrate your lack of effort to understand my post, you have concluded that i stated the sabbath as starting on thursday. i have read my post 4 or 5 times now and can't figure out how you could have possibly come up with that. your cynical statements seem to fall back on themselves as do your theories.

You can�t figure it out? I'll save you a 6th, 7th even 20th time. And if you don�t even understand what you wrote, how can I possibly expect you to understand what anyone else writes?

FOR THOSE WHO KNOW THEIR SCRIPTURES . . . the process of Jesus' death which was likened to jonas' whale of a time, began at night. to our culture, this was friday morning. by hebrew culture, this was technically thursday night still.

[edit on 12/6/04 by SomewhereinBetween]

restated with corrected wording.
FOR THOSE WHO KNOW THEIR SCRIPTURES . . . the process of Jesus' death which was likened to jonas' whale of a time, began at night. to our culture, this was friday morning. according to the bible, this was technically thursday night still.

-thursday night - last supper, betrayal, trials, denial by peter
-friday day - cock crows, trial, conviction, punishment, death, embalmment, burial
-friday night - buried
-saturday day - buried
-saturday night - buried
-sunday day - risen

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween

Originally posted by Dasherspend less time on packing your post full of cynicism and more time reading/referencing what i wrote and then critically thinking about how each gospel has it's own contextual basis and therefore need for particular information. your dismissal does not make the truth of my statements fail. it simply makes it vanish from your eyes.

Your statements are abject failures at Biblical revision. had you a case, you would have been providing something more than just denial and post filler in support, and bringing America into this topic as if America has some bearing to 2,000 years ago.

So then, when might we expect to see proof of the absurdities you put forward?

to fully understand the corruption of western culture, please note that dispensational eschatology nearly dried up in england, but was popularized in america...

Focus! This topic is not about America or England or western culture. And if you can't focus either say so, or post this diatribe once more and it will confirm to me that I waste my time debating someone who is off chasing broken windmills in America.

i shall make a few extremely simple observations.
1. the books of the bible are not in chronological order.
2. the creation account in the genesis jumps around in regards to a "timeline."
3. the books contained in the bible are titled by subject, i shall make a short list with "western" titles for emphasis;
A. the judges
B. the beginning
C. the exiting
D. the message of Christ (according to such and such)
E. letter to the romans

nowhere does it say; "GOD: year 3500 - 4600."
again, this should illustrate that in the culture of the scriptures, subject was much more important than the order. western culture is based highly on chronology. for you to dismiss this as irrelevant to the cause of your misunderstanding is not very well thought out.

the events of a story are listed/omitted according to the demand of the subject. you see this as error, the writers did this to intimate a concept.

referring to the "twelve" (this would follow in this same reasoning) . . . within the gospel, after judas betrayed Christ and was expunged, there was intent to focus on there being only eleven since there had just been a tragic event. later, when paul is speaking of the event in retrospect, "the twelve" was a popular term among the followers (they had been restored back to twelve) and he therefore used it to intimate who he was speaking of, although technically the twelve had been reduced by one at that given moment. he also expands on the details and gives a number to the group with them.

Luk 24:33 And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,

i digress. anyone up for a hoegaarden?
daved

i just wanted to say again that i cant figure out how you think i said that the sabbath is a thursday.
daved

The Vatican archive. It is on very rare circumstances that someone is allowed into the Vatican archive, why? Because they don't want anyone to uncover what the Vatican doesn't want you to know. Proof, that Christianity is a hoax exist in their own archive.

Originally posted by Dasher
-thursday night - last supper, betrayal, trials, denial by peter
-friday day - cock crows, trial, conviction, punishment, death, embalmment, burial
-friday night - buried
-saturday day - buried
-saturday night - buried
-sunday day - risen

Very good, as you can see from your own synopsis, the last supper has nothing to do with his time on the cross or the number of days and nights he was dead, which starts on Friday as I have stated. Counting then, he was dead on Friday, and buried during that night. He was still buried on Saturday night, and on Sunday morning he rose. That is; Friday night equals 1, Saturday night equals 2. and Friday as day 1, Saturday as day 2, and the Sunday the day he rose as day 3, to be generous even though he was alive during the day on Friday. Two nights dead which is one night shy of his prophecy.

Care to tell me why you have wasted my time arguing against my initial statement which you now accept?

SomewhereinBetween- For those who know their scriptures, Jesus was crucified on a Friday, and rose on the day after the Sabbath which makes that a Sunday, some time around dawn, that makes his rise on the third day as follows: Friday the day of his death as day one, Saturday day two, Sunday day three.

