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"Can God create a rock..."

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posted on Aug, 11 2014 @ 07:16 PM
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a reply to: Diderot

Yes God can, but then he can make himself strong enough to lift that same rock.
2end




posted on Aug, 11 2014 @ 07:19 PM
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a reply to: TzarChasm

The unstoppable becomes immovable and the immovable object becomes the unstoppable.
2nd



posted on Aug, 11 2014 @ 07:26 PM
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a reply to: rigel4

"The paradox has a quantum explanation.. God can make the rock infinitely heavy and infinitely
light both at the same time.... "

And this is offered as a solution to the paradox?

Question: How does God perceive the pitiful, ignorant, and foolish musings of Humankind?

p.s to rigel4, I am no less a stuttering fool than my ramblings might suggest of yourself.

You are no less brilliant than a star in the sky.



posted on Aug, 11 2014 @ 07:32 PM
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a reply to: GunzCoty

"Yes God can, but then he can make himself strong enough to lift that same rock."

Dear Gunz, Do you believe that you have answered the paradox?

If he is able to lift the rock, then he has failed to create a rock that is so heavy that he cannot lift it.

He has failed. His is not infallible.

Please try again.



posted on Aug, 11 2014 @ 07:37 PM
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originally posted by: Diderot
Dear Gunz, Do you believe that you have answered the paradox?

If he is able to lift the rock, then he has failed to create a rock that is so heavy that he cannot lift it.

He has failed. His is not infallible.

Please try again.



I agree completely with Gunz.

Why should God be limited by paradox? Paradox just means that logic can't handle something in an intuitive way. Logic is a man-made tool. So you are basically arguing that God is bound by a man-made tool.

So God can create a rock too heavy for him to lift. And then he can lift it too! Both at the same time. Why not? God doesn't have to make logical sense, unless logic is God. And if logic as humans understand it is God, then logic can only do logical things, of course.


Along these lines, you should look up Godel's famous theorem. He produces a theorem using all the correct rules of mathematics and logic that essentially states "this theorem is not a theorem." So according to logic, is it a theorem or isn't it? It's a theorem by all the rules about what makes up a theorem, but the logical statement that the theorem makes, is that it isn't really a theorem. So what gives? It's a real theorem though. If you look up the mathematician Godel, it's his most famous work. He published papers on it in the 1930's.

PS -- That means that even calculus can create paradoxes, even when following its own rules. If calculus can do something then why not God?
edit on 11-8-2014 by BridgebyaFountain because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 11 2014 @ 07:57 PM
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a reply to: BridgebyaFountain

The whole point of this thread is not about the infallibility of God. My point is to show the primitive understanding of the Human mind. I and you are stumbling in the dark, or perhaps our understanding is distorted by the shadows in Plato's cave.
We can only know God by the feeble perceptions of our frail senses. The God of perfection is unknowable, unfathomable, and inscrutable.

If God exists, then we should be ashamed and embarrassed.
We are not yet worthy of fellowship with this Light of perfection.

Our salvation lies on the path of Progress.


edit on 11-8-2014 by Diderot because: A capital offense



posted on Aug, 11 2014 @ 08:25 PM
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Civilization will not attain to its perfection until the last brick from the last church falls on the last priest

-Emile Zola.

God. Defined, described, empowered and marketed by the human imagination since (some number)B.C. until now.



posted on Aug, 11 2014 @ 08:51 PM
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originally posted by: Diderot
The whole point of this thread is not about the infallibility of God. My point is to show the primitive understanding of the Human mind. I and you are stumbling in the dark, or perhaps our understanding is distorted by the shadows in Plato's cave.


I don't disagree with that. That's why I say we can't put logical restraints on God. I think of "God" as something transcendent that we can't comprehend. Since we can't comprehend it, we can't put limits on it either, including restricting it to only being able to accomplish things that are logical to us. So to me God can do paradoxical things. All that really means, is that God is capable of things that we don't understand.



posted on Aug, 11 2014 @ 09:10 PM
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originally posted by: Diderot
Wow, I bet you never heard this one before, right? Of course you have: “If God is omnipotent, then can he create a rock that is so heavy that he can't lift it?” Now I am not seeking answers to this conundrum; I simply want to talk about the question itself. This classical paradox is a great example of the formidable shortcomings of human analytical thought. This stumbling block reveals our still primative nature. I fancy that many advanced Alien cultures would be amused by our naivete.
A simple, clear fact, is that we are still stumbling in the dark. Our hubris has advanced as far as our intellect has over the ages, and we seem to think that we are just outside the gates of omniscience. But let me tell you: We are still firmly planted in the realm of the
primal, savage, “lesser” animals from wence we came.
This leads me back to the dilemma of the heavy rock. In the context of the spiritual vs. the secular world, we would be wise to acknowledge that ignorance is simply a blank slate. The truth that awaits us is far, far greater than the truth that we now perceive.