Now that you are back on track, it is obvious that your post was made in haste as my statement:

Matthew 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale�s belly; so shall the son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. It falls shy one whole night and one whole day.

still stands.

There was no point therefore to this post of yours.

FOR THOSE WHO KNOW THEIR SCRIPTURES . . . the process of Jesus' death which was likened to jonas' whale of a time, began at night. to our culture, this was friday morning. by hebrew culture, this was technically thursday night still. this would be night one. friday was day one and night two. saturday was day two, night three. sunday was day three. final day and life for those who are His.

Furthermore, to Jewish culture the process of his death did not begin until Friday when he was placed on the cross. And that day is the sabbath, as I have so diligently relayed, not Thursday, not even by western standards, since the Bible has no clue what a western standard is.

ps. know the scriptures before you post such outrageous claims

That line of yours, practice it, this has been a lesson well learnt for you.

[edit on 12/8/04 by SomewhereinBetween]

Originally posted by Frosty
The Vatican archive. It is on very rare circumstances that someone is allowed into the Vatican archive, why? Because they don't want anyone to uncover what the Vatican doesn't want you to know. Proof, that Christianity is a hoax exist in their own archive.

Your wrong .. its not a hoax...

DORESSE
44 [39]. Jesus says: "The Pharisees and the scribes have taken the keys of knowledge and hidden them: they have not entered, and neither have they permitted to those who wished to enter. But you, be prudent as serpents and simple as doves!"

LAYTON
(39) Jesus said, "The Pharisees and the Scribes have taken the keys to acquaintance and hidden them. They have neither entered nor let those who want to enter enter. You (plur.), then, be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves."

BLATZ
(39) Jesus said: The Pharisees and the scribes have taken the keys of knowledge (and) have hidden them. They did not go in, and those who wished to go in they did not allow. But you, be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.

[edit on 8/12/04 by dnero6911]

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween

Originally posted by Dasher
-thursday night - last supper, betrayal, trials, denial by peter
-friday day - cock crows, trial, conviction, punishment, death, embalmment, burial
-friday night - buried
-saturday day - buried
-saturday night - buried
-sunday day - risen

Very good, as you can see from your own synopsis, the last supper has nothing to do with his time on the cross or the number of days and nights he was dead, which starts on Friday as I have stated. Counting then, he was dead on Friday, and buried during that night. He was still buried on Saturday night, and on Sunday morning he rose. That is; Friday night equals 1, Saturday night equals 2. and Friday as day 1, Saturday as day 2, and the Sunday the day he rose as day 3, to be generous even though he was alive during the day on Friday. Two nights dead which is one night shy of his prophecy.

Care to tell me why you have wasted my time arguing against my initial statement which you now accept?

SomewhereinBetween- For those who know their scriptures, Jesus was crucified on a Friday, and rose on the day after the Sabbath which makes that a Sunday, some time around dawn, that makes his rise on the third day as follows: Friday the day of his death as day one, Saturday day two, Sunday day three.

[edit on 12/8/04 by SomewhereinBetween]

firstly, if you do not cease your cynicism, i will not continue to reply. you ignore the precepts of my arguement and turn around and use your ignorance to put me down. i repeat, stop.

Originally posted by Dasher
by the way, if you need matt 12:40 broken down, email me and i'll post it.

as i said already, the whole process of Jesus' death did in fact last through three nights and days. but then the obvious thought might be that he wasn't in the "heart of the earth." so then, i shall break down the passage as i said i would, if asked, in order to establish that the intention was never to limit any of this process to "three days and nights" and that "heart of the earth" does not indicate a literal covering of dirt.

Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

For as - the word here is the same word used in this verse (hosper):

Luk 17:24 FOR AS (hosper) the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one [part] under heaven, shineth unto the other [part] under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.

as far as i know, Jesus didn't flash across the sky at lightspeed and the air around him did not superheat faster than the speed of sound creating thunder. the point being, the likeness of jonah's story is that there was a process of being purged by his "setting apart" by God into the belly, and next demanded the repentance of the people. a likeness "in general."

there is another word that is translated "for as," but this word seems to indicate "more" of a direct comparison, but still not necessarily a perfect one. for example (hos):

Mat 12:13 Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched [it] forth; and it was restored whole, LIKE AS (hos) the other.

here we see a comparison being made, and the story is balanced on the hand being made whole, "like the other," and in this case possibly an exact likeness.

back to the less direct comparison (hosper):
Rom 5:19 FOR AS (hosper) by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

these are two like things, but we can obviously understand that the likeness is in a slightly more general manor than if hos was used since the comparison is of two opposing ideas still being similar. hos is used to describe things that are not necessarily, but possibly exactly equal. again, it seems to indicate simply an even more emphasized comparison.

digressing back to jonas . . . do we find that the exact length of this situation to be very pertinent? not very, as with many things in the bible, there is not much intention to be a play by play, but rather a spiritual word. following with the same reasoning as the "eleven or twelve" issue, and "who got there first?," we can conclude that the intention of using three nights and three days is to bring to rememberance the concepts of jonah's situation rather than to exactly match up the durations. read chapter 2 and you will find many spiritual "forward-looking" concepts.


Jon 2:1 Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly,
Jon 2:2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, [and] thou heardest my voice.
Jon 2:3 For thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed me about: all thy billows and thy waves passed over me.
Jon 2:4 Then I said, I am cast out of thy sight; yet I will look again toward thy holy temple.
Jon 2:5 The waters compassed me about, [even] to the soul: the depth closed me round about, the weeds were wrapped about my head.
Jon 2:6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars [was] about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.
Jon 2:7 When my soul fainted within me I remembered the LORD: and my prayer came in unto thee, into thine holy temple.
Jon 2:8 They that observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy.
Jon 2:9 But I will sacrifice unto thee with the voice of thanksgiving; I will pay [that] that I have vowed. Salvation [is] of the LORD.

the number three definitely has meaning and is therefore listed in regards to timeline, but i don't believe that God had the great fish on a 72 hour timer. continuing this idea and bringing in the "likeness," we can see that the comparison is for purposes of conveying the subject and implicating spiritual truths. further, comparison/titling can be based on one thing and related to something else that may or may not be the whole of the other. this is called a synecdoche.

synecdoche - A figure of speech in which a part is used for the whole (as hand for sailor), the whole for a part (as the law for police officer), the specific for the general (as cutthroat for assassin), the general for the specific (as thief for pickpocket), or the material for the thing made from it (as steel for sword). *from dictionary.com

HEART OF THE EARTH
heart - kardia - literally the heart, but when used in a spiritual manor indicates "the seat of spiritual life."
earth - ge - literally, the earth, but when used in a spiritual manor indicates "earthly as opposed to heavenly."

when a dead spirit enters eternity, it is cast out and the wrath of God destroys it. "in like manor," the gift of Christ was that He took the spiritual wrath intended for His elect and shouldered it Himself. His death was a process of being like condemned man in order to bear sin's weight so that those who are His wouldn't have to. although this process did take place in general over 3 days, is it truly important that it lives up to a stopwatch? if so, then the bible ceases to be a spiritual book and becomes a very confusing history book.

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
Now that you are back on track, it is obvious that your post was made in haste as my statement:

Matthew 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale�s belly; so shall the son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. It falls shy one whole night and one whole day.

still stands.

There was no point therefore to this post of yours.

FOR THOSE WHO KNOW THEIR SCRIPTURES . . . the process of Jesus' death which was likened to jonas' whale of a time, began at night. to our culture, this was friday morning. by hebrew culture, this was technically thursday night still. this would be night one. friday was day one and night two. saturday was day two, night three. sunday was day three. final day and life for those who are His.

Furthermore, to Jewish culture the process of his death did not begin until Friday when he was placed on the cross. And that day is the sabbath, as I have so diligently relayed, not Thursday, not even by western standards, since the Bible has no clue what a western standard is.

ps. know the scriptures before you post such outrageous claims

That line of yours, practice it, this has been a lesson well learnt for you.
[edit on 12/8/04 by SomewhereinBetween]

i may be a young kid from california, but i know enough to refute claims such as yours. i see no shame in not speaking when i have no understanding about something, but this is not one of those times.

daved

Originally posted by Frosty
The Vatican archive. It is on very rare circumstances that someone is allowed into the Vatican archive, why? Because they don't want anyone to uncover what the Vatican doesn't want you to know. Proof, that Christianity is a hoax exist in their own archive.

We can only wonder what was lost in the destruction of The Great Library of Alexandria
and the destruction of pagan archives.

Three legendary accounts:

It is often said that the Romans were civilised but their most famous general was responsible for the greatest act of vandalism during antiquity. Julius Caesar was attacking Alexandria in pursuit of his archrival Pompey when he found himself about to be cut off by the Egyptian fleet. Realising that this would leave him in a desperate predicament, he took decisive action and sent fire ships into the harbour. His plan was a success and the enemy fleet was quickly aflame. But the fire did not stop these and jumped onto the dockside which was laden with flammable materials ready for export. Next it spread in land and before anyone could stop it, the Great Library itself was blazing brightly as 400,000 priceless scrolls were reduced to ashes. As for Caesar himself, did not think it important enough to mention in his memoirs.