Well. That was a yet another instance of watching someone intellectually masturbate. 14 seconds of my life I'll never get back. My brain needs a bath.

Yes, we are nasty, brutish animals. Yes, we are expansive, loving spiritual beings. Yes, it is messy and contradictory and yes, true comprehension eludes us in these biological, chemically drenched meat sacks we inhabit. Such is the human condition.



posted on Aug, 12 2014 @ 12:00 PM
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originally posted by: Diderot
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

"You mean, like a Giraffe? According to the myths Adam and Eve rode a giraffe out of Eden. Almost like when the victorious steel-benders come riding their motorbikes all tattooed and reborn."

Now I understand the metaphor of surreal, desert bound giraffes in Salvador Dali's "The Temptation of St. Anthony".
The only thing missing is Marlon Brando on a Harley.


It has it's own constellation in the sky, with access to-- or sticking it's head way into the Highest Heaven:



I always saw it as the guardian of the Lamb (Ursa Minor) and his father, the Son of Man (Ursa Major), and his Father (unnamed), sitting at the throne sporting some sort of feather boa (oh my) reaching down his Right Arm (Draco). Compare this to the speech and surroundings in the stoning of St. Stephanus. I bet Jesus waited for him with the long lost-but-found camel-leopard at the other side. All armed and crowned.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 06:47 PM
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a reply to: BridgebyaFountain

Dear Bridge Over Troubled Waters,

"That's why I say we can't put logical restraints on God. I think of "God" as something transcendent that we can't comprehend."

I believe that our failure to comprehend demands our search for the solution.

I can imagine no God that would place any truth beyond our reach.

Seek and ye shall find. This must be pleasing to God.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 07:09 PM
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a reply to: Utnapisjtim

"I always saw it as the guardian of the Lamb (Ursa Minor) and his father, the Son of Man (Ursa Major), and his Father (unnamed), sitting at the throne sporting some sort of feather boa (oh my) reaching down his Right Arm (Draco). Compare this to the speech and surroundings in the stoning of St. Stephanus. I bet Jesus waited for him with the long lost-but-found camel-leopard at the other side. All armed and crowned."

I would guess that Jesus gazes down upon the words that you have crafted
with a sly grin and a chuckle.
As do I.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 07:56 PM
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a reply to: randyvs

"But mad? No I'm not mad."

He says while twirling his mustache.

Perhaps I can drag us back to the original point of my thread.

We humans choke when presented with a simple paradox.

God must find us so entertaining!



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 08:04 PM
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a reply to: wdkirk

"Civilization will not attain to its perfection until the last brick from the last church falls on the last priest
-Emile Zola."

Civilization, in pursuit of perfect justice and attainment, can only be pleasing to God.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 08:05 PM
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originally posted by: Diderot
I can imagine no God that would place any truth beyond our reach.


I don't mean "truth," of which there are many. I mean God -- I don't think God is logically comprehensible. That is why you have paradoxes like what Godel's theorem illustrates. As Godel himself pointed out, it's not a problem with calculus, it's a problem with how humans think everything in the universe must conform to our modern ideas of logic.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 08:23 PM
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a reply to: GunzCoty

"The unstoppable becomes immovable and the immovable object becomes the unstoppable."

You seem to be comfortable in dealing with absolutes.

So too am I.

What happens when the immovable conviction of you faith

meets the unstoppable reason of my truth?



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 09:13 PM
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a reply to: Diderot




God must find us so entertaining!


Ya know, I just don't see him as being the only one.
But at least you have the right direction now.

Check out Ferguson!


edit on Rpm81314v16201400000000 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 09:36 PM
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a reply to: randyvs

Dear Randy,

"Ya know, I just don't see him as being the only one."

I take that to mean
that other deities are entertained by us,
or that other lesser beings are entertained.

Also, why would you possibly mention Ferguson?

This is not the randyvs that I know.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 09:44 PM
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a reply to: Unity_99

Dear Unity,

Truth and love are one in the same.

If we seek to know God

then we seek perfection in our nature.

No purpose is of greater value.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 09:57 PM
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a reply to: Diderot

What I meant was I find us humerous, besides pathetic,
ignorant and without guidance. So draw your conclusions
D. The guidance we could surely use from a supeme being
that is.


edit on Rpm81314v59201400000040 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



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