Theophilus, Patriarch of Alexandria, is also the patron saint of arsonists. As Christianity slowly strangled the life out of classical culture in the forth century it became more and more difficult to be a pagan. There stood in Alexandria the great temple of Serapis called the Serapeum and attached to it was the Great Library of Alexandria where all the wisdom of the ancients was preserved. Now Theophilus knew that as long as this knowledge existed people would be less inclined to believe the bible so he set about destroying the pagan temples. But the Serapeum was a huge structure, high on a mound and beyond the abilities of the raging Christian fanatics to assault. Faced with this edifice, the Patriarch sent word to Rome. There the Emperor Theodosius the Great, who had ordered that paganism be annihilated, gave his permission for the destruction of the Serapeum. Realising they had no chance, the priests and priestesses fled their temple and the mob moved in. The vast structure was razed to it foundations and the scrolls from the library were burnt in huge pyres in the streets of Alexandria.


The Moslems invaded Egypt during the seventh century as their fanaticism carried them on conquests that would take form an empire stretching from Spain to India. There was not much of a struggle in Egypt and the locals found the rule of the Caliph to be more tolerant than that of the Byzantines before them. However, when a Christian called John informed the local Arab general that there existed in Alexandria a great Library preserving all the knowledge in the world he was perturbed. Eventually he sent word to Damascus where Caliph Omar ordered that all the books in the library should be destroyed because, as he said "they will either contradict the Koran, in which case they are heresy, or they will agree with it, so they are superfluous." Therefore, the books and scrolls were taken out of the library and distributed as fuel to the many bathhouses of the city. So enormous was the volume of literature that it took six months for it all to be burnt to ashes heating the saunas of the conquerors.

Originally posted by Dasher

My dear fellow poster, if your puritan sensibilities have been insulted, then might I suggest in order to avoid same in the future you do not bring it upon yourself by displaying your own ignorance:

ps. know the scriptures before you post such outrageous claims.

And by all means feel free to stop replying, I did not invite you to in the first place.

And yes I know that you said it consumed three nights. You were wrong then, you are wrong now. By your own post, the man was dead for only two nights. But then again perhaps you are claiming that while he was alive and kicking and having his last meal with his disciples, he had descended into the heart of the earth. You stand alone with farcical interpretation.

You�ve strayed all over the place in an effort to make your case and lost yourself even more. So let me assist you a bit with understanding what is meant by the term �heart of the earth� and when it happened.

The frequent New Testament affirmations that Jesus was "raised from the dead" presuppose that the crucified one sojourned in the realm of the dead prior to his resurrection.477 This was the first meaning given in the apostolic preaching to Christ's descent into hell: Jesus, like all men, experienced death and in his soul joined the others in the realm of the dead. he descended there as Savior, proclaiming the Good News to the spirits imprisoned there.

The descent into hell brings the Gospel message of salvation to complete fulfilment.
www.vatican.va...

After His death, the soul of Jesus, still united to the divinity, descended into the realm of the dead, which the Creed calls "hell", in the old English usage. It does not mean at all the hell of the damned. He visited what is called the Limbo of the Fathers.
www.ewtn.com...

Christ's descent into hell is described in 1 Peter 3:18-20. While this passage does not provide a great deal of detailed information about this event, it is clear that after Christ died he was "made alive in the spirit" and that in this state of exaltation he descended into hell--not to suffer, but to proclaim his victory over hell and the devil
www.lcms.org...

Lest you go off track again, note what is highlighted and underlined. He died, he descended. Where he descended to I really don�t care. So let�s review then when he died, and I�ll even use your own post:

friday day - crows, trial, conviction, punishment, death, embalmment, burial
-friday night � buried (This is night number 1)
-saturday day - buried
-saturday night � buried (This is night number 2)
-sunday day � risen

Friday, and since he died on Friday, he descended on Friday night, stayed descended on Saturday night, and was visiting his pals on Sunday morning. Two nights.

Case closed!

i still can't figure out how you are not following what i am saying. this subject has come to a head and yet remains ignored. let someone else rankle with you.

ciao.
daved

It's Sunday for crying out loud!

Because we get the day off !!!

For crying out loud that is why Sunday called the day of the SUN. It is because the SUN was (not Jesus!) resurrected on Sunday after being "dead" for 3 days. The Sun since the first day of summer has each day been moving southward and stops when it reaches its lowest point in the Northern Hemispheric sky (December 22nd is winter solstice). At this lowest point the Sun stops its journey southward (the SUN is DEAD!!!). For three days, December 22nd, 23rd , and 24th, the Sun rises on the exact same latitudinal (declination) degree for this 3 days